Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
DJ Delorie wrote: >> Nothing? >> Did any you developers look at the patch? >> Every response welcome (and better than none). > > No time yet, sorry. Peter C. also stated, he has currently no cycles to spare. Coincidently, I _have_ cycles to spare and I' like to see the pcb manual in a better shape. The patch for the extract-docs script I am asking to comment on, is part of this effort. How about the other developers? Peter B.? Bert T. ? Dan McM.? Larry D.? Harry E.? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:47 PM, kai-martin knaak wrote: > John Doty wrote: > >>> Please stop trying to push your personal flow onto others :-) >> >> Which one? > > your makefile approach. Heck, I don't even push that one on myself. For a small project, who needs it? But for a big project, there's no effective substitute. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
No, I stand by it - zero impact.As far as I can see, all of the required features are are already existing in gschem, so there really wouldn't be any feature bloat. This would be something that could be added on by PCB users with a few edits to the gschemrc files. --- On Sat, 4/17/10, John Doty wrote: From: John Doty Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols To: "gEDA user mailing list" Received: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 1:10 PM On Apr 16, 2010, at 10:44 PM, Matthew Wilkins wrote: >It seems like there is room to add a footprint selector utility that >would interface between gschem/gattrib and PCB without impacting >non-PCB users in any way. In fact if PCB had an HID where it just >starts up as a footprint browser and nothing else, you could use PCB >itself to assign footprints to symbols from within gschem or gattrib. >An option in the gschem config file could allow users to define a >command line to start PCB in that mode, and PCB would output the >selected footprint attribute value before exiting. >Users of other workflows might be able to use a similar type of browser >utility to work with other types of libraries -- gnucap models? >verilog models? I don't know if that would be useful or not... >Anyway, the point is that this type of feature can be added and could >be be completely invisible to other workflows, unless they want to use >it. Completely invisible? No! 1. Any feature must be documented. Every addition to the documentation adds to the fog hiding the the other parts of the documentation. One of the advantages of a clean, simple, well-factored, modular approach is that it simplifies the documentation. 2. Any feature can be misconfigured. 3. Any feature can be misunderstood. In commercial software, there's tremendous pressure to add "features", with the result that bloated, low productivity tools are the norm. A free tool need not follow that path. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [1]http://www.noqsi.com/ [2]...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. http://www.noqsi.com/ 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=...@noqsi.com 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=geda-u...@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 16, 2010, at 10:44 PM, Matthew Wilkins wrote: >It seems like there is room to add a footprint selector utility that >would interface between gschem/gattrib and PCB without impacting >non-PCB users in any way. In fact if PCB had an HID where it just >starts up as a footprint browser and nothing else, you could use PCB >itself to assign footprints to symbols from within gschem or gattrib. >An option in the gschem config file could allow users to define a >command line to start PCB in that mode, and PCB would output the >selected footprint attribute value before exiting. >Users of other workflows might be able to use a similar type of browser >utility to work with other types of libraries -- gnucap models? >verilog models? I don't know if that would be useful or not... >Anyway, the point is that this type of feature can be added and could >be be completely invisible to other workflows, unless they want to use >it. Completely invisible? No! 1. Any feature must be documented. Every addition to the documentation adds to the fog hiding the the other parts of the documentation. One of the advantages of a clean, simple, well-factored, modular approach is that it simplifies the documentation. 2. Any feature can be misconfigured. 3. Any feature can be misunderstood. In commercial software, there's tremendous pressure to add "features", with the result that bloated, low productivity tools are the norm. A free tool need not follow that path. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
> ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ gsch2pcb project.txt Please try File->Import schematic in the latest PCB, it should work (and needs more testing! :) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
