Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On 11 March 2010 19:33, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 11 March 2010 18:13:11 Duncan Drennan wrote: Is there some particular developer resistance to LaunchPad? Moving SF.net tracker items to Launchpad can be done automatically by requesting an import. That isn't a problem. However, we do need a consensus that Launchpad represents a genuine improvement on SF.net for a majority of gEDA developers and users (I know that there are some developers who are keen on it). So how do we explicitly get that consensus? Do we need a concrete proposal to vote or otherwise express opinion on? Does anyone strongly object if I try to write that? There are some things that would make moving to Launchpad a really compelling option: - A hook for git.gpleda.org that could update a Launchpad ticket referenced in a commit message. Doesn't look that difficult to do. There's an example post-receive-email script in the git contrib area that could be used as a template, and launchpad has an easy-to-use Python API. More details in the proposal, I guess. - Someone willing to research how best to arrange things in terms of Launchpad groups (we probably don't want everybody who's able to respond to bugs to have full administrative rights over the gEDA Launchpad project page, for instance). That should be in the proposal. I have a few ideas on that. - A volunteer to manage the migration process (e.g. writing patches for in- tree documentation and updating the wiki). I think we should get the consensus first. If that doesn't happen, we don't need a volunteer. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
Hello, is there any way to use git via http? http://git.gpleda.org doesn't seem to have any .git file accessible. Alberto ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:39:58 +, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: On 11 March 2010 19:33, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 11 March 2010 18:13:11 Duncan Drennan wrote: Is there some particular developer resistance to LaunchPad? Moving SF.net tracker items to Launchpad can be done automatically by requesting an import. That isn't a problem. However, we do need a consensus that Launchpad represents a genuine improvement on SF.net for a majority of gEDA developers and users (I know that there are some developers who are keen on it). So how do we explicitly get that consensus? Do we need a concrete proposal to vote or otherwise express opinion on? Does anyone strongly object if I try to write that? That sounds like an excellent idea. Peter :-) -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:59:41 +0100, Alberto Maccioni alberto.macci...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, is there any way to use git via http? http://git.gpleda.org doesn't seem to have any .git file accessible. git.gpleda.org doesn't publish an HTTP repository. However, you can access the repo.or.cz mirror using HTTP: http://repo.or.cz/r/geda-gaf.git Cheers, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
It works! Thank you very much. Maybe it's worth mentioning in page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scm and also in the official pages of each tool. For all the people behind a company proxy: add the htt_proxy environment variable before using git Alberto 2010/3/15 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:59:41 +0100, Alberto Maccioni alberto.macci...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, is there any way to use git via http? http://git.gpleda.org doesn't seem to have any .git file accessible. git.gpleda.org doesn't publish an HTTP repository. However, you can access the repo.or.cz mirror using HTTP: http://repo.or.cz/r/geda-gaf.git Cheers, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:44:26 +0100, Alberto Maccioni alberto.macci...@gmail.com wrote: It works! Thank you very much. Maybe it's worth mentioning in page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scm Maybe. and also in the official pages of each tool. No. For all the people behind a company proxy: add the htt_proxy environment variable before using git Thanks for the tip! Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
[snip] git.gpleda.org doesn't publish an HTTP repository. Actually it does, but I want to phase it out completely since git over http is a huge bandwidth hog. So, yeah, please use somebody else's bandwidth. :-) -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GIT via HTTP
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 06:48:34 -0400, Ales Hvezda ahve...@moria.seul.org wrote: [snip] git.gpleda.org doesn't publish an HTTP repository. Actually it does, but I want to phase it out completely since git over http is a huge bandwidth hog. So, yeah, please use somebody else's bandwidth. :-) Shh! It was only a little white lie! :-P Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
[snip] So how do we explicitly get that consensus? Do we need a concrete proposal to vote or otherwise express opinion on? Does anyone strongly object if I try to write that? I think the discussion should be more along the lines of: 1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). -or- 2) Move _all_ the projects project data elsewhere, like to SF or Launchpad. On a related note, there have been grumblings about the way things currently are, as evident by a fairly recent irc conversation (names removed and key statements cherry-picked): ATM Ales is a single point of failure I'm concerned actually about Ales being a single point failure problem with for-pay servers is users are motivated, they help pay for a few months, then no more so any decisions that affect $$ need to account for probably Ales paying for it out of pocket I have absolutely no issues with removing me as a single point of failure, however, if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*, time, and get some buy-in from all people doing the development work. For the record: getting gaf, pcb, and gerbv all in once place was a ton of work and was no picnic. I would be happy to provide a tarball of everything (it'll be big) and I don't want duplication of data, so if things are migrated away from gpleda.org, I would be happy to turn those services off. If you can't tell, I don't see the value of moving just the trackers from one SF-like service to another, just because we don't like the user interface. However, moving all the data to SF or Launchpad, that has my vote. And all the data includes: * webpage (though I own the domains for a few more years) * released files (current and historical) * git repositories * mailing lists * mailing list archives (also huge) * bug trackers * wiki -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
