Re: gEDA-user: Hierarchy Refdes and Component Values
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:23:13AM +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 00:18 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: If the refdes of a resistor in the layout reads 3R12 I know it is on page 3 of my schematics printout. Some people may read 3R12 as 3.12 OHM, I have seen such notations somewhere, i.e. 4R7 for 4.7 Ohm. At least at the area near where I live it is common to use 4k7 for 4.7k Ohm and 4R7 for 4.7 Ohm. Martin Kupec ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB: Rotating components in 45 degree
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:02:10AM +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: DJ Delorie wrote: I would be amenable to letting you own the manual in the source tree :-) Ok, I bite. I'll start sending patches that shift part of the pcb-tips to the manual. I vote for adding a word about outline layer to the manual. It was pretty hard to get known about this for me. Martin Kupec ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Test import of gEDA + PCB bugs on Launchpad
Peter Clifton wrote: I've got something for people to PLAY WITH!: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/pcb https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/geda Is it possible to have new launchpad bugs sent to gmane.comp.cad.geda.bugs like sourceforge does for geda bugs? This makes traffic on the tracker transparent in a non disturbing way. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: overlapping via changes
kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de writes: Armin Faltl wrote: you suggest it's good for something - what for? Mechanics. These deviant holes may be used to solder the pcb to a brass rod. Anyway, I don't know what use some rocket scientist may find for overlapping holes. PCB can do it, some fabs do it. So it should be documented. Rocket Scientist need to qualify everything that is even marginally unusual, over full temperature range, and mechanical loads, in vacuum. That will cost a thick branch of some big tree (10kg paperwork). Rocket science is the last place where you'll find those holes, if they can be avoided in any way :-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Stephan Böttcher FAX: +49-431-85660 Extraterrestrische PhysikTel: +49-431-880-2508 I.f.Exp.u.Angew.Physik mailto:boettc...@physik.uni-kiel.de Leibnizstr. 11, 24118 Kiel, Germany ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Toporouter crashing in GIT head on seemingly simple circuits
Hi all, In particular Anthony - whose wonderful project this is. Toporouter looks great, but I can't get it to behave for me. In fact, it's doing a wonderful job of crashing PCB with a seg fault I'm not sure quite what the protocol for reporting bugs like this is, and whether I should be targeting this into the SFnet bug tracker, so please feel free to point me at something else. I've attached the file that is causing the problems. I may be doing something VERY stupid, but I don't think so. I literally load said file, and then type :Toporouter() and it crashes PCB. The Backtrace from GDB says: = BEGIN TRACE = Starting program: /home/chris/Applications/usr/bin/pcb [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] [New Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 491)] [New Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 492)] [Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 492) exited] [New Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 511)] [New Thread 0xb4163b70 (LWP 512)] [New Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 513)] [Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 513) exited] [Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 511) exited] [Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 491) exited] [New Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 518)] [Thread 0xb4163b70 (LWP 512) exited] [New Thread 0xb4163b70 (LWP 523)] [New Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 524)] [New Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 525)] [New Thread 0xb3161b70 (LWP 526)] [New Thread 0xb2960b70 (LWP 527)] [New Thread 0xb215fb70 (LWP 528)] [New Thread 0xb195eb70 (LWP 529)] [New Thread 0xb115db70 (LWP 530)] [New Thread 0xb095cb70 (LWP 531)] [Thread 0xb095cb70 (LWP 531) exited] [Thread 0xb195eb70 (LWP 529) exited] [Thread 0xb3161b70 (LWP 526) exited] [Thread 0xb215fb70 (LWP 528) exited] [Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 525) exited] [Thread 0xb115db70 (LWP 530) exited] [Thread 0xb2960b70 (LWP 527) exited] [Thread 0xb4163b70 (LWP 523) exited] [Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 518) exited] [New Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 540)] [Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 540) exited] [New Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 549)] [New Thread 0xb4163b70 (LWP 550)] [New Thread 0xb2960b70 (LWP 551)] [New