Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 12:24 AM, Kevin Fishburne wrote: On 11/26/2014 12:02 AM, T Lee Davidson wrote: Hence, my suggestion that it could be used as a pseudo-marketplace by allowing publishers to make their listing private. The payment and/or transaction details, access credential delivery, and level of on-going support (free/paid) would be the responsibility the individual publisher. That's an interesting suggestion, but I'm not sure if it can be made to fit in with the plan to have the farm compile and install the application on the end user's system. If that's the farm's primary objective then it would be too late for a password-protective archive as the program would already be installed. I don't see why it would be too late. The password-protection would naturally come into play prior to the download/compile/install access being granted. Any publishers successfully using the Farm commercially could graciously 'buy Benoît a beer', or three. True, I've even bought him a few beers myself, but I wouldn't build a business on that premise. Oh, I didn't realize Benoît was trying to build a business from the Farm. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
Le 26/11/2014 12:05, T Lee Davidson a écrit : Oh, I didn't realize Benoît was trying to build a business from the Farm. No, I don't. Did I say that? -- Benoît Minisini -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
2014-11-26 12:22 GMT+01:00 Benoît Minisini gam...@users.sourceforge.net: Le 26/11/2014 12:05, T Lee Davidson a écrit : Oh, I didn't realize Benoît was trying to build a business from the Farm. No, I don't. Did I say that? XD.. Not Benoit, ... I would keep the money for you, Benoit. I understand quite users who want to protect their work and of course earn some money. This is not my case, I am a pure geek who also work full time. I like the idea of a password, one could also imagine a password dynamic key. That is to say a calculated key and unique provided by the farm at the time of payment. This key would last permanent validity or limited. In the case of a pseudo binary call the source would be downloaded in the background and compiled on the client machine to a temporary folder before being deleted. Of course this is only a very superficial protection code. -- Fabien Bodard -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
hum an Hurry need... Can we have a way to change the password ... or a way to retreive it ... I forget mine. :-/ -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
2014-11-26 15:58 GMT+01:00 Fabien Bodard gambas...@gmail.com: hum an Hurry need... Can we have a way to change the password ... or a way to retreive it ... I forget mine. :-/ And Benoit : The click on the cross must abort the connection... actually if there is text in the textboxes it is not the case. (FFarmConfig) -- Fabien Bodard -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 06:22 AM, Benoît Minisini wrote: Le 26/11/2014 12:05, T Lee Davidson a écrit : Oh, I didn't realize Benoît was trying to build a business from the Farm. No, I don't. Did I say that? No, Benoît, to my knowledge you never said that. My statement was only in response to: Any publishers successfully using the Farm commercially could graciously 'buy Benoît a beer', or three. True, I've even bought him a few beers myself, but I wouldn't build a business on that premise. For which the only logical, even if incorrect, conclusion would be that you would be the one trying to build a business on the 'buy me a beer' premise. It was implied. But again, to be clear, to my knowledge you never said or even hinted at that. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 09:47 AM, Fabien Bodard wrote: I like the idea of a password, one could also imagine a password dynamic key. That is to say a calculated key and unique provided by the farm at the time of payment. Yes, Fabien, that would be very handy for a marketplace. But, my idea of protecting private listings with a password was not intended to complicate the Farm platform, nor to try turning it into a marketplace. If the Farm provided any access credentials at the time of payment, then it would have to process payments -- and would be a marketplace. The idea was primarily intended to respect Benoît's declaration that the Farm is not intended to be a marketplace while giving publishers, who wished to do so, the ability to use it *somewhat* in that manner. It should be quite simple in concept. 1. Publisher sets listing to Private and sets a password. 2. User wishing to have publisher's software follows publisher's URL. 3. Publisher handles all the rest through to providing the password. Of course, if Benoît wants to make it more complicated than that, that's up to him. :-) -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