Minor correction below. [snip] 1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). Actually more than just two, there is: * gpleda.org * seul.org * SF.net * and chunks on Launchpad. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). Thank you for doing that for all of us. 2) Move _all_ the projects project data elsewhere, like to SF or Launchpad. I can't speak to Launchpad but during business hours, in the East Cost time zone, from hear near Pittsburgh SF is so slow it usually useless. Also if your corporate IT department has you stuck on IE6 then it is useless, every download attempt of anything crashes and burns, sometimes taking the whole computer with it, not just IE6. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
unless I'm missing some key feature of gnuplot and grace, they stink for plotting simulator output. I spend a *lot* of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, panning at a fixed zoom, putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, having delta cursors, and having a flexible and *extensible* waveform calculator. I've used Ploticus for the output of a datalogger for some Coal Mining equipment. I had it set up to zoom-in on selected time points in 24 hour graphs of 200 HP motors, such as temperature and current, overload curves etc. It is not directly interactive. My program ran Ploticus to create each graph as it was requested. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: A modest proposal regarding newlib footprints
Is there any way to allow read-only subscriptions to geda-dev for those of us interested to read what is going on in a more convenient way than the archive? You can look at the archive web page for the messages. I'm not sure how much lag there is, doesn't seem to be much. http://archives.seul.org/geda/dev/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:30:26 -0400, Ales Hvezda ahve...@moria.seul.org wrote: [snip] So how do we explicitly get that consensus? Do we need a concrete proposal to vote or otherwise express opinion on? Does anyone strongly object if I try to write that? I think the discussion should be more along the lines of: 1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). -or- 2) Move _all_ the projects project data elsewhere, like to SF or Launchpad. On a related note, there have been grumblings about the way things currently are, as evident by a fairly recent irc conversation (names removed and key statements cherry-picked): ATM Ales is a single point of failure This was me, IIRC. And I wasn't, Grumbling about the way things currently are, I was merely pointing out things that should be taken into consideration when people were discussing possible alternatives to SF.net for issue tracking. I'm sorry if my comments came across in the wrong way. As far as you being a single point of failure, Ales, I think that it's reasonable to let people know that the point was made in the context of a discussion about how, in concept, private server(s) could be funded and administered. At the moment, gEDA's critical data -- the source code -- is quite safe, due to the fact that we've moved to using git, so *everybody* is helping to back up the repository (thanks, guys). However, the bus number for resources like the website, wiki and mailing list is much smaller, *because* they're on private servers administered by Ales -- but, on the other hand, the fact they're on private servers gives us a massive amount of flexibility which we wouldn't get elsewhere. One idea that's been suggested is that the various gEDA developers form a not-for-profit corporation (or other suitable organisation), which would hold the hosting contract and own the gpleda.org domain name, etc., but the trustees would then delegate the day-to-day running and administration to someone competent (e.g. Ales). Doing things that way would mean things work pretty much the same as they do at the moment, but that if something *did* happen to Ales -- and we hope nothing does! -- the trustees would have the legal ability to appoint someone to take over with a minimum of legal difficulties or disruption to project services. [ A further, unrelated advantage of being a not-for-profit would be that it would be easier to accept large donations, and that it might (depending on the jurisdiction) be possible to claim back the tax paid by the donors. ] If you can't tell, I don't see the value of moving just the trackers from one SF-like service to another, just because we don't like the user interface. However, moving all the data to SF or Launchpad, that has my vote. And all the data includes: * webpage (though I own the domains for a few more years) * released files (current and historical) * git repositories * mailing lists * mailing list archives (also huge) * bug trackers * wiki And as I am sure you are well aware, Ales, no project hosting service exists that (a) would allow us to conveniently import all of the above or (b) provides the quality of customisation and integration that we currently have, thanks to your hard work! As far as I am aware, *nobody* has expressed *any* dissatisfaction with the seul.org or gpleda.org services, or how you run them. My consideration through the course of the recent discussions, both on- and off-list, has been, How can we avoid putting any additional burden on Ales? If you *don't want to* administer the gEDA server(s) any more, then we should discuss alternatives. However, I hadn't realised this was a potential problem -- and if it is, it's much bigger and more serious than a discussion about, Do we want to move issue tracker, or not? Peter P.S. The current problems with SF are considerably more extensive than, We don't like the interface. Nevertheless, having a sane interface is a fairly critical factor if you want people to actually use it. -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: A modest proposal regarding newlib footprints
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:22:22 -0400, Bob Paddock graceindustr...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to allow read-only subscriptions to geda-dev for those of us interested to read what is going on in a more convenient way than the archive? You can look at the archive web page for the messages. I'm not sure how much lag there is, doesn't seem to be much. http://archives.seul.org/geda/dev/ GMane is also good: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.geda.announce You can access the geda-dev mailing list using a newsreader by pointing it at: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.geda.devel HTH, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:05:31 -0400, Bob Paddock graceindustr...@gmail.com wrote: 2) Move _all_ the projects project data elsewhere, like to SF or Launchpad. I can't speak to Launchpad but during business hours, in the East Cost time zone, from hear near Pittsburgh SF is so slow it usually useless. Also if your corporate IT department has you stuck on IE6 then it is useless, every download attempt of anything crashes and burns, sometimes taking the whole computer with it, not just IE6. This is, of course, one of my issues with SF.net. In addition to the horrible interface, lack of features, etc. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Dan McMahill wrote: With the help of Ivan I'm writing a viewer, oscopy (http://repo.or.cz/w/oscopy.git) based draft #4 of this page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:data_plotting_improvements IMHO, there are already very mature open source data plotters out there. Think gnuplot, or grace. What is the rationale in rolling your own? unless I'm missing some key feature of gnuplot and grace, they stink for plotting simulator output. I spend a *lot* of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, panning at a fixed zoom, putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, having delta cursors, and having a flexible and *extensible* waveform calculator. The types of postprocessing range from the very simple (out_plus - out-minus) to more complex but standard like an fft to fairly complex custom functions. Good heavens. That's the sort of stuff I do with a digitizing oscilloscope. I could never imagine doing that with simulator output. But perhaps it's just too early in the morning. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Dan McMahill wrote: Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:34:17 +0100, Arnaud Gardelein wrote: With the help of Ivan I'm writing a viewer, oscopy (http://repo.or.cz/w/oscopy.git) based draft #4 of this page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:data_plotting_improvements IMHO, there are already very mature open source data plotters out there. Think gnuplot, or grace. What is the rationale in rolling your own? unless I'm missing some key feature of gnuplot and grace, they stink for plotting simulator output. I got the CLI-view-launcher demo test to work fine on a debian unstable installation. The script to generate various kinds of sim run results windows is just text, to quickly set up what you want. The Matplotlib this is based on seems very complete, so maybe all the wish list functions can be done easily. The GUI-view-launcher demo test stopped without running the script because I didn't understand where the command line was. It's not in the area that looks like a terminal window, but in a text dialog box below that at the bottom border of the window. When I got that right, it runs a little differently, it waits until the command to run the simulator, then puts up the 5 various window displays as in the CLI-view-launcher demo. The command window shows progress as below: ** List of figures Figure 1: horiz Graph 1 : (linear) vgs Figure 2: quad Graph 1 : (linear) iRD Graph 2 : (linear) vgs Graph 3 : (linear) vds vgs Graph 4 : (linear) vds Figure 3: horiz Graph 1 : (linear) vout Figure 4: horiz Graph 1 : (linear) vsqu Graph 2 : (linear) vsqufft Graph 3 : (linear) v1 * Figure 5: horiz Graph 1 : (linear) vs *** Now plotting everything Plot command disabled in UI *** Now change C value in schematic and rerun gnetlist + gnucap Pause command disabled in UI *** Updating *** Now look at figure 3 Plot command disabled in UI Each of the windows has pan, zoom, a list of right click options to change that probably comes from matplotlib. My first exploration of pan did some good, but right mouse zoom, (as documented by hover mouse help popups), got the whole app to freeze. Pretty good overall! I'll help test this further Ivan and Arnaud. John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Dave McGuire wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Dan McMahill wrote: I spend a *lot* of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, panning at a fixed zoom, putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, having delta cursors, and having a flexible and *extensible* waveform calculator. The types of postprocessing range from the very simple (out_plus - out-minus) to more complex but standard like an fft to fairly complex custom functions. Good heavens. That's the sort of stuff I do with a digitizing oscilloscope. I could never imagine doing that with simulator output. But perhaps it's just too early in the morning. ;) Hmmm I've had some coffee, gotten the demo to run some more, and it DOES do some of that... zoom right mouse functions after going through a right mouse menu popup and escaping out of that... cursors that snap to datapoints is not implemented...yet... John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad
Peter TB Brett wrote: This was me, IIRC. And I wasn't, Grumbling about the way things currently are, I was merely pointing out things that should be taken into consideration when people were discussing possible alternatives to SF.net for issue tracking. I'm sorry if my comments came across in the wrong way. As far as you being a single point of failure, Ales, I think that it's reasonable to let people know that the point was made in the context of a discussion about how, in concept, private server(s) could be funded and administered. My mirror of gedasymbols.org seems to function somewhat when DJ's servers are out. I think it could be better with a little study of DNS, and maybe already is better. I've left my DNS enabled since the last outage. Turning off DJ's server for a while might show reponsive DNS and pages served from the mirror already. That server cost $15/month before adding a mailman list and needing more memory. Now with $30/month expense it handles a mailman list and chunks along fine serving gedasymbols pages half the time -- DNS alternates between the two defined IP addresses for gedasymbols.org. It's available, or ones like it can be rented so the environment is less confusing and controlled by Ales instead of shared. The prices I mentioned are for a root access account that runs OpenVZ, and Xen is also available for slightly different prices. Peter TB Brett wrote: On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:05:31 -0400, Bob Paddock graceindustr...@gmail.com wrote: I can't speak to Launchpad but during business hours, in the East Cost time zone, from hear near Pittsburgh SF is so slow it usually useless. This is, of course, one of my issues with SF.net. In addition to the horrible interface, lack of features, etc. I've been studying the python based web app framework called Django recently and that plus zc.buildout, a python app for building collections of apps seems very good for creating database driven apps for features you could want for tracking projects, etc. I don't even call myself an application developer, but I'm making some headway with it :-) More on that later, John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*