Thread 0xb115db70 (LWP 552)] [New Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 553)] [Thread 0xb2960b70 (LWP 551) exited] [Thread 0xb3962b70 (LWP 553) exited] [Thread 0xb115db70 (LWP 552) exited] [Thread 0xb5317b70 (LWP 549) exited] [Thread 0xb49ffb70 (LWP 524) exited] finished finished v2 of c1 on c2 v2 of c1 on c2 Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. build_cdt (r=0x8452990, l=0x840dc70) at toporouter.c:2422 2422GTS_POINT(v)-z = vz(c1v1); (gdb) bt #0 build_cdt (r=0x8452990, l=0x840dc70) at toporouter.c:2422 #1 0x080ef9ed in import_geometry (r=0x8452990) at toporouter.c:2940 #2 0x080f6e9c in toporouter (argc=0, argv=0x0, x=28428, y=53714) at toporouter.c:7939 #3 0x080deaa1 in hid_actionv (name=0x84552d8 Toporouter, argc=0, argv=0x0) at hid/common/actions.c:246 #4 0x080dee72 in hid_parse_actionstring (rstr=value optimised out, require_parens=value optimised out) at hid/common/actions.c:330 #5 0x080fea37 in ghid_handle_user_command (raise=1) at hid/gtk/gui-command-window.c:473 #6 0x080f9862 in Command (argc=0, argv=0x0, x=0, y=0) at hid/gtk/gtkhid-main.c:1245 #7 0x080deaa1 in hid_actionv (name=0x84105a8 Command, argc=0, argv=0x0) at hid/common/actions.c:246 #8 0x080dee72 in hid_parse_actionstring (rstr=value optimised out, require_parens=value optimised out) at hid/common/actions.c:330 #9 0x08112ff8 in ghid_menu_cb (action=0x82a9868, data=0x8189b80) at hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c:631 #10 0x00a2693c in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #11 0x00a17412 in g_closure_invoke () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #12 0x00a2d595 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #13 0x00a2e9bc in g_signal_emit_valist () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 ---Type return to continue, or q return to quit--- #14 0x00a2ee62 in g_signal_emit () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #15 0x002ed325 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #16 0x002efe94 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #17 0x00a17412 in g_closure_invoke () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #18 0x00a2d595 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #19 0x00a2e83b in g_signal_emit_valist () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #20 0x00a2ee62 in g_signal_emit () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #21 0x002e8db1 in gtk_accel_group_activate () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #22 0x002e8eb5 in gtk_accel_groups_activate () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #23 0x0050a954 in gtk_window_activate_key () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #24 0x0050a9dc in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #25 0x003c6284 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #26 0x00a15a87 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #27 0x00a17412 in g_closure_invoke () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #28 0x00a2d1e6 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #29 0x00a2e83b in g_signal_emit_valist () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #30 0x00a2ee62 in g_signal_emit () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #31 0x004f4b96 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #32 0x003be933 in
Re: gEDA-user: Toporouter crashing in GIT head on seemingly simple circuits
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 11:07 +, Chris Malton wrote: I'd love to actually help fix this bug, and/or figure out what I'm doing wrong, but I can't make head or tail of where I should be investigating. I'd like to point out that the normal autorouter can complete routing the circuit, and so can I by hand. The normal autorouter uses the outline layer (which is not a good idea as the company I use for making PCBs uses that for cuts!) Switch off any layers you don't want the autorouter(s) to use. If you need to constrain routing to with an outline, make a copy of the outline edge on the copper layers being routed. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Test import of gEDA + PCB bugs on Launchpad
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 12:07 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: I've got something for people to PLAY WITH!: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/pcb https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/geda Is it possible to have new launchpad bugs sent to gmane.comp.cad.geda.bugs like sourceforge does for geda bugs? This makes traffic on the tracker transparent in a non disturbing way. Indeed, (and they will also get emailed to individual subscribers to bugs). I don't think the staging server will be sending emails out.. I certainly haven't configured it to do so. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Converting measurements
