Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture. On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Dan Palka turboda...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 23, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I like my G5 tower more than my computer lab's Mac Minis. That exact G5 is far slower than even the base-model Mac Mini of today in Geekbench scores, and you're not even considering that only with Snow Leopard has 64-bit software been brought to the end-user in a very big way, which will never happen on a G5. Ever. So, all of the G5-optimized 64-bit code was never used? I sure do use it. Only if you're specifically running multi-core, memory-intensive old PowerPC-native versions of apps would you see a G5 win in performance standpoint. And if I'm not running multi-core, memory-intensive apps, what am I doing? Well, browsing the web and listening to music, and other simple tasks, for which both are adequate. It should generally be much faster to run CS5 on a Mac Mini than CS4 on your G5 for example. Except for the fact that CS5 does not support most of the plugins that I and many others use and that there are simply no equivalent ones avail. Ditto for just about anything else. And this is the Mac Mini we're talking about -- we're not even in the same ballpark if we start talking about iMacs or Mac Pros. I don't know what exactly you mean by more standards. At the very best, the G5 uses cutting-edge standards of 2004 or 2005. Mac Minis are perfectly standards-compliant today. Right now. Well, I'd like to see what kinds of standards-compliant disk drives and CPU sockets are in the Mac Minis. I am talking about the other machines because they are the ONLY Intel machines that can equal the memory and storage capacities of the G5. I am looking into upgrading (for less than $200) to dual 2TB disk drives for my G5. What kind of Mac Mini can fit 4TB of hard disks? Yes, I (and many others) would USE all 4,GB of that space, more than EIGHT TIMES the storage capacity of the Mac Mini -- the topend model. The fact of the matter is Apple and the industry rejected PowerPC years ago. It's not going to be much longer before you won't even be able to use current versions of basic necessities like Safari on your G5. Are you still going to cling to PowerPC then? Yes, many makers rejected such architectures as SPARC. However, using SPARC as an example, if I may, I can run all sorts of open-source applications in SPARC boxes, including CURRENT versions of Firefox, Konqueror, KDE, and many other apps. And all this for an archetecture older and less proliferated than PowerPC. I can't see it going away anytime soon. We are here to help each other out, as owners of PowerPC systems that continue to use them for whatever purposes that we do. I have G4s and even 603s running in my house still currently. However, we should not kid ourselves, or others who seek our advice, by seriously recommending new purchases of PowerPC equipment for any reason other than a hobbyist pursuit, as if to ignore the state of the Macintosh platform and the assured EOL that approaches these systems faster every day. And the assured EOL that approaches every new Intel Mac, as well as EVERY COMPUTER EVER MADE! I can't use an IBM PC for the same work as my Core 2 Quad tower, even though they are both Intel-powered machines. Just saying it won't be supported someday could be an argument for the aforementioned every computer ever made. PowerPC. PageMill. AppleWorks. Mac OS Classic. We've pushed these technologies farther than their own engineers ever imagined they could possibly go. The end really is near. Some of us old timers who so vigorously advocated and evangelized the way have long ago come to terms with and accepted the inevitable. I'm disappointed that so many still seem unable or unwilling to leave the past behind. I am not unwilling to leave the point behind. In fact, if all of you must know, I am not as old as most of you would think. Here's a hint: I was born after the Mac II was released. Five years after it was released. The first computer I every bought with my own money was a G3 BW used. We are not all old cooks who don't want to buy a new computer. I just recently bought a PC tower, but still use my Mac, and actually like it more. It really is better on the Intel side of the fence. Some day soon you will see that. No response. /rant -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4,
