Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:58:51AM +0530, Abhijit Kshirsagar wrote: 1. Agree! I'd find this much more intuitive and easy to work with. The layers option will be a big help... +1 I also like the ieda of dropping component/solder side, replacing it with whatever else that suggests one side and the other side. 2. What would go to the outline layer? The gerber files have outlines for each layer right? If your board is not rectangular, the outline layer would tell the fab house what shape to mill. It's sort of a hack as you draw something that looks copper but PCB supposed to handle it differently because the _name_ of the layer is outline. Regards, Tibor ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk writes: On Sun, 2011-04-10 at 19:42 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: I'm pondering a minor change in pcb's defaults to give us a more useful default stackup. How's this? LAYERNAME (1, top), LAYERNAME (2, ground), LAYERNAME (3, signal2), LAYERNAME (4, signal3), LAYERNAME (5, power), LAYERNAME (6, bottom), LAYERNAME (7, outline), LAYERNAME (8, spare), I'm very keen to see this change. The PCB+GL renderer (for example), needs layers (actually layer group numbers) in the correct physical order to be able to figure out how to render 3D views. Our current default stack is totally useless for that. I'd very much like to not have any exporters/renderers requiring the layers to be in physical order, since I tend to move the final order around a lot. My layer order is defined in the README that goes to the board house, and little text numbers in the layers. A layer attribute that tells Ben-mode and PCB+GL how to render the stack may be the way to go. Is it really the layer order, or the group order that PCB+GL or Ben-mode uses? -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
Is it really the layer order, or the group order that PCB+GL or Ben-mode uses? PCB draws in group order, not layer order. So you can order the drawing layers as you wish, as long as the group order is set to your stacking order. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
I basically agree, but why stop here and not add a Z coordinate to each layer? You deleted the answer to that: Note that this would be an interim change until we get around to either a new-board-wizard or new-means-load-template. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 03:20:11AM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: I basically agree, but why stop here and not add a Z coordinate to each layer? You deleted the answer to that: Note that this would be an interim change until we get around to either a new-board-wizard or new-means-load-template. Well, I did not really understand that paragraph. Anyeay, fine with me, although I don't really see the interest of an interim step. Regards, Gabriel ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
Well, I did not really understand that paragraph. Anyeay, fine with me, although I don't really see the interest of an interim step. I.e none of us have time right now to completely rewrite how layers work This was a fairly quick change which should make the current PCB more obviously usable to new users by pre-exposing some of the newer features and setting things up to resemble reality closer. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
$ firefox symbol.svg renders a familiar looking symbol on my debian linux machine. So, are you thinking of making a translation in and out of gschem for all the attributes a full symbol needs? Embedding the attribs in the SVG? Then being able to morph the visual shape of a symbol with well developed tools as inkscape and import into scribus for making a book out of it? That might go over well. Using SVG as the internal format for gschem symbols and pcb footprints might not go over so well as the current formats are more compact. John Yes it's copy/paste from OrCad, dont hate me ;-) So my short term goal is to come up with SVG semantics for symbols footprints that fill the following criteria; 1. Render sensibly in an un-modified browser . 2. Allow import/export to a few common EDA packages, I'm sure you know the roll call. Obviously switching the internal file format is a huge effort and I wouldn't presume to suggest that at this point. Andrew ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On 04/10/2011 04:55 PM, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. You might want to check out Fritzing (fritzing.org). It targets non-EEs, but they have all of their graphics in SVG. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
