Re: [Audyssey] (no subject)
Hi jeremy. My point was not that it was not possible to show information around the player at a distance, only that it is possible that the lack of analogue mechanics in audio games is possibly a function of the game's audio view, sinse any audio game has the player as the center of the focus by which the soundscape is related and relates all aspects of the game according to their distance relative to the player, where as a graphical game shows the player as more a part of an over all environment. My admitedly slightly clumsy monopoly board analogy was an attempt to explain this idea, though I admit I might not have been successful. Dscribing scrolling is rather like trying to describe sound increasing with promximity to a person who has always been deaf, the physics of distance is understood but getting across what the rest of the concepts are is more than a little difficult. I do see this sort of thing as helpful though sinse if it is possible to break down what qualities and mechanics make a game like packman, mario mega man etc as adictive as it was it is possible to then considder how best to translate those elements into audio, what might need altering and what stay the same. Analogue movement is a major case of something that would be quite possible but doesn't seem to have been done yet. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games like Chrono cross
Hi Scott, I modded Snes9X myself and my changes are small. My modded version takes interesting information that is given to the PPU and serves it up to another app via TCP. The whole point is to get this information into my other app where I can turn it into new accessibility features on a per game basis. The information consists of things like the tile maps for each of the BGs, their offsets, and the sprites and their positions. This is the information the PPU has, so it's what the game gave it and essentially what Snes9X is currently displaying to the player. But it is information at a higher level of abstraction than taking screen shots of the final rendered product and trying to get useful information out of those. So for example, I've ripped some of the tiles out of Chrono Trigger and identified all the letter and number tiles. This means that I get a sort of simple but very accurate OCR on any screens that use the one character per tile format. I can even label icons like a sword icon that means attack power or a shield icon that means defense, etc. So when looking at the character stats screen I can have all the stats read via text to speech. When I'm done I expect to be able to tell where the menu pointer sprite is and determine which chunk of text or icon it's pointing at. That way I can do text to speech for the currently selected menu item, useful in the party menu and in combat menus. I'm currently working on dialog text, meaning the text format that is used whenever NPCs talk in the game. It is not a one character per tile text like is used in menus but instead it is custom drawn. Fortunately there is still a predictable way to get it and turn it into text to speech. When I finish with that I'll go on to sprites and hopefully get menus much more accessible. After that I plan on doing some simple sound indicators so you can at least tell when your character is moving, in which direction, and when he is stopped at a wall. Then position announcements for other NPCs / sprites currently on the screen. And very last, if I can get someone sighted to play through the game and identify the ripped tiles for floors, walls, treasure chests, etc, then I could provide a tile by tile exploration of what is currently on screen, like the camera in BK3 or the grid in Tactical Battle. There are a few other ideas that could follow as well. Like I said, there's still a lot to be done. Getting all this information out of the emulator is the most difficult part because the code is very low level and the results are images, which I can't see well enough. I've been using a text representation of pixel images and gotten sighted assistance when that's not enough. But I think I'm about half way through all the low level code, which is good. Even with all these features it will still be more difficult than playing with sight, but that is mostly due to the difficulty of representing a mainstream game in audio than the lack of interesting information. Have you played Chrono Trigger? Can you play it at all now? Ian Reed Try my free games at http://BlindAudioGames.com On 5/26/2014 6:47 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: Hiya Ian, Interesting project! What can you do with that modded version of Snes9X? Have there been other accessibility tweaks made that I've managed to miss finding out about? Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a personal request/challenge
Hello, I have never played this game before but i’d be willing to give it a go if it were available. I have heard good things about it in the past and it would be good to try it out. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] (no subject)
