Re: UPS effectiveness (was: Power failure-computer won't start)
On Dec 28, 6:19 am, Bill Christensen billc_li...@greenbuilder.com wrote: ... I never said anything about defective hardware. I said I ran one of the diagnostic/repair tools on it, fix a bunch of stuff. By that I was referring to SOFTWARE diagnostics and SOFTWARE fixes - Disk First Aid, Disk Warrior, Norton, whatever the heck we were using most at the time. Nothing changed in the hardware set up at all. And I don't give a rat's patoot as to why the power company delivered crappy power. I've seen the lights dim or momentarily go out often enough to know that it does. ... You are correct. You did not say anything about defective hardware in a computer that may have symptoms of existing defective hardware. For example, if that computer has a defective power supply ($60 replacement cost), you somehow knew hardware damage was being averted by installing a $500+ UPS. That is what you claimed. You claimed UPSes provide hardware protection because an $1800 UPS masked an already existing defect. That does not prove hardware protection. That demonstrates that throwing $1800 at a $60 problem can mask symptoms. A hardware defect still exists with or without that UPS.Your example also demonstrates why GM is losing so much money by making the same mistakes that even Ross Perot defined 20 years earlier. They too throw massive money to cure symptoms rather than find, then fix, trivial problems. Bottom line - your example does not prove a UPS protects hardware. It only proves symptoms can be cured and that multiple problems may still exist. More facts based only on assumptions. You have assumed the utility is delivering crappy power. More often, those symptoms are traceable to a major safety defect; maybe inside that house. IOW both computers may have been a 'canary in a coalmine'. Instead you would mock investigating before fixing something? Your speculations still do not prove a UPS provides hardware protection. And that is the point. UPSes do not provide hardware protection despite so many assumptions that say otherwise. A new fact. Another computer was doing the same thing, but only in that house. You assumed crappy utility power. The second computer only works in their house? More reasons to ask if a serious human safety threat might exist in their house. A problem easily located with some basic knowledge, inspection, or by hiring an electrician. A problem that still exists even with an $1800 UPS. Get the household electric inspected. The observation - computers only crash in their house - is only sufficient to make an assumption and to later develop a hypothesis. Not sufficient to know anything except that a problem (potentially serous) clearly does still exist. UPS does not provide hardware protection. It simply protects a computer from power off. In this case, a UPS might have been used to ignore a potential human safety problem. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: UPS effectiveness (was: Power failure-computer won't start)
We've always had UPS's, usually APC, and *all* of our computers have worked without any major problems for long periods of time, say 8-10 years. Usually in the $75-150 range. So I'm happy with them. I have had good power, flaky power - but the Macs are happy critters. On Dec 28, 2008, at 6:19 AM, Bill Christensen wrote: Finally I decided that the prime difference was the power. They were unprotected. We've got a big UPS (sine wave output, not square wave). We're all way out at the end of the power system, and the power is definitely prone to spikes and surges. Anne Keller Smith Down to Earth Web Design G4 Quicksilver 733mHz Tower 896 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, OS 10.4.11 Intel iMac 2.4gHz Core 2 Duo 1GB RAM, 250GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.5 mailto:earth...@ptd.net http://www.downtoearthweb.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: UPS effectiveness (was: Power failure-computer won't start)
On Dec 27, 10:55 pm, Bill Christensen billc_li...@greenbuilder.com wrote: Finally I decided that the prime difference was the power. They were unprotected. We've got a big UPS (sine wave output, not square wave). We're all way out at the end of the power system, and the power is definitely prone to spikes and surges. Our UPS beeps and boops frequently telling us of slumps and surges. We put them on a UPS and the problems went away. Same machine, same use patterns. Let's add some facts. First you had no idea why the supply was failing. Using anecdotal evidence, you were speculating. From diagnostic programs, where was a fact that identified what hardware was defective? You fixed what? And then it still failed? You did not even know what hardware was defective and when. So how do you know the UPS terminated hardware damage? You don't. You only speculated. Second, anything that a $500 UPS (to create sine waves) would solve is supposed to be inside a $60 power supply. So you spent $500 on a UPS to fix a defective power supply? That is proof? Of what? You somehow _know_ 'dirty' power can corrupt any computer? And that corruption means hardware was damaged? Above are numerous assumptions based only on observation and on few facts. When was observation alone sufficient to know something? Any fact from only observation is classic junk science. What was taught in junior high science? First, the problem must be defined by a hypothesis based in well understood principles. Second, hypothesis must be confirmed with experimental evidence. Without both, only speculation exists. You have posted speculation. Then you converted that speculation into a conclusion. IOW junk science. More likely, you spent $500 to cure symptoms. A power supply was defective even when used in your home. If using basic principles taught in junior high school, then all that trouble and a $500 UPS would have been unnecessary. Plug-in UPSes have their purpose as I stated. I then stated what those purposes are. But to fix a $60 defective computer power supply with a $500 UPS - that is not worthwhile. That $500 UPS only suggests where to look for the defect in a computer's power supply 'system'. Anne Keller-Smith recommends using a UPS to protect hardware. Even a $500 UPS does not claim protection from typical hardware destructive events. Even your example was not a hardware destructive event. Her recommendation was not a $500 UPS. A computer grade UPS is typically under $100. That UPS connects a computer directly to AC mains as if the UPS did not exist. And then you complicate the issue by discussing a $500 UPS? So many defects and assumptions exist in your reasoning. So again, why would you buy a $500 UPS to fix a defective $60 power supply - then assume that solved a hardware failure? A UPS is to protect data from power loss. Even 'dirtiest' electricity created by the typical computer grade UPS is made irrelevant by the computer's power supply. Nothing posted implies a $500 UPS protected hardware. It only implies a $500 UPS was purchased to fix a defective $60 power supply. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