The idea of basing future formats on SVG has been thought of, floated, and discussed before now. I don't recall whether any conclusions were reached. I personally have mixed feelings, but am leaning towards the the thought that it is a good idea - but with a healthy dose of uneasiness about it as well. When I designed path support in gschem, I deliberately made the path syntax compatible / identical to SVG paths in case we went down this route at a later stage, and that so more complex paths could be drawn in a graphics program, then copy+pasted from an SVG file. libgeda only saves (and guarantees to load) simple line and bezier curve based paths, but an implementation detail (due to code re-use from librsvg), it can actually read any legal SVG path in its path primitive. When saving, it always converts that out to simple lines and beziers. I'm not as convinced of the idea for PCB layouts / footprints. I'm just not certain the drawing model is constrained enough. to match real world geometry demands. The main niggle is that SVG is more expressive than a generic PCB layer. Things like colours and gradient fills are just not meaningful in copper. That means we need to act intelligently if something adds those. Supporting complex geometry primitives which SVG would bring also means internal processing in PCB might get more difficult. -- Peter Clifton Yes I see some work was done into an XML file format before, will try and dig up the SVG discussion. I cant see any real technical benefit to gEDA in using SVG to be honest. The benefit is the warm fuzzy feeling your average hardware developer/pcb designer would get when they double click on the file and a nice representation opens up in the browser. My premise is that this alone would increase adoption of the format and any tools which use it. There are also knock on benefits in terms of communicating design intent to production houses etc. The hard part is going to be constraining and augmenting SVG so as to produce a dialect which can; 1. Be translated to common EDA formats with relatively simple algorithms 2. Display nicely on standard SVG viewers 3. Be easily to manipulate by tools working natively in the format (this is probably implicit in 1 though) Keen to hear why this idea sucks! --- Andrew ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
$ firefox symbol.svg renders a familiar looking symbol on my debian linux machine. So, are you thinking of making a translation in and out of gschem for all the attributes a full symbol needs? Embedding the attribs in the SVG? Then being able to morph the visual shape of a symbol with well developed tools as inkscape and import into scribus for making a book out of it? That might go over well. Using SVG as the internal format for gschem symbols and pcb footprints might not go over so well as the current formats are more compact. John Yes it's copy/paste from OrCad, dont hate me ;-) So my short term goal is to come up with SVG semantics for symbols footprints that fill the following criteria; 1. Render sensibly in an un-modified browser . 2. Allow import/export to a few common EDA packages, I'm sure you know the roll call. Obviously switching the internal file format is a huge effort and I wouldn't presume to suggest that at this point. Andrew ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Fwd: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
The idea of basing future formats on SVG has been thought of, floated, and discussed before now. I don't recall whether any conclusions were reached. I personally have mixed feelings, but am leaning towards the the thought that it is a good idea - but with a healthy dose of uneasiness about it as well. When I designed path support in gschem, I deliberately made the path syntax compatible / identical to SVG paths in case we went down this route at a later stage, and that so more complex paths could be drawn in a graphics program, then copy+pasted from an SVG file. libgeda only saves (and guarantees to load) simple line and bezier curve based paths, but an implementation detail (due to code re-use from librsvg), it can actually read any legal SVG path in its path primitive. When saving, it always converts that out to simple lines and beziers. I'm not as convinced of the idea for PCB layouts / footprints. I'm just not certain the drawing model is constrained enough. to match real world geometry demands. The main niggle is that SVG is more expressive than a generic PCB layer. Things like colours and gradient fills are just not meaningful in copper. That means we need to act intelligently if something adds those. Supporting complex geometry primitives which SVG would bring also means internal processing in PCB might get more difficult. -- Peter Clifton Yes I see some work was done into an XML file format before, will try and dig up the SVG discussion. I cant see any real technical benefit to gEDA in using SVG to be honest. The benefit is the warm fuzzy feeling your average hardware developer/pcb designer would get when they double click on the file and a nice representation opens up in the browser. My premise is that this alone would increase adoption of the format and any tools which use it. There are also knock on benefits in terms of communicating design intent to production houses etc. The hard part is going to be constraining and augmenting SVG so as to produce a dialect which can; 1. Be translated to common EDA formats with relatively simple algorithms 2. Display nicely on standard SVG viewers 3. Be easily to manipulate by tools working natively in the format (this is probably implicit in 1 though) Keen to hear why this idea sucks! --- Andrew ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 13:05 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: 1. Be translated to common EDA formats with relatively simple algorithms 2. Display nicely on standard SVG viewers 3. Be easily to manipulate by tools working natively in the format (this is probably implicit in 1 though) Keen to hear why this idea sucks! It doesn't. Some challenges to be met though. If you make schematics == SVG files, you need to ensure that opening and saving from an SVG editor (e.g. Inkscape) won't break the data within. Gschem currently uses special primitives to mark connectivity - nets, pins, buses etc.. I'm not quite clear how that can be mapped to SVG in a way which doesn't loose that information when edited outside of the EDA tool. Perhaps 2x way is too much to hope for though.. and we can just rely on the fact our files will render as an SVG. XCircuit does this with postscript files. Btw - I have a branch lurking about which emits SVG onto the clipboard when copy+pasting within gschem. That lets you paste from gschem straight into Inkscape. The net and pin end-cues aren't quite right with it though. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA
You might want to check out Fritzing (fritzing.org). It targets non-EEs, but they have all of their graphics in SVG. Great link, I havent seen this project before. They have some usefull info on SVG in this context, particularly the use of http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/ . A lot of their issues stem from trying to import SVG's made by generic drawing packages. I'm more interested in keeping the editing to domain specific tools but allow viewing in general purpose packages. p.s sorry for the double post earlier, I do some funky email routing and got confused! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
Yeah I think allowing a file to be saved by a general purpose tool will be really tricky, as we'd have to account for everything that might happen. Inkscape does weird stuff to SVG's even if you just open and save straight away. I dont really think that mode of operation is super useful anyway. I cant imagine wanting to edit a pcb/schematic in Inkscape any time soon, though it would be nice for say drawing a logo or something. I'd say that kind of support would be a longer term goal. I suppose my sole purpose for SVG right now is the warm fuzzy feeling of viewing in a browser :-) On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 13:05 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: 1. Be translated to common EDA formats with relatively simple algorithms 2. Display nicely on standard SVG viewers 3. Be easily to manipulate by tools working natively in the format (this is probably implicit in 1 though) Keen to hear why this idea sucks! It doesn't. Some challenges to be met though. If you make schematics == SVG files, you need to ensure that opening and saving from an SVG editor (e.g. Inkscape) won't break the data within. Gschem currently uses special primitives to mark connectivity - nets, pins, buses etc.. I'm not quite clear how that can be mapped to SVG in a way which doesn't loose that information when edited outside of the EDA tool. Perhaps 2x way is too much to hope for though.. and we can just rely on the fact our files will render as an SVG. XCircuit does this with postscript files. Btw - I have a branch lurking about which emits SVG onto the clipboard when copy+pasting within gschem. That lets you paste from gschem straight into Inkscape. The net and pin end-cues aren't quite right with it though. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Sun, 2011-04-10 at 21:55 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. What would be the benefit of SVG? Arbitrary symbol sizes? We can scale our current symbols already, but a schematic with very many different symbol sizes will look strange. Indeed limited scaling may be fine, ie. scaling our 900 units long resistor to 800 or 1000 units length -- but pins should always end on a 100 grid multiple. (no that is not really needed to connect nets, but for ordered look.) Currently SVG export should be a trivial task due to cairo -- similar to PS and PDF export. Filled SVG paths are fine, we have it, still without editing support. Do we need other fancy graphics? I do not think so. Schematics design is not really art work. If we really want full SVG, we may consider a Schematic Mode for Inkscape. But Inkscape is really a large, complex tool. If it is possible to embedd all the elelectronics stuff like attributes, net connection, slots, ... in SVG file, then it may be OK. But the effort -- it is similar to a complete rewrite of gschem. And a rewrite -- again C and guile and GTK? PS: We may consider using inkscapes svg icon set for geda/pcb. Inkspape is GPL, so it should be OK. You may look at files /usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/share/inkscape/icons/tango_icons.svg Very nice icon set, I intend using it for my plain ruby gschem clone. Best regards, Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Sun, 2011-04-10 at 21:55 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. What would be the benefit of SVG? Arbitrary symbol sizes? We can scale our current symbols already, but a schematic with very many different symbol sizes will look strange. Indeed limited scaling may be fine, ie. scaling our 900 units long resistor to 800 or 1000 units length -- but pins should always end on a 100 grid multiple. (no that is not really needed to connect nets, but for ordered look.) Currently SVG export should be a trivial task due to cairo -- similar to PS and PDF export. Filled SVG paths are fine, we have it, still without editing support. Do we need other fancy graphics? I do not think so. Schematics design is not really art work. If we really want full SVG, we may consider