Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-09 Thread Stephen 
On 03/09/2016 10:31 AM, Fabien Bodard wrote:
> The console is just a TextArea that show the output of your program on
> the standard out.
>
> Well the good thing will be what i've begin but by lack of time and
> maybe because i want to touch the clouds
> i've not finished.
>
> I wanted to draw a true virtual terminal (VT100 compatible) in gambas.
> So what is possible to me is to just make on a first step a
> minimalistic terminal that talk with a stream. The stream will be the
> standart I/O during the execution and the Gambas Interpreter in debug
> time with a true prompt.
>
> So i'll rework on gb.terminal to just manage the basic commands and
> excape on a first time all the VT spécific one. (Accepted : letters,
> linefeed, return, tab, bkspace).
>
> Just give me one month. But help and suggestion will be welcome.
>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
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Hi ya Fabian!

   Sounds interesting, I have a couple of nice DEC mico-VAX's here I 
could test it out on LOL :)

-- 
Kindest Regards
Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
Smarts On Site Information Systems


--
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-09 Thread Stephen 
On 03/09/2016 11:37 AM, Benoît Minisini wrote:
> Le 09/03/2016 14:21, Stephen a écrit :
>> Different is not the problem, going backwards by implementing a bad
>> design is the problem. Easier to use, faster in use, and more intuitive
>> to use, all of those are good; sadly a scrollable single line command
>> entry area with a kludge to echo the commands to the output area, is
>> none of those things.  When compared to using print statements in the
>> code it is a (marginal) improvement... an evolutionary step, the next of
>> which would be to become what it replaced.
>>
>> Anyway, my moaning about it isn't getting the code debugged, which was
>> that caused a "WTF" moment and these messages, nor is it making life
>> better by replacing what we lost. Is it (the console) written entirely
>> in GAMBAS? If I can get some time I might do something about it.
>>
> The problem was that before, some users thought that the IDE console was
> a true terminal, whereas it was just a read-only text-editor with
> tweaks. Which lead to confusion.
>
> I agree that the new interface is not very nice, but there is no
> confusion anymore that way.
>
> Moreover, it has a command history, which was impossible with the
> previous interface.
>
> And as said Fabien, as soon as he will be able to produce a true
> terminal emulator, we will be able to go back to a terminal-like interface.
>
> Regards,
>
Some users being confused could have been fixed with education. The 
original didn't have a command history like bash, but it did let you 
scroll up, place your cursor st the end of a command and press [Enter] 
to execute it again, or edit the line and execute it, or copy the line, 
past it, edit it and execute it.
-- 

Kindest Regards
Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
Smarts On Site Information Systems


--
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-09 Thread Benoît Minisini 
Le 09/03/2016 14:21, Stephen a écrit :
> Different is not the problem, going backwards by implementing a bad
> design is the problem. Easier to use, faster in use, and more intuitive
> to use, all of those are good; sadly a scrollable single line command
> entry area with a kludge to echo the commands to the output area, is
> none of those things.  When compared to using print statements in the
> code it is a (marginal) improvement... an evolutionary step, the next of
> which would be to become what it replaced.
>
> Anyway, my moaning about it isn't getting the code debugged, which was
> that caused a "WTF" moment and these messages, nor is it making life
> better by replacing what we lost. Is it (the console) written entirely
> in GAMBAS? If I can get some time I might do something about it.
>

The problem was that before, some users thought that the IDE console was 
a true terminal, whereas it was just a read-only text-editor with 
tweaks. Which lead to confusion.

I agree that the new interface is not very nice, but there is no 
confusion anymore that way.

Moreover, it has a command history, which was impossible with the 
previous interface.

And as said Fabien, as soon as he will be able to produce a true 
terminal emulator, we will be able to go back to a terminal-like interface.

Regards,

-- 
Benoît Minisini

--
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-09 Thread Fabien Bodard 
The console is just a TextArea that show the output of your program on
the standard out.

Well the good thing will be what i've begin but by lack of time and
maybe because i want to touch the clouds
i've not finished.

I wanted to draw a true virtual terminal (VT100 compatible) in gambas.
So what is possible to me is to just make on a first step a
minimalistic terminal that talk with a stream. The stream will be the
standart I/O during the execution and the Gambas Interpreter in debug
time with a true prompt.

So i'll rework on gb.terminal to just manage the basic commands and
excape on a first time all the VT spécific one. (Accepted : letters,
linefeed, return, tab, bkspace).

Just give me one month. But help and suggestion will be welcome.

--
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Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
Click to learn more.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111=/4140
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-09 Thread Stephen 
Different is not the problem, going backwards by implementing a bad 
design is the problem. Easier to use, faster in use, and more intuitive 
to use, all of those are good; sadly a scrollable single line command 
entry area with a kludge to echo the commands to the output area, is 
none of those things.  When compared to using print statements in the 
code it is a (marginal) improvement... an evolutionary step, the next of 
which would be to become what it replaced.

Anyway, my moaning about it isn't getting the code debugged, which was 
that caused a "WTF" moment and these messages, nor is it making life 
better by replacing what we lost. Is it (the console) written entirely 
in GAMBAS? If I can get some time I might do something about it.

