Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
hi i agree. i use to play fifa 2001 for the p s 2 and yes it is a main stream game but i was able to learn the menus how to set up the formations and also most of the players on each team including subs and resurves so i could set my team up how i wanted it. Although now fifa has got to hard now as the games have got better. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Accessible client for running adrift IF games
Aside from using jaws cursor along with the adrift runner that came with a version of adrift 3.9 I downloaded recently, is there any better bit of client software for running/playing adrift games? TIA Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustrations with the blind gaming community
Hi Raul, Right, not designed specifically for the blind. Audyssey issues read; Welcome to the twelfth issue of Audyssey. This magazine is dedicated to the discussion of games which, either by accident or design, are accessible to the blind. So I guess that it is somewhat up to each of us to decide if a game is accessible. You know how much sighted help, guess work and memorization we are willing to use and still call a game accessible. BFN Jim Oh well, half of one, six dozen of the other. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
But where does it ever say that blind people can't use the mouse? Especially for gaming? I myself play judgement day with the mouse all the time... I find it a lot more streamlined and easier to control, actually. At 10:44 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: it is a device for sighted people. Yes I have mouse games but hardly play them. I have barely enough space for the mouse. A --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Just catching up on the deluge, and there's very little I can add from the point of view of the mainstream players that hasn't already been said in one way or another. thought someone should chime in though to point out that, even though it's clearly not the case on Planet Everiss, considerations of which devices can or can't be used efficiently by blind gamers the world over might go a bit deeper than what Shaun can fit on his desk. I totally understand the financial issues of acquiring a console and staying current as new games are released for it. I get why that comes up over and over again in these threads. The space thing though? Utterly baffled. Scott On 2/9/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: it is a device for sighted people. Yes I have mouse games but hardly play them. I have barely enough space for the mouse. At 05:30 p.m. 9/02/2011, you wrote: Yup. well put guys. Most people on here assume oh this is a video game, therefore I must have sight to play or to get full enjoyment out of it, which isn't actually true. I get 100% enjoyment out of games I play. If I didn't, why would I play them? It's like the whole mouse issue when audiogames with mice support came out. oh the mouse is a device for sighted people only. why would a blind person use a mouse? it can't be done, etc, which of course was the wrong assumption. From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones Hi Raul, This is exactly the attitude I think Yohandi and Orin would like to see on this list. I myself wouldn't mind seeing it, but I, like you, feel everyone is entitled to what they think. I can name all sorts of games that I play which are not designed specifically for the blind... all the cards, Chess, etc... but I have much the same view as you do. If I enjoy a game, I'll do whatever I can to milk as much enjoyment out of it as I possibly can. And the same applies for console games. On no game case or console box does it say blind people aren't allowed to use them or will get less out of them than any other average person. We haven't lost anything, in my opinion. If anything, we work our brains more by working strategies and memorizing things based off stuff other than just visual cues, but rather some mental calculations on our own part. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
You'd have to combine a few games to come up with something like Grand Theft Tank because I don't have a driver's license, even though, so far, I've never had an auto accident. (grin) --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
My Strat plays and sounds better than any Guitar Hero instrument, and is more fun to not only play, but to feel the power of a healthy E chord through even my little 2-channel Sears Silvertone amp with 2 12-inch woofers. An old piggy-back tube amp out of the middle sixties. And, as mentioned previously, in Guitar Hero, improvisation caused mistakes to be registered. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Pro mode, maybe. But keep in mind that even with pro mode the feeling isn't the same. I don't deny what you said about the game being positive. But that wasn't the point of Charles's post. The general sentiment is, playing real guitar / drums is a lot more fun than rock band, and while I like both, I have to agree with him. I prefer my trusty LTD electric guitar. At 05:03 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, how about the pro mode feature? I'd say that's bridging the gap between a gamer and a musician quite well. Even if playing real instruments is more fun for you, what's wrong with also playing the game? There are plenty of drummers/guitarists etc that play Rock Band all the time. in fact, most people that can 100% the higher tier songs on expert without even trying are real musicians. There are also people that aren't musicians at all that come over and play rock band, and when they started they had no idea what a harmony was, their rhythm was completely off, and they were extremely terrible at the game. now some of them can point out harmonies when they hear one and can play on expert. so I think the game's definitely having some positive effects on people and calling it merely a game is a bit unfair. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Sorry Yohandi, but in terms of rhythm games, I'd have to agree with Charles. Especially being a musician, it's much more appealing to bust out my guitar, turn on the amp and just blast away. I can improvize without being penalized, even... action games are something completely different. Playing music in real life won't get you charged for crime. At 04:38 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Nope. Because there's two sounds. There's one for the sound of the blow moving, and then there's the sound when it connects. Two different things, but the point of case then is to stay out of punching range. Prevent it from happening in the first place. If the opponent is jumping towards you, which means you hear the sound for a jump, odds are he's going to try an overhead kick. So block that overhead and while he's still recovering hit him with a few jabs or a special move. It's that kind of thing that blind players have to rely on... we can't see them jumping in, so we have to listen just that little degree more. At 11:22 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
However, one of the main tools to form that strategy is missing. Namely, vision. Hence the very reason they are called video?? games. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones Hi Raul, This is exactly the attitude I think Yohandi and Orin would like to see on this list. I myself wouldn't mind seeing it, but I, like you, feel everyone is entitled to what they think. I can name all sorts of games that I play which are not designed specifically for the blind... all the cards, Chess, etc... but I have much the same view as you do. If I enjoy a game, I'll do whatever I can to milk as much enjoyment out of it as I possibly can. And the same applies for console games. On no game case or console box does it say blind people aren't allowed to use them or will get less out of them than any other average person. We haven't lost anything, in my opinion. If anything, we work our brains more by working strategies and memorizing things based off stuff other than just visual cues, but rather some mental calculations on our own part. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
It does indeed mean that the punch has already landed, but that'd be the same in an accessible version of the same game, or even in real life would it not? Given that you've missed the chance to defend by that point, it'd be time to either retreat or counter, and being able to tell which attacks your opponent is launching, how close they'd need to be to launch those attacks, the speed and individual fighting styles of the characters in the game and gamers holding the controllers are all contributing factors. Luckily, footsteps, dashes, specials and the like often have sound cues associated with them nowadays, so a gamer who's done their homework can often defend before hearing that punch land, which was what you were asking I think. True, you need quick reactions, but no quicker than the sighted person who's just jumped back to avoid your attack or blocked your combo. They didn't see that coming any sooner than you would've heard it if the roles were reversed. It hasn't always been the case, but in this particular genre, it's very possible now for blind people to be aware of their surroundings and their opponents actions, so it's no longer about who attacks hardest. I'm not knocking your taste in games at all, if beat 'em ups aren't your thing then that's one less person who's waiting in line to beat me lol. As far as actual mastery of the in-game action goes though, it's possible to be good at them now as a blind gamer, that's what I'm getting at. On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