The coordinate system that is used in the *.fp files does not make sense to me. I tried converting a pad 47 mil by 27 mil into what is used in the actual file, but I can't make it come out correctly. I was using a sample SOD-123 pad and converting it to mils, but what I come up with does not make any sense. Anyone have any insights on what I might be doing wrong. I am using the new style with [ which is 1/100 of mil. Z.K. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: bugs, warts and feature requests (3)
kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de writes: From my notes: • pcb feature request: Please put all the gerbers in a dedicated subdir of the working directory by default. The name of the subdir should be configurable. Any default will seldom be what I'd need, since either the directory name or the filename base will contain some version number. I usualle append /v01 to the provided default. To default to a subdirectory instead of a base filename in the cwd saves typing a /. The . in .group1, etc should then be removed from the generated filename extensions. I.e., default: LAYOUT_NAME/File: LAYOUT_NAME/group1.gbr default: LAYOUT_NAME.File: LAYOUT_NAME.group1.gbr default: `date +LAYOUT_NAME.%Y%m%d.` File: LAYOUT_NAME/20101223.group1.gbr • pcb feature request: Optionally zip all gerbers and the cnc files to yield a single file that can be sent to the fab. The name of the zip file might contain the current date. That will miss the README.txt, that I always add to the package, so that the vendor knows exacly what the layer order is, and that the silk and paste layers shall be ignored, etc. And there should always be a review of the gerbers with gerbv before submission, so gerbv needs to learn to open .zip files, without barfing at the manually added README :-) • pcb usability: pcb just complains on stdout if gerber output is advised to put the gerbers to a non existing path. Suggestion: pop up a warning dialog. Or just mkdir -p the directory ? • pcb feature request: add a square property to tracks and lines. • pcb feature request: Currently, text gets lost during convert buffer to elements. Proposal: Convert text in silk to lines in silk. Convert text in copper to overlapping pads. I guess, it is possible to reuse the already existing render routines to do the conversion. Would developer time not better be invested in supporting text (arcs, planes) on copper and silk layers in an element? • gnetlist bug: gsch2pcb produced invalid pcb syntax if footprint names contain a hyphen. The work flow will fail somewhere down the road with unspecific symptoms. This is a nasty, but long standing newbie trap that really should be defused one way or another. Please comment. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ? (was: Toporouter crashing in GIThead on seemingly simple circuits)
Hi KMK, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of kai-martin knaak Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:08 PM To: geda-u...@seul.org Subject: Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ? (was: Toporouter crashing in GIThead on seemingly simple circuits) Bert Timmerman wrote: Why not create a wikibook ? Great idea! I am in for starting such a book. Also count me in for tips and tricks of wikipedia formating. My other computer activity is the physics department in German wikipedia... Of course, a wikibook can't replace the pcb manual. Important parts of the manual are automatically derived from source comments. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 Just MHO I don't think it's a Good Thing (TM) that a User Manual is derived from source code files, for this would require a person with gEDA-dev priviliges to push changes into the git repository. This workflow raises the threshold to contribute to user documentation and adds to the burden of the gEDA-devs (they have ample time for reviewing patches). In the past we have __had__ an experiment with noweb for gaf (past tense for good reasons), I'd rather keep things simple. If documentation needs to be generated from source code files let it just be (API reference) docs for (future/newbie) gEDA-devs and use Doxygen in pcb too (for obvious reasons). /MHO Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Converting measurements
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 04:50 -0800, blueeag...@gmail.com wrote: The coordinate system that is used in the *.fp files does not make sense to me. I tried converting a pad 47 mil by 27 mil into what is used in the actual file, but I can't make it come out correctly. I was using a sample SOD-123 pad and converting it to mils, but what I come up with does not make any sense. Anyone have any insights on what I might be doing wrong. I am using the new style with [ which is 1/100 of mil. Z.K. Also, if you want, you can postfix with a unit.. something like 1 mm or such. I'm guessing that you might be being tripped by offsets at the end of pads? __ | | | + + | |__| If + are the end coordinates, you still have extension beyond that due to the thickness of the line. Just a guess. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question about gschem, SPICE, and schematic subsheets
