Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
The netlist looks like: netname refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin netname refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin netname refdes-pin refdes-pin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 7:13 AM, DJ Delorie [1...@delorie.com wrote: The netlist looks like: netname refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin netname refdes-pin refdes-pin refdes-pin netname refdes-pin refdes-pin Sorry for what may be interpreted is a dumb question. What is a refdes-pin, and is there a utility for converting a regular _cleaned up_ (commands removed) spice netlist? Regards, Chris Maness References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
For example: unnamed_net15 R11-1 J4-4 U4-4 unnamed_net14 C8-2 U4-2 unnamed_net13 R10-1 U4-1 unnamed_net12 C3-2 PS1-26 unnamed_net11 C3-1 PS1-22 DC_GND C2-2 C1-1 U4-3 J4-3 PS1-14 AC_NEUTRAL C8-1 J5-2 PS1-3 unnamed_net10 J4-1 R6-1 unnamed_net9R7-2 TR1-3 AC_HEATER J5-3 TR1-1 AC_LINE R10-2 J5-1 PS1-1 TR1-2 U3-4 unnamed_net8R7-1 U3-3 unnamed_net7R6-2 U3-2 DC_PLUS J4-2 C1-2 C2-1 PS1-16 R11-2 U3-1 unnamed_net6J2-1 U1-3 unnamed_net5R9-2 LCD1-16 unnamed_net4R8-3 LCD1-3 D0 LCD1-7 U2-32 D1 LCD1-8 U2-31 D2 LCD1-9 U2-30 D3 LCD1-10 U2-29 D4 LCD1-11 U2-28 D5 LCD1-12 U2-27 D6 LCD1-13 U2-26 D7 LCD1-14 U2-25 T_CSU1-6 U2-24 T_SOU1-7 U2-23 unnamed_net3C7-2 R5-2 U2-22 HEATER J3-1 U2-21 P1_2R24-2 P1_2-1 U2-19 P1_3R25-2 P1_3-1 U2-18 P1_4R26-2 P1_4-1 U2-17 R/W LCD1-5 U2-16 RS LCD1-4 U2-15 P5_3R21-2 P5_3-1 U2-14 P5_4R22-2 P5_4-1 U2-13 P3_1R23-2 P3_1-1 U2-12 HZ J3-4 U2-11 ENABLE LCD1-6 U2-10 RXD1R3-1 J1-11 U2-9 MODER2-1 J1-7 U2-8 +5V J3-2 R8-2 R2-2 R1-2 C6-2 C5-2 C4-2 R4-2 R3-2 J1-8 R5-1 U1-4 LCD1-15 LCD1-2 U2-20 U2-7 unnamed_net2Y1-3 U2-6 GND R23-1 R22-1 R21-1 R26-1 R25-1 R24-1 J3-3 C7-1 R9-1 R8-1 C6-1 C5-1 C4-1 J1-4 J1-6 J1-10 J1-12 J1-2 J1-14 Y1-2 R5-3 J2-2 U1-2 U1-1 LCD1-1 U2-5 unnamed_net1Y1-1 U2-4 RESET R4-1 J1-13 U2-3 TXD1R1-1 J1-5 U2-2 T_SCK U1-5 U2-1 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
On Apr 2, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Chris Maness wrote: is there a utility for converting a regular _cleaned up_ (commands removed) spice netlist? I don't think so. I don't think any PCB users use LTSpice for schematic capture: most apparently use gschem. And some use gschem to capture schematics for LTSpice, see http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/intro.html. That said, it wouldn't be hard to do SPICE-pcb: maybe a page or two of AWK or Perl. Most of the SPICE syntax problems can be ignored in this narrow application. Why don't you write it and contribute it? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
On Apr 2, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Chris Maness wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 7:37 AM, John Doty [1]...@noqsi.com wrote: On Apr 2, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Chris Maness wrote: is there a utility for converting a regular _cleaned up_ (commands removed) spice netlist? I don't think so. I don't think any PCB users use LTSpice for schematic capture: most apparently use gschem. And some use gschem to capture schematics for LTSpice, see [2]http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/intro.html. That said, it wouldn't be hard to do SPICE-pcb: maybe a page or two of AWK or Perl. Most of the SPICE syntax problems can be ignored in this narrow application. Why don't you write it and contribute it? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [3]http://www.noqsi.com/ [4]...