You explained it in a minute whereas I would've probably taken 5 minutes to write that out... I can do it, but I can't explain it that well. Thanks Scott. This is precisely what we have to be aware of... and would you believe it? This helps us to be aware in every day life as well. I'm an aspiring martial artist, and although my martial art is mainly solo practice... there are partnered forms in which blows are exchanged and countered. I find myself able to block more precisely and accurately because of my experience with fighting games... and I can predict the blow quite accurately. The partnered forms are pre-arranged, so it is one strike for one block. However when the strike happens is not determined... and you cannot block before the cut actually begins. For anyone who's wondering what kind of insane art this seems to sound like... I practice iaido, which is a japanese sword art. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
In your examples, Bop It is a game played using sound rather than vision. How many chess programs or versions in a video format can a totally blind person play? The majority of mainstream games rely on sight to be played as they are intended. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Raul A. Gallegos r...@asmodean.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:46 PM Subject: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones It's interesting the 100 plus messages on this topic. Even though I'm totally blind, I'm not turned off by the idea of playing a mainstream game. It's not a given that a blind person can't fully enjoy a game designed for the sighted. Throwing out the examples of console games, let's take a simple game like, oh, umm, Bop-It. Whether you get this game as an app in your iPhone or iPod Touch, or whether you have the hand-held version, no where does it specifically say that's it's specifically for blind people. So those of you who say you don't like to be reminded about what you have lost or what you don't have, does that mean you wouldn't enjoy Bop-It just because it's not called Bop-It for the Blind? Another example is Dominos. Again, the same question applies. There are many different Domino games one can play, and again, it's not called Dominos for the Blind. How about Connect 4? Checkers? Chess? Poker? 5000 plus more card games? None of those are specifically for the blind. Bottom line, and yes, I know this is just an opinion, and like bodily orifices, everyone has one, is that games are games. Pure and simple, nothing more, nothing less. If the game is playable by me personally, whether I have to modify it a little or memorize a sequence of things to do, then I'll play it. Many thanks. -- Raul A. Gallegos http://www.asmodean.net --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustrations with the blind gaming community
Guitar hero and rock band have no such thing as improvization... because there are no notes to improvize with. Just five buttons arranged horrizontally. Solos that I would have no problem with in real life give me trouble in rock band.. because playing guitar is too much like piano. I'm not a guitar virtuoso by any means, but take something like Bon Jovi's livin' on a prayer. In reality with my ltd and a roland 30 wat amp, I can hammer that solo out to something that sounds pretty good. In rock band on expert I'm lucky if I hit 9 out of 20 notes. At 11:34 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Block quote start My Strat plays and sounds better than any Guitar Hero instrument, and is more fun to not only play, but to feel the power of a healthy E chord through even my little 2-channel Sears Silvertone amp with 2 12-inch woofers. An old piggy-back tube amp out of the middle sixties. And, as mentioned previously, in Guitar Hero, improvisation caused mistakes to be registered. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Hi Shaun, That's absolute non-sense. The mouse is not just a device for sighted people. There are screen readers, for example, working towards intigrating real mouse support into the screen reader. Plus there are a number of aaccessible games like Rail Racer, Judgment Day, Mysteries of the Ancients, etc that have mouse support. So lets stop the bull and get down to facts for a change. Further more, the world doesn't revolve around how much space is or is not on Shaun's desk. Cheers! On 2/9/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: it is a device for sighted people. Yes I have mouse games but hardly play them. I have barely enough space for the mouse. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Couldn't've put it better myself... but I didn't want to be the one to say it. lol. At 06:53 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Shaun, That's absolute non-sense. The mouse is not just a device for sighted people. There are screen readers, for example, working towards intigrating real mouse support into the screen reader. Plus there are a number of aaccessible games like Rail Racer, Judgment Day, Mysteries of the Ancients, etc that have mouse support. So lets stop the bull and get down to facts for a change. Further more, the world doesn't revolve around how much space is or is not on Shaun's desk. Cheers! On 2/9/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: it is a device for sighted people. Yes I have mouse games but hardly play them. I have barely enough space for the mouse. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat.
Hey Phil, you forgot one: their guide dogs give them good competition. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:13 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat. Ten reasons why blind people play Mortal Kombat. 10. They like to try new games even if they are difficult. 9. All their friends and family are playing the game and they don't want to be left out. 8. They like to play with joy sticks, and don't care how many points they score. 7. They got no distractions because they don't see lights a flashin'. 6. Scoring zero points wins you a trophy. 5. They love the way their character screams when they lose. 4. At least they can beet their grandma in the game. 3. The game gives their fingers lots of exercise. 2. A blind boy did rack up the highest score in Pacman. And the number 1 reason why blind people play Mortal Kombat, They're just super blinks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
That is true. However, Quake's been adapted and modified to suit us... whereas the games we're talking about have not. At 07:19 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
Hi everyone, As moderator and an interested party I've read almost everything written on the frustrated with the blind gaming community topic and it seams to me one of the biggest issues here is clear cut communication between those who are in the know and those who aren't. There are a lot of myths expressed by many of the VI gamers who don't have any experience with mainstream games. I'd say most if not all of the myths are based on ignorance of what the other side is trying to say. For example, let's take the term vidio game. One person said that the word vidio meant that you had to have sight to play these games because the word vidio is a visual term. This is not necessarily true. To start with obviously vidio games have graphics and animation. However, that isn't the beginning and ending of the game. There are sounds, music, etc that have become extremely realistic over the past ten to fifteen years or so. This means as things like 3d audio have advanced and games use wav files instead of beeps and so on it has made it more possible for us to listen carefully and play a number of games through sound. Nobody is saying this is easy, but that it is possible. The second issue is types of games. It is not really possible to pick up a first-person or third-person vidio game and begin playing it by sound because of complex level layouts, too many items to find/pick up, and over all it is just very very complex to manage without sight. Although, I have actually done it after an insane amount of practice. However, this doesn't mean there aren't vidio games we can't just pick up and play. There are wrestling games like Smackdown VS Raw that is fairly playable without sight. There are the music games like Guitar Hero and Rockband that can be played with some practice. There are fighting games like DC VS Mortal Kombat that are fairly accessible to play with some practice at it. There is a very good reason why the fighting genre of games in particular are fairly accessible to play by a blind individual. First, someone said, it isn't very strategic to keep punching when the enemy is on the ground. That wouldn't happen for one very good reason. In a fighting game you can hear the enemy fall and hit the ground. If you know what that sounds like you aren't going to stand there mindlessly kicking and punching thin air. You'll know they are on the ground by the sound he/she makes when they fall. Okay? The second issue is someone said, if you have already been punched you can't block it. Again this indicates ignorence of how advanced these fighting games are. There are actually two attack sounds. There is the sound of the punch, kick, whatever coming and there is the sound of it connecting with your body. If you are paying attention, listening carefully, you can hear the attack coming and either attempt to dodge it or block it in some way. In this way even though you can't physically see the attack coming on screen there is plenty of audio queues to give you advanced warning of