2014-11-26 19:12 GMT+01:00 T Lee Davidson t.lee.david...@gmail.com: On 11/26/2014 09:47 AM, Fabien Bodard wrote: I like the idea of a password, one could also imagine a password dynamic key. That is to say a calculated key and unique provided by the farm at the time of payment. Yes, Fabien, that would be very handy for a marketplace. But, my idea of protecting private listings with a password was not intended to complicate the Farm platform, nor to try turning it into a marketplace. If the Farm provided any access credentials at the time of payment, then it would have to process payments -- and would be a marketplace. The idea was primarily intended to respect Benoît's declaration that the Farm is not intended to be a marketplace while giving publishers, who wished to do so, the ability to use it *somewhat* in that manner. It should be quite simple in concept. 1. Publisher sets listing to Private and sets a password. 2. User wishing to have publisher's software follows publisher's URL. 3. Publisher handles all the rest through to providing the password. Of course, if Benoît wants to make it more complicated than that, that's up to him. :-) I don't want to it to be so complicated... it was just an idea. As the farm can be not only on the wiki place but on private servers too. It was an idea for extends. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user -- Fabien Bodard -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 06:22 AM, Benoît Minisini wrote: Le 26/11/2014 12:05, T Lee Davidson a écrit : Oh, I didn't realize Benoît was trying to build a business from the Farm. No, I don't. Did I say that? LOL. T Lee keeps assigning my desires as other people's desires. The opinions I express here are my own and generally reflect my interests. With any hypothetical situation I describe, feel free to assume it pertains to me and not Benoît or anyone else. :) -- Kevin Fishburne Eight Virtues www: http://sales.eightvirtues.com e-mail: sa...@eightvirtues.com phone: (770) 853-6271 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 12:55 PM, T Lee Davidson wrote: No, Benoît, to my knowledge you never said that. My statement was only in response to: Any publishers successfully using the Farm commercially could graciously 'buy Benoît a beer', or three. True, I've even bought him a few beers myself, but I wouldn't build a business on that premise. For which the only logical, even if incorrect, conclusion would be that you would be the one trying to build a business on the 'buy me a beer' premise. It was implied. But again, to be clear, to my knowledge you never said or even hinted at that. It's my fault. Confusion and chaos follow me like a swarm of hornets. -- Kevin Fishburne Eight Virtues www: http://sales.eightvirtues.com e-mail: sa...@eightvirtues.com phone: (770) 853-6271 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 22:05:26 +0100 Fabien Bodard gambas...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-11-26 19:12 GMT+01:00 T Lee Davidson t.lee.david...@gmail.com: On 11/26/2014 09:47 AM, Fabien Bodard wrote: I like the idea of a password, one could also imagine a password dynamic key. That is to say a calculated key and unique provided by the farm at the time of payment. Yes, Fabien, that would be very handy for a marketplace. But, my idea of protecting private listings with a password was not intended to complicate the Farm platform, nor to try turning it into a marketplace. If the Farm provided any access credentials at the time of payment, then it would have to process payments -- and would be a marketplace. The idea was primarily intended to respect Benoît's declaration that the Farm is not intended to be a marketplace while giving publishers, who wished to do so, the ability to use it *somewhat* in that manner. It should be quite simple in concept. 1. Publisher sets listing to Private and sets a password. 2. User wishing to have publisher's software follows publisher's URL. 3. Publisher handles all the rest through to providing the password. Of course, if Benoît wants to make it more complicated than that, that's up to him. :-) I don't want to it to be so complicated... it was just an idea. As the farm can be not only on the wiki place but on private servers too. It was an idea for extends. Which is certainly the way we intend to use it. One thought, if the download part was managed using ftp rather than http then the private downloading could possibly be handled via the ftp server security features without much internal effort? I believe, but haven't tried it, that the ftpClient has the means to pass the necessary credentials on a Get. (Note: I mean the actual retrieval part only, not the whole farm concept.) regards Bruce -- B Bruen adamn...@gmail.com -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/26/2014 04:05 PM, Fabien Bodard wrote: I don't want to it to be so complicated... it was just an idea. As the farm can be not only on the wiki place but on private servers too. It was an idea for extends. Okay, Fabien. I understand; and thank you. I just wanted to be clear on the fact that my suggestion was in no way intended to turn the Farm into a marketplace, nor to make development unduly more complicated than reasonable. Perhaps extensions could ultimately be plugged in. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
Le 27/11/2014 00:32, T Lee Davidson a écrit : On 11/26/2014 04:05 PM, Fabien Bodard wrote: I don't want to it to be so complicated... it was just an idea. As the farm can be not only on the wiki place but on private servers too. It was an idea for extends. Okay, Fabien. I understand; and thank you. I just wanted to be clear on the fact that my suggestion was in no way intended to turn the Farm into a marketplace, nor to make development unduly more complicated than reasonable. Perhaps extensions could ultimately be plugged in. No problem : a suggestion changes nothing. Writing code does. And it's free software, so anybody can take the code and transform the Gambas farm into a market place. :-) -- Benoît Minisini -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