@noqsi.com Yes, Perl is the right script language for the job, but I only know bash. I foresee an issue with the pin numbers, as I don't think spice netlists handles pin numbers in an analogues way, but I am not sure as I am a spice n00b. SPICE has no understanding of pin numbers *at all*. Its abstractions are grounded in IC design where you have no pin numbers (at least internally). You'd have to provide a file mapping positional netlist connections to pin numbers. Another advantage of using a *flexible* schematic capture tool rather than a specialized one. In gschem you can specify both pin numbers (pinnumber= attribute) and pin position in a SPICE netlist (pinseq= attribute). I really like LTSpice for schematic capture, it is very intuitive and fast for me. Except that it's too specialized to be convenient for this job. TinyCAD is kind of nice too, but LT's is very easy and fast. Gschem does not seem to be in mac ports. I saw it listed as a fink package, but I don't like fink at all. gEDA has excellent support under Fink, and it's also not too difficult to build from source on the Mac. I do a lot of gEDA work on my MacBook, especially on the road when I'm away from my Linux desktop machines. I am running PCB under wine (works great) because the mac ports version was buggy. I installed gschem on FreeBSD server to play with it, but I like LTSpice a little better at this point. gschem is extremely *flexible*. But that flexibility comes with a cost. I do schematic capture for simulation, printed circuit design, and VLSI design with gschem, using a variety of design flows, whatever the customer wants. But LTSpice is specialized for simulation, so it doesn't need the extra capabilities gschem has, and there are therefore fewer opportunities for confusion. I like PCB better than all of the other PCB CAD packages out there. Very powerful, and it does not have a real steep curve just to get up and running. Thanks, Chris Maness References 1. mailto:j...@noqsi.com 2. http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/intro.html 3. http://www.noqsi.com/ 4. mailto:j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
SPICE has no understanding of pin numbers *at all*. Its abstractions are grounded in IC design where you have no pin numbers (at least internally). You'd have to provide a file mapping positional netlist connections to pin numbers. Another advantage of using a *flexible* schematic capture tool rather than a specialized one. In gschem you can specify both pin numbers (pinnumber= attribute) and pin position in a SPICE netlist (pinseq= attribute). I am starting to see the picture now, I am playing with gschem right now on my server. I do see that this is a better way to input if it is going to go to layout afterword, but yes you do pay the price up front to save time using a netlist to help with the PCB layout. It is a nightmare trying to check a complicated layout against a schematic, just praying that you aren't missing anything. I switched over to all Macs for workstations and lappys. The only PC archetecture that I have up and running now is the server that runs FreeBSD. I might want to install a fresh copy of Ubuntu on my wife's lappy. I was not able to get X11 to work right with fink. Mac ports seem to support more applications and is more familiar to me since I use FreeBSD. Thanks, Chris Maness ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: OT: I2C pullup resistor location
I'm building a backplane board that will have a processor board (master) and 8 slaves using I2C across the backplane. Is there any advantage to placing the pullup resistors on the end of the backplane farthest from the processor board? I recall installing active termination on the old S-100 bus backplanes to overcome problems with ringing, I think. It's been too long. Thanks, Jim. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 10:33 -0700, Chris Maness wrote: [snip] I switched over to all Macs for workstations and lappys. The only PC archetecture that I have up and running now is the server that runs FreeBSD. I might want to install a fresh copy of Ubuntu on my wife's lappy. I was not able to get X11 to work right with fink. Mac ports seem to support more applications and is more familiar to me since I use FreeBSD. gschem and PCB will run just fine on FreeBSD too, if it helps. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist?