Dark wrote: Again both fatigue in movement and uncertainty in amount moved are mechanics that would work extremely well in some games, indeed I can see how in interceptor that will make for an interesting battle element, but not really for action games to replicate mainstream mechanics, because the point of the analogue movement in a game like Mario is that the player Could! move as he/she wants if his/her grasp of the mechanics was up to the task. (end of quote) I agree with you here. Uncertainty mechanics of this sort, as well as analog movement uncertainties, take some time to analyze and evaluate. I think that doing it the way I suggested, while not the same, might provide a possibility, but I see your point viz a viz versus the style of an analog controller. Dark wrote: Actually the reason I mention this movement mechanic in so much detail is that there is absolutely no earthly reason why it could not be replicated in audio. Even if you couldn't show as much detail with respect to ledge configurations and vertical movements, there is no reason why the horizontal movement of the characterand indeed what jumps you do need to make could not have this analogue quality. A game like Q9 or superliam would be much harder and much more addictive, sinse you could not just instantly stop and line yourself up with an oncoming enemy, or jump precisely over one pit, indeed many simple atari 2600 or Nes games like pit fall had such rock hard difficulty precisely for this reason, sinse the player needed to master and become experienced in the use of the game mechanics much as you'd need to learn to play a musical instrument or a sport before they could be any good at the game. (end of quote) Agreed. I think we're touching on the same issue here. I wonder if the problem with this isn't more a problem of underestimating the capabilities of audio to demonstrate this kind of movement, and the ability of audio gamers to make these kinds of analyses and act accordingly. No offense to our developers. Most of the games I have played have been very well constructed, but movement, targeting, and other aspects have been very smooth and easy to predict for the most part. At least, in my experience and as I have noted elsewhere, that is probably much more limited than some members of the list. Dark wrote: Thinking about this I do wonder if part of the issue is the audio representation itself. After all in a graphical game it is necessary to have an actual, measurable distance between the player and a given object and thus need to calculate how long it takes the player to get there and what scrolling the screen needs to do, where as in audio sinse most audio games always show things from the player's perspective exclusively the way the game shows the distance to the player and the actual speed of distance traveled are the same thing. (end of quote) I wonder about that. I remember in the demo of the Tarzan Junior game that the pits were telegraphed a little before them. If that telegraph was not always a uniform distance ahead, and if there were a way to also telegraph the width of the pits and vary both games with pits to jump would become much more interesting. I haven't played Q9 but I'd be interested in how it handles some of these issues as it seems like Shades of Doom to be a touch stone for some of the design decisions in play here. Dark Wrote (in reference to how Jim Kitchens' monopoly game works with squares) That difference in information is the type of difference in the view between audio and graphical games, indeed Packman vs packman talks is very much this way. Now if you imagine instead of having predefined squares you just have a smooth board to slide your peace around, where as in the audio game you press the arrows and get a movement sound. Well on the physical board the speed of your hand moving the peace relative to the overview will give you a clear impression of the movement speed involved and at any give time you know say how far the distance between your peace and the corner of the board is, where as in the audio game, sinse you don't get a complete view of the hole board you can't relate your speed to object movement. (end of quote) True. However, I think it's possible to give some of this information. reverb, sound shadow, wind noises as in Entombed, and the like can give directional and distance information. Couple with other audio cues it might be possible to give a player an idea of distance traversed and speed. However, I think I should probably retire from the field. I am not a technical person. My position is merely as an eager player and creative designer. Take care, Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audys
[Audyssey] a personal request/challenge
Dear all developers reading the list: I do not wish to cast stones. Developing games for blind players is difficult, time-consuming, and takes a great deal of thankless effort. Few it any developers reap much other than the satisfaction of knowing that their games are played and enjoyed by a grateful community. That said, I would like to throw an idea out there and see if anyone would like to bite. We have a number of Monopolies. There is at least one Scrabble. We have Backgammon, chess, card games, Snakes and Ladders, Life, etc. However, we do not have anything like Risk or other forms of strategy board game. I realize that the AI for such a game would be a very difficult proposition, but, I know, I personally, would be willing to shell out fairly substantial cash for a decent turn-based strategy game even with simple mechanics like Risk. If anyone is willing to pursue such a thing, or else, wants to jump on the request wagon with me, please do so:) Thank you all for the work you do to make games for our community, and I hope that no one takes this as a you guys rock but why don't you get off your lazy posterior and do my favorite game. It isn't meant that way. It's merely an observation. The most common games done are exploration/puzzle/card games. The ones that go outside this area are often more arcade style or reproductions of PC games. If I missed an accessible strategy game that is turn-based etc, please throw it at me off list and I'll be happy to retract what I have said and grovel for a day:) Take care, Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games like Chrono cross