Am 24.11.2014 15:46, schrieb Benoît Minisini: Le 24/11/2014 15:37, Rolf-Werner Eilert a écrit : As far as I know from KDE 3 and 4, - A *.desktop file is created and installed in '~/.local/share/applications' so that it appears in the desktop menu. the .desktop files are stored in ~/Desktop. On my system, firefox.desktop is the only one residing in ~/.local/share/applications and there is a copy of it in ~/Desktop. I'm talking about the desktop application menu: this is a freedesktop.org standard. To add a menu entry, you have to install a *.desktop file in that folder. Yes, I got you wrong here of course! By the way, the farm is a very good idea! And it reminded me of your idea of a simple picture editor. I needed such a thing this weekend, but in lack of other software I used Gimp instead which is a bit of a functional dinosaur for just cutting an area from a smartphone photo and reducing the resulting picture to a smaller size... You can use the image editor of the IDE. It has a few bugs, but it is useful for not so simple tasks. Ah, forgot about that one. But it was on my wife's laptop, and she doesn't have a Gambas installed :) Thinking about your idea, I came to the point where it should be possible to just install such a program, with all dependencies (and the Gambas interpreter itself) installing automagically. As far as I understand, your farm will work like this. The only thing I'm not clear about is if you intend the farm to be for people just using the software or for potential Gambas programmers who want to take a look at the code? The last goal: the farm server can only host source code archive. The source code is compiled on the user's system, but the source remains available. In other words, it's not a market place. :-) Ok... I don't have any experience with such a thing, so I can't say what I would use it for. Maybe I'll find out later! Regards Rolf -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/25/2014 05:20 AM, B Bruen wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:11:54 +0100 Benoît Minisini gam...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: - Installing is not done. I still maintain that autotools is the way to go. It is, as far as I know, distro independent and complies with the desire to make the whole menagerie based on source code visibility. The installer, apart from the nastiness checking previously posted, could use the existing code in the IDE to create an autotools package and then run the .reconf;.configure;make;su(do) make install circus to install it. Maybe I'm missing something, but why do all that? The IDE already has a package maker. Why not just let the user make their own application package and install from that? Gambas must be installed to run the application anyway, right? Perhaps an option to install the package after its creation could be added to the package maker. - In the future, the error message could be replaced by an automatic installation of binary packages depending on the distribution. I need help for that: for each distribution, I need to know how to install a binary package, and if the distribution follows the gambas binary package naming convention. As mentioned by Kevin, I would eschew binary installs. Too much danger. Not necessarily. People install binary packages from various unofficial repositories all the time, like the Daily PPA. I think the main issue with installing binary packages is: Is the repository trusted. That being said, I think that doing binary installs of applications published on the Farm just complicates things needlessly. But then there are components which I have not worked with. Can they also be made into packages via the IDE? Or are we talking about installing the necessary Gambas components from the distribution's repository? - If there are dependencies of other softwares, then a recursive search of all the dependencies is done, and the corresponding software must be installed first. We have found that too hard. Better a message Can't install, you need the zyxxy component to be installed first. That may be what Benoît was saying. - The source package is downloaded, and stored in something like '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/'. Hmmm. Not sure. I have a feeling ~/Downloads may be more friendly, or a configurable target. ~/Downloads is not guaranteed to exist. So, if a hard-coded '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/' is not acceptable, then a configurable target should be allowed. But, in my opinion, '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/' makes more sense since this *is* a Gambas thing, and ~/Downloads can get cluttered just like ~/Desktop does. Now, for those who may wish to use the Farm as a (pseudo-)marketplace. I wonder if adding the ability to password-protect an application/component listing, like published and private, would be worth considering. It would definitely not be ideal, but might be workable. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