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Peter Clifton [1]pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 10:33 -0700, Chris Maness wrote: [snip] I switched over to all Macs for workstations and lappys. The only PC archetecture that I have up and running now is the server that runs FreeBSD. I might want to install a fresh copy of Ubuntu on my wife's lappy. I was not able to get X11 to work right with fink. Mac ports seem to support more applications and is more familiar to me since I use FreeBSD. gschem and PCB will run just fine on FreeBSD too, if it helps. -- Peter Clifton Yea, I am using it on my FreeBSD box w/ VNC over the network. My BSD box is headless. Chris References 1. mailto:pc...@cam.ac.uk ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem AutoNumber/AutoText @ code sprint
Felipe De la Puente Christen wrote: Hi, Not a big issue, but I think that would be great if the Autonumber text dialog has a separate TextEntry for the EXPRESSION to search for and a different one for the Text Pattern to replace with. +1 Search and replace in protel works like this. And yes, it is powerful and very useful in the context of larger schematics. In my humble opinion, gschem might benefit a lot from more powerful search (and replace) utilities. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Gschem Output to Netlist Format?
How do you dump a gschem schematic to a netlist? I do not see an export in the menu list. Thanks, Chris Maness ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Gschem Output to Netlist Format?
On Apr 2, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Chris Maness wrote: How do you dump a gschem schematic to a netlist? I do not see an export in the menu list. Several ways, all using other programs. For pcb (the program) flows there are gsch2pcb and xgsch2pcb. For others, there's gnetlist. Remember, gEDA is a toolkit, not a tool. It doesn't know what your intended flow is. This has the advantage that you can use it ways the developers never anticipated, but the disadvantage that you have to tell it what you want. You say you know bash: thats's handy. I urge you to learn how to construct a Makefile. Thanks, Chris Maness ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Gschem Output to Netlist Format?
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Chris Maness [1]ch...@chrismaness.com wrote: How do you dump a gschem schematic to a netlist? I do not see an export in the menu list. Thanks, Chris Maness Ok, it looks like I need to install gshc2pcb. Chris References 1. mailto:ch...@chrismaness.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: No Diode in PCB?
Is there no diode in the default PCB symbol directories? Thanks, Chris Maness ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: No Diode in PCB?
On Apr 2, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Chris Maness wrote: Is there no diode in the default PCB symbol directories? Symbols are for schematics, footprints are for boards. I don't know what footprint you need: diodes often use footprints similar to other devices (and I don't use pcb). You can find lots of symbols and footprints at gedasymbols.org. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I2C ringing
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:46:19 -0400 From: Jim [1]...@k4gvo.com Subject: gEDA-user: OT: I2C pullup resistor location To: gEDA user mailing list [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org Message-ID: [3]4bb62d6b.7050...@k4gvo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'm building a backplane board that will have a processor board (master) and 8 slaves using I2C across the backplane. Is there any advantage to placing the pullup resistors on the end of the backplane farthest from the processor board? I recall installing active termination on the old S-100 bus backplanes to overcome problems with ringing, I think. It's been too long. Thanks, Jim. No advantage. S-100 (yes I also built them) had an active driver and fast enough edges so that the length was long enough to be a transmission line. I2C is open drain so that the active driver is the pullup resistor. You might put it at the end so that it makes an open trace easy to detect. John References 1. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. mailto:4bb62d6b.7050...@k4gvo.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: No Diode in PCB?
Search in PCB for ALF. That is what I use for threw hole diodes. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Chris Maness ch...@chrismaness.com wrote: Is there no diode in the default PCB symbol directories? Thanks, Chris Maness ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: No Diode in PCB?