Hiya Ian, Interesting project! What can you do with that modded version of Snes9X? Have there been other accessibility tweaks made that I've managed to miss finding out about? Scott On 5/26/14, Ian Reed wrote: > I loved Chrono Trigger. I have many fond memories of playing it when I > was younger. > > In April I started on a project to add accessibility features to it > using a modded version of Snes9X. > I've made some good progress but there's still a lot of work to be done. > And even with accessibility features it will always feel a bit clunky > because it was designed as a game for the sighted. > But I'm excited to play it again some day. > > Ian Reed > Try my free games at http://BlindAudioGames.com > > > On 5/24/2014 11:49 PM, Devin Prater wrote: >> Hi all. I've been entranced by the chrono series from the moment I heard >> the music and read the storyline. I really hope that programmers of >> audiogames will become good enough to write a game with a storyline and >> battle system as in depth as the chrono series. >> >> Sent from my iPod 5 >> >> keychat/google talk: >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com >> primary email: >> d.pra...@me.com >> facebook/iMessage: >> devinpra...@live.com >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
Hi michael. That is good to know and your brief explanation about what the game concerns sounds interesting. I don't know if I'll get to beta testing, but I'd certainly be interested in trying the game out when it's finished. All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: "Michael Taboada" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas! Hi John, Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here, but I believe I gave the genre below. Anyway, it's an arcade title. I will release a little more information so people will know if they want to test the game. This game will be a game similar to temple run, where it basically goes on forever until you lose, except probably a little more simplistic at least at first. The story is that you are a bat, and need to fly through a cave, avoid obsticals, picking up extras (coins, powerups, etc). There will be a couple different modes, including ones where powerups are bad for you, more silly/crazy ones where your arrow keys change up, and depending on the difficulty you may not know which ones did without trial and error, etc. Any more info that you think I should provide just let me know, and I hope this gave you a better feel for the game. -Michael. On 5/26/2014 3:45 PM, john wrote: Could you at least give us the theme of game: racing, fps, strategy, sci fi, etc? I'd be willing to beta test, but I want to know what I'm getting into before I sign up for anything. - Original Message - From: Michael Taboada If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
Hi John, Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here, but I believe I gave the genre below. Anyway, it's an arcade title. I will release a little more information so people will know if they want to test the game. This game will be a game similar to temple run, where it basically goes on forever until you lose, except probably a little more simplistic at least at first. The story is that you are a bat, and need to fly through a cave, avoid obsticals, picking up extras (coins, powerups, etc). There will be a couple different modes, including ones where powerups are bad for you, more silly/crazy ones where your arrow keys change up, and depending on the difficulty you may not know which ones did without trial and error, etc. Any more info that you think I should provide just let me know, and I hope this gave you a better feel for the game. -Michael. On 5/26/2014 3:45 PM, john wrote: Could you at least give us the theme of game: racing, fps, strategy, sci fi, etc? I'd be willing to beta test, but I want to know what I'm getting into before I sign up for anything. - Original Message - From: Michael Taboada If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Secrecy -was- Re: Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
Hi Cara, Thanks. I have released more information as a reply to John's question. -Michael. On 5/26/2014 4:24 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: HI Michael, As a developer myself, are you absolutely sure that the level of secrecy you are going for here is completely appropriate / necessary? What I mean is that (as others have mentioned) at least knowing the type of game would be important in your search for appropriate testers. Yes? If you simply say we have a game to test, then you will probably receive way more responses than you would need to screen and many may not even be interested once you tell them what type of game it is. I am assuming here that you are saving that info for private correspondences. If you are wanting people to begin testing without knowing what type of game this is then you will likely also have many drop-outs once the game type is revealed. My point here is that you can save yourself and your potential testers much grief and aggravation if you release just a bit more info about what it is that people will be potentially testing. I myself may also be interested in testing this game, for example, however, if it turns out that the genre is not something in which I am interested, then you will have wasted your time and mine in the process. Know what I mean? Just wanting to save you the troubles of this sort of approach. Best of luck! Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 25, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Michael Taboada wrote: Hello Ryan, As I'm sure you'll understand, we cannot give much information at this time. However, we can give you the following: As this is our first title, it will be more simplistic, but still not lacking in challenge and replayability. It will be an arcade title, with modes and difficulty settings similar to super egg hunt plus. And when I say similar, I don't mean similar as in game play, just in the way it has different modes of the same game play. Thank you, and if you have any other questions please ask, and we will answer if possible. -Michael. On 5/26/2014 1:42 AM, ryan chou wrote: just out of curiosity, what is this game? you've said how to sign up and the details, but nothing about what the game itself even is On 5/25/14, Michael Taboada wrote: Hi all audiogamers, It's been a while since you've heard anything from Speed of Sound Gaming. As for many of us, this is because of real life. However, now we are looking for beta testers for an upcoming game! If you wish to beta test, please email to mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com with any things you think will help us in choosing you (previous beta experience, etc). We are currently accepting beta testers for windows, mac and linux. Remember that everything given to you as part of this beta is not to be shared outside the group of beta testers, and for no reason are you to talk about the unreleased software with anyone outside the beta testing group. Also, if we consider your feedback valuable, then we'll give you a free copy of the game when it comes out. This is to stop people signing up for the beta just to get a free copy then never providing any feedback. Again, please send emails to mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com! Thanks all, and we look forward to hearing from you! -Michael, Speed of Sound Gaming. www.SpeedOfSoundGaming.com mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you
[Audyssey] Secrecy -was- Re: Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
HI Michael, As a developer myself, are you absolutely sure that the level of secrecy you are going for here is completely appropriate / necessary? What I mean is that (as others have mentioned) at least knowing the type of game would be important in your search for appropriate testers. Yes? If you simply say we have a game to test, then you will probably receive way more responses than you would need to screen and many may not even be interested once you tell them what type of game it is. I am assuming here that you are saving that info for private correspondences. If you are wanting people to begin testing without knowing what type of game this is then you will likely also have many drop-outs once the game type is revealed. My point here is that you can save yourself and your potential testers much grief and aggravation if you release just a bit more info about what it is that people will be potentially testing. I myself may also be interested in testing this game, for example, however, if it turns out that the genre is not something in which I am interested, then you will have wasted your time and mine in the process. Know what I mean? Just wanting to save you the troubles of this sort of approach. Best of luck! Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 25, 2014, at 11:46 PM, Michael Taboada wrote: Hello Ryan, As I'm sure you'll understand, we cannot give much information at this time. However, we can give you the following: As this is our first title, it will be more simplistic, but still not lacking in challenge and replayability. It will be an arcade title, with modes and difficulty settings similar to super egg hunt plus. And when I say similar, I don't mean similar as in game play, just in the way it has different modes of the same game play. Thank you, and if you have any other questions please ask, and we will answer if possible. -Michael. On 5/26/2014 1:42 AM, ryan chou wrote: > just out of curiosity, what is this game? you've said how to sign up > and the details, but nothing about what the game itself even is > > On 5/25/14, Michael Taboada wrote: >> Hi all audiogamers, >> It's been a while since you've heard anything from Speed of Sound >> Gaming. As for many of us, this is because of real life. However, now we >> are looking >> for beta testers for an upcoming game! If you wish to beta test, please >> email to mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com with any things you think will >> help us >> in choosing you (previous beta experience, etc). >> We are currently accepting beta testers for windows, mac and linux. >> Remember that everything given to you as part of this beta is not to be >> shared outside >> the group of beta testers, and for no reason are you to talk about the >> unreleased software with anyone outside the beta testing group. Also, if >> we consider >> your feedback valuable, then we'll give you a free copy of the game when >> it comes out. This is to stop people signing up for the beta just to get >> a free >> copy then never providing any feedback. >> Again, please send emails to mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com! >> Thanks all, and we look forward to hearing from you! >> -Michael, Speed of Sound Gaming. >> www.SpeedOfSoundGaming.com >> mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] analog movement and keyboard movements