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: So, all of the G5-optimized 64-bit code was never used? I sure do use it. There's exponentially more on Intels running Snow Leopard, and more every day. On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: And if I'm not running multi-core, memory-intensive apps, what am I doing? I honestly can't tell. If your professional life revolves around using CS5 or FCS for hours and hours, and this is your daily grind, then why on earth have you not invested in yourself or your company invested in its time by replacing ~5 year old computers based on a long-dead architecture with faster, more productive ones that can run software of today and tomorrow. Time is money. Well, browsing the web and listening to music, and other simple tasks, for which both are adequate. Barely adequate, and very soon won't even be that. I've often choked up G4s and G5s with just a few simple things going on. On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: Except for the fact that CS5 does not support most of the plugins that I and many others use and that there are simply no equivalent ones avail. I work with tons of graphic designers and I don't know a single one that isn't either already on CS5 or is drooling to upgrade as soon as they can. I know zero that are still on PowerPC systems. I even know plenty of people that have already replaced their early Intels with newer Intels. On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: Well, I'd like to see what kinds of standards-compliant disk drives and CPU sockets are in the Mac Minis. Well, not to defend the Mac Mini as a bastion of upgradability, but there isn't any sort of proprietary Apple hard disk in there. And there definitely isn't an industry standard CPU socket in any G5. I am talking about the other machines because they are the ONLY Intel machines that can equal the memory and storage capacities of the G5. I am looking into upgrading (for less than $200) to dual 2TB disk drives for my G5. What kind of Mac Mini can fit 4TB of hard disks? Yes, I (and many others) would USE all 4,GB of that space, more than EIGHT TIMES the storage capacity of the Mac Mini -- the topend model. If your workload is so intense that you're using 4TB of space then surely you or your company can afford Mac Pros. And if TB of data are being eaten up by you regularly, then you really aught to be looking into a variety of external RAID or SAN solutions at this level. That is of course if your TBs are being used for non-nefarious, professional purposes, which you seem to be suggesting. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 24, 1:14 am, Illirik Smirnov illir...@gmail.com wrote: We are not all old cooks who don't want to buy a new computer. I just recently bought a PC tower, but still use my Mac, and actually like it more. We're Kooks. We may also be cooks, but us old farts who prefer out of date computers are kooks. Also: Hey you kids! Get off my lawn! Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? One person recommended getting instead a G5 tower and installing 2 HD's, one with tiger. Perhaps that is the only good solution, but I had hoped to go with a Mini for their noise and wattage reduction. thanks for any comments, Del Save Tiger for the fearless Sawtooth. Close your eyes and jump all the way to Snow Leopard. You'll never regret it. Tiger is still a superb OS, but Snow Leopard is not only superior, it's breathtakingly beautiful. As an added advantage, if you know your way around in Tiger, you won't feel disoriented in SL --just amazed. Best of luck, Felix I am thinking to move on from my fearless old sawtooth to a mini, but I'm not ready for the jump to 10.5.. Del -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 6:53 AM, MnDel wrote: I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? I enjoy Classic as much as anybody, but honestly, it really is time to move on. Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac is an amazing, highly-refined, ultra-powerful combination. I wouldn't downgrade for anything. If I'm not mistaken, Pagemill documents should just be HTML files, no? There are a large number of very nice WYSIWYG web editors out there, even besides Dreamweaver if that doesn't suit your taste (it suits mine). You can give Freeway a try, for example. http://www.softpress.com/ As for AppleWorks, I recall opening AppleWorks documents in iWork (http://www.apple.com/iwork/) years ago when I made the switch. iWork is seriously 500% better in every way. All it lacks is databases, and for that you have the elegant Apple-designed Bento (http://www.filemaker.com/products/bento/) at your disposal. I cannot emphasize how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard, and the modern world of Mac applications. Pagemill and AppleWorks were great in the 1990s, but the Mac OS X has advanced so far and to make the best of it you need apps designed to run properly on them, something neither Pagemill nor AppleWorks were ever intended to do. Regards, Dan Palka Info-Mac Moderator http://www.info-mac.org d...@info-mac.