On Dec 22, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Young, Michael I. (DFRC-SR) wrote: Hello, I have been playing around with one of the examples given in the distribution for an RF_Amp in an attempt to learn how to use gschem with SPICE. I noticed that you don't seem to be able to go down the schematic tree into the Q1 and Q2 schematics. When I looked inside it looks like you have to terminate the ports on the SPICE subcircuit with spice-subcircuit-IO-1.sym instead of an in-1.sym or out-1.sym. For SPICE and other hierarchical netlist formats, you generally do not want to let gEDA flatten the netlist, printed circuit style. Because the hierarchy semantics are in the core code of gnetlist where a Guile back end or plug in has little control, you must use a different approach to hierarchy. The design of gschem/gnetlist is unusually good when it comes to keeping semantics out of the core code, but it's not perfect. So, we have radical flexibility combined with occasional frustrating roadblocks. I am guessing that this, as well as no pinlabels in BJT_Model.sym, Lack of pinlabels is no problem here: gschem (correctly: it's a graphics editor!) ignores the non-graphical semantics of network connections. If it interpreted those semantics, it would get them wrong here. is why you can't go into the Q? Schematics. You can't go there because there are no source= attributes associated with the symbols. Leaving those out is one way to prevent the flattening of hierarchy. But it's not the only way. Is there any way to set this up so you can drop into the Q? Schematics in gschem? Either put the appropriate source= attributes into the symbols, or attach them at schematic level. To prevent gnetlist from attempting to flatten the hierarchy, put the following line in the gafrc file: (hierarchy-traversal disabled) John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Armin Faltl wrote: John Doty wrote: On Dec 19, 2010, at 6:38 AM, kai-martin knaak wrote: Everybody has their own working style: the library cannot possibly cover everybody's. True. However it does not preclude the existence of a library that reasonably matches the needs of a large group of users. The other EDA packages I had the chance to work with, did a much better job at the library front. You could get quite far with their default library. My eagle oriented colleagues hardly dive into the symbol and/or footprint creation business. And they can't go all the places gEDA can go. There is nothing whatever preventing somebody from constructing a symbol library that matches *their* notion of a reasonable gEDA flow. Publish on gedasymbols. I can't stand the reiteration of this stupid argument any longer. Whoever offered me a page on gedasymbols, please do so now. DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com is the operator of the site. I'll provide my symbols and footprints with this features: * symbols are smaller than the standard library * all symbols and footprints are guaranteed to conform to IPC-7351B by definition with some shortcut-names as I like them as links * where IPC-7351 doesn't define behaviour there is an auxiliarry document describing what is done Excellent! Go for it! For extra credit, make the symbols friendly to the SPICE flows we have. But that's a bunch of extra work, and there are some serious difficulties with making symbols both SPICE-friendly and pcb-friendly at this time. I certainly won't object if you don't try to go there. Download-count will decide, who is right. There is no right. There are many ways to use gEDA. The folks who design hydraulic systems with gEDA won't use your symbols, but that doesn't make them wrong. A symbol library specifically designed for a particular purpose is a good thing, period. But a popularity contest is not a good way to judge the most effective software. If your library enables a single significant product to come out of gEDA (such as Matt Ettus's USRP), you should count that as a major success. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ? (was: Toporouter crashing in GIThead on seemingly simple circuits)
Bert Timmerman bert.timmer...@xs4all.nl writes: I don't think it's a Good Thing (TM) that a User Manual is derived from source code files, for this would require a person with gEDA-dev priviliges to push changes into the git repository. I originally envisioned four manuals for PCB: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/ The first two obviously must be hand-written; a wikibook would be appropriate for those (although I already wrote the first). The second two are more likely to benefit from source extraction and tighter control. I don't mind giving push privs to doc maintainers. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