Le 25/11/2014 17:55, T Lee Davidson a écrit : On 11/25/2014 05:20 AM, B Bruen wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:11:54 +0100 Benoît Minisini gam...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: - Installing is not done. I still maintain that autotools is the way to go. It is, as far as I know, distro independent and complies with the desire to make the whole menagerie based on source code visibility. The installer, apart from the nastiness checking previously posted, could use the existing code in the IDE to create an autotools package and then run the .reconf;.configure;make;su(do) make install circus to install it. Maybe I'm missing something, but why do all that? The IDE already has a package maker. Why not just let the user make their own application package and install from that? Gambas must be installed to run the application anyway, right? Perhaps an option to install the package after its creation could be added to the package maker. Binary packages must be made for all distributions, and some distributions are not well supported, or not supported at all. The Gambas Farm allows to install any Gambas program in one click whatever your Linux system is. And you have to upload only one package. - In the future, the error message could be replaced by an automatic installation of binary packages depending on the distribution. I need help for that: for each distribution, I need to know how to install a binary package, and if the distribution follows the gambas binary package naming convention. As mentioned by Kevin, I would eschew binary installs. Too much danger. Not necessarily. People install binary packages from various unofficial repositories all the time, like the Daily PPA. I think the main issue with installing binary packages is: Is the repository trusted. That being said, I think that doing binary installs of applications published on the Farm just complicates things needlessly. But then there are components which I have not worked with. Can they also be made into packages via the IDE? Or are we talking about installing the necessary Gambas components from the distribution's repository? The later. - If there are dependencies of other softwares, then a recursive search of all the dependencies is done, and the corresponding software must be installed first. We have found that too hard. Better a message Can't install, you need the zyxxy component to be installed first. That may be what Benoît was saying. - The source package is downloaded, and stored in something like '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/'. Hmmm. Not sure. I have a feeling ~/Downloads may be more friendly, or a configurable target. ~/Downloads is not guaranteed to exist. So, if a hard-coded '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/' is not acceptable, then a configurable target should be allowed. But, in my opinion, '~/.local/gambas3/farm/farm server/' makes more sense since this *is* a Gambas thing, and ~/Downloads can get cluttered just like ~/Desktop does. See my answer in Bruen's mail. Now, for those who may wish to use the Farm as a (pseudo-)marketplace. I wonder if adding the ability to password-protect an application/component listing, like published and private, would be worth considering. It would definitely not be ideal, but might be workable. Please elaborate. Regards, -- Benoît Minisini -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/25/2014 05:25 PM, Benoît Minisini wrote: Binary packages must be made for all distributions I would ask why must binary packages be made for all distributions (IMHO a huge undertaking), but you have answered that in the paragraph below. The Gambas Farm allows to install any Gambas program in one click whatever your Linux system is. And you have to upload only one package. That is definitely an awesome goal. But, I just have to wonder why is it necessary to go that far? If, as I thought, the Gambas Farm would be more of a source-code repository, compiling/packaging could be left up to the user, greatly simplifying things. However, if that particular decision has already been made, then my thoughts on it are moot. Now, for those who may wish to use the Farm as a (pseudo-)marketplace. I wonder if adding the ability to password-protect an application/component listing, like published and private, would be worth considering. It would definitely not be ideal, but might be workable. Please elaborate. I don't know if I can elaborate much as it was just a conceptual idea. Wordpress allows pages/posts to be published as public or private. It is a similar concept but applied instead to application/component listings on the Farm. Conceptually, publishers could choose to password-protect their listing. It may be visible, with its description, in whatever directory or listing there is, or found through a search. But, to view the source code or to download/install the program would require a password that the user would need to get from the publisher. One of the reasons it is not ideal is that passwords can be easily shared. A publisher might, therefore, wish to periodically change the password for their listing. Again, not ideal, but maybe workable. For a true marketplace, specially coded (redirect) download links would likely be generated on-the-fly after payment processing. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/25/2014 07:07 PM, T Lee Davidson wrote: On 11/25/2014 05:25 PM, Benoît Minisini wrote: Now, for those who may wish to use the Farm as a (pseudo-)marketplace. I wonder if adding the ability to password-protect an application/component listing, like published and private, would be worth considering. It would definitely not be ideal, but might be workable. Please elaborate. I don't know if I can elaborate much as it was just a conceptual idea. Wordpress allows pages/posts to be published as public or private. It is a similar concept but applied instead to application/component listings on the Farm. Conceptually, publishers could choose to password-protect their listing. It may be visible, with its description, in whatever directory or listing there is, or found through a search. But, to view the source code or to download/install