Hi jeremy. Again both fatigue in movement and uncertainty in amount moved are mechanics that would work extremely well in some games, indeed I can see how in interceptor that will make for an interesting battle element, but not really for action games to replicate mainstream mechanics, because the point of the analogue movement in a game like Mario is that the player Could! move as he/she wants if his/her grasp of the mechanics was up to the task. Actually the reason I mention this movement mechanic in so much detail is that there is absolutely no earthly reason why it could not be replicated in audio. Even if you couldn't show as much detail with respect to ledge configurations and vertical movements, there is no reason why the horizontal movement of the characterand indeed what jumps you do need to make could not have this analogue quality. A game like Q9 or superliam would be much harder and much more addictive, sinse you could not just instantly stop and line yourself up with an oncoming enemy, or jump precisely over one pit, indeed many simple atari 2600 or Nes games like pit fall had such rock hard difficulty precisely for this reason, sinse the player needed to master and become experienced in the use of the game mechanics much as you'd need to learn to play a musical instrument or a sport before they could be any good at the game. The other reason I am explaining this is because manifestly, if people have not played graphical games, this is something people will not know, and it might not be clear why there is so much of a major difference between say marrio and Q9 or original Montizuma's revenge and the Usa remake. Thinking about this I do wonder if part of the issue is the audio representation itself. After all in a graphical game it is necessary to have an actual, measurable distance between the player and a given object and thus need to calculate how long it takes the player to get there and what scrolling the screen needs to do, where as in audio sinse most audio games always show things from the player's perspective exclusively the way the game shows the distance to the player and the actual speed of distance traveled are the same thing. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, but imagine Jim's monopoly game vs having a physical tactile board in front of you. On the tactile board you can at the same time know the player's position and easily count the number of squares around the board by having one hand on where the player is and the other checking the squares, in Jim's monopoly however at any time you just get the clomp clomp of your peace moving and are told what square you get to (let's forget about using the board review feature for now). That difference in information is the type of difference in the view between audio and graphical games, indeed Packman vs packman talks is very much this way. Now if you imagine instead of having predefined squares you just have a smooth board to slide your peace around, where as in the audio game you press the arrows and get a movement sound. Well on the physical board the speed of your hand moving the peace relative to the overview will give you a clear impression of the movement speed involved and at any give time you know say how far the distance between your peace and the corner of the board is, where as in the audio game, sinse you don't get a complete view of the hole board you can't relate your speed to object movement. I hope some of this analogy about views makes some degree of sense. if not, well suffice it to say that I think there is a reason more analogue movement mechanics got missed in audio games, however there is nothing stopping them being put into a game in the future, after all it's no different from creating a racing game or a vehicle based game like gma tank commander. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
I agree I would like to know at least the genre. There are some genres of games I'm less keen on and would probably thus be a less effective tester. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Speed of Sound Gaming needs betas!
Could you at least give us the theme of game: racing, fps, strategy, sci fi, etc? I'd be willing to beta test, but I want to know what I'm getting into before I sign up for anything. - Original Message - From: Michael Taboada http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] analog movement and keyboard movements
Dark, Nod, I know it doesn't work quite the same way the way I outlined. However, the programmer can introduce uncertainties into the movement to somewhat replicate this portion. For instance, in our current first project Interceptor, although you can select or input a distance you wish to travel the program introduces a limited randomness into your move to represent the fact that both you and your enemy's fighter are moving, taking evasive actions, etc. Thus if I choose to move 10,000 meters I might move exactly 10,000 meters, or 8100 meters, or 13,300 meters. As the distance you travel increases, this error increases. If your navigational computer in your fighter gets damaged, this error increases. So I'm aware that while it is not a perfect solution to the problem, I think a three speed select buttons on a keyboard walking game could be done this way with analogous results. By introducing a fatigue mechanic to go with the speeds as well as uncertainty, that would increase the difficulty. It's just something I've never seen in an audiogame myself. Thanks for the correction. It's been years since I played any analog games, and honestly, I couldn't see any of them clearly enough after I was about 7 or 8 to really make out graphics. The ones I played I just played at random for the most part. However, this conversation is interesting because it shows limitations that people regard as insurmountable. Some of them seem very daunting, I'm not so sure about others. Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games like Chrono cross