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 6:53 AM, MnDel wrote: I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? One person recommended getting instead a G5 tower and installing 2 HD's, one with tiger. Perhaps that is the only good solution, but I had hoped to go with a Mini for their noise and wattage reduction. thanks for any comments, Del There seems to be some info missing here. Number 1: There is an OSX native version of AppleWorks. It's AppleWorks 6 and it works just fine with Snow Leopard even though it's a PPC application. I've got it on this computer to open ancient files I've got and it works a treat with Snow Leopard. Number 2: PageMill files will open with Adobe GoLive. It's an obsolete program now, but GoLive 9 was released with the Adobe CreativeSuite 3 and was intended to be the final version of GoLive, so it's got some tools and utilities in it to help you make the move to DreamWeaver when you decide to go that way. I personally HATE DreamWeaver with a passion.it takes a simple WYSIWYG program and makes it horrible and complicated for the simplest tasks. That said, GoLive is the direct successor to PageMill. When we migrated to OSX about 8 years ago, we were still using PageMill 3.0 for our company website. We bought GoLive and it opened the PageMill files natively. If those are the only two things holding you back, get on the LEM Swaplist and see if anyone's got copies you can have of the above mentioned programs. Upgrading to Snow Leopard on an Intel Mini is a MASSIVE leap forward. Not only is it a lot more stable and polished, but it's MUCH faster than Tiger on the Intels. Join us in the 21st century and make your life a little easier! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 6:53 am, MnDel dsmn...@gmail.com wrote: I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed.http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? No, you just need to find install disks for a 2007 Mac Mini. Or buy a used Mini of the proper vintage which includes the original disks. Such things do appear on Ebay, and posts to the LEM Swaplist can be productive too. I agree with the others, that if you can make it work, go with the latest and greatest. The newer Minis have dual monitor support which is really nice (unless you don't use dual monitors). On the other hand, when Apple added dual monitor support in 2009, they took away the CPU socket. The earlier models have the interesting ability to swap their CPUs just by buying the appropriate Intel processor and dropping it in the socket. Neither of those feature may matter to you, but it's a trade off between the 2007 and earlier (single monitor, socketed CPU) and the 2009 and later (dual monitor, soldered CPU) Minis. I have an Intel Tiger install disk I'd happily part with, but I have no idea if it will install on a Mini. I bought the little white accessory box that included a remote control and it came with the install media as well, but I think it's from an Intel iMac, not a Mini. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 4:53 AM, MnDel wrote: I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed. Appleworks works in 10.5 or 10.6, PPC or Intel, as appropriate. It is a Carbon app so it runs as an OS X app unless you force it to run under Classic in Tiger. I don't know about Pagemill. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? One person recommended getting instead a G5 tower and installing 2 HD's, one with tiger. Perhaps that is the only good solution, but I had hoped to go with a Mini for their noise and wattage reduction. thanks for any comments, Del Well, you could partition the drive and put Leopard on one partition and Tiger on the other. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 4:53 AM, MnDel wrote: I'd love jumping to 10.5 or 10.6 - but I have enough docs in Pagemill and Appleworks that the jump looks like a bloomin big mountain to climb. Reading this guide to using OS9 apps on Intel macs puts me right off my feed. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879 So if it really is just unworkable am I stuck with only going to a G4 mini? One person recommended getting instead a G5 tower and installing 2 HD's, one with tiger. Perhaps that is the only good solution, but I had hoped to go with a Mini for their noise and wattage reduction. thanks for any comments, Del AppleWorks 6 installs and runs on Leopard 10.5 and 10.6 Snow Leopard. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Dan Palka wrote: it really is time to move on. Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac is an amazing, highly-refined, ultra-powerful combination. I wouldn't downgrade for anything. Great, I think we all know this already, but most either already own PPC Macs or can't afford a new Intel Mac. The name of this list is G3-5 list, it's specifically for PPC Macs. Perhaps you should be moving on to one of the Intel lists? I cannot emphasize how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard, and the modern world of Mac applications. I agree with your premise that OS X applications can normally replace Classic applications, and that using MacOS is probably not the best idea these days. However, I disagree with the idea that Snow Leopard offers any substantial improvements over Leopard, after all, the ONLY thing Snow Leopard is doing is converting Leopard from 32-bit Universal Intel/PPC code over to 64-bit Intel-only code. The idea of paying Apple $29 to clean-up and purge their deadwood code seems a little far fetched to me. Leopard 10.5.8 works perfectly for almost all applications, Intel or PPC. Snow Leopard offers few improvements, and many minor growing headaches. As I said above, if you believe how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard then you should also jump into one of the Intel lists, and leave G3-5 list to us who still find value in G3-5 PPC Macs. On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Eric Herbert wrote: Upgrading to Snow Leopard on an Intel Mini is a MASSIVE leap forward. Not only is it a lot more stable and polished, but it's MUCH faster than Tiger on the Intels. Join us in the 21st century and make your life a little easier! Comparing Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac to Tiger on a PPC Mac isn't a fair comparison. The cost factor is just as MASSIVE as the performance increase, perhaps larger? The sweet spot of price/performance ratio is still within the PPC Mac range unless you're using a hackintosh. To reiterate, this list is for G3-5 PPC Macs. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: However, I disagree with the idea that Snow Leopard offers any substantial improvements over Leopard, after all, the ONLY thing Snow Leopard is doing is converting Leopard from 32-bit Universal Intel/PPC code over to 64-bit Intel-only code. At the risk of continuing an OT thread...WTF??? All-64--bitness is a biggie but there are a myriad little improvements. Just off the top of my head, appropriate Services that once resided solely in the Services menu under the Apple are now available in the contextual menu. That was a biggie for me...it actually makes the services menu useful. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Dan Palka wrote: it really is time to move on. Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac is an amazing, highly-refined, ultra-powerful combination. I wouldn't downgrade for anything. Great, I think we all know this already, but most either already own PPC Macs or can't afford a new Intel Mac. The name of this list is G3-5 list, it's specifically for PPC Macs. Perhaps you should be moving on to one of the Intel lists? Or I can stay here and give the best and most appropriate advice where necessary. G-Macs are great fun and all, and I probably own more of them than most people on this list, but when someone says they are refusing for whatever reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard and/or Intel Macs, there is clearly some misconception going there that needs to be cleared up. Early 2006 Intel Mac prices are free-falling. Someone here is talking about buying G5s and all kinds of nonsense just for the sake of Classic. I say don't waste your money. I cannot emphasize how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard, and the modern world of Mac applications. I agree with your premise that OS X applications can normally replace Classic applications, and that using MacOS is probably not the best idea these days. However, I disagree with the idea that Snow Leopard offers any substantial improvements over Leopard, after all, the ONLY thing Snow Leopard is doing is converting Leopard from 32-bit Universal Intel/PPC code over to 64-bit Intel-only code. The idea of paying Apple $29 to clean-up and purge their deadwood code seems a little far fetched to me. Leopard 10.5.8 works perfectly for almost all applications, Intel or PPC. Snow Leopard offers few improvements, and many minor growing headaches. OK, fine. Time to upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Leopard if you need to nit-pick about your pennies that much. There is no reason for anyone to purposely refuse to upgrade to (Snow) Leopard which is what sounds like the OP was doing. As I said above, if you believe how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard then you should also jump into one of the Intel lists, and leave G3-5 list to us who still find value in G3-5 PPC Macs. On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Eric Herbert wrote: Upgrading to Snow Leopard on an Intel Mini is a MASSIVE leap forward. Not only is it a lot more stable and polished, but it's MUCH faster than Tiger on the Intels. Join us in the 21st century and make your life a little easier! Comparing Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac to Tiger on a PPC Mac isn't a fair comparison. The cost factor is just as MASSIVE as the performance increase, perhaps larger? The sweet spot of price/performance ratio is still within the PPC Mac range unless you're using a hackintosh. To reiterate, this list is for G3-5 PPC Macs. It most certainly is not. As I pointed out, early Intels are reaching new lows every month. You can spend $500 - $700 on a G5 that's been officially obsoleted by Apple for a year now, or you can spend the same money and get a decent Mac Mini that will run all the current software and be useful longer. It doesn't matter what list your on. The best advice applies everywhere. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