Armin Faltl wrote: Whoever offered me a page on gedasymbols, please do so now. IIRC, this should be DJ Delorie Welcome to the exclusive club of gedasymbols contributors! ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 15:18 +0100, Armin Faltl wrote: I'll provide my symbols and footprints with this features: * symbols are smaller than the standard library Why? I think the only reason to shrink all symbols is because relation to default text size? (Note, we can always enlarge title block.) Of course we should ensure that the active pin end rest on 100 multiples of grid. Graphics ending on odd grid points may be ok, but personally I prefer integer values of 100, 50, 25, 10 only... I think when I considered symbols shape last time, I was thinking about enlarging OpAmp symbols, it was my feeling that they are small compared to diodes... And for my taste text default size is to large in 1.6.x printout, I patched that. Maybe in near future I will use my Ruby gschem clone for printout... I hope to see your contributions soon... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com writes: Bert Timmerman bert.timmer...@xs4all.nl writes: I don't think it's a Good Thing (TM) that a User Manual is derived from source code files, for this would require a person with gEDA-dev priviliges to push changes into the git repository. I originally envisioned four manuals for PCB: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/ The first two obviously must be hand-written; a wikibook would be appropriate for those (although I already wrote the first). The second two are more likely to benefit from source extraction and tighter control. I don't mind giving push privs to doc maintainers. Documentation of gEDA, including PCB is a huge mess, with lots of diverging efforts being attempted, but no results that I could point to. The fakt that there were three PCB FAQs highlights this nicely. And telling somebody to read the FAQ, when google first shows the two that do not provide the answer makes it much worse. There is the gEDA wiki, without an EDIT button, not even a REGISTER button, and when you click on View Source, it says This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong. without pointing to said adminstrator. That won't do. Sure, eventually I found the last paragraph on the front page to explain why it is so. Anyhow, I guess I will continuie to ignore that wiki, which is not a wiki in my eyes without an edit button. The barrier to contribute not only source code but also documentation is too high. There are way too may forks and branches around. I will not help to start even more manuals, wikibooks, whatever, without a coherent plan, which includes taking all the other stuff offline eventually. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 16:32 +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote: Documentation of gEDA, including PCB is a huge mess, [...] Indeed, I fully agree in my heart, but I have at least two good reasons why I do not call it loud: - It will discourage people to contribute - I respect the people who wrote something - I have done no contribution myself And, there is at least some fine documentation, DJs beginner Tutorial! Maybe one problem is, that most of the docs are owned by Ales, who has retired long time ago. Maybe a new platform with free access would be fine? Personally I do not think that different people can contribute really high quality documentation at all -- stupid people will contribute silly stuff, verbosity and redundancy may occur, outdated stuff will persist. But on the other hand, it is clear that a single person or small group can not do the large effort to write high quality gEDA/PCB documentation. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: overlapping via changes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:12:30 -0500 DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: I changed the overlapping vias test in two ways... 1. Via copper is now allowed to overlap when vias are created. Via *drills* are not. 2. Vias which violate this rule in a *.pcb file are preserved at load time. Thus, PCB will make a modest attempt at preventing users from making vias that might be difficult to manufacture, but if the user finds a way around the restriction, PCB will let them get away with it. Simply moving an existing via is an adequate way around it. I think this should trigger a non-copper DRC error. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing lines (schematic editor)
Den 2010-12-22 20:58:21 skrev kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de: DJ Delorie wrote: Click on each corner as you go, to force the line to go where you want. If the line wants to jump to places you don't like, press ctrl while dragging the line with the mouse. ---)kaimartin(--- Thanks! That works perfectly for me! I thought I tried that before, but obviously I didn't do it properly (I experimented with Shift, Ctrl and Alt, but maybe I was just too fast or something…). -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