the program would require a password that the user would need to get from the publisher. One of the reasons it is not ideal is that passwords can be easily shared. A publisher might, therefore, wish to periodically change the password for their listing. Again, not ideal, but maybe workable. For a true marketplace, specially coded (redirect) download links would likely be generated on-the-fly after payment processing. Since the farm (as it stands currently) is only for free software (as in GPL), users will be free to circumvent payment by downloading the application from another source, such as someone who paid and then began hosting the source code and/or binaries themselves. This is perfectly legal, as the GPL states users may modify or distribute the application as they see fit as long as they provide access to the source code. So payment will effectively be for convenience, application support or kindness rather than the only way they can access the application. I'm thinking that creating a payment system for GAMBAS would be an insane amount of work and probably isn't a good idea. A much easier way would be to support existing payment solutions such as PayPal. Here's some information on their digital goods payment solutions: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/digital-goods https://cms.paypal.com/cms_content/US/en_US/files/merchant/paypal_digital_goods-express_checkout_getting_started.pdf Express Checkout supports NVP and SOAP while Adaptive Payments (not sure what the difference is) support those and JSON. Adaptive Payments also supports multi-party payments, meaning Benoît can have his 10%. =) When submitting an application to the farm it would need to give you the option to enter a PayPal merchant ID and a sale price. When someone chooses to download that project, the farm would use PayPal's mechanism in conjunction with that information. When the purchase is successful, I'm guessing PayPal would communicate back the payment status, after which the Farm would download/install the application. I think all of this is web-based, perhaps someone else has more experience with this? -- Kevin Fishburne Eight Virtues www: http://sales.eightvirtues.com e-mail: sa...@eightvirtues.com phone: (770) 853-6271 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/25/2014 10:38 PM, Kevin Fishburne wrote: Since the farm (as it stands currently) is only for free software (as in GPL), users will be free to circumvent payment by downloading the application from another source, such as someone who paid and then began hosting the source code and/or binaries themselves. This is perfectly legal, as the GPL states users may modify or distribute the application as they see fit as long as they provide access to the source code. So payment will effectively be for convenience, application support or kindness rather than the only way they can access the application. I'm thinking that creating a payment system for GAMBAS would be an insane amount of work and probably isn't a good idea. A much easier way would be to support existing payment solutions such as PayPal. Here's some information on their digital goods payment solutions: Benoît stated that the Farm was not intended to be a marketplace. Hence, my suggestion that it could be used as a pseudo-marketplace by allowing publishers to make their listing private. The payment and/or transaction details, access credential delivery, and level of on-going support (free/paid) would be the responsibility the individual publisher. I was not suggesting creating a payment system for GAMBAS, nor complicating or burdening the Farm platform with transactional needs. All I was proposing was simply allowing publishers to make their listing private if they wished. The rest would be up to them. Any publishers successfully using the Farm commercially could graciously 'buy Benoît a beer', or three. -- Lee __ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
I for one would be in favor of a published and private access to components available on the farm. RegardsMike On Wednesday, 26 November 2014, 13:25, Kevin Fishburne kevinfishbu...@eightvirtues.com wrote: On 11/26/2014 12:02 AM, T Lee Davidson wrote: On 11/25/2014 10:38 PM, Kevin Fishburne wrote: Since the farm (as it stands currently) is only for free software (as in GPL), users will be free to circumvent payment by downloading the application from another source, such as someone who paid and then began hosting the source code and/or binaries themselves. This is perfectly legal, as the GPL states users may modify or distribute the application as they see fit as long as they provide access to the source code. So payment will effectively be for convenience, application support or kindness rather than the only way they can access the application. I'm thinking that creating a payment system for GAMBAS would be an insane amount of work and probably isn't a good idea. A much easier way would be to support existing payment solutions such as PayPal. Here's some information on their digital goods payment solutions: Benoît stated that the Farm was not intended to be a marketplace. While that is true, it may not always be the case. Things change according to the wants and needs of users and developers. At this time there may be little interest in that particular functionality among developers, but it seems an obvious extension to what is essentially a digital distribution service, so I think it's worth at least discussing. Hence, my suggestion that it could be used as a pseudo-marketplace