Ales Hvezda wrote: problem with for-pay servers is users are motivated, they help pay for a few months, then no more so any decisions that affect $$ need to account for probably Ales paying for it out of pocket I have absolutely no issues with removing me as a single point of failure, however, if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*, time, and get some buy-in from all people doing the development work. When my friends on the metalartists.org list lost the previous server and I started a mailman server for them they donated money via paypal to get to paid up for a year and a half after just a week. It might not be hard, even with this bunch to get virtual server money. For OpenVZ on Quantact.com servers you'd need to budget $30/month for the level of RAM needed to run mailman. These prices might even drop some as things progress, since some web hosters, (Network Solns), with canned web-app packages (not root accounts), now run at $11/month. I'm good for $20 for server support -- I expect that to go for a years worth after asking the rest of the people that care to contribute. So now the question is Who else will pledge money?. John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Fundung for server
I'm in for $20 - just identify where it should go. Tony Radice ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fundung for server
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:22:18 -0400, Tony Radice tradi...@verizon.net wrote: I'm in for $20 - just identify where it should go. I think there's a donate button on SF.net, but I'm not sure where that money goes or what proportion of it SF.net siphons off. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*
On Monday 15 March 2010, John Griessen wrote: Ales Hvezda wrote: problem with for-pay servers is users are motivated, they help pay for a few months, then no more so any decisions that affect $$ need to account for probably Ales paying for it out of pocket I have absolutely no issues with removing me as a single point of failure, however, if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*, time, and get some buy-in from all people doing the development work. When my friends on the metalartists.org list lost the previous server and I started a mailman server for them they donated money via paypal to get to paid up for a year and a half after just a week. It might not be hard, even with this bunch to get virtual server money. For OpenVZ on Quantact.com servers you'd need to budget $30/month for the level of RAM needed to run mailman. These prices might even drop some as things progress, since some web hosters, (Network Solns), with canned web-app packages (not root accounts), now run at $11/month. I'm good for $20 for server support -- I expect that to go for a years worth after asking the rest of the people that care to contribute. So now the question is Who else will pledge money?. John I am just a lurker generally, but I think Ales has done a good job those times when I grabbed the next 'generation' of this stuff, it seems to have a minimum of the PIMA content most such projects seem to have an abundance of, with SF being the most prominent in my limited experience as I have repo write access there on one of the legacy computer OS projects it loves to forget my pw on a random basis. If Ales all vote to setup the NP thing, even if it still runs on Ales's servers and a few bucks a month is needed to compensate Ales (or whoever might succeed should something happen, then I am sure my card could get $20/year lighter for as long as I'm around. Just set it up and post the donate site URL here. However, since I'm both 75 and diabetic, I have no warranty of being here tomorrow, but today I'm good. Basically, somebody needs to pay the energy bill in any event. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I hate mankind, for I think myself one of the best of them, and I know how bad I am. -- Samuel Johnson ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:50:18 -0500, John Griessen wrote: For OpenVZ on Quantact.com servers you'd need to budget $30/month for the level of RAM needed to run mailman. These prices might even drop some as things progress, since some web hosters, (Network Solns), with canned web-app packages (not root accounts), now run at $11/month. As I posted before, competitive pricing for no-root packages dropped significantly in recent years. My domains with scripting, 10 GB traffic/ month, 2 GB Webspace, mailman preinstalled cost me 1.49 EUR/month. That is about 2.00 USD/month at current exchange rate. Uptime is 99.5%, connectivity is better than my DSL connection at home can handle. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On Mar 15, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Ales Hvezda wrote: 1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). It looks like trac has gotten pretty good with git, could we could set up trac on gpleda.org? http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/GitPlugin Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
Hi all, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Steven Michalske Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:07 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line) On Mar 15, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Ales Hvezda wrote: 1) Leave gEDA (that includes gaf, pcb, and gerbv) split between two private servers (seul.org and gpleda.org both privately funded). It looks like trac has gotten pretty good with git, could we could set up trac on gpleda.org? http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/GitPlugin Steve FWIW, I'm using Lighthouse for issue tracking. Have a look at or use the free trial: http://lighthouseapp.com/ For a real project with lots of tickets things get slow here too, see below if you have some lunch time left or just no appetite ;-) https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/tickets https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994-ruby-on-rails/milestones/50064 -235 https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994/sending-patches https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994-ruby-on-rails/tickets/bins/636 8 Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:23:02AM -0500, John Griessen wrote: Dave McGuire wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Dan McMahill wrote: I spend a *lot* of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, panning at a fixed zoom, putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, having delta cursors, and having a flexible and *extensible* waveform calculator. The types of postprocessing range from the very simple (out_plus - out-minus) to more complex but standard like an fft to fairly complex custom functions. Good heavens. That's the sort of stuff I do with a digitizing oscilloscope. I could never imagine doing that with simulator output. But perhaps it's just too early in the morning. ;) Hmmm I've had some coffee, gotten the demo to run some more, and it DOES do some of that... zoom right mouse functions after going through a right mouse menu popup and escaping out of that... cursors that snap to datapoints is not implemented...yet... Right, there are many things that need to be done, but at least it's a start... What I'd really like to see is a nice integration with gschem and I think the approach outlined at http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:circuit_simulation_improvements is very sensible. Imagine having simulation objects with attributes that define simulation type and parameters. Many attributes could be simulator-independent so we could, in theory, support any simulator just by writing a simple script that would convert attributes to simulator-specific directives. The basic idea in lame ASCII art: gschem (schematic) simulator X --- output X \ | |--- oscopy \-- simulator Y --- output Y / The simulator output could then be read, displayed and manipulated by oscopy, which itself is simulator-independent (it's very easy to write a reader for your favorite simulator output format). Oscopy has an additional advantage in that it uses numpy so things like doing arithmetic with signals and FFT are easy to implement. Within gschem, we could support various simulator-specific flows by having custom menus that bring up nice GTK dialogs with additional simulator options etc. The beauty of all this is that most of it doesn't require any changes to gschem and can be implemented almost entirely via plugins and external scripts. -- Ivan Stankovic, poke...