a Schematic Mode for Inkscape. But Inkscape is really a large, complex tool. If it is possible to embedd all the elelectronics stuff like attributes, net connection, slots, ... in SVG file, then it may be OK. But the effort -- it is similar to a complete rewrite of gschem. And a rewrite -- again C and guile and GTK? PS: We may consider using inkscapes svg icon set for geda/pcb. Inkspape is GPL, so it should be OK. You may look at files /usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/share/inkscape/icons/tango_icons.svg Very nice icon set, I intend using it for my plain ruby gschem clone. Best regards, Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user So I think it might help to limit the scope of my intent initially to library parts. I'd like to create a truly vendor neutral, widely supported EDA library format, and the only way I see to do that is to piggy back on a format much larger than anything the EDA industry could ever create in isolation. I'm actually thinking more of a direct convert from the gEDA library files so as to maintain design intent, rather than ripping from the graphics layer. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk writes: On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 13:05 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: 1. Be translated to common EDA formats with relatively simple algorithms 2. Display nicely on standard SVG viewers 3. Be easily to manipulate by tools working natively in the format (this is probably implicit in 1 though) Keen to hear why this idea sucks! It doesn't. Some challenges to be met though. If you make schematics == SVG files, you need to ensure that opening and saving from an SVG editor (e.g. Inkscape) won't break the data within. Gschem currently uses special primitives to mark connectivity - nets, pins, buses etc.. I'm not quite clear how that can be mapped to SVG in a way which doesn't loose that information when edited outside of the EDA tool. Does SVG/Inkscape support layers? It sure does. I recently looked at an svg export from gerbv, and I found it pretty useless. I found one object inside, and when I ungrouped that object I found all the little pieces, but not grouped into layers. And no transparency. A schematic could require nets and pins to be in special layers. When Inkscape messes with the file, as long as the layers are preseved the connectivity should survive. All non-schematic layers are graphics. So it should be easy to map the semantics of gschem to an svg subset, allow gschem to export to such a format. On open/import, the schematic is extracted from those layers/groups that have a meaning, all the rest is preserved as graphics, maybe with limited edit sorrut, like move and delete. If this shall become the primary format, I'd first insist on really good native scripting support, since external schematics scripting on svg is no fun. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On 04/11/2011 02:11 AM, Gabriel Paubert wrote: consider layers with the same Z coordinate as a layer group OK, that could be used for stackup, and also farther along, Z is a general axis designator, so would become Z position in the stackup, so your group number attrib should be some other name than Z. Why not add it? Because DJ is doing a minor change and has no time budget for a sweeping overhaul. John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA
On 04/11/2011 08:08 AM, Andrew Seddon wrote: I'm more interested in keeping the editing to domain specific tools but allow viewing in general purpose packages. Sounds good. On 04/11/2011 08:18 AM, Andrew Seddon wrote: I suppose my sole purpose for SVG right now is the warm fuzzy feeling of viewing in a browser:-) Another benefit is compact file size for publishing and documentation purposes. On 04/11/2011 08:43 AM, Andrew Seddon wrote: I'd like to create a truly vendor neutral, widely supported EDA library format A key part of that goal is specifying what are legal shapes, so vendors create shapes we can use directly, instead of having to approximate them just to load them into PCB, Fritzing, Kicad for example. In other words, no bezier curve trace bends unless your tool can handle them. No bezier curve bends in footprints. John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
I'm currently designing a power amplifier for the HF (3-30MHz) radio band. I am selecting capacitors for the low pass harmonic filter bank at the output. My question is what kind of capacitors should I use? I apply not more then 100V of say 30MHz maximum. My best bet is to use X7R capacitors with as much DC voltage rating as I can get. I don't know if there's any connection between the DC and AC losses. Thanks, Levente -- Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
Kovacs == Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com writes: Kovacs I'm currently designing a power amplifier for the HF (3-30MHz) Kovacs radio band. Kovacs I am selecting capacitors for the low pass harmonic filter bank Kovacs at the output. My question is what kind of capacitors should I Kovacs use? I apply not more then 100V of say 30MHz maximum. Kovacs My best bet is to use X7R capacitors with as much DC voltage Kovacs rating as I can get. I don't know if there's any connection Kovacs between the DC and AC losses. What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more expensive. I guess the X ceramic will introduce more harmonics than it will filter out... -- Uwe Bonnesb...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt - Tel. 06151 162516 Fax. 06151 164321 -- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