what is happening. Basically, what I'm saying is the main reason guys like Yohandy are into playing these fighting games is it can be done, and there is plenty of audio queues and sounds to make it more than possible to do totally blind. It is cases like this were vidio has nothing to do with weather or not you can play it because the audio really is fairly equal to what is happening on screen. Finally, there is the issue of menus and things like that. Yeah, this is something of a hastle. It takes a bit of memorization, but there are work arounds. One way is simply to take a sheet of braille paper, put it in your brailler, and type up a list of what every menu item is for this or that game. Sure it isn't as straight forward as a talking menu, but it is an easy work around for a problem. One way I look at this is to look at it this way. How many times have you gone to a regular store like K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc and purchased a standard board game like Monopoly or picked up a deck of playing cards, taken it home, and brailled up the game. I've done it many many times. I never purchase games through Independant Living aids, because I can do exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost with a braille writer and a roll of dimo tape in most cases. This is what I mean by there are work arounds. All of us are blind living in a sighted world. Most of us by now have figured out if we want to do something bad enough it can be done. I'm not saying playing mainstream games like Street Fighter, DC VS Mortal Kombat, etc is for everybody. No, I know it is not. However, for those who are a bit curious, perhaps interested at looking at it, you should give it a try. For those who aren't interested, but constantly make uneducated comments like, I don't want to stand there punching at air while the enemy is on the ground, please stop. All you are doing is muddying the water with your uneducated point of view. To make it clear if you don't have
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Could you play it before it had been modified? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
Thomas, you rule On 2/9/11, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, As moderator and an interested party I've read almost everything written on the frustrated with the blind gaming community topic and it seams to me one of the biggest issues here is clear cut communication between those who are in the know and those who aren't. There are a lot of myths expressed by many of the VI gamers who don't have any experience with mainstream games. I'd say most if not all of the myths are based on ignorance of what the other side is trying to say. For example, let's take the term vidio game. One person said that the word vidio meant that you had to have sight to play these games because the word vidio is a visual term. This is not necessarily true. To start with obviously vidio games have graphics and animation. However, that isn't the beginning and ending of the game. There are sounds, music, etc that have become extremely realistic over the past ten to fifteen years or so. This means as things like 3d audio have advanced and games use wav files instead of beeps and so on it has made it more possible for us to listen carefully and play a number of games through sound. Nobody is saying this is easy, but that it is possible. The second issue is types of games. It is not really possible to pick up a first-person or third-person vidio game and begin playing it by sound because of complex level layouts, too many items to find/pick up, and over all it is just very very complex to manage without sight. Although, I have actually done it after an insane amount of practice. However, this doesn't mean there aren't vidio games we can't just pick up and play. There are wrestling games like Smackdown VS Raw that is fairly playable without sight. There are the music games like Guitar Hero and Rockband that can be played with some practice. There are fighting games like DC VS Mortal Kombat that are fairly accessible to play with some practice at it. There is a very good reason why the fighting genre of games in particular are fairly accessible to play by a blind individual. First, someone said, it isn't very strategic to keep punching when the enemy is on the ground. That wouldn't happen for one very good reason. In a fighting game you can hear the enemy fall and hit the ground. If you know what that sounds like you aren't going to stand there mindlessly kicking and punching thin air. You'll know they are on the ground by the sound he/she makes when they fall. Okay? The second issue is someone said, if you have already been punched you can't block it. Again this indicates ignorence of how advanced these fighting games are. There are actually two attack sounds. There is the sound of the punch, kick, whatever coming and there is the sound of it connecting with your body. If you are paying attention, listening carefully, you can hear the attack coming and either attempt to dodge it or block it in some way. In this way even though you can't physically see the attack coming on screen there is plenty of audio queues to give you advanced warning of what is happening. Basically, what I'm saying is the main reason guys like Yohandy are into playing these fighting games is it can be done, and there is plenty of audio queues and sounds to make it more than possible to do totally blind. It is cases like this were vidio has nothing to do with weather or not you can play it because the audio really is fairly equal to what is happening on screen. Finally, there is the issue of menus and things like that. Yeah, this is something of a hastle. It takes a bit of memorization, but there are work arounds. One way is simply to take a sheet of braille paper, put it in your brailler, and type up a list of what every menu item is for this or that game. Sure it isn't as straight forward as a talking menu, but it is an easy work around for a problem. One way I look at this is to look at it this way. How many times have you gone to a regular store like K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc and purchased a standard board game like Monopoly or picked up a deck of playing cards, taken it home, and brailled up the game. I've done it many many times. I never purchase games through Independant Living aids, because I can do exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost with a braille writer and a roll of dimo tape in most cases. This is what I mean by there are work arounds. All of us are blind living in a sighted world. Most of us by now have figured out if we want to do something bad enough it can be done. I'm not saying playing mainstream games like Street Fighter, DC VS Mortal Kombat, etc is for everybody. No, I know it is not. However, for those who are a bit curious, perhaps interested at looking at it, you should give it a try. For those who aren't interested, but constantly make uneducated comments like, I don't want to stand there punching at air while the
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** and level layouts are huge. At 07:48 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Could you play it before it had been modified? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Remember that Quake is a mainstream game. Lots of folks still play it too. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I'd love for this to happen actually. I'd do it myself if I could program. people need some exposure to the types of mainstream games out there. I wonder if BGT could handle such a project? Clement, you know anything about programming? perhaps you could write one *grin*. I think if such a game was programmed, a lot of people would buy it. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. I agree... we just aren't a big enough market. But to settle this debate... let me ask everybody this. Whatever side of the argument you were on. If someone pulled a capcom and made a full-fledged, mainstream quality audio fighting game, with no additional audio except naration in the menus and character selection screens, would you play it? If so, why? If not, why not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
All very wel said, Tom. Having read that, I know that fighting games aren't for everyone. But for the curious, it is a good place to start, and once you do start, you might find that fighting games have a lot more depth and replayability that you don't imagine would be there when you first start out. I remember... the first game I ever played. A fighting game. It was super street fighter 2 turbo, on the snes. 1997... at the age of 5. I still remember mashing buttons trying to get attacks to land, and having nothing work. When I did my first fireball and heard it connect... man was I extatic. lol. But having said that, I've grown up on fighting games, and it's become something of a passion. Games like this are overlooked... frankly because the concept of two people slugging it out isn't very complicated, on the surface. But there are so many types of fighting games with different fighting engines it gets complex and is a fun thing to try and learn all of them. And Tom, what you said about menus is also a good point. Let me mention again.. import games. I'm a huge fan of them, and especially with a ps3 that is region-free I can get any fighting game from whatever region. Usually this means Japan. Now, most major fighting games have english menus... but there are many that are in Japanese, and in those instances, sighted people have to find translations on the internet, and anotate them somehow. In that case, they're as blind as we are... pardon the expression. Not being able to read the language is just as good as not knowing what menu items are because we can't see them. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] timed locks