Oh yea I have my own diode symbols I use with it just to avoid issue. Sorry. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 16:31 -0400, evan foss wrote: Search in PCB for ALF. That is what I use for threw hole diodes. But BEWARE... the ALF diodes have a different idea of anode and cathode numbering to the geda-symbols shipped diode-1.sym and diode-2.sym! If you use diode-3.sym in the schematics, all should be well - but make sure you double check by showing the invisible text - or opening the symbol (Hierarchy menu - Down symbol) and checking the pinnumber attributes on the pins as compared to the footprint you intend to use in PCB. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Are multiple pinlabels on a symbol pin OK?
Normally when I construct a symbol for a microcontroller or such part where the
I/O pins can have multiple functions, I like to include the alternate functions
in the pin label, like this example from an Atmel part:
pinlabel=PE2 (XTAL2/ADC0/PCINT26)
But... I've run into a part where the list of alternate functions on some pins
makes the resulting symbol outrageously wide. I'd like to display the GPIO
name in the default font (10), and the alternate names in a smaller font (say 7
or 8).
Can I have two pinlabels on a pin? Like so:
P blah
{
T X Y 9 10 blah
pinlabel=PE2
T X Y 9 7 blah -- note smaller font size
pinlabel=(XTAL2/ADC0/PCINT26)
blah
}
Is that OK, or will gschem get confused down the road?
-dave
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Re: gEDA-user: Are multiple pinlabels on a symbol pin OK?
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 14:31 -0700, Dave N6NZ wrote:
Normally when I construct a symbol for a microcontroller or such part where
the I/O pins can have multiple functions, I like to include the alternate
functions in the pin label, like this example from an Atmel part:
pinlabel=PE2 (XTAL2/ADC0/PCINT26)
But... I've run into a part where the list of alternate functions on some
pins makes the resulting symbol outrageously wide. I'd like to display the
GPIO name in the default font (10), and the alternate names in a smaller font
(say 7 or 8).
Can I have two pinlabels on a pin? Like so:
P blah
{
T X Y 9 10 blah
pinlabel=PE2
T X Y 9 7 blah -- note smaller font size
pinlabel=(XTAL2/ADC0/PCINT26)
blah
}
Is that OK, or will gschem get confused down the road?
Ok, but probably unwise (IMO). I can't really feel justify why. You
could avoid any potential issue by calling the label something else..
pinlabel2= or just place text in the symbol.
Its a shame we don't have any inline markup we can use to change the
font-size mid label, since otherwise we'd be able to guarantee the text
lining up correctly. As it stands, you're having to guess where to start
the second set of label text based upon how particular font gschem picks
up renders on your machine. It will probably stay about right, but not
all fonts on all machines will be exactly the same.
Regards,
--
Peter Clifton
Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA
Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)
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Re: gEDA-user: Gschem Output to Netlist Format?
For pcb (the program) flows there are gsch2pcb and xgsch2pcb. There's a third now - just use File-Import Schematics Of course, that doesn't give you a separate netlist, nor did the OP specify that PCB was the target. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: I2C pullup resistor location
I2C is driven from both ends of the bus, so if you want to use the pull-ups as terminators, use two resistors, each twice the resistance, one at each end. I've never heard of anyone worrying about ringing on I2C though... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: I2C pullup resistor location
On Apr 2, 2010, at 5:10 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: I2C is driven from both ends of the bus, so if you want to use the pull-ups as terminators, use two resistors, each twice the resistance, one at each end. I2C pullups are generally a few kohms, far above any practical characteristic impedance, so they will have essentially no effect on ringing due to drive. They don't have enough drive capacity to produce ringing on upward transitions. On downward transitions the driver output resistance will be more important for damping. I've never heard of anyone worrying about ringing on I2C though... I presume that I2C device makers choose drivers weak enough and receivers slow enough to avoid problems on reasonably sized boards. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Gschem Output to Netlist Format?
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:03 PM, DJ Delorie [1...@delorie.com wrote: For pcb (the program) flows there are gsch2pcb and xgsch2pcb. There's a third now - just use File-Import Schematics Of course, that doesn't give you a separate netlist, nor did the OP specify that PCB was the target. Yep, gschem--PCB. Chris References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