@fly.srk.fer.hr Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm; ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Ivan Stankovic wrote: The basic idea in lame ASCII art: gschem (schematic) simulator X --- output X \ | |--- oscopy \-- simulator Y --- output Y / The simulator output could then be read, displayed and manipulated by oscopy, which itself is simulator-independent (it's very easy to write a reader for your favorite simulator output format). Oscopy has an additional advantage in that it uses numpy so things like doing arithmetic with signals and FFT are easy to implement. Within gschem, we could support various simulator-specific flows by having custom menus that bring up nice GTK dialogs with additional simulator options etc. The beauty of all this is that most of it doesn't require any changes to gschem and can be implemented almost entirely via plugins and external scripts. Al Davis has been asking for a translator that is external so progress can be made soon and not have to rewrite gschem. What is the plugin status of gschem? Is it anything like pcb's plugin writing? Here's what Al has been asking for in outline form: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/glue-projects John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: A modest proposal regarding newlib footprints
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:53 PM, kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: I read the devel list via gmane (gmane.comp.cad.geda.devel) Gmane is a service that transfers mailinglists to usenet-protocol and back. Since usenet readers are optimized for threaded discussions with many participants, they are convenient for mailing lists. See http://gmane.org for details. On linux I'd recommend knode as a reader. But thunderbird or any other email client that can deal with the NNTP protocol might be just fine, too. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, gmane works great! Jared ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, John Griessen j...@ecosensory.com wrote: Al Davis has been asking for a translator that is external so progress can be made soon and not have to rewrite gschem. What is the plugin status of gschem? Is it anything like pcb's plugin writing? Here's what Al has been asking for in outline form: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/glue-projects Here's a more detailed description of Al's proposed translator: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:format_translation Jared ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 02:44:05PM -0500, John Griessen wrote: Ivan Stankovic wrote: Within gschem, we could support various simulator-specific flows by having custom menus that bring up nice GTK dialogs with additional simulator options etc. The beauty of all this is that most of it doesn't require any changes to gschem and can be implemented almost entirely via plugins and external scripts. Al Davis has been asking for a translator that is external so progress can be made soon and not have to rewrite gschem. What is the plugin status of gschem? Is it anything like pcb's plugin writing? It's basically a scheme script, oscopy.scm, which is installed to $prefix/geda/share/gEDA/scheme. So you can just 1. download oscopy (for now just clone from the git repo and run autogen.sh) 2. ./configure --prefix=the same prefix you used for libgeda, gschem... 3. make install 4. add (load-from-path oscopy.scm) to your gschemrc and you should see the oscopy menu when you next start gschem. Admittedly, the current usage has many rough edges, but it demonstrates that the idea works. And the four step process described above can hardly be simpler. Here's what Al has been asking for in outline form: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/glue-projects Yes, that's exactly how it was done with oscopy. DBUS proved actually very useful and simple to work with. -- Ivan Stankovic, poke...@fly.srk.fer.hr Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm; ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*
John Griessen wrote: Ales Hvezda wrote: problem with for-pay servers is users are motivated, they help pay for a few months, then no more so any decisions that affect $$ need to account for probably Ales paying for it out of pocket I have absolutely no issues with removing me as a single point of failure, however, if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*, time, and get some buy-in from all people doing the development work. When my friends on the metalartists.org list lost the previous server and I started a mailman server for them they donated money via paypal to get to paid up for a year and a half after just a week. It might not be hard, even with this bunch to get virtual server money. For OpenVZ on Quantact.com servers you'd need to budget $30/month for the level of RAM needed to run mailman. These prices might even drop some as things progress, since some web hosters, (Network Solns), with canned web-app packages (not root accounts), now run at $11/month. I'm good for $20 for server support -- I expect that to go for a years worth after asking the rest of the people that care to contribute. So now the question is Who else will pledge money?. John I have two servers at MSTransactions that seem to work pretty well. For about $100 per year you get a dedicated server. You have to maintain it yourself, no cpanel, but I installed Virtualmin on them and run multiple virtual http hosts. Intel P3 667Mhz 256 MB 20 GB 500 Gb 10 Mbps 1 IPFREE 7.99/mo. *Configure* https://www.hostmds.com/client/cart.php?a=addpid=206 The only catch is the 10 Mbps speed, which might not be enough. Jim. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*