Hi Dark, Lol! That must have been great. I'm surprised Darth Usher didn't whip out his own Sith light saber and battle the Jedi Knights to a stand still. Grin. On 2/8/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well Tom, through some wangling on the part of my friend jay, I did end up at the first midnight showing of revenge of the syth, which was actually fun because! of the nuts. I wouldn't have naturally gone at that time myself, but it was quite an experience being in a cinema with loads of people in costume. What was particularly great was when three people all in jedi robes whipped out light sabers and began a three way fight before the film started. Sadly the usher came and broke this up after a minute on health and safety grounds, at which point the entire cinema (me included), gave the spoil sport darth usher a good chorus of the emperial march ;D. That was actually rather fun, just for the atmosphere and experience, with people booing the baddies and cheering the goodies, even though I'm not really that much of a starwars nut myself. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
This is what I expect if I am going to go to the trouble of learning to play *any* game, whether it is specifically created or adapted for the blind or not. The game needs to have sufficient complexity, changeability and depth that it is an intellectual challenge to me, more than just a memorization of sequences, environments and the like, but constantly evolving tactical and/or strategic choices that are different every time I play the game. I expect to be able to make full use of the information the game provides, whether that information is specifically designed to be accessed by sound, braille or not. If playing against an AI, I want it to be able to be unpredictable at least to some extent. If there are elements that are passed to the player visually, I want there to be sound analogs that provide the same depth and speed of information as the visual player would receive. What it comes down to for me is that I'm picky as hell; have a limited amount of time to spend on games, so I demand that a game provide me the maximal entertainment value per unit effort put forth that I can have. I am prepared to be taught that there are mainstream video games that might fulfill these rather stringent requirements. Among accessible games I have played or tried, only Lone Wolf and the new release of Time of Conflict coming up fit them squarely, meaning no disrespect to other developers; I'm not the target audience for some of you, and while I have great personal respect for Thomas Ward, MOTA is not my cup of tea, though if he ever updates his STFC game, it will likely come a lot closer to my own tastes and complexity/replayability standards. I played the Savage Gambit for a while, until I mastered the hand-ear coordination necessary to beat every opponent without fail. I'm done with that game. Alien Outback was a very nice bit of nostalgia from when I used to play Space Invaders on other people's Atari consoles with a few bonuses, but again, once you've mastered the basics, the rest is just speed of reaction. So, when a mainstream game that is an in-depth strategic or tactical simulation, as opposed to a first-person shooter comes out that provides the level of sound access I expect, I'll very likely be in line to buy the first copy. Until then I'll be making TOC maps/unit sets and trying them out. Look for a Gettysburg campaign scenario, and perhaps a theater-level Russian Front game using David Greenwood's fine game engine hopefully some time in the next six months, or whenever he releases it to the public. Christopher Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
Hi, I actually have a piano. I also have a violin, but I never ever got trained to use one. In year 3, I got trained to use a drum. Probably for a turm, I couldn't aford it. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. why play GTA, when you can actually steal cars and beat up people in real life? Why play Mortal kombat? might as well do real fatalities since that'll be way more realistic. oh and tank commander? c'mon, use a real tank! much more fun that way - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. About a game like Guitar Hero, I ask: Why pretend when you can do it for real? I would rather plug my electric guitar into my amp, crank the volume up on my computer or stereo speakers, put in a CD or tape, and play along with my favorites, or work on learning a new one, or jam with other musicians than use something artificial. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Yeah but here's the thing. how will you know if you can play it when you actually aren't even willing to try the game out? just because a sighted person tells you so? I had sighted people telling me oh you can't play rock band, so don't even bother purchasing it. you gotta see the colored games. well, I'm playing rock band. and to those asking how do I play it when I'm blind, I won't even bother answering that question, mainly because we've answered it plenty of times and it makes absolutely no difference. Isn't it quite obvious that video games have sound? do you guys somehow think that just cause it's called a video game this means that it's video exclusive and a totally muted gaming experience? *sigh*. someone mentioned they don't play rock band because they're musicians. all I gotta say to that is wow. I really hope you don't always have that outlook on life. - Original Message - From: Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity. Hi Liam, I totally agree. If I know there is a game out there that a blind person can play that may indeed be intended for sighted players, then I am willing to give it 100% concentration. Hell, I would even go out and buy the console it was designed for, just to play that game. But if you can't play it, because you need a degree of sight, then what is the point in wasting investments and time just to completely end up embarrassing yourself with it because you can't play properly like your sighted peers can? In my opinion that's just prejudice. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Hi Chris. you said: The game needs to have sufficient complexity, changeability and depth that it is an intellectual challenge to me, more than just a memorization of sequences, environments and the like, but constantly evolving tactical and/or strategic choices that are different every time I play the game. I This in fairness actually describes fighting games very well. Taking the savage gambit as a representation of what a mainstrem, complex fighting game such as streetfighter is like would be like assuming that a formular one racing car is like a wheel barrow. Any decent beat em up on a console has far more than memorization involved. Firstly, there is always a distance betwene you and your opponent, and you must be aware of the best way of crossing that distance in order to attack them, indeed some characters may be better fighting at a distance due to having moves such as projectiles, while others may have special ways of crossing that distance like charge attacks or blying at their opponent. Then, the distance involved is not just forward and back, but also vertical. Do you attack your opponent's head or feet? do you jump in or walk? and if you jump, how high? Then, there is the question of what type of attack. In most beat em ups, your character will have at least four, usually as many as six or eight, standard attacks such as punches and kicks. these all have different range, different priority over your opponent's moves, and may work better or wose depending upon the situation, for instance, a slow, sweeping attack on the ground may be more useful when your opponent is already recovering from a hit. Then there are even more moves, either moves which activate or become useable in different situations, such as pressing forward and punch when your opponent is close to throw them, or special moves which have different principles and may be activated by a combination of things, eg, fireballs. There is then the question of blocking or parrying, and how you may counter your opponent when you've blocked their attack, indeed certain characters are better at defense than attack. Then, there is the question of how fast your character moves (again, a very variable property). Bare in mind these moves differ for each character in the game, and thus the situations you have are nearly endless. And what I have just described covers only the most basic aspects of a fighting game, indeed it barely covers street fighter 2 released in 1992, let alone some of the more modern games where characters have hundreds of moves and even (when you get to blazblu and similar games), their own playing styles with different stances, uses of the controller etc. My brother is a great player of strategic and systematic games such as chess, and at the same time he is a huge fighting game fan, -there is a very good reason for this. So, this should at least let people know how complex the average modern beat em up actually is. Personally, I am slightly more picky in the beat em ups I play, and prefer those with serious plot and atmosphere such as soul calibur, over things like smackdown vs raw, but certainly it's not because of a lack of complexity. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