I like my G5 tower more than my computer lab's Mac Minis. It is faster, has more RAM and hard disk space, runs PPC apps natively, resulting in huge speed boosts, is more servicable, can use VGA and ADC monitors natively with the right video card(s), more reliable, uses slightly more standard and less expensive parts, runs cooler, and is more expandable than a brand new Mac Mini. Care to look at a direct comparison? Quad PMac G5 2500MHz Quad G5 with 4 additional AltiVec processors Most will have 4-8GB of RAM (mine has 8), and 8 1GB DDR memory sticks off of LEM swap list should be under $100 even if its not included Most have at least 500GB of HDD space (mine has 2x500GB), and 2TB drives cost $100 even if its not included $600ish (Mine was $300 INCLUDING monitor) VS Dual Core Intel Mac Mini 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo (slower) 2GB of RAM (less) 320GB HDD (less) $699 OK, so no one really gets the base model. Let's configure one to have the specs of a G5 Quad (or as close as we can get). Dual Core Intel Mac Mini (high end) 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo (still slower) 8GB of RAM 500GB HDD $1449 Oh, well if you want that much computer, just get a Mac Pro. Base model Mac Pro 2.8GHz glorified Core i7 (only 25-30% faster than the G5's CPU) 3GB of RAM (STILL LESS!) 1TB HDD $2499 With 8GB of RAM it's $2874. Hmm... Which seems like a better deal to me? Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture. On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Dan Palka turboda...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Dan Palka wrote: it really is time to move on. Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac is an amazing, highly-refined, ultra-powerful combination. I wouldn't downgrade for anything. Great, I think we all know this already, but most either already own PPC Macs or can't afford a new Intel Mac. The name of this list is G3-5 list, it's specifically for PPC Macs. Perhaps you should be moving on to one of the Intel lists? Or I can stay here and give the best and most appropriate advice where necessary. G-Macs are great fun and all, and I probably own more of them than most people on this list, but when someone says they are refusing for whatever reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard and/or Intel Macs, there is clearly some misconception going there that needs to be cleared up. Early 2006 Intel Mac prices are free-falling. Someone here is talking about buying G5s and all kinds of nonsense just for the sake of Classic. I say don't waste your money. I cannot emphasize how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard, and the modern world of Mac applications. I agree with your premise that OS X applications can normally replace Classic applications, and that using MacOS is probably not the best idea these days. However, I disagree with the idea that Snow Leopard offers any substantial improvements over Leopard, after all, the ONLY thing Snow Leopard is doing is converting Leopard from 32-bit Universal Intel/PPC code over to 64-bit Intel-only code. The idea of paying Apple $29 to clean-up and purge their deadwood code seems a little far fetched to me. Leopard 10.5.8 works perfectly for almost all applications, Intel or PPC. Snow Leopard offers few improvements, and many minor growing headaches. OK, fine. Time to upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Leopard if you need to nit-pick about your pennies that much. There is no reason for anyone to purposely refuse to upgrade to (Snow) Leopard which is what sounds like the OP was doing. As I said above, if you believe how urgent and beneficial it is for you to jump into Intel and Snow Leopard then you should also jump into one of the Intel lists, and leave G3-5 list to us who still find value in G3-5 PPC Macs. On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Eric Herbert wrote: Upgrading to Snow Leopard on an Intel Mini is a MASSIVE leap forward. Not only is it a lot more stable and polished, but it's MUCH faster than Tiger on the Intels. Join us in the 21st century and make your life a little easier! Comparing Snow Leopard on an Intel Mac to Tiger on a PPC Mac isn't a fair comparison. The cost factor is just as MASSIVE as the performance increase, perhaps larger? The sweet spot of price/performance ratio is still within the PPC Mac range unless you're using a hackintosh. To reiterate, this list is for G3-5 PPC Macs. It most certainly is not. As I pointed out, early Intels are reaching new lows every month. You can spend $500 - $700 on a G5 that's been officially obsoleted by Apple for a year now, or you can spend the same money and get a decent Mac Mini that will run all the current software and be useful longer. It doesn't matter what list your on. The best advice applies everywhere. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 23, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I like my G5 tower more than my computer lab's Mac Minis. That exact G5 is far slower than even the base-model Mac Mini of today in Geekbench scores, and you're not even considering that only with Snow Leopard has 64-bit software been brought to the end-user in a very big way, which will never happen on a G5. Ever. Only if you're specifically running multi-core, memory-intensive old PowerPC-native versions of apps would you see a G5 win in performance standpoint. It should generally be much faster to run CS5 on a Mac Mini than CS4 on your G5 for example. Ditto for just about anything else. And this is the Mac Mini we're talking about -- we're not even in the same ballpark if we start talking about iMacs or Mac Pros. I don't know what exactly you mean by more standards. At the very best, the G5 uses cutting-edge standards of 2004 or 2005. Mac Minis are perfectly standards-compliant today. Right now. The fact of the matter is Apple and the industry rejected PowerPC years ago. It's not going to be much longer before you won't even be able to use current versions of basic necessities like Safari on your G5. Are you still going to cling to PowerPC then? We are here to help each other out, as owners of PowerPC systems that continue to use them for whatever purposes that we do. I have G4s and even 603s running in my house still currently. However, we should not kid ourselves, or others who seek our advice, by seriously recommending new purchases of PowerPC equipment for any reason other than a hobbyist pursuit, as if to ignore the state of the Macintosh platform and the assured EOL that approaches these systems faster every day. PowerPC. PageMill. AppleWorks. Mac OS Classic. We've pushed these technologies farther than their own engineers ever imagined they could possibly go. The end really is near. Some of us old timers who so vigorously advocated and evangelized the way have long ago come to terms with and accepted the inevitable. I'm disappointed that so many still seem unable or unwilling to leave the past behind. It really is better on the Intel side of the fence. Some day soon you will see that. /rant -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
latest mac mini for 10.4.11
I am thinking to move on from my fearless old sawtooth to a mini, but I'm not ready for the jump to 10.5. From what I read on this Apple page the latest models that are fully compatible with 10.4.11 are the mid 2007 models http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1159 (versions no later than MB139xx/A) It says Do not use a Mac OS X version earlier than the one included with the computer. How true is this? How true is it that my old cd set of 10.4 may not be compatible with a much later mini either? thanks! Del -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 9:21 AM, MnDel dsmn...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking to move on from my fearless old sawtooth to a mini, but I'm not ready for the jump to 10.5. Why? From what I read on this Apple page the latest models that are fully compatible with 10.4.11 are the mid 2007 models http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1159 (versions no later than MB139xx/A) It says Do not use a Mac OS X version earlier than the one included with the computer. How true is this? Very true. Earlier releases will not contain the hardware drivers necessary for newer Macs. How true is it that my old cd set of 10.4 may not be compatible with a much later mini either? Your CD set is not compatible with any intel Mac. It only has PPC code on it and won't even boot let alone install. The only 10.4 disc with Intel code (I think) is a later release of 10.4 Server. thanks! Del -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:07 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: Your CD set is not compatible with any intel Mac. It only has PPC code on it and won't even boot let alone install. The only 10.4 disc with Intel code (I think) is a later release of 10.4 Server. 10.4.8 was made as Intel. Possibly also as Universal. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Peter Haas wrote: 10.4.8 was made as Intel. Possibly also as Universal. My understanding is that Intel Macs are not installable from any retail Mac OS X Tiger install set, and especially not from a PowerPC Mac mini restore set. Regards, Dan Palka Info-Mac Moderator http://www.info-mac.org d...@info-mac.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Dan Palka wrote: ... and especially not from a PowerPC Mac mini restore set. Well, that is definitely a given (a PPC-only install DVD). But there exist 10.4.x universal installers. I am pretty sure I have one, somewhere. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:07 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: Your CD set is not compatible with any intel Mac. It only has PPC code on it and won't even boot let alone install. The only 10.4 disc with Intel code (I think) is a later release of 10.4 Server. Where can I find a copy of 10.4 server? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:27 AM, John Carmonne wrote: Where can I find a copy of 10.4 server? LEM is the best place. ePay is always a possibility. Even with 10.5 Server, the installation DVDs were Universal. At least the one I bought is Universal. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Peter Haas wrote: Even with 10.5 Server, the installation DVDs were Universal. At least the one I bought is Universal. All retail Leopard sets are universal. This was not the case for Tiger because upon Tiger's initial release Intels didn't exist. Since every Intel came with at least Tiger, there was no need to make universal Tiger retail installs. Why would anybody need to buy a retail copy of Tiger to install on their Intel. Regards, Dan Palka Info-Mac Moderator http://www.info-mac.org d...@info-mac.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
At 8:55 AM -0700 8/22/2010, Peter Haas wrote: On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:07 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: Your CD set is not compatible with any intel Mac. It only has PPC code on it and won't even boot let alone install. The only 10.4 disc with Intel code (I think) is a later release of 10.4 Server. 10.4.8 was made as Intel. Possibly also as Universal. No. The Tiger retail kit is ppc only. PowerPC based Macs came with ppc-only Tiger. x86 based Macs came with a special build, x86 only, of Tiger. There were NO universal Tiger builds. Leopard's retail kit is Universal (ppc x86). - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 9:13 AM, Peter Haas wrote: On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Dan Palka wrote: ... and especially not from a PowerPC Mac mini restore set. Well, that is definitely a given (a PPC-only install DVD). But there exist 10.4.x universal installers. I am pretty sure I have one, somewhere. I have 10.4 Universal but it will not install on a Mini. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On Aug 22, 2010, at 11:51 AM, John Carmonne wrote: I have 10.4 Universal but it will not install on a Mini. That's because 10.4 was never released as a Universal. It had a Retail disc, but it was PPC ONLY. Intel versions shipped with the machines they were intended to run on and were machine-specific. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
Del, Save Tiger for the fearless Sawtooth. Close your eyes and jump all the way to Snow Leopard. You'll never regret it. Tiger is still a superb OS, but Snow Leopard is not only superior, it's breathtakingly beautiful. As an added advantage, if you know your way around in Tiger, you won't feel disoriented in SL --just amazed. Best of luck, Felix On Aug 22, 9:21 am, MnDel dsmn...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking to move on from my fearless old sawtooth to a mini, but I'm not ready for the jump to 10.5. From what I read on this Apple page the latest models that are fully compatible with 10.4.11 are the mid 2007 modelshttp://support.apple.com/kb/HT1159 (versions no later than MB139xx/A) It says Do not use a Mac OS X version earlier than the one included with the computer. How true is this? How true is it that my old cd set of 10.4 may not be compatible with a much later mini either? thanks! Del -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: latest mac mini for 10.4.11
On retail disc? As far as I knew no retail 10.4 was intel/universal. There were, of course, 10.4 Intel discs included with Intel Macs, if that's what you're referencing. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Peter Haas peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:07 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: Your CD set is not compatible with any intel Mac. It only has PPC code on it and won't even boot let alone install. The only 10.4 disc with Intel code (I think) is a later release of 10.4 Server. 10.4.8 was made as Intel. Possibly also as Universal. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
