Re: [Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[Ian Haywood]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 5:32 AM,   wrote:
> http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-
>
> Comment #10 by Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA:

> I'm not the debian gambas package maintainer, but I guess I'll ping the 
> maintainers or upload in a delayed queue the fixes.
>
> thanks so far for the support!
One of the issues is, if not you, then gambas doesn't really have a
Debian "maintainer". I'm happy to help, but I'm wary of doing a lot of
work without a debian developer active and interested. in the past I
have had contributions sitting in alioth git waiting for weeks/months
to be uploaded.
(unfortunately debian does not have an equivalent to "launchpad" for
making third-party .debs available)

Ian

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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #11 by PICCORO LENZ MCKAY:

the problem now its that people supported "free" software (software or products 
?) are taking practiques from mocosoft people.. masking all with "evolution"

whyupdaye something that already work fine? oh yes "new" - "features" .. I 
telyou some:the formweb in gambas he/t are a true new feature.. but some 
stupids like "new api" have no real reasons..

I have Debian Lenny and works MORE FASTER well,some updates I took from squeeze 
and others from Jesse, please,everybody knowns that Debian its not more so 
faster rather in the past, got very slowly in few packages installed...


iwish to thanks Benoit for made possible build gambas 3.4 and 3.5 in Lenny, and 
also with some trick 3.6 and 3.8.… really appreciated men! KEEP THE GOOD WORK!

note: hey guys, now I m writing well right! no typing errors... I promise will 
going better.



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #10 by Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA:

1) no-go
2) maybe in the future
3) what I plan ow
4) it would be nice

for now I'm trying to upgrade gambas with a forced llvm-3.5.
In the future I'll disable jit if the llvm maintainer will ask to remove the 
package.

for sure 4) is the best option for the user experience

I'm not the debian gambas package maintainer, but I guess I'll ping the 
maintainers or upload in a delayed queue the fixes.

thanks so far for the support!



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Re: [Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[Emil Lenngren]

It's quite bad the LLVM team dropped the old jit...
I haven''t really looked into it but it might not be that hard to port it
to the new MCJIT (see
http://blog.llvm.org/2013/07/using-mcjit-with-kaleidoscope-tutorial.html).
Hopefully the API for generating the code instructions are the same and
they only changed the parts to define/create and optimize/compile a
function.

/Emil

2015-11-11 0:26 GMT+01:00 :

> http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-
>
> Comment #9 by gbWilly GAMBOS:
>
> I understand your problem but:
> - Gambas 3.5.4 doesn't support LLVM 3.6 and neither does the latest stable
> version 3.8.3
>
> If people on Debian still want to run Gambas, on a system that runs LLVM
> 3.6 or later, then gb.jit will need to be disabled to get Gambas installed.
>
> So, for now, the options are:
> 1. No Gambas on Debian systems running LLVM 3.6
> OR
> 2. Gambas with a disabled gb.jit on a Debian system running LLVM 3.6
> OR
> 3. Keep LLVM 3.5 alive in the Debain repo's for a while and use that
> version
> OR
> 4. Wait for a future Gambas version that might support LLVM 3.6
>
> But since Debain repo's are always miles behind with latest Gambas stable
> version, it might take years for option 4 to hit a Debian stable version.
>
> >From my perspective Gambas 3.8.2 should have been in sid or testing or
> even stable by now.
> Packaging Gambas 3.8.3 should be the thing to work on instead of bothering
> about a old Gambas 3.5.4 version.
>
> Is it not possible to have a later Gambas version in stable?
> If so, what are the obstacles? What does it take to get past those
> obstacles?
> Can the Gambas community do something to get that job done?
>
>
>
>
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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #8 by Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA:

Hi, to be clear, I know how to disable it the problem is people upgrading and 
loosing a feature

disabling stuff should be the really last chance here



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #9 by gbWilly GAMBOS:

I understand your problem but:
- Gambas 3.5.4 doesn't support LLVM 3.6 and neither does the latest stable 
version 3.8.3

If people on Debian still want to run Gambas, on a system that runs LLVM 3.6 or 
later, then gb.jit will need to be disabled to get Gambas installed.

So, for now, the options are:
1. No Gambas on Debian systems running LLVM 3.6
OR
2. Gambas with a disabled gb.jit on a Debian system running LLVM 3.6
OR
3. Keep LLVM 3.5 alive in the Debain repo's for a while and use that version
OR
4. Wait for a future Gambas version that might support LLVM 3.6

But since Debain repo's are always miles behind with latest Gambas stable 
version, it might take years for option 4 to hit a Debian stable version.

>From my perspective Gambas 3.8.2 should have been in sid or testing or even 
>stable by now.
Packaging Gambas 3.8.3 should be the thing to work on instead of bothering 
about a old Gambas 3.5.4 version.

Is it not possible to have a later Gambas version in stable?
If so, what are the obstacles? What does it take to get past those obstacles?
Can the Gambas community do something to get that job done?