I agreed with you completely. I played video game since I was 6 years old. The sound of it is help me to know where and when to punch. I even play Resident evil games. I realize on the sounds and the music. A lot of people ask me how can I do it. I told them it's hard to explain all the details. I said, All I can tell you guys is I listening to all different sounds that they make. Just like all the card games out there. I brought it from Wal-Mart braille it out too. Tommy - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:47 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games Hi everyone, As moderator and an interested party I've read almost everything written on the frustrated with the blind gaming community topic and it seams to me one of the biggest issues here is clear cut communication between those who are in the know and those who aren't. There are a lot of myths expressed by many of the VI gamers who don't have any experience with mainstream games. I'd say most if not all of the myths are based on ignorance of what the other side is trying to say. For example, let's take the term vidio game. One person said that the word vidio meant that you had to have sight to play these games because the word vidio is a visual term. This is not necessarily true. To start with obviously vidio games have graphics and animation. However, that isn't the beginning and ending of the game. There are sounds, music, etc that have become extremely realistic over the past ten to fifteen years or so. This means as things like 3d audio have advanced and games use wav files instead of beeps and so on it has made it more possible for us to listen carefully and play a number of games through sound. Nobody is saying this is easy, but that it is possible. The second issue is types of games. It is not really possible to pick up a first-person or third-person vidio game and begin playing it by sound because of complex level layouts, too many items to find/pick up, and over all it is just very very complex to manage without sight. Although, I have actually done it after an insane amount of practice. However, this doesn't mean there aren't vidio games we can't just pick up and play. There are wrestling games like Smackdown VS Raw that is fairly playable without sight. There are the music games like Guitar Hero and Rockband that can be played with some practice. There are fighting games like DC VS Mortal Kombat that are fairly accessible to play with some practice at it. There is a very good reason why the fighting genre of games in particular are fairly accessible to play by a blind individual. First, someone said, it isn't very strategic to keep punching when the enemy is on the ground. That wouldn't happen for one very good reason. In a fighting game you can hear the enemy fall and hit the ground. If you know what that sounds like you aren't going to stand there mindlessly kicking and punching thin air. You'll know they are on the ground by the sound he/she makes when they fall. Okay? The second issue is someone said, if you have already been punched you can't block it. Again this indicates ignorence of how advanced these fighting games are. There are actually two attack sounds. There is the sound of the punch, kick, whatever coming and there is the sound of it connecting with your body. If you are paying attention, listening carefully, you can hear the attack coming and either attempt to dodge it or block it in some way. In this way even though you can't physically see the attack coming on screen there is plenty of audio queues to give you advanced warning of what is happening. Basically, what I'm saying is the main reason guys like Yohandy are into playing these fighting games is it can be done, and there is plenty of audio queues and sounds to make it more than possible to do totally blind. It is cases like this were vidio has nothing to do with weather or not you can play it because the audio really is fairly equal to what is happening on screen. Finally, there is the issue of menus and things like that. Yeah, this is something of a hastle. It takes a bit of memorization, but there are work arounds. One way is simply to take a sheet of braille paper, put it in your brailler, and type up a list of what every menu item is for this or that game. Sure it isn't as straight forward as a talking menu, but it is an easy work around for a problem. One way I look at this is to look at it this way. How many times have you gone to a regular store like K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc and purchased a standard board game like Monopoly or picked up a deck of playing cards, taken it home, and brailled up the game. I've done it many many times. I never purchase games through Independant Living aids, because I can do exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost with a braille writer and a roll of dimo
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. It does indeed mean that the punch has already landed, but that'd be the same in an accessible version of the same game, or even in real life would it not? Given that you've missed the chance to defend by that point, it'd be time to either retreat or counter, and being able to tell which attacks your opponent is launching, how close they'd need to be to launch those attacks, the speed and individual fighting styles of the characters in the game and gamers holding the controllers are all contributing factors. Luckily, footsteps, dashes, specials and the like often have sound cues associated with them nowadays, so a gamer who's done their homework can often defend before hearing that punch land, which was what you were asking I think. True, you need quick reactions, but no quicker than the sighted person who's just jumped back to avoid your attack or blocked your combo. They didn't see that coming any sooner than you would've heard it if the roles were reversed. It hasn't always been the case, but in this particular genre, it's very possible now for blind people to be aware of their surroundings and their opponents actions, so it's no longer about who attacks hardest. I'm not knocking your taste in games at all, if beat 'em ups aren't your thing then that's one less person who's waiting in line to beat me lol. As far as actual mastery of the in-game action goes though, it's possible to be good at them now as a blind gamer, that's what I'm getting at. On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
Hi all, catching up on the flood of stuff about this as best I can, don't have too much to add here other than well said, Thomas! I couldn't've put it any better. If the mainstream gaming thing isn't your thing that's perfectly fine, map based strategy games, card games and turn based games aren't my thing and that's perfectly fine. But don't limit yourself without at least finding out. I totally understand somebody not wanting to drop 300 bucks on a ps3 without knowing if they like mainstream games or not, I've been playing mainstream games as a total for going on 30 years so was pretty sure I wanted one so saved my nickels for a year and bought it. However, you can pick up a ps2 pretty cheap even at gamestop or something and if you find you don't like it you can sell it and probably get all or just about all of your money back. There's room enough for all of us, I like my audio games too, I am really looking forward to MOTA coming out but I do like my mainstream titles as well, they tend to come out a little more often and there are frankly no similar games to them in the strictly audio genre. So let's all just get along peeps. There's no reason whatsoever not to. Game on. Tom -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games Hi everyone, As moderator and an interested party I've read almost everything written on the frustrated with the blind gaming community topic and it seams to me one of the biggest issues here is clear cut communication between those who are in the know and those who aren't. There are a lot of myths expressed by many of the VI gamers who don't have any experience with mainstream games. I'd say most if not all of the myths are based on ignorance of what the other side is trying to say. For example, let's take the term vidio game. One person said that the word vidio meant that you had to have sight to play these games because the word vidio is a visual term. This is not necessarily true. To start with obviously vidio games have graphics and animation. However, that isn't the beginning and ending of the game. There are sounds, music, etc that have become extremely realistic over the past ten to fifteen years or so. This means as things like 3d audio have advanced and games use wav files instead of beeps and so on it has made it more possible for us to listen carefully and play a number of games through sound. Nobody is saying this is easy, but that it is possible. The second issue is types of games. It is not really possible to pick up a first-person or third-person vidio game and begin playing it by sound because of complex level layouts, too many items to find/pick up, and over all it is just very very complex to manage without sight. Although, I have actually done it after an insane amount of practice. However, this doesn't mean there aren't vidio games we can't just pick up and play. There are wrestling games like Smackdown VS Raw that is fairly playable without sight. There are the music games like Guitar Hero and Rockband that can be played with some practice. There are fighting games like DC VS Mortal Kombat that are fairly accessible to play with some practice at it. There is a very good reason why the fighting genre of games in particular are fairly accessible to play by a blind