OMG, it works! Thanks Stefan for all the help. Now the weekend has started. I'll start a "Naming conventions and restrictions" page to describe this and put on the wiki. In the long run, this should be fixed in the parser(s) though. Best Regards, Armin Stefan Salewski wrote: On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 13:10 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 12:37 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: I think I have to rename all of them, including John Luciani's. You have components in your schematic named Rf and Cf without numbers. These seems to have no connection in the netlist. The missing number in refdes seems to be a problem. OK, seems to be all fixed now, see http://www.ssalewski.de/tmp/armin20100417.tar refdes without a digit at the end of the name seems to be indeed a big problem, I am not sure if this is stated at a prominent location in the gEDA/PCB documentation? Minus signs in footprint names can be a problem, this should be well known for people reading this list. But I do not know if this was indeed a problem for your current design, I am too lazy to rename all back to minus signs now. Best regards Stefan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
The 'RADIAL_CAN 200' I used to replace Luciani-footprints (I don't blame him but the parser), after this proved non-working. It is interesting to note, that in the file Hauptplatine_v1.new.pcb generated by gsch2pcb, they translate to "RADIAL_CAN-200" in the Element-definition. Maybe it is somewhere, but an authoritative definition of what characters are allowed in identifiers seems to be badly lacking. This definition must hold valid for the entire gEDA suite. Otherwise an integration of any kind is doomed to fail. Looking at this I recall a statement about file-format evolvement: "...the file format must stay backwards compatible." - I dare to negate this: All the files I encountered but the netlist have a version specifier as their 1st line. It is sufficient to adhere to this feature. All other characteristics can be changed and some should. A good idea to me is to adherere to the JSON syntax definition for future exchange formats. http://www.json.org/ For netlists one might consider : instead of -. Regards, Armin Stefan Salewski wrote: On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 11:57 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: You may try including this line "skip-m4" in your project.txt file to ignore m4 files and problems with minus sign in footprint file names. This works, because recent PCB program has copies of all old m4 footprints in newlib format. But it works not perfect, there is some trouble with naming of footprint files. So it may be better to rename your files, replacing the "-". Ahh -- in your schematic you have footprint names like footprint=RADIAL_CAN 200 with spaces in name, I think this is calling the m4 macro processor. So "skip-m4" will not work! But at the same time you are using pcb-symbols-jcl_2008-4-25 and your own containing the problematic minus sign in file name. I think I have to rename all of them, including John Luciani's. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Hi, It would be nice to have a "revert" or "reload file" function in the gattrib pulldown menu and/or have keystroke. With said feature one would be able to swap more easily between gschem and gattrib when a lot of attributes need to be set/changed (of course updating the file in the process). Just my EUR 0.02 Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. > -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Armin Faltl > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:57 AM > To: gEDA user mailing list > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols > > Not because of the bugs I ran into but since choosing a > footprint is a difficult process in it self I was longing for > a footprint browser. > The easiest place to start a clean implementation may be > gattrib, that I found conventient to duplicate footprint > choices, once one has been assigned gschem. > However, the best overview of what is what and therefore > choose the right footprint is probably gschem. With gschem > open, gattrib should work however, if one remembers, that > gschem is in "read only" then. > > The problem could be split out of gschem, if it were better > supported, to assign a physical part to the symbol. This will > probably help other tools too, since e.g. a Spice model is > tied to a part, not to a bunch of lines with pins (symbol). > I first thought "device" were the thing to use, but in the > standard library it's occupied by names like > CAPACITOR_POLARIZED which says noting about rated voltage or > ESR. Any ideas? > > Just my 2 cents > > Matthew Wilkins wrote: > > It seems like there is room to add a footprint selector > utility that > > would interface between gschem/gattrib and PCB without impacting > > non-PCB users in any way. In fact if PCB had an HID > where it just > > starts up as a footprint browser and nothing else, you > could use PCB > > itself to assign footprints to symbols from within > gschem or gattrib. > > An option in the gschem config file could allow users > to define a > > command line to start PCB in that mode, and PCB would output the > > selected footprint attribute value before exiting. > > Users of other workflows might be able to use a similar > type of browser > > utility to work with other types of libraries -- gnucap models? > > verilog models? I don't know if that would be useful or not... > > Anyway, the point is that this type of feature can be > added and could > > be be completely invisible to other workflows, unless > they want to use > > it. > > --- On Fri, 4/16/10, DJ Delorie wrote: > > > > From: DJ Delorie > > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols > > To: "gEDA user mailing list" > > Received: Friday, April 16, 2010, 6:16 PM > > > > > Perhaps the