Uwe is spot on. The capacitance vs. voltage of the X7R dielectric is not very good. NP0/COG are usually specified for precision timing and filter applications. NP0/COG also have a much lower temperature coefficient. Andy. On 11 April 2011 15:58, Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: Kovacs == Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com writes: Kovacs I'm currently designing a power amplifier for the HF (3-30MHz) Kovacs radio band. Kovacs I am selecting capacitors for the low pass harmonic filter bank Kovacs at the output. My question is what kind of capacitors should I Kovacs use? I apply not more then 100V of say 30MHz maximum. Kovacs My best bet is to use X7R capacitors with as much DC voltage Kovacs rating as I can get. I don't know if there's any connection Kovacs between the DC and AC losses. What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more expensive. I guess the X ceramic will introduce more harmonics than it will filter out... -- Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt - Tel. 06151 162516 Fax. 06151 164321 -- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:58:37 +0200 Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more 120pf ... 1.5nF expensive. I guess the X ceramic will introduce more harmonics than it will filter out... Thanx for the hint. -- Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
This is what I see as a benefit. If you go to a vendor's website you will find one or two EDA footprint and symbol files. But nothing that was a bell ringer for commonality. It would be nice to have a universal starting point. There is EDIF but I see EDIF as not being so useful, i think they tried to do too many things, and failed to get them all correct. As one file format to rule them all. I rather see svg symbol format, svg footprint format, and svg format. Steve On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Andrew Seddon and...@seddon.me wrote: On Sun, 2011-04-10 at 21:55 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. What would be the benefit of SVG? Arbitrary symbol sizes? We can scale our current symbols already, but a schematic with very many different symbol sizes will look strange. Indeed limited scaling may be fine, ie. scaling our 900 units long resistor to 800 or 1000 units length -- but pins should always end on a 100 grid multiple. (no that is not really needed to connect nets, but for ordered look.) Currently SVG export should be a trivial task due to cairo -- similar to PS and PDF export. Filled SVG paths are fine, we have it, still without editing support. Do we need other fancy graphics? I do not think so. Schematics design is not really art work. If we really want full SVG, we may consider a Schematic Mode for Inkscape. But Inkscape is really a large, complex tool. If it is possible to embedd all the elelectronics stuff like attributes, net connection, slots, ... in SVG file, then it may be OK. But the effort -- it is similar to a complete rewrite of gschem. And a rewrite -- again C and guile and GTK? PS: We may consider using inkscapes svg icon set for geda/pcb. Inkspape is GPL, so it should be OK. You may look at files /usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/share/inkscape/icons/tango_icons.svg Very nice icon set, I intend using it for my plain ruby gschem clone. Best regards, Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user So I think it might help to limit the scope of my intent initially to library parts. I'd like to create a truly vendor neutral, widely supported EDA library format, and the only way I see to do that is to piggy back on a format much larger than anything the EDA industry could ever create in isolation. I'm actually thinking more of a direct convert from the gEDA library files so as to maintain design intent, rather than ripping from the graphics layer. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
http://www.avx.com/SpiApps/default.asp Some cool capacitor tools, like spicap3 Steve On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:58:37 +0200 Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more 120pf ... 1.5nF expensive. I guess the X ceramic will introduce more harmonics than it will filter out... Thanx for the hint. -- Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 08:18 +0200, Stephan Boettcher wrote: Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk writes: Is it really the layer order, or the group order that PCB+GL or Ben-mode uses? The group numbering - and I don't see any reason why we can't stipulate that is the rendering sequence. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
The group numbering - and I don't see any reason why we can't stipulate that is the rendering sequence. I think we decided that a while back. The group order *is* the stacking order. Now we just need to figure out how to enforce it :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Kovacs Levente wrote: On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:58:37 +0200 Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more 120pf ... 1.5nF Another possibility in that range is plastic film dielectrics rather than ceramic. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT?: Altium (Protel) Relocates From Sydney Australia to Shanghai China