individual. First, someone said, it isn't very strategic to keep punching when the enemy is on the ground. That wouldn't happen for one very good reason. In a fighting game you can hear the enemy fall and hit the ground. If you know what that sounds like you aren't going to stand there mindlessly kicking and punching thin air. You'll know they are on the ground by the sound he/she makes when they fall. Okay? The second issue is someone said, if you have already been punched you can't block it. Again this indicates ignorence of how advanced these fighting games are. There are actually two attack sounds. There is the sound of the punch, kick, whatever coming and there is the sound of it connecting with your body. If you are paying attention, listening carefully, you can hear the attack coming and either attempt to dodge it or block it in some way. In this way even though you can't physically see the attack coming on screen there is plenty of audio queues to give you advanced warning of what is happening. Basically, what I'm saying is the main reason guys like Yohandy are into playing these fighting games is it can be done, and there is plenty of audio queues and sounds to make it more than possible to do totally blind. It is cases like this were vidio has nothing to do with weather or not you can play it because the audio really is fairly equal to what is happening on screen. Finally, there is the issue of menus and things like that. Yeah, this is something of a hastle. It
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
Thanks. You made sense. A game designed for the blind came immediately to mind as I heard your description. Some of the mainstream games would sound like a more realistic, very much more advanced version of the fight in the bar in the original ESP Pinball Classic. You block a punch when you hear it coming rather than, ouch!, too late! --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:47 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games Hi everyone, As moderator and an interested party I've read almost everything written on the frustrated with the blind gaming community topic and it seams to me one of the biggest issues here is clear cut communication between those who are in the know and those who aren't. There are a lot of myths expressed by many of the VI gamers who don't have any experience with mainstream games. I'd say most if not all of the myths are based on ignorance of what the other side is trying to say. For example, let's take the term vidio game. One person said that the word vidio meant that you had to have sight to play these games because the word vidio is a visual term. This is not necessarily true. To start with obviously vidio games have graphics and animation. However, that isn't the beginning and ending of the game. There are sounds, music, etc that have become extremely realistic over the past ten to fifteen years or so. This means as things like 3d audio have advanced and games use wav files instead of beeps and so on it has made it more possible for us to listen carefully and play a number of games through sound. Nobody is saying this is easy, but that it is possible. The second issue is types of games. It is not really possible to pick up a first-person or third-person vidio game and begin playing it by sound because of complex level layouts, too many items to find/pick up, and over all it is just very very complex to manage without sight. Although, I have actually done it after an insane amount of practice. However, this doesn't mean there aren't vidio games we can't just pick up and play. There are wrestling games like Smackdown VS Raw that is fairly playable without sight. There are the music games like Guitar Hero and Rockband that can be played with some practice. There are fighting games like DC VS Mortal Kombat that are fairly accessible to play with some practice at it. There is a very good reason why the fighting genre of games in particular are fairly accessible to play by a blind individual. First, someone said, it isn't very strategic to keep punching when the enemy is on the ground. That wouldn't happen for one very good reason. In a fighting game you can hear the enemy fall and hit the ground. If you know what that sounds like you aren't going to stand there mindlessly kicking and punching thin air. You'll know they are on the ground by the sound he/she makes when they fall. Okay? The second issue is someone said, if you have already been punched you can't block it. Again this indicates ignorence of how advanced these fighting games are. There are actually two attack sounds. There is the sound of the punch, kick, whatever coming and there is the sound of it connecting with your body. If you are paying attention, listening carefully, you can hear the attack coming and either attempt to dodge it or block it in some way. In this way even though you can't physically see the attack coming on screen there is plenty of audio queues to give you advanced warning of what is happening. Basically, what I'm saying is the main reason guys like Yohandy are into playing these fighting games is it can be done, and there is plenty of audio queues and sounds to make it more than possible to do totally blind. It is cases like this were vidio has nothing to do with weather or not you can play it because the audio really is fairly equal to what is happening on screen. Finally, there is the issue of menus and things like that. Yeah, this is something of a hastle. It takes a bit of memorization, but there are work arounds. One way is simply to take a sheet of braille paper, put it in your brailler, and type up a list of what every menu item is for this or that game. Sure it isn't as straight forward as a talking menu, but it is an easy work around for a problem. One way I look at this is to look at it this way. How many times have you gone to a regular store like K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc and purchased a standard board game like Monopoly or picked up a deck of playing cards, taken it home, and brailled up the game. I've done it many many times. I never purchase games through Independant Living aids, because I can do exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost with a braille writer and a roll of dimo tape in most cases. This is what I mean by there are
[Audyssey] New Website to help developers improve accessibility in games
7-128 Software just released a new Web site, www.blindcomputergames.com It's an information resource that includes: ·A set of guidelines for developers who want to improve blind accessibility in their games ·An article for gamers who are blind to help them show developers how to make their games accessible to them ·Articles that give developers technical information, including code samples, to help them make their games accessible. For gamers, it gives the technical words they need to communicate with developers at companies, big and small. It explains who to talk to, what information the developer will need, and when in the development cycle to communicate with a developer and to have the best chance of obtaining the changes that will increase accessibility. For developers, it explains screen readers and self-voicing, and includes a blind accessibility checklist, some good example games, technical how to's, and a short guide to blind etiquette. It's totally free and requires no registration. The project took three months and was done at the request of and with the help of Dark, the administrator for www.audiogames.net http://www.audiogames.net/ and the leading advocate for blind gamers. He is frequently asked by developers, What would it take? Now he has a place to send them, and a place to send his readers who have a game or other software program that they can almost use. Although it is focused on games, much of the information is applicable to any software, not just games. Check it out! Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Clearing Up Some Myths About Mainstream Games
Hi Charles, That was basically my point. An accessible example of the kind of thing I'm talking about is ESP Whoop Ass. Obviously, that game is far simplar than the mainstream fighting games, but a similar concept applies here. In Whoop Ass you hear the punch coming from the left, right, or center and you can block it. Now, expand that idea to include hearing punches, kicks, jumps, and other attacks before they hit and you have the makings of an accessible fighting game. Just about every fighting game out there I can think of have the sound of the enemy attacking as in throwing a punch or kick, and then the sound of it landing if it hits you. Once you get adept at telling the start of a kick from a punch, hearing an enemy jumping, etc you can quite litterally devise a strategy to block or avoid that attack based on sound alone. HTH On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks. You made sense. A game designed for the blind came immediately to mind as I heard your description. Some of the mainstream games would sound like a more realistic, very much more advanced version of the fight in the bar in the original ESP Pinball Classic. You block a punch when you hear it coming rather than, ouch!, too late! --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
You could do it. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value ofmainstream fighting games.
Not easily or conveniently. That was the whole point he was trying to make. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value ofmainstream fighting games. You could do it. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play valueofmainstream fighting games.