by allowing publishers to make their listing private. The payment and/or transaction details, access credential delivery, and level of on-going support (free/paid) would be the responsibility the individual publisher. That's an interesting suggestion, but I'm not sure if it can be made to fit in with the plan to have the farm compile and install the application on the end user's system. If that's the farm's primary objective then it would be too late for a password-protective archive as the program would already be installed. I was not suggesting creating a payment system for GAMBAS, nor complicating or burdening the Farm platform with transactional needs. I am suggesting 3rd party payment processing integration. :) Didn't mean to imply that you were suggesting it. Any publishers successfully using the Farm commercially could graciously 'buy Benoît a beer', or three. True, I've even bought him a few beers myself, but I wouldn't build a business on that premise. -- Kevin Fishburne Eight Virtues www: http://sales.eightvirtues.com e-mail: sa...@eightvirtues.com phone: (770) 853-6271 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
As far as I know from KDE 3 and 4, - A *.desktop file is created and installed in '~/.local/share/applications' so that it appears in the desktop menu. the .desktop files are stored in ~/Desktop. On my system, firefox.desktop is the only one residing in ~/.local/share/applications and there is a copy of it in ~/Desktop. By the way, the farm is a very good idea! And it reminded me of your idea of a simple picture editor. I needed such a thing this weekend, but in lack of other software I used Gimp instead which is a bit of a functional dinosaur for just cutting an area from a smartphone photo and reducing the resulting picture to a smaller size... Thinking about your idea, I came to the point where it should be possible to just install such a program, with all dependencies (and the Gambas interpreter itself) installing automagically. As far as I understand, your farm will work like this. The only thing I'm not clear about is if you intend the farm to be for people just using the software or for potential Gambas programmers who want to take a look at the code? Regards Rolf -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
2014-11-24 15:46 GMT+01:00 Benoît Minisini gam...@users.sourceforge.net: Le 24/11/2014 15:37, Rolf-Werner Eilert a écrit : As far as I know from KDE 3 and 4, - A *.desktop file is created and installed in '~/.local/share/applications' so that it appears in the desktop menu. the .desktop files are stored in ~/Desktop. On my system, firefox.desktop is the only one residing in ~/.local/share/applications and there is a copy of it in ~/Desktop. I'm talking about the desktop application menu: this is a freedesktop.org standard. To add a menu entry, you have to install a *.desktop file in that folder. By the way, the farm is a very good idea! And it reminded me of your idea of a simple picture editor. I needed such a thing this weekend, but in lack of other software I used Gimp instead which is a bit of a functional dinosaur for just cutting an area from a smartphone photo and reducing the resulting picture to a smaller size... You can use the image editor of the IDE. It has a few bugs, but it is useful for not so simple tasks. Thinking about your idea, I came to the point where it should be possible to just install such a program, with all dependencies (and the Gambas interpreter itself) installing automagically. As far as I understand, your farm will work like this. The only thing I'm not clear about is if you intend the farm to be for people just using the software or for potential Gambas programmers who want to take a look at the code? The last goal: the farm server can only host source code archive. The source code is compiled on the user's system, but the source remains available. In other words, it's not a market place. :-) But it can be a good source base for someone that want to do one -- Benoît Minisini -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user -- Fabien Bodard -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
Re: [Gambas-user] Gambas Software Farm in revision #6676
On 11/24/2014 05:38 PM, Fabien Bodard wrote: 2014-11-24 15:46 GMT+01:00 Benoît Minisini gam...@users.sourceforge.net: The last goal: the farm server can only host source code archive. The source code is compiled on the user's system, but the source remains available. In other words, it's not a market place. :-) But it can be a good source base for someone that want to do one Embrace the market place. Without it semiconductors and mailing lists wouldn't exist, and we'd all be out in the woods gathering berries and hitting each other over the heads with rocks. Free software is good, but having food and shelter is better. Even if the source code being made available is a requirement (GPL and kindred), having a way to pay for an application or donate to its developer should be strongly considered. Benoît could be the new Gabe Newell, taking 10% off the top to ensure the continued development of GAMBAS and pay the repository bandwidth bills. The bearded old man in the sky agrees with this: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html -- Kevin Fishburne Eight Virtues www: http://sales.eightvirtues.com e-mail: sa...@eightvirtues.com phone: (770) 853-6271 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Gambas-user mailing list Gambas-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gambas-user