I've always wanted to be able to play that game. Keep up the great work as always sir! On 26/05/2014, Ian Reed wrote: > I loved Chrono Trigger. I have many fond memories of playing it when I > was younger. > > In April I started on a project to add accessibility features to it > using a modded version of Snes9X. > I've made some good progress but there's still a lot of work to be done. > And even with accessibility features it will always feel a bit clunky > because it was designed as a game for the sighted. > But I'm excited to play it again some day. > > Ian Reed > Try my free games at http://BlindAudioGames.com > > > On 5/24/2014 11:49 PM, Devin Prater wrote: >> Hi all. I've been entranced by the chrono series from the moment I heard >> the music and read the storyline. I really hope that programmers of >> audiogames will become good enough to write a game with a storyline and >> battle system as in depth as the chrono series. >> >> Sent from my iPod 5 >> >> keychat/google talk: >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com >> primary email: >> d.pra...@me.com >> facebook/iMessage: >> devinpra...@live.com >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games like Chrono cross
I loved Chrono Trigger. I have many fond memories of playing it when I was younger. In April I started on a project to add accessibility features to it using a modded version of Snes9X. I've made some good progress but there's still a lot of work to be done. And even with accessibility features it will always feel a bit clunky because it was designed as a game for the sighted. But I'm excited to play it again some day. Ian Reed Try my free games at http://BlindAudioGames.com On 5/24/2014 11:49 PM, Devin Prater wrote: Hi all. I've been entranced by the chrono series from the moment I heard the music and read the storyline. I really hope that programmers of audiogames will become good enough to write a game with a storyline and battle system as in depth as the chrono series. Sent from my iPod 5 keychat/google talk: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com primary email: d.pra...@me.com facebook/iMessage: devinpra...@live.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] keyboard inputs, walking speeds, and oh my
Hi jeremy. Different keys for different movement speeds would be an interesting idea, but wouldn't exactly replicate the mechanics of games like Marrio, sonic etc. The hole point was that your character's speed wasn't uniform, neither was their stopping distance. Similarly how long you held the jump button down dictated how far you moved. There was then also a run button which, when held would also affect your movement speed, jump hight and stopping distance accordingly, indeed in some ways getting Mario to move correctly was almost like controlling a car in a racing game. This created situations where you needed to time things very carefully. For example, in Mario brothers stage one there is a pit. You can walk to the edge and jump over with an average jump, however if you try run jumping, immediately after the pit is a goomba enemey, which drops down from above meaning if you run jump over or jump too far you might end up sliding streight into it. The Mario games took these mechanics to the point of an art form, but every game had some degree of this sort of analogue control dictated by how you pressed your keys, which is one reason why the graphical games that are famous work on a more substantive level than just being tests of how quickly the player can react to on screen threats. Though a fatigue system isn't a bad ideaa in itself, there was also no need for such complexities to keep games like Mario interesting to the player, sinse a combination of the mechanics of the game's engine combined with design of levels which tested the player's ability to understand and employ those mechanics in a number of varying situations was more than enough to create a hugely adictive challenge. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] keyboard inputs, walking speeds, and oh my
Thomas, I don't see any reason why a keyboard input couldn't replicate this. Have different keys for different movement speeds. If you incorporated some form of fatigue to make different movement rates more advantageous in certain situations, it should be at least a comparable problematic even if it does not play exactly the same. Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] online skip-bo
I don't remember seeing one, but you might search for Spite and Malice. It's the same game but played with regular playing cards. Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] tom's black jack game
Hi Tom That's what I did. I indeed selected the run script option on blackjack.py All I hear is: press return to continue. I press the select button but I am not able to play the game. All I hear is: press return to continue. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 25 May 2014 11:17 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tom's black jack game Hi Nicol, The main problem here is you are trying to run the wrong file. The pyc file was specifically compiled for Python 2.7 and higher and won't run on your phone. You should have tried to run the py source file in your Python interpreter instead. Try opening the Python script shell and run script on blackjack.py which is the actual script file. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. nope, as I said up until the quite late 90's the 3D thumb stick controllers didn't exist and all input was either on or off, meaning analogue movement was handled entirely by the game itself. Older arcade sticks (and indeed sticks like my X arcade one), basically work the same way as joypads with several small metal switches in the base around the stick, so pressing the stick in one direction presses the switch. This is why the vast majority of 16 bit era games were equally playable on a stick or a joypad, or indeed on a keyboard for that matter. Regarding the correct formulae, over movement speed, key presses and movement, perhaps this would be an occasion where communicating with programmers of graphical games would help. There are after all lots of people on places like retroremakes who freely program old style games from scratch. While obviously a lot of what is done graphically even in old style games won't be relevant, some ideas of relative speeds for movement would likely be just the same particularly if you really wanted to replicate similar mechanics to mainstream games. Obviously it'd need tweaking depending upon the game, but just some basic ideas might be a handy starting point to begin tinkering. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Happy Memorial Day