Clement and I could always get online and try describing it as we fight. we can have each other block and jump etc and explain what's going on as we do it. I'm willing to try it if he's up to it. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play valueofmainstream fighting games. Not easily or conveniently. That was the whole point he was trying to make. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value ofmainstream fighting games. You could do it. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible client for running adrift IF games
no. I used scare a bit but again none of the games i played really got my interest so I made it all go away again. At 09:16 p.m. 9/02/2011, you wrote: Aside from using jaws cursor along with the adrift runner that came with a version of adrift 3.9 I downloaded recently, is there any better bit of client software for running/playing adrift games? TIA Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustrations with the blind gaming community
well if there are games I can play that are mainstream that are not out of circulation like silent steel etc I'd still be interested. I really want more games to play with my friends. We need more hybred games something with audio for us but that are graphically active to so the sighted can follow. At 11:26 p.m. 9/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Raul, Right, not designed specifically for the blind. Audyssey issues read; Welcome to the twelfth issue of Audyssey. This magazine is dedicated to the discussion of games which, either by accident or design, are accessible to the blind. So I guess that it is somewhat up to each of us to decide if a game is accessible. You know how much sighted help, guess work and memorization we are willing to use and still call a game accessible. BFN Jim Oh well, half of one, six dozen of the other. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] New Website to help developers improve accessibility in games
wow. I never knew ag.net was putting this on. At 07:32 a.m. 10/02/2011, you wrote: 7-128 Software just released a new Web site, www.blindcomputergames.com It's an information resource that includes: ·A set of guidelines for developers who want to improve blind accessibility in their games ·An article for gamers who are blind to help them show developers how to make their games accessible to them ·Articles that give developers technical information, including code samples, to help them make their games accessible. For gamers, it gives the technical words they need to communicate with developers at companies, big and small. It explains who to talk to, what information the developer will need, and when in the development cycle to communicate with a developer and to have the best chance of obtaining the changes that will increase accessibility. For developers, it explains screen readers and self-voicing, and includes a blind accessibility checklist, some good example games, technical how to's, and a short guide to blind etiquette. It's totally free and requires no registration. The project took three months and was done at the request of and with the help of Dark, the administrator for www.audiogames.net http://www.audiogames.net/ and the leading advocate for blind gamers. He is frequently asked by developers, What would it take? Now he has a place to send them, and a place to send his readers who have a game or other software program that they can almost use. Although it is focused on games, much of the information is applicable to any software, not just games. Check it out! Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 08:15:41AM -0600, Charles Rivard wrote: However, one of the main tools to form that strategy is missing. Namely, vision. Hence the very reason they are called video?? games. [My Reply:] On further thought, I've gone back over my memories of Soul Blade/Caliber, Tekken3, and the like, and the manuals have fairly well covered the menu structure. More than enough to get to the practice areas where you can practice moves and getting an immersion in the ways each move sounds. While I'd really miss the eye candy, and might not have a clue what a particular maneuver looks like, it certainly seems doable. I haven't a clue on how I'd go about playing something like Tomb Raider, though. A good 90% of what attracted me to the Tomb Raider series was the panoramic scenery and stark panic, like when the T-Rex pops it's big head around the cavern wall and comes barrelling down on you like a locomotive. Rewinds me why I didn't care for some aspects of the game. The unrealistic allocation of damage. You'd think a T-Rex would only have to bite you once for a game over, but nooo...the game lets you get bitten 3 or 4 times before you're down for the count. No missing limbs, no injury shock, no crippling effects...and it should delete all your saved games the moment you die, making you start over from scratch. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 09:48:43AM -0600, Charles Rivard wrote: Could you play it before it had been modified? [My Reply:] Heh. I can barely play it, even WITH the modifications. grins Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my frustration with the blind gaming comunity.
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 07:57:50AM -0800, Clement Chou wrote: No. Shooters are one of the genres blind people would have a bad time with.. simply because targetting would be a pain in the a** [My Reply:] Can't you just cycle through the targets with the Tab key? You might not have as much fun ricochetting a shell off a wall into a big crowd of monsters who start ripping each other apart rather than you , but hey. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value ofmainstream fighting games.
I tried making a recording of playing the Packman table in the first set of pinball tables that James North produced, describing what I was doing and what was going on as it was happening. It wasn't easy. Thomas Ward's message reminded me of that. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value ofmainstream fighting games. You could do it. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Well, strategy games for the mainstream market will definitely not fit those requirements. But fighting games fit the bill perfectly, I can guarantee you that. At 08:45 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: This is what I expect if I am going to go to the trouble of learning to play *any* game, whether it is specifically created or adapted for the blind or not. The game needs to have sufficient complexity, changeability and depth that it is an intellectual challenge to me, more than just a memorization of sequences, environments and the like, but constantly evolving tactical and/or strategic choices that are different every time I play the game. I expect to be able to make full use of the information the game provides, whether that information is specifically designed to be accessed by sound, braille or not. If playing against an AI, I want it to be able to be unpredictable at least to some extent. If there are elements that are passed to the player visually, I want there to be sound analogs that provide the same depth and speed of information as the visual player would receive. What it comes down to for me is that I'm picky as hell; have a limited amount of time to spend on games, so I demand that a game provide me the maximal entertainment value per unit effort put forth that I can have. I am prepared to be taught that there are mainstream video games that might fulfill these rather stringent requirements. Among accessible games I have played or tried, only Lone Wolf and the new release of Time of Conflict coming up fit them squarely, meaning no disrespect to other developers; I'm not the target audience for some of you, and while I have great personal respect for Thomas Ward, MOTA is not my cup of tea, though if he ever updates his STFC game, it will likely come a lot closer to my own tastes and complexity/replayability standards. I played the Savage Gambit for a while, until I mastered the hand-ear coordination necessary to beat every opponent without fail. I'm done with that game. Alien Outback was a very nice bit of nostalgia from when I used to play Space Invaders on other people's Atari consoles with a few bonuses, but again, once you've mastered the basics, the rest is just speed of reaction. So, when a mainstream game that is an in-depth strategic or tactical simulation, as opposed to a first-person shooter comes out that provides the level of sound access I expect, I'll very likely be in line to buy the first copy. Until then I'll be making TOC maps/unit sets and trying them out. Look for a Gettysburg campaign scenario, and perhaps a theater-level Russian Front game using David Greenwood's fine game engine hopefully some time in the next six months, or whenever he releases it to the public. Christopher Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Well said, Dark. And your brother and I should talk :P fighting fans unite well. lol. But everything you've said is true. Soul Calibur in particular is well-known for needing strategy and characters having tons upon tons of moves. At 09:09 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Chris. you said: The game needs to have sufficient complexity, changeability and depth that it is an intellectual challenge to me, more than just a memorization of sequences, environments and the like, but constantly evolving tactical and/or strategic choices that are different every time I play the game. I This in fairness actually describes fighting games very well. Taking the savage gambit as a representation of what a mainstrem, complex fighting game such as streetfighter is like would be like assuming that a formular one racing car is like a wheel barrow. Any decent beat em up on a console has far more than memorization involved. Firstly, there is always a distance betwene you and your opponent, and you must be aware of the best way of crossing that distance in order to attack them, indeed some characters may be better fighting at a distance due to having moves such as projectiles, while others may have special ways of crossing that distance like charge attacks or blying at their opponent. Then, the