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Re: [Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[Benoît Minisini]

Le 11/11/2015 01:06, Emil Lenngren a écrit :
> It's quite bad the LLVM team dropped the old jit...
> I haven''t really looked into it but it might not be that hard to port it
> to the new MCJIT (see
> http://blog.llvm.org/2013/07/using-mcjit-with-kaleidoscope-tutorial.html).
> Hopefully the API for generating the code instructions are the same and
> they only changed the parts to define/create and optimize/compile a
> function.
>
> /Emil
>

I'm afraid you are the only person who can do that. :-)

I have looked at the new JIT api of gcc a few months ago. It was simpler 
(for me, no C++), but it was not finished.

By the way, do you have any idea about bug #833?

Regards,

-- 
Benoît Minisini

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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #4 by Benoît MINISINI:

What's the problem with keeping an old version of LLVM? Do you plan to remove 
QT4, sqlite2 or GStreamer 1.0?

And why not using the latest stable version of Gambas?



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #6 by Benoît MINISINI:

'gb.jit' component is optional. You can either use a more recent gambas 
version, that will automatically disable the component compilation
as soon as the LLVM version does not match. If you can't, you have to 
explicitly compile gambas with "./configure --disable-jit". Is it
possible in debian?

As for LLVM jit deprecation, they should have keep it at least for a few 
version. And it's a shame if they can't make a not so old version compile 
easily anymore.
Are these guys really serious? I have no news from the guy who wrote the gb.jit 
component, so I don't think he will rewrite it entirely to match the new
LLVM jit API.

As for webkit deprecation, I'm aware of, and it's a problem too. Qt warned for 
it (a good point), but their replacement solution has
far less features (bad point). I have to create a new browser component based 
on their new engine, and make both compile
conditionally. But it's my job.

As for GStreamer: going from 0.10 to 1.0 just required a few changes. A smooth 
transition. Something that apparently LLVM guys do not care.

Now a last question : Sebastian Kulesz maintains an ubuntu ppa that allows 
ubuntu users to install the last stable version of Gambas, and
even a snapshot of the last unstable development version. What should I do to 
make Debian use a recent Gambas version?



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #5 by Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA:

Hi, the problem is that llvm is hard to maintain, and currently Debian provides
the 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 and snapshots versions.

now we are doing a transition to llvm-3.6 as default, and gambas is not 
building anymore
https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/llvm-defaults-3.6.html

(I'm planning to force 3.5 in the meanwhile, but it isn't the correct solution 
in the long term)

Upstream AFAIK doesn't support all of them, and this makes it even harder to 
maintain specially for LTS Debian releases.

So we are trying to migrate to newer llvm versions, and 3.4 will e.g. disappear 
soonish (we are currently working on ghc, the last
package that needs llvm-3.4, but for the new ghc releases they will bundle a 
llvm-style code, to build it internally when needed)
(they use it only for arm* and seems that they are going in this direction, 
even if I'm not sure it is acceptable for Debian and security)

QT4 AFAIK is not in the deprecation list, but they are removing the webkit 
support
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=784465
(this is something that is slowing down the migration to the new gambas3 
release)

for sqlite2 I'm not aware of any deprecation ongoing effort, while for 
gstreamer I'm not sure what do you mean, we recently removed
gstreamer 0.10, as you can see here [1] [2] [3] but I see gambas3 is using 
already gstreamer 1.0, so I'm not sure what is the successor
of it, but we shouldnt bother too soon :)

[1] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/gstreamer0.10-rm.html
[2] 
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=gstreamer0.10-removal;users=sl...@debian.org
[3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/05/msg00335.html



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Benoît MINISINI changed the state of the bug to: Rejected.




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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #2 by Benoît MINISINI:

...And I don't know what a "FTBFS" is.



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #1 by Benoît MINISINI:

Recent versions of Gambas now correctly check that the LLVM version is between 
3.1 and 3.5.

LLVM 3.6 decided to replace their old JIT API by a new incompatible one, and so 
broke programs like Gambas that relied on them.
There is no solution at the moment.

No idea why debian still wants to compile Gambas 3.5.4 which is sixteen months 
old.



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Comment #3 by Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA:

Hi Fails To Build From Source :)

Anyway, I'm trying to update gambas3 for Debian right now, and we are trying to 
remove llvm 3.4 and llvm 3.5 from the archive soon, this is why I opened this 
bug report.

cheers,

G.



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[Gambas-user] [Gambas Bug Tracker] Bug #835: gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

[bugtracker]

http://gambaswiki.org/bugtracker/edit?object=BUG.835=L21haW4-

Gianfranco COSTAMAGNA reported a new bug.

Summary
---

gambas3 doesn't build with llvm > 3.5

Type : Bug
Priority : Medium
Gambas version   : Unknown
Product  : Unknown


Description
---

Hi, as said, seems that the file
#include "llvm/ExecutionEngine/JIT.h" [1]

is not available anymore from llvm-3.6+ versions

this is leading gambas3 to a FTBFS [2]
[1] 
https://sourceforge.net/p/gambas/code/HEAD/tree/gambas/trunk/gb.jit/src/jit.h
[2] 
https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=gambas3=amd64=3.5.4-2%2Bb3=1446810176

thanks,

G.





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