Hello everyone, For those of you living in the USA I want to personally wish you a happy Memorial Day. Try to drive safely if you are traveling to visit family today, and have fun if you plan to join in any Memorial Day cook outs or celebrations. Let's all remember to honor the brave men and women who fought and died in combat to keep us free and to make this country what it is today. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Jim, Yeah, it makes a big difference in Mach 1 TTS having a racing wheel and peddles. Same goes for Rail Racer. You can use the keyboard, but it isn't nearly as precise or as seamless as using a racing wheel with those games. Cheers! On 5/25/14, Jim Kitchen wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > The keyboard verses game input devices is why for Mach 1 tts I said > I wrote Mach 1 tts specifically for my Logitech MOMO Racing steering wheel > joystick. It should work ok with other game controllers as well. However > some of the tracks may be very difficult if not impossible to drive via the > keyboard. > > And you know that is because it makes it easier to drive some of the tracks > if you can press the gas peddle just a bit rather than full on or off. And > the same with the steering. > > BFN > > Jim > > My steering wheel is a Logitech MOMO Racing. > > j...@kitchensinc.net > http://www.kitchensinc.net > (440) 286-6920 > Chardon Ohio USA > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Interesting. I certainly wasn't aware the classic joysticks for Atari and NES had simple on/off input systems like a keyboard. I of course have studied how PC game controllers like how the Logitech game controllers for the PC work, and naturally assumed that the joysticks for older systems used a similar input system. Now, that you explained how they worked I do see how some of those games can be adapted for a keyboard. Basically, all it comes down to is coming up with the right formulas to calculate speed based on the length of time the key or keys are pressed. I'll have to look into this further as I am interested in adding more analog mechanics into my games as I grew up with the Atari, NES, Super NES, etc and I know I personally haven't done enough research into emulating those sorts of mechanics in my own games and game engine. One thing we do agree on writing and having some tutorials would be very helpful. To be honest I have been programming for over 14 years and I am still unclear how to do it myself so need to check the web for some tutorials to find out what would be good analog game mechanics. My guess is every developer learns this by trial and error and they do so simply by trying to emulate the mechanics in game x so there is no set way to do this specifically. Cheers! On 5/25/14, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > I'm afraid I completely disagree about analogue movement. The sort of sticks > > your talking about, the 3D thumb sticks that directly calibrated player > movement to stick position, eg, far right = walk fast right less far right = > > slower, didn't come into the mainstream world until the 32/64 bit era in > the mid 90's. > > All the previous games, including classics like mario, sonic, MEga man etc > had a simple on/off input system, even for joysticks. I know this very > certainly because I have read the manual for my X arcade stick which > precisely imitates those movements, so have a vague idea at least how the > hardware works. > > The way that all those 8 and 16 bit era games handled analogue movement was > > much more to do with the software and game engine than the hardware. For > example, instead of having a character's walking speed be constant, have it > > gradually increase when the correct direction is held. With jumps, have the > > amount of time held on the jump button dictate the hight of the jump, in > combination with how much the directional buttons are pressed and what speed > > the character was going. > > Many games (like mario), also had a run button which, when held would cause > > the character to run further and any running jumps be hier. > > All of this is quite possible on a pc keyboard by simply tracking the time > spent holding the keys, indeed I've played freeware graphical games that do > > this quite nicely so that playing on a keyboard isn't that different > technically to playing on a stick. indeed when playing the Pc turrican > remakes, I don't miss my old comador Amigar Zip stick half as much as I > would expect to :D. > > So yes, the analogue thumb stick controllers could be used to create in game > > movement, but certainly for something with the same movement model as all > the games of the pre 32 bit era had wouldn't be difficult at all at least > from a design perspective. > > The problem however is firstly that as you said, if people have not > experienced the mechanics of mainstream games they do not know! the fine > differences in say Mario's walking and jumping speed, and secondly precisely > > working out some mathematics to create a more analogue system of control > rather than just a basic press button movement model such as games like > Superliam and Q9 have. > > Perhaps this is where writing some tutorials or basic formulae for > programmers would be helpful. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