distance involved is not just forward and back, but also vertical. Do you attack your opponent's head or feet? do you jump in or walk? and if you jump, how high? Then, there is the question of what type of attack. In most beat em ups, your character will have at least four, usually as many as six or eight, standard attacks such as punches and kicks. these all have different range, different priority over your opponent's moves, and may work better or wose depending upon the situation, for instance, a slow, sweeping attack on the ground may be more useful when your opponent is already recovering from a hit. Then there are even more moves, either moves which activate or become useable in different situations, such as pressing forward and punch when your opponent is close to throw them, or special moves which have different principles and may be activated by a combination of things, eg, fireballs. There is then the question of blocking or parrying, and how you may counter your opponent when you've blocked their attack, indeed certain characters are better at defense than attack. Then, there is the question of how fast your character moves (again, a very variable property). Bare in mind these moves differ for each character in the game, and thus the situations you have are nearly endless. And what I have just described covers only the most basic aspects of a fighting game, indeed it barely covers street fighter 2 released in 1992, let alone some of the more modern games where characters have hundreds of moves and even (when you get to blazblu and similar games), their own playing styles with different stances, uses of the controller etc. My brother is a great player of strategic and systematic games such as chess, and at the same time he is a huge fighting game fan, -there is a very good reason for this. So, this should at least let people know how complex the average modern beat em up actually is. Personally, I am slightly more picky in the beat em ups I play, and prefer those with serious plot and atmosphere such as soul calibur, over things like smackdown vs raw, but certainly it's not because of a lack of complexity. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Fair point, Thomas, but the thing is if the fight is being commentated as it goes on, it can be described fairly. And Yohandy if you want to go online and do this I'm up for it. So long as you have a way to record one of the ps3s and both our voices at the same time, I'm good to go. Just let me know when. Otherwise, for those who are interested, I can record me in training mode, messing around with moves and showing things. At 11:08 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible client for running adrift IF games
Hi Jacob, I'm using the Scare interpreter to play ADRIFT games. So far, it's working perfectly, though you'll still need to use the JAWS cursor to read the text. Hope this helps. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia For information regarding my Internet radio shows, links to my favorite sites, and more, visit my personal website at http://www.ksapergia.net/. If you need jingles, voiceovers and music for your project at an affordable price, visit KJS Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com/. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
Hi Michael, Michael wrote: I haven't a clue on how I'd go about playing something like Tomb Raider, though. A good 90% of what attracted me to the Tomb Raider series was the panoramic scenery and stark panic, like when the T-Rex pops it's big head around the cavern wall and comes barrelling down on you like a locomotive. My reply: Unfortunately, third-person games like Tomb Raider are virtually impossible to complete on your own if you are blind. Although, I still play them I get a lot of help from my wife getting through some of the more complex parts, and some of it just down right comes to memorizing things as best as you can. This really takes away from the experience because you can't just wander around the levels looking at the panoramic scenery which certainly got more detailed as the series got more technically advanced. For example, in 2007 Edos Interactive released a remake of the original Tomb Raider game, Tomb Raider Anniversary, with some huge improvements in the graphics. There are all kinds of things like the ability to change Lara Croft's outfits to much more detailed scenes etc. One of the things that amazed me is I've been told in Tomb Raider Anniversary when Lara comes out of the water you can see the individual droplets of water dripping off of her body which you got to admit is pretty cool. That's hundreds of times better than the original 1997 release. If they have put that much detail into something like that you can imagine the rest of the graphics etc would have to be extremely awesome. Our buddy T-Rex, which was awesome in the first game, would absolutely rule with the improved graphics. I'm just a bit upset I can't see it. Anyway, getting back to my point playing Tomb Raider blind is virtually impossible without a lot of practice and some sighted assistance. If you haven't been keeping tabs on that series the games have gotten quite a bit more difficult since the early days. If memory serves me correctly to exit level 1 in the original Tomb Raider game I believe you had to find a few keys to unlock various doors. In Tomb Raider Anniversary, the 2007 remake, when you reach the last room on the level there are two giant stone weights hung from the ceiling by ropes. Lara has to climb up to a ledg jump on one of the weights and ride it down until the two stone weights are exactly balanced. This unlocks the exit from the level. Unfortunately, the doors are timed so you have to get through them pdq. However, trying to do that blind is pretty much impossible just because there is no way to indicate when the weights are perfectly balanced. Another degree of comnplexity/difficulty is beginning with Tomb Raider Legend they introduced a grappling hook as part of Lara's basic inventory. This helps Lara swing over giant chasms, lava pits, or whatever else she can't jump over. Plus you can use it to climb to ledges far above Lara's head. This is all well and good except setting the hook is once again very visual. There are usually large rocks, cracks in the ceiling, or things that look like little stone loops in the ceiling where Lara has to set the hook. If you can't visually see where to set the hook you can spend all day randomly trying to set the hook. Even once you get it seated you have to have Lara climb the rope, start swinging, wait until she picks up enough momentum, and have her leap off the rope at the exact moment to grab the ledge, cross the pit, whatever which isn't easy. My wife can see it and she tells me it is pretty tough to pull off. So I guess guys like you and I are pretty much out of luck as far as games like Tomb Raider goes. Too bad as I'm still in love with Lara Croft. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible client for running adrift IF games
OK, will look into/for it, but the little bit of testing did with the adrift interpreter/runner that seemed to come with adrift generator also seemed mostly alright with jaws cursor, but, haven't done much with it. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@sasktel.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible client for running adrift IF games Hi Jacob, I'm using the Scare interpreter to play ADRIFT games. So far, it's working perfectly, though you'll still need to use the JAWS cursor to read the text. Hope this helps. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia For information regarding my Internet radio shows, links to my favorite sites, and more, visit my personal website at http://www.ksapergia.net/. If you need jingles, voiceovers and music for your project at an affordable price, visit KJS Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com/. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] playing mainstream games vs blindness specific ones
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 10:42:45PM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote: series was the panoramic scenery and stark panic, like when the T-Rex pops it's big head around the cavern wall and comes barrelling down on you like a locomotive. My reply: Unfortunately, third-person games like Tomb Raider are virtually impossible to complete on your own if you are blind. [My Reply:] Oh, yeah, I can just imagine being underwater in TR2, following the trail of garbage across the ocean floor to the split in the side of the sunken ship, all while dodging that humongous shark. .laughs. Yeah, I loved that Nevada desert canyon scene. You remember, the one with the water at the bottom you'd always fall into, then have to swim over to the only point where you could climb out. I'm positive I spent at least four days exploring that canyon, trying to reach every possible point I could access, and having a blast doing it. I also loved showing off her moves, like the running jump with the swan dive tuck and roll. I jumped across that canyon alot doing that. Anyway, I finally got Audio Quake working on Windows the other day, and am busy trying to decypher all the sounds in the sucker. Way too much audio feedback all at once. I figure sooner or later, I'll get around to hacking the sounds to something more appropriate too make them easier to differentiate. I was thinking of using that bouncing off the transparency sound from the pilot episode of Star Trek, when Captain Pike tried to get at the little guys with the big heads. Thought it would make for a better wall warning sound. Those Friend/Foe/Monster detection sounds could use some work, too. If not that, then just a soft voice speaking what the heck they are, as if speaking to an A.I. I dunno. I just think clipped information would be better than a bunch of confusing tones. What do you think? That soft ticking sound produced by that radar they used in the second Aliens movie, the same warning tone used for monsters, and a voice saying friend and foe for the friend and enemy detection, respectively on the D5K? Using the words wall, corner, and edge for other navigation aids? Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