On Mar 15, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Jim wrote: problem with for-pay servers is users are motivated, they help pay for a few months, then no more so any decisions that affect $$ need to account for probably Ales paying for it out of pocket I have absolutely no issues with removing me as a single point of failure, however, if you people want to do it then put up the *cash*, time, and get some buy-in from all people doing the development work. When my friends on the metalartists.org list lost the previous server and I started a mailman server for them they donated money via paypal to get to paid up for a year and a half after just a week. It might not be hard, even with this bunch to get virtual server money. For OpenVZ on Quantact.com servers you'd need to budget $30/month for the level of RAM needed to run mailman. These prices might even drop some as things progress, since some web hosters, (Network Solns), with canned web-app packages (not root accounts), now run at $11/ month. I'm good for $20 for server support -- I expect that to go for a years worth after asking the rest of the people that care to contribute. So now the question is Who else will pledge money?. John I have two servers at MSTransactions that seem to work pretty well. For about $100 per year you get a dedicated server. You have to maintain it yourself, no cpanel, but I installed Virtualmin on them and run multiple virtual http hosts. Intel P3 667Mhz 256 MB 20 GB 500 Gb 10 Mbps 1 IPFREE 7.99/mo. *Configure* https://www.hostmds.com/client/cart.php?a=addpid=206 The only catch is the 10 Mbps speed, which might not be enough. This is for mailing list support and downloads? Good heavens, if 10Mbps isn't enough, then something is horribly, horribly wrong. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Le dimanche 14 mars 2010 à 12:56 +, Kai-Martin Knaak a écrit : IMHO, there are already very mature open source data plotters out there. Think gnuplot, or grace. What is the rationale in rolling your own? In the introduction of the manual, there is some rationale. To sum it up, each data plotter has its own strengths and weakness, but none do gather everything mentioned on the geda plotting improvement page. For example, although gnuplot can do math, AFAIK there is no cursors, and no update through DBus. A year and a half ago, I tried to work on gwave, but there was a dependency problem on guile-gnome and I did not find info gwave2. Then I took the decision for go for my own, taking the geda plotting improvement page as specifications. I designed the oscopy framework to be easily extendable, i.e. adding data import/export filters (Readers/Writers), Graphs, Cursors... I plan to use it also to view results exported by electronic instruments like scopes etc, also to support smith charts, etc... Arnaud. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: functions in hidnogui.c
On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 20:03 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
Can some developer enlighten me, where the procedure
nogui_invalidate_lr gets called?
Run pcb in gdb, set a breakpoint there.
There are two purposes here... we need a HID that is a prototype for
new HIDs, hence the CRASH commands all throughout that. In addition,
a do-nothing hid is needed for non-GUI runs. However, we also have
the batch HID for running batch commands, perhaps we should use that
instead of the nogui hid?
Having looked at it, I think it is pretty safe just to remove the CRASH
statements in the hidnogui HID. (Both invalidate_lr and invalidate_all).
Alternatively, we would have to provide a NOP implementation of the two
invalidate calls in each HID. I'd suggest (if this route is taken),
making a new common helpers routine (perhaps rename drawhelpers.c), and
provide NOP common_invalidate_{lr,all} functions which the non-GUI
HIDs can all use.
I've pushed out some groundwork, removing various cruft such as the
init_done flag (I think Ineiev had a similar patch), and removing the
third, unused invalidate_wh method.
As regards the printing.. I think it would be nice if the exporter HIDs
took an explicit command-line parameter to determine which side of the
board to export. The PNG exporter already does this for photo-mode.
Regards,
--
Peter Clifton
Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA
Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: functions in hidnogui.c
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 00:46 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: As you might guess from the rant thread, I am still interested in getting this particular patch applied. It significantly improves the usability because it provides more versatile command line printing. With the DISPLAY() action I can select whether to print refdes, or value with the components. Peter Clifton reminded me, that one obstacle to the application is the necessity to remove a CRASH statement in hidnogui.c. It should be checked, that the removal does not have any undesired side effect. However, I can't judge what this function is supposed to do because there is no clarifying comment and it's name is mentioned nowhere else in the source. Can some developer enlighten me, where the procedure nogui_invalidate_lr gets called? gui-invalidate_lr is called from draw.c gui-invalidate_all() is called from a number of places too, so it is important to ensure that doesn't have a CRASH either. grep -n -- -invalidate *.c action.c:2568:gui-invalidate_all(); action.c:4463:gui-invalidate_all (); action.c:6885: gui-invalidate_all (); draw.c:179: gui-invalidate_all (); draw.c:197: gui-invalidate_lr (Block.X1, Block.X2, Block.Y1, Block.Y2); draw.c:236: gui-invalidate_all (); find.c:4405: gui-invalidate_all (); move.c:1052: gui-invalidate_all (); puller.c:536: gui-invalidate_all (); The reason you can't grep for the hidnogui variant directly is that these function pointers are installed as a default by macros in hid/common/hidnogui.c in a call to apply_default_hid(). This is called from the various HIDs _init() function. Regards, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fundung for server
On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 16:07 +, Peter TB Brett wrote: On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:22:18 -0400, Tony Radice tradi...@verizon.net wrote: I'm in for $20 - just identify where it should go. As Ales has mentioned, its not the issue of finding money now.. its finding a continual source of money. Think more like charities that want a few £ or $ per month, not lump sum donations. It wouldn't take many people willing to contribute £2 per month (say), to fund a server, but getting infrastructure set up to make this kind of donation would be a pain. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Funding for server