shortcoming is in your expectations. > > I think that (1) our tools are mature enough that users > should expect > > *some* sort of seamless integration and co-operation > between them, and > > (2) we're mature enough to not have to insult our users when our > > software acts in an unexpected way. > > > The two projects are able to work together *because* they were > > > intentionally designed with clean interfaces, > > Irrelevent. Having clean interfaces doesn't preclude > using those > > interfaces in a seamless manner, giving the impression > of integration. > > > One thing that sows confusion here is that > "footprint" has different > > > meanings > > Hence the Terminology chaper in the Getting Started guide, which > > defines what PCB means by footprint: > > ``A footprint is the pattern on a circuit board to > which your parts > >are attached. This includes all copper, silk, solder > mask, and > >paste information. In other EDA programs, this may > be referred to > >as a "land pattern". "Footprint" sometimes is used > to refer to a > >footprint file. "Footprint" refers to the pattern; > "element" refers > >to the instance. For example, your layout might have > four elements > >that use one footprint.'' > > If you're talking about PCB, please stick with PCB's > meanings of the > > terms. > > > And some design flows don't have footprints (VLSI, simulation, > > > symbolic analysis, ...), although perhaps the hydraulic design > > > process recently discussed here has something analogous ;-) > > And some programs aren't EDA programs, but that doesn't > help with his > > problem. > > > Ugh! Yuck! IDE = Inflexible, Dumbed-down Environment. > Some prefer > > > that, but shouldn't there remain toolkits for those > of us who need > > > flexibility and high productivity automation? > > Please stop trying to push your personal flow onto others :-) > > Despite you pushing your personal way of d
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 13:10 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 12:37 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > > > > > I think I have to rename all of them, including John Luciani's. > > > > > > You have components in your schematic named Rf and Cf without numbers. > These seems to have no connection in the netlist. > The missing number in refdes seems to be a problem. > > OK, seems to be all fixed now, see http://www.ssalewski.de/tmp/armin20100417.tar refdes without a digit at the end of the name seems to be indeed a big problem, I am not sure if this is stated at a prominent location in the gEDA/PCB documentation? Minus signs in footprint names can be a problem, this should be well known for people reading this list. But I do not know if this was indeed a problem for your current design, I am too lazy to rename all back to minus signs now. Best regards Stefan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 12:37 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > > I think I have to rename all of them, including John Luciani's. > > You have components in your schematic named Rf and Cf without numbers. These seems to have no connection in the netlist. The missing number in refdes seems to be a problem. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 11:57 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > > You may try including this line "skip-m4" in your project.txt file to > ignore m4 files and problems with minus sign in footprint file names. > This works, because recent PCB program has copies of all old m4 > footprints in newlib format. But it works not perfect, there is some > trouble with naming of footprint files. So it may be better to rename > your files, replacing the "-". > Ahh -- in your schematic you have footprint names like footprint=RADIAL_CAN 200 with spaces in name, I think this is calling the m4 macro processor. So "skip-m4" will not work! But at the same time you are using pcb-symbols-jcl_2008-4-25 and your own containing the problematic minus sign in file name. I think I have to rename all of them, including John Luciani's. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: input/output ports gschem
DO-41.fp is a footprint of the Luciani-collection as well. Armin Faltl wrote: As Stefan Salewski reported, I missed in my attachments: RES-1016-630-240.fp -> RES-1016P-630L-240D__Yageo-MFR-25.fp is a symbolic link I made to a Luciani footprint. Sorry for the inconvenience. Armin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: input/output ports gschem
As Stefan Salewski reported, I missed in my attachments: RES-1016-630-240.fp -> RES-1016P-630L-240D__Yageo-MFR-25.fp is a symbolic link I made to a Luciani footprint. Sorry for the inconvenience. Armin Armin Faltl wrote: Hi, I'm new in this group but here because I seek help to fight bugs. To implement a feature, that has to be understood by several converters and ev. pcb is by no means simple. In particular the effort to save someone typing ":1" by creating a special case is much better spent for getting the basics in pcb right. So, now I know how to do it. BUT I feel like gschem could consider net=SIGNALX to be an implicit form of net=SIGNALX:1 since specifying a pin in a one pin symbol doesn't make much sense to me. I think this is a very simple feature to implement. Would be great if it does so I ask/challenge everyone on the list to point out to me, what's wrong with my schematic attached - I think nothing. Hopefully it triggers a bug with your installations as well. The culprites it was indicated to me might be bad symbols from gschem - that would be capacitor-1.sym and resistor-2.sym then - hardly used by anyone I suppose. The problem appears in the ratsnet optimizer - it's the "Can't find XXX pin N called for in netlist."