On 03/07/2016 05:55 PM, Jussi Lahtinen wrote:
> I personally like the old way, but there is nothing I cannot do with this
> new way. And it doesn't have any effect on my working speed.
>
> Do you mean you need the console to its own window?
> Go to Debug menu and select "Use terminal emulator".  Maybe that will do it?
>
> So far you haven't said anything of what is actually the problem with the
> new console. Yes, it's different, but that might not motive anyone to do
> anything about it.
>
>
> Jussi
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Stephen  wrote:
>
>> Why not?
>>
>> Because full screen editing (full window in this case) as it was
>> implemented is better in every way.
>>
>> While the console is not a class editor, would this data entry paradigm
>> be an improvement if applied to the class editor? I'll vote "No" on that
>> one.
>>
>> The new console breaks consistency with the IDE's UI, it feels like an
>> antique wooden-wheel on vehicle that is otherwise very advanced.
>>
>> So I have to ask Benoit: what was the driving force?
>>
>>
>> On 03/07/2016 11:20 AM, Jussi Lahtinen wrote:
>>> Why not?
>>> You need to put the input on one line anyway and the result can have
>>> multiple lines (or you may want to compare multiple results). So I think
>> it
>>> is logical in that way.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jussi
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Stephen
>> wrote:
 Is the console SUPPOSED to have a one line input field with a massive
 results area above it? Please tell me sanity has returned and later
 versions have a console in the traditional sense.
 --

 Kindest Regards
 Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
 Smarts On Site Information Systems




>> --
 Transform Data into Opportunity.
 Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
 Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
 Click to learn more.
 http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
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 Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
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>> --
>>> Transform Data into Opportunity.
>>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>>> Click to learn more.
>>> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
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>>> Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Kindest Regards
>> Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
>> Smarts On Site Information Systems
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Transform Data into Opportunity.
>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>> Click to learn more.
>> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>>
> --
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> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
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>


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Smarts On Site Information Systems


--
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-08 Thread Jussi Lahtinen 
I personally like the old way, but there is nothing I cannot do with this
new way. And it doesn't have any effect on my working speed.

Do you mean you need the console to its own window?
Go to Debug menu and select "Use terminal emulator".  Maybe that will do it?

So far you haven't said anything of what is actually the problem with the
new console. Yes, it's different, but that might not motive anyone to do
anything about it.


Jussi


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Stephen  wrote:

> Why not?
>
> Because full screen editing (full window in this case) as it was
> implemented is better in every way.
>
> While the console is not a class editor, would this data entry paradigm
> be an improvement if applied to the class editor? I'll vote "No" on that
> one.
>
> The new console breaks consistency with the IDE's UI, it feels like an
> antique wooden-wheel on vehicle that is otherwise very advanced.
>
> So I have to ask Benoit: what was the driving force?
>
>
> On 03/07/2016 11:20 AM, Jussi Lahtinen wrote:
> > Why not?
> > You need to put the input on one line anyway and the result can have
> > multiple lines (or you may want to compare multiple results). So I think
> it
> > is logical in that way.
> >
> >
> > Jussi
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Stephen
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is the console SUPPOSED to have a one line input field with a massive
> >> results area above it? Please tell me sanity has returned and later
> >> versions have a console in the traditional sense.
> >> --
> >>
> >> Kindest Regards
> >> Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
> >> Smarts On Site Information Systems
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --
> >> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> >> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> >> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> >> Click to learn more.
> >> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
> >> ___
> >> Gambas-user mailing list
> >> Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
> >>
> >
> --
> > Transform Data into Opportunity.
> > Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> > Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> > Click to learn more.
> > http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
> > ___
> > Gambas-user mailing list
> > Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
> >
>
>
> --
> Kindest Regards
> Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
> Smarts On Site Information Systems
>
>
>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-07 Thread Stephen 
Why not?

Because full screen editing (full window in this case) as it was 
implemented is better in every way.

While the console is not a class editor, would this data entry paradigm 
be an improvement if applied to the class editor? I'll vote "No" on that 
one.

The new console breaks consistency with the IDE's UI, it feels like an 
antique wooden-wheel on vehicle that is otherwise very advanced.

So I have to ask Benoit: what was the driving force?


On 03/07/2016 11:20 AM, Jussi Lahtinen wrote:
> Why not?
> You need to put the input on one line anyway and the result can have
> multiple lines (or you may want to compare multiple results). So I think it
> is logical in that way.
>
>
> Jussi
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Stephen  wrote:
>
>> Is the console SUPPOSED to have a one line input field with a massive
>> results area above it? Please tell me sanity has returned and later
>> versions have a console in the traditional sense.
>> --
>>
>> Kindest Regards
>> Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
>> Smarts On Site Information Systems
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Transform Data into Opportunity.
>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>> Click to learn more.
>> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
>> ___
>> Gambas-user mailing list
>> Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>


-- 
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Re: [Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-07 Thread Jussi Lahtinen 
Why not?
You need to put the input on one line anyway and the result can have
multiple lines (or you may want to compare multiple results). So I think it
is logical in that way.


Jussi

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Stephen  wrote:

> Is the console SUPPOSED to have a one line input field with a massive
> results area above it? Please tell me sanity has returned and later
> versions have a console in the traditional sense.
> --
>
> Kindest Regards
> Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
> Smarts On Site Information Systems
>
>
>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
> http://makebettercode.com/inteldaal-eval
> ___
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> Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
>
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[Gambas-user] Console in V 3.8.4

2016-03-07 Thread Stephen 
Is the console SUPPOSED to have a one line input field with a massive 
results area above it? Please tell me sanity has returned and later 
versions have a console in the traditional sense.
-- 

Kindest Regards
Stephen A. Bungay, Prop.
Smarts On Site Information Systems


--
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