Peter Clifton wrote: It wouldn't take many people willing to contribute £2 per month (say), to fund a server, but getting infrastructure set up to make this kind of donation would be a pain. There is chipin.com ChipIn does not charge any fees to organizers and contributors of events that send payments directly to the Organizer’s PayPal account. However, PayPal Premier or Business accounts may be subject to fees from PayPal. It is a site that accounts for pledges. It could help with infrastructure so that small payments can be made via the free gift mode of paypal... and if spread out enough, the recipient does not require a pro account with fees, which happens above $500 per month. If a chipin event fund campaign was started for every 6 months of fees, it would be just $180 and wouldn't go over the paypal gift limit. Getting this to happen again and again would be easy. they have tools for it -- Promote Embed the ChipIn Widget on your favorite Web site or create your own ChipIn page at yourname.chipin.com John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Ivan Stankovic wrote: Here's what Al has been asking for in outline form: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/glue-projects Yes, that's exactly how it was done with oscopy. DBUS proved actually very useful and simple to work with. So, have you done some translation from gschem primitives to gnucap native format? Or is it just gnetlist spice-sdb backend to gnucap native format? Al wants more info than you get with SPICE netlist formats. So Verilog-ams level of function is possible. John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fundung for server
As Ales has mentioned, its not the issue of finding money now.. its finding a continual source of money. Think more like charities that want a few £ or $ per month, not lump sum donations. Any reason not to consider a few ads as a long-term solution? Ads are a well-known, generally acceptable, and scalable method of supporting simple web sites. A few google text ads (for example) wouldn't be too obtrusive, and would probably generate more than enough funding per month-- lots of companies advertise about PCB services, and people learning about gEDA would be inclined to be receptive. -Windell ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Geoff Swan wrote: I've seen commercial tools that have some predefined grids like rectangular, polar, smith but so far none have taken it to the next level of letting you add custom ones or the custom readout. Just in case you missed it - qucs has a number of plotting outputs including a Smith chart. I don't recall how good it is in terms of the interactivity with datapoints on the various graphs. Having a built in smith chart is better than nothing but having a way for the user to define his/her own types of gridlines and cursor readouts is much better. Smith charts aren't the only ones you might want. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Dave McGuire wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Dan McMahill wrote: With the help of Ivan I'm writing a viewer, oscopy (http://repo.or.cz/w/oscopy.git) based draft #4 of this page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:data_plotting_improvements IMHO, there are already very mature open source data plotters out there. Think gnuplot, or grace. What is the rationale in rolling your own? unless I'm missing some key feature of gnuplot and grace, they stink for plotting simulator output. I spend a *lot* of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, panning at a fixed zoom, putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, having delta cursors, and having a flexible and *extensible* waveform calculator. The types of postprocessing range from the very simple (out_plus - out-minus) to more complex but standard like an fft to fairly complex custom functions. Good heavens. That's the sort of stuff I do with a digitizing oscilloscope. I could never imagine doing that with simulator output. I think your 2nd sentence hits the nail on the head. Simulator output can be for 2 things. 1) presentation like in a design review or a paper. When you get here, you're supposed to be done 2) this one is where the majority of the time is typically spent. debugging! Is the circuit hooked up right? Is it performing right? Why isn't it working right, why isn't it performing at the level you want. So think of the simulator and waveform viewer as a scope and a spectrum and network analyzer. The interactivity needs to be as easy in a waveform tool as it is in a scope. Since you have the disadvantages of model inaccuracies and simulation time being much longer than real time you want to further disadvantage yourself and you should take advantage of the zero-capacitance voltage probes, ideal current probes, gnucaps ability to access internals like diode junction current versus the charging current, etc. so why not do this with simulator output? -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
IMHO there are three results in any project: 1. What you want 2. What you asked for 3. What you got Simulators are good for making sure #1 and #2 match (does your design do what you want?). Scopes are good for making sure #2 and #3 match (does the circuit function as designed?). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Dan McMahill wrote: Geoff Swan wrote: I've seen commercial tools that have some predefined grids like rectangular, polar, smith but so far none have taken it to the next level of letting you add custom ones or the custom readout. Just in case you missed it - qucs has a number of plotting outputs including a Smith chart. I don't recall how good it is in terms of the interactivity with datapoints on the various graphs. Having a built in smith chart is better than nothing but having a way for the user to define his/her own types of gridlines and cursor readouts is much better. Smith charts aren't the only ones you might want. matplotlib allows you to apply generic coordinate transformations to the axis. The readout cursor then applies that same transformation. On a side note. It is a very robust plotting package and I believe it hold it own very easily with gnuplot. When I dive down into plotting with it I can get even better results with matplotlib than with gnuplot, because I can run python code against the graphics that the plots generate. Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fundung for server
Windell H. Oskay wrote: A few google text ads (for example) wouldn't be too obtrusive, and would probably generate more than enough funding per month-- Text ads that don't move or pop up anything maybe, but I'd rather put gpleda.org on my billpay list for usually free A2A transfers in the US. I think the minimum is a dollar per transfer if it goes to a bank account. A separate bank account just for the server income and expense would be a simple bookkeeping method. Easy to do the income taxes for it that way. JG ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fundung for server