-bug Here my analysis so far, in the hope that it is useful: the symbol I use is "capacitor-1.sym" from the standard library. I checked it's contents and it has 2 pins named "1" and "2". There is also another "capacitor-1.sym" in /usr/share/gEDA/sym/gnetman/capacitor-1.sym, however, the symbol information is passed to pcb only via the netlist, the generated board-file and the command-file - no explicit mention of a symbol is made in them, as opposed to the schematic, where the symbol files are referenced. After trying 3 different footprints: yours, a self-drawn and one from the m4-collection, all with the same result I'm desparate. I checked the pins 1 by 1 in the files, clearly not my primary intention. There are two another good reasons to believe, that pcb is fundamentaly broken: a) the same resistor symbol and footprint combo has 2 instances that work in the board and 1 instance, that doesn't b) when invoking the rat-optimizer, the log-messages complain about missing pins, thats names do not match to the net-pinnames, while the netlister shows the pins correctly - when I route a copper trace that is not found by the rats (disabling the auto-drc), and call the rats optizer again, I get a warning, that pin hugo-1 is shorted to some_net while in the netlister some_net cleary lists hugo-1. In the rats there is a "Can't find hu pin 1 called for..." instead. This is an indication of redundant datastructures and buggy mapping. *end analysis* It would be intelligent btw, to mention the netname on which the missing pin appears in the log output, to aid debugging - either of pcb or the schematic. Best Regards, Armin Faltl ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 01:48 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 01:15 +0200, Armin Faltl wrote: > > > use ;-) > > > > Did anyone try my schematic posted in > > http://www.seul.org/pipermail/geda-user/2010-April/046716.html > > - is the problem reproducable? > > > > I missed your problem, sorry. > > One remark: You used the minus sign "-" in your footprint names. This > can give trouble in rare cases due to m4 macro expansion. > > You may try renaming the footprint files, underscore character "_" > should work fine. OK, here are the results of closer inspection: I put your files in directory armin: ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ ls -1 Hauptplatine_v1.pcb Hauptplatine_v1.sch cap_2.5-5x11-hor.fp cap_3.5-8x11-hor.fp capr_508.fp coil_manual_R16.fp gafrc irf7413-2.sym ltc1625-1.sym project.txt ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ To make the symbols in this directory visible to gschem and friends we need this line in gafrc file: ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ cat gafrc (component-library ".") And we may need the "elements-dir ." to show gsch2pcb that we have footprints in current directory. (Of course we should use dedicated directories for symbols and footprints later...) ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ cat project.txt schematics Hauptplatine_v1.sch output-name Hauptplatine_v1 elements-dir . ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ gsch2pcb project.txt = gsch2pcb backend configuration: Variables which may be changed in gafrc: gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-command:/usr/bin/m4 gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-dir:/usr/share/pcb/m4 gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-confdir:/etc/pcb gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-path: /usr/share/pcb/m4 /etc/pcb $HOME/.pcb . gsch2pcb:m4-command-line: /usr/bin/m4 -d -I/usr/share/pcb/m4 -I/etc/pcb -I$HOME/.pcb -I. /usr/share/pcb/m4/common.m4 - >> Hauptplatine_v1.new.pcb --- Variables which may be changed in the project file: --- gsch2pcb:use-m4:yes = Using the m4 processor for pcb footprints Rf: can't find PCB element for footprint RES-1016-630-240.fp (value=4.7R) So device Rf will not be in the layout. R1: can't find PCB element for footprint RES-1016-630-240.fp (value=3.92k_1%) So device R1 will not be in the layout. R2: can't find PCB element for footprint RES-1016-630-240.fp (value=35.7k_1%) So device R2 will not be in the layout. C_Vcc: can't find PCB element for footprint CAPPR-200P-500D-1100L-50d__Nichicon (value=4.7u) So device C_Vcc will not be in the layout. Db: can't find PCB element for footprint DO-41.fp (value=unknown) So device Db will not be in the layout. -- Done processing. Work performed: 5 file elements and 3 m4 elements added to Hauptplatine_v1.new.pcb. 5 elements could not be found. So Hauptplatine_v1.new.pcb is incomplete. Next steps: 1. Run pcb on your file Hauptplatine_v1.pcb. 2. From within PCB, select "File -> Load layout data to paste buffer" and select Hauptplatine_v1.new.pcb to load the new footprints into your existing layout. 3. From within PCB, select "File -> Load netlist file" and select Hauptplatine_v1.net to load the updated netlist. 4. From within PCB, enter :ExecuteFile(Hauptplatine_v1.cmd) to update the pin names of all footprints. ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ locate -i RES-1016-630 ste...