Stefan Salewski wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 15:18 +0100, Armin Faltl wrote: I'll provide my symbols and footprints with this features: * symbols are smaller than the standard library Why? There are many request from various people for smaller symbols on this list. When used at normal scale the symbols of std. parts look clumsy to me too, so I didn't complain but made smaler ones. I think, that shrinking by using wrong page frames for printing is a good trick but a bad solution. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 22:38 +0100, Armin Faltl wrote: Stefan Salewski wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 15:18 +0100, Armin Faltl wrote: I'll provide my symbols and footprints with this features: * symbols are smaller than the standard library Why? There are many request from various people for smaller symbols on this list. When used at normal scale the symbols of std. parts look clumsy to me too, so I didn't complain but made smaler ones. I think, that shrinking by using wrong page frames for printing is a good trick but a bad solution. It is not at trick! The title block names are misleading, that is true and confuses users. But there is no reason to prefer a special title-block like A4, all are fine, some people as Kai-Martin use no real block at all, only a arbitrary rectangle and fields for text. Of course it is fine when people try to contribute, but some basic understanding of concepts may be helpful. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:11:18 +0100 Stefan Salewski m...@ssalewski.de wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 15:18 +0100, Armin Faltl wrote: I'll provide my symbols and footprints with this features: * symbols are smaller than the standard library Why? I think the only reason to shrink all symbols is because relation to default text size? (Note, we can always enlarge title block.) I have to chime in and say that I too have thought the default symbols look too large. However, after more thought I am not sure that is the full story since size of symbols is all relative, so making them all smaller won't achieve any improvement. (Except in relation to default text size, perhaps.) I haven't nailed down what it is that bothers me, but I have recently made my own versions of capacitors, resistor, diodes, and LED symbols that are more _compact_ than the gschem stock library versions. By more compact I don't mean just scaled down, but less wasted space in extra protrusions, etc. They are also a bit smaller in relation to connector and IC pin spacing so that they are easier to place in a real layout with connectors and ICs. I am still playing with this to see what works best for me, but having a compact, yet readable and uncluttered (e.g., not having to route nets far out of the way because a resistor takes up too much space). It would be interesting to see examples of what various people think are beautiful schematics in terms of the symbols. For instance, I think ChaN's schematics generally have a nice clean compact appearance (e.g., http://elm-chan.org/works/vp/vp.png). Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:05 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: It would be interesting to see examples of what various people think are beautiful schematics in terms of the symbols. For instance, I think ChaN's schematics generally have a nice clean compact appearance (e.g., http://elm-chan.org/works/vp/vp.png). Horowitz and Hill is probably a good place to look. Also, the analogue parts in the above schematic is nice (aside from complete lack of anti-aliasing), but I don't rate the layout of the connectors or digital parts. Not sure what it is.. but they seem a little cramped. Also, the preset resistor looks somehow cramped compared to the nicely proportioned resistors. I think they are the same size though. Perhaps both need lengthening a tiny bit. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:05 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: smaller won't achieve any improvement. (Except in relation to default text size, perhaps.) That is very similar to my thinking. I have to admit that I have complained about too large text in 1.6.x printout, but now I think its my own fault, I have populated the title block to dense. (But still, I would like a function to scale all text.) Symbols look all different, in various professional documents. So we may discuss the relation in size between symbols, pin length, line thickness, aspect ratio, placement of text. Shrinking all -- well, sometimes I do waste my time too. A point I was really thinking about was placement of text, various shapes/rotations/sizes in one file, and invisible text. It may make sense to have an easy ways to select different shapes/sizes/rotations of the same symbol. We may do that by placing the data in the same file, so we can easy select it, or link different shapes together by filenames. A popup box may provide different shapes. We may consider text boxes, which can have different content, i.e. a primary box, which can show refdes in one view, or value in another view, and secondary boxes, which can show footprint, spice-model... And I am not really happy with handling of invisible text. We handle it like visible text, but hide it. So we have to position it carefully, just in case we may make it visible for changing. Maybe some text, like version, license, datasheet, which is always invisible, should be a special class, which is always accessed from editing window. Something like gattrib build in into gschem. Sorry, I have no solution currently. Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor (/usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym, my operating system is Ubuntu 10.10) but the position of the value needs to be adjusted a bit. How can I do that? It should look like this: –––[390kΩ]––– But it rather looks like this: –39[0kΩ ]––– The value needs to be centred, rather than aligned to the left. I also looked a bit into the /usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym file, but I'm too much of a newbie to make any relevant changes to such files that actually work… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:00 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor You can change the alignment mark of text, select the text, and select Edit/Edit Text from menu. In the popup window there is an alignment field. Not sure if that was your problem, sorry. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ? (was: Toporouter crashing in GIThead on seemingly simple circuits)
Bert Timmerman wrote: I don't think it's a Good Thing (TM) that a User Manual is derived from source code files, for this would require a person with gEDA-dev priviliges to push changes into the git repository. Fair enough. Anyway, the current situation is like this: pcb: The distribution contains a manual which relies heavily on source code supplied content (actions). It is written in texinfo format. The manual is mainly organized as a reference to the functions of pcb. There is a fairly comprehensive manual on footprint generation written by Stephen Meier and Stuart Brorson. DJ Delorie recently wrote a turorial on how to get started with pcb. gschem: A user guide in the dokuwiki at gpleda. This guide goes through the parts of the GUI and describes what they do. Except for some more recent features, this it seems fairly up to date. There is no much info on guile. Interaction with pcb and simulation tools is mentioned but not elaborated. xgsch2pcb is not mentioned at all. There much less HOWTO information than I would expect from a complete user manual. gnetlist: There is a user guide in the wiki. Some information is out of date. For example, according to the guide all symbols must contain a device attribute. Some important aspects like hierarchy support and specific backend info are not covered at all. There is some backend information scattered among READMEs, though. gnucap and ngspice: Their distribution comes with comprehensive manuals in PDF format -- literally hundreds of pages. I can't say much about the content because I still have not used these simulators for real projects. Both manuals are not specific to gschem. There is a HOWTO in the wiki written by Stuart Brorson which covers the use of ngspice with gschem. Icarus Verilog: I can't comment on this since I have never been close to design FPGAs and the like. other geda tools (gerbv, gattrib, wcalc, mcalc, GTKWave): No manuals, just man pages and READMEs. What is missing in this picture? IMHO, it is a manual on how to use the tools in concert. The best approximation so far is the tutorial by Bill Wilson. But as it is a beginners tutorial, it does not attempt to cover more advanced tips and tricks. I envision this as the topic a wikibook: A user manual to the complete suite of tools. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 00:08:41 skrev Stefan Salewski m...@ssalewski.de: On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:00 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor You can change the alignment mark of text, select the text, and select Edit/Edit Text from menu. In the popup window there is an alignment field. Not sure if that was your problem, sorry. Well, I'm a beginner so maybe I'm just doing it the wrong way or using the wrong tools. Here's what I do: Draw a resistor somewhere (Add component → Basic devices → resistor-2.sym). Right click the resistor and select ”Edit…”. Add attribute → Name: → Select ”value”. Value: → Enter ”390kΩ”. Click ”Add”. ☑ Visible ⇨ Select ”Show value only”. Click ”Close”. Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. Am I doing this right at all? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Value: → Enter ”390k”. Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. Am I doing this right at all? May it be related to your OHM sign? I never use it, and I do not see it often in professional sheets. It ok if you want it, may work if gschem supports it and your box in configured fine, i.e. for utf-8. Please try without that sign for testing, maybe you can provide a picture of the problem. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:38 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Value: → Enter ”390k”. Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. Am I doing this right at all? Ah, now I understand you problem: You want to place the text inside the box of the (german) rectangular resister box. Well, you can move the text whereever you want. Grab it with the left mouse key and move it. It may be useful to align center, and it may be necessary to decrease font size. Sorry, have not used -- 123k -- layout ever. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Johnny Rosenberg gurus.knu...@gmail.com writes: Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor (/usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym, my operating system is Ubuntu 10.10) but the position of the value needs to be adjusted a bit. How can I do that? It should look like this: –––[390kΩ]––– But it rather looks like this: –39[0kΩ ]––– The value needs to be centred, rather than aligned to the left. Did you try to just move the text? Select the text (not the component, just the text of the value attibute), type e x, or (Edit-Edit Text) select Middle-Middle alignment move the alignment mark to the center of the resistor. For further resistors, copy this resistor, so you do not need to allign every instance again. Attach a footprint attribute first, so that is copied as well, with your favorite resistor footprint. I also looked a bit into the /usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym file, but I'm too much of a newbie to make any relevant changes to such files that actually work… You can open a symbol file in gschem to make changes, and save the changed version for your project. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
Colin D Bennett wrote: I haven't nailed down what it is that bothers me, but I have recently made my own versions of capacitors, resistor, diodes, and LED symbols that are more _compact_ than the gschem stock library versions. By more compact I don't mean just scaled down, but less wasted space in extra protrusions, etc. They are also a bit smaller in relation to connector and IC pin spacing so that they are easier to place in a real layout with connectors and ICs. exactly, I also prefer 200 spacing on larger parts to 300 and clumsy numbering ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:05 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: I haven't nailed down what it is that bothers me, but I have recently made my own versions of capacitors, resistor, diodes, and LED symbols that are more _compact_ than the gschem stock library versions. One point which confuse me still, is why line width of many symbols shipped with gEDA is 0. Is that really a good solution? When zooming in, green lines stays very thin, while pins become thicker. For printout there seems to be a special line width patch? I do understand that zero line width can be useful, i.e. to determine the smallest possible width of an output device. And zero width will remain still thin when zoomed in. But I do not understand why this is really useful for symbol graphics. For Cairo very this lines vanish, so additional consideration is needed when drawing symbols... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Here's what I do: Draw a resistor somewhere (Add component → Basic devices → resistor-2.sym). Oh my, a symbol without a value attribute! I forgot, just how light the default library symbols are. Can anyone point me to a reason? Why do we distribute the default library in such a crippled state? Yes, a default library can only be a starting point and cannot fit everybody's needs. But does the starting point really have to be so poor that it fits virtually nobody's needs? Right click the resistor and select ”Edit…”. Add attribute → Name: → Select ”value”. Value: → Enter ”390kΩ”. Click ”Add”. ☑ Visible ⇨ Select ”Show value only”. Click ”Close”. If you want to fit the value inside the box of the resistor, the best way would be to change the alignment of the text from bottom-left to middle-left: 1) select the text: click on the symbol -- The whole symbol gets highlighted then click on the text -- only the text is highlighted 2) type [ex] -- edit-text-properties dialog appears click on the chooser right of Alignment choose Middle Left click ok 3) type [m] -- the text is attached to the mouse cursor move the mouse so that the text is at the desired position left mouse click -- the text detaches from the mouse cursor You may take a look at the symbols in http://gedasymbols.org Many of them are heavy, meaning, they come with value and footprint attribute included. shameless-plug My collection is here: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/ The symbols are consistent with my footprints. /shameless-plug gedasymbols.org allows anonymous CVS access. You can download all symbols of the site to your hard disk if you wish. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