Windell H. Oskay wrote: Any reason not to consider a few ads as a long-term solution? Ads are a well-known, generally acceptable, and scalable method of supporting simple web sites. Please don't. I find adverts generally annoying. They try to draw my attention to topics I don't want to be bothered with. I don't want to be manipulated into knowing some logo or slogan. Others have put these concerns in much better words than I can: http://www.arachnoid.com/lutusp/consumerangst.html A few google text ads (for example) wouldn't be too obtrusive, Yes they are. Google tries to analyze my internet behavior to send the most effective ads to my screen. Sorry, but I'd gladly decline such a service. and would probably generate more than enough funding per month Did I mention, that the price for web space dropped significantly in recent years? There are better alternatives than advertisements to get the website funded. -- lots of companies advertise about PCB services, and people learning about gEDA would be inclined to be receptive. ... to use some other EDA software? Sorry, but this road is slippery. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Funding for server
I find adverts generally annoying. That's fair enough. There are better alternatives than advertisements to get the website funded. Yes and no. I'm certainly willing to chip in, and so is my company. However, one-time contributions are things need to be negotiated or processed on a continuing basis. That takes person-effort that would (IMHO) better be spent elsewhere on the project. The reason that I brought up advertising is that it is an established model for *continuous* funding. And, the slippery slope is already there. As a whole, gEDA is already accepting advertising. Donors through linuxfund are listed; that's sponsorship, i.e. advertising. And there are ads on the github and sourceforge pages (only, the money goes elsewhere) and so on. ... to use some other EDA software? Sorry, but this road is slippery. That's an unfair criticism. Google ads allow keyword control specifically to avoid showing ads for the competition. Even if that were not the case, the gEDA project could instead rent small text ads directly to some gEDA-friendly advertisers, so that it could have full control over the content. -Windell ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Funding for server
Popup ads and ads intermixed with gEDA content would be distracting but I don't believe that is what is being suggested. A sidebar of text ads does not seem bad. Occasionally useful and easy to ignore. (* jcl *) -- You can't create open hardware with closed EDA tools. twitter: http://twitter.com/jluciani blog:http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: On integrating simulator in gschem
Dan McMahill wrote: IMHO, there are already very mature open source data plotters out there. Think gnuplot, or grace. What is the rationale in rolling your own? unless I'm missing some key feature of gnuplot and grace, they stink for plotting simulator output. I used grace quite a bit, both as an interactive GUI and integrated into the data software of my physics experiment. So let's see: I spend a lot of time looking at simulator output and some of the things which are used over and over again are easy interactive zoom in/out, [ctrl + ] for zoom, [ctrl - ] for unzoom. panning at a fixed zoom, a) left mouse butten click'n drag in both directions b) scrollwheel vertical, ctrl+scrollwheel horizontal c) drag dedicated scrollbars putting cursors on waveforms that will lock onto the actual datapoints, these are called trackers in xmgrace having delta cursors, and having a flexible and extensible waveform calculator. see this page for a cursory list of functions: http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Xmgr/doc/trans.html Note, the list of features that can be automatically extracted at the bottom of the page. The types of postprocessing range from the very simple (out_plus - out-minus) to more complex but standard like an fft to fairly complex custom functions. grace has them all and more. My experience with things like gnuplot, matlab, octave (which uses gnuplot), scilab, grace, etc. is that they are no where nearly as interactive as you'd really like for efficiently processing and interacting with simulator data. A powerful feature of grace is the grace_np library. With it a c program can remote control almost all aspects of the GUI, while the GUI is still responsive to user input. That is, you can zoom, pan and inspect data points while the results slowly come pouring in from the simulation. http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/doc/UsersGuide.html#ss6.2 other important features like the ability to define custom grid lines (think Smith chart, Nichols chart, and I have at least one that as far as I know only I use) There you've got a point. According to the user manual Smith charts have not yet been ported from xmgr, and Nichols charts are not even mentioned. However, I reckon, it would be easier by orders of magnitude to add the desired custom grid lines to grace than rolling your own fully featured waveform application with GUI, inter process communication and all. Another important feature in a general purpose simulation waveform viewer is to be able to define custom cursor readout transformations. Again, compared to what is already there, this is a minor feature. So I'd say that especially in the opensource area, a good waveform viewer is not reinventing the wheel. It is time to make a round one instead of the existing square ones! IMHO, you underestimate the effort to get were grace and gnuplot already are. The existing wheel is not square, but a fully functional sports utility vehicle. You just need to add a few extra levers and you have an ideal versatile simulation waveform viewer plus the benefit to produce publication quality printouts. That's the beauty of open source -- No need to start from scratch if an application does almost, but not quite fulfill your requirements. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: functions in hidnogui.c
Peter Clifton wrote: The reason you can't grep for the hidnogui variant directly is that these function pointers are installed as a default by macros in hid/common/hidnogui.c in a call to apply_default_hid(). This is called from the various HIDs _init() function. Thanks for the clarification. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: functions in hidnogui.c
Peter Clifton wrote:
Having looked at it, I think it is pretty safe just to remove the CRASH
statements in the hidnogui HID. (Both invalidate_lr and invalidate_all).
Alternatively, we would have to provide a NOP implementation of the two
invalidate calls in each HID. I'd suggest (if this route is taken),
making a new common helpers routine (perhaps rename drawhelpers.c), and
provide NOP common_invalidate_{lr,all} functions which the non-GUI
HIDs can all use.
I've pushed out some groundwork, removing various cruft such as the
init_done flag (I think Ineiev had a similar patch), and removing the
third, unused invalidate_wh method.
So, what does this mean for the actions-with-export-HID-patch?
Do I need to do some polishing?
As regards the printing.. I think it would be nice if the exporter HIDs
took an explicit command-line parameter to determine which side of the
board to export. The PNG exporter already does this for photo-mode.
Yes, the bottomside keyword in the layer stack string is not very user
friendly.
---(kaimartin)---
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