@amd64x2 ~/armin $ Seems that footptints files are missing on my box, so it is difficult to do further testing. Maybe this already helps. You may try including this line "skip-m4" in your project.txt file to ignore m4 files and problems with minus sign in footprint file names. This works, because recent PCB program has copies of all old m4 footprints in newlib format. But it works not perfect, there is some trouble with naming of footprint files. So it may be better to rename your files, replacing the "-". Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Not because of the bugs I ran into but since choosing a footprint is a difficult process in it self I was longing for a footprint browser. The easiest place to start a clean implementation may be gattrib, that I found conventient to duplicate footprint choices, once one has been assigned gschem. However, the best overview of what is what and therefore choose the right footprint is probably gschem. With gschem open, gattrib should work however, if one remembers, that gschem is in "read only" then. The problem could be split out of gschem, if it were better supported, to assign a physical part to the symbol. This will probably help other tools too, since e.g. a Spice model is tied to a part, not to a bunch of lines with pins (symbol). I first thought "device" were the thing to use, but in the standard library it's occupied by names like CAPACITOR_POLARIZED which says noting about rated voltage or ESR. Any ideas? Just my 2 cents Matthew Wilkins wrote: It seems like there is room to add a footprint selector utility that would interface between gschem/gattrib and PCB without impacting non-PCB users in any way. In fact if PCB had an HID where it just starts up as a footprint browser and nothing else, you could use PCB itself to assign footprints to symbols from within gschem or gattrib. An option in the gschem config file could allow users to define a command line to start PCB in that mode, and PCB would output the selected footprint attribute value before exiting. Users of other workflows might be able to use a similar type of browser utility to work with other types of libraries -- gnucap models? verilog models? I don't know if that would be useful or not... Anyway, the point is that this type of feature can be added and could be be completely invisible to other workflows, unless they want to use it. --- On Fri, 4/16/10, DJ Delorie wrote: From: DJ Delorie Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols To: "gEDA user mailing list" Received: Friday, April 16, 2010, 6:16 PM > Perhaps the shortcoming is in your expectations. I think that (1) our tools are mature enough that users should expect *some* sort of seamless integration and co-operation between them, and (2) we're mature enough to not have to insult our users when our software acts in an unexpected way. > The two projects are able to work together *because* they were > intentionally designed with clean interfaces, Irrelevent. Having clean interfaces doesn't preclude using those interfaces in a seamless manner, giving the impression of integration. > One thing that sows confusion here is that "footprint" has different > meanings Hence the Terminology chaper in the Getting Started guide, which defines what PCB means by footprint: ``A footprint is the pattern on a circuit board to which your parts are attached. This includes all copper, silk, solder mask, and paste information. In other EDA programs, this may be referred to as a "land pattern". "Footprint" sometimes is used to refer to a footprint file. "Footprint" refers to the pattern; "element" refers to the instance. For example, your layout might have four elements that use one footprint.'' If you're talking about PCB, please stick with PCB's meanings of the terms. > And some design flows don't have footprints (VLSI, simulation, > symbolic analysis, ...), although perhaps the hydraulic design > process recently discussed here has something analogous ;-) And some programs aren't EDA programs, but that doesn't help with his problem. > Ugh! Yuck! IDE = Inflexible, Dumbed-down Environment. Some prefer > that, but shouldn't there remain toolkits for those of us who need > flexibility and high productivity automation? Please stop trying to push your personal flow onto others :-) Despite you pushing your personal way of doing things (very vocally, I might add), a clear majority (not "some") of the geda users DO want a simple schematic -> pcb flow that's well integrated and easy to use. Your personal choice is *not it*. Yes, we want to make your flow *possible*, but we really need to make the "dumbed-down" environment easy to use and streamlined, because that's what most people want. > The commercial package owners have a strong incentive to restrict > the flow to tools they control, and make it easy to get sucked into > their environments. They have little incentive to give you paths to > flexibility or higher productivity once you're caught. Flexibility and ease of use should not preclude each other. ___ geda-user mailing list [1]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [2]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. file://localhost/mc/compose?to
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL crashes (workaround)
Peter Clifton wrote: > As a workaround for now, apply this bandaid in > src/hid/gtk/gui-output-events.c No crashes ever since :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user