Yea, I second the last part of the. If you have a large library of parts done in a particular tool you will have to redraft all of them. That is not good. On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 12:19 AM, ge...@igor2.repo.hu wrote: On Sat, Apr 09, 2011 at 10:51:00AM -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: snip The developers always wanted to know the fastest way to do something and had no interest in learning the best way to do something. Lately I had the chance to work together with professional software developers from multiple different western countries, and I have to tell you it is not china-specific. I think it's a generic big-company problem that you will see all around the world. Those developers work for money, not for joy, so fastest way is the only way for them, especially combined with the pressure from the management to deliver at deadline _and_ save cost (do it with less developers). In the end the company did ship Cellphones that some how did work. Is that all that maters? I hope not... Is this one company representative of all development in China? I hope not... because of the above, in that big-copmpany environment it's very common to use duct tape all around. If there is a requirement and some well defined method that will be used to tes if the requirement is met at the end, you can be almost sure the developer will implement something that will work only for that one test case and will ignore the general idea behind th erequirement or the test case. This how sleep(1) kind of fixes end up in network code. I don't say it's because those developers are stupid or even inexperienced. It's more like the whole company culture. If you want to make things properly in such an environment, it will take more time and the feedback will not be cool, you made some really robust, reusable code but next time please spend less on the golden knobs and concentrate on the task. Thus the best developers either leave after a while (either to other company or promoted to management) or they will start following the lazy methods knowing that it's not good, but i have no choice. Hopefully this will drive a lot more interest to gEDA and PCB. Honestly, I doubt. At the end once the user got used to whichever tool, he won't switch easily even if quality starts to go down. Regards, Tibor ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:55 AM, John Doty wrote: On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Kovacs Levente wrote: On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:58:37 +0200 Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more 120pf ... 1.5nF Another possibility in that range is plastic film dielectrics rather than ceramic. Oh, and one more issue. AC is much more stressful on a capacitor than DC. It's best to choose a capacitor with an AC voltage rating. If you can't, a common rule of thumb is to choose one with a DC voltage rating 3 times the AC RMS. Classically, this has been an application for mica capacitors, but they're relatively rare these days. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
And one more note. On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Andy Fierman wrote: The capacitance vs. voltage of the X7R dielectric is not very good. NP0/COG are usually specified for precision timing and filter applications. NP0/COG also have a much lower temperature coefficient. NPO/C0G is a temperature coefficient spec. Usually, a low temperature coefficient ceramic will also have low dielectric hysteresis. However, I have encountered exceptions. It's preferable to use capacitors where the manufacturer's data sheet gives a limit on hysteresis. A common spec for a good capacitor is 0.1% hysteresis. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
Kovacs == Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com writes: Kovacs On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:58:37 +0200 Uwe Bonnes Kovacs b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de wrote: What value do you need? Try NP0/COG type, even if substantial more Kovacs 120pf ... 1.5nF In this range you will easily find better types than X7R... -- Uwe Bonnesb...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt - Tel. 06151 162516 Fax. 06151 164321 -- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 23:18 +0800, Steven Michalske wrote: This is what I see as a benefit. If you go to a vendor's website you will find one or two EDA footprint and symbol files. But nothing that was a bell ringer for commonality. It would be nice to have a universal starting point. There is EDIF but I see EDIF as not being so useful, i think they tried to do too many things, and failed to get them all correct. As one file format to rule them all. I rather see svg symbol format, svg footprint format, and svg format. Steve For svg footprints we have two problems: We always have to convert it to old gerber format before sending to manufacturer. (Or to another format which manufacturers support, I think no one currently supports svg.) And if we scale footprints, we should not to forget to scale our (real word) components with the same factor. Of course, would be fine: If our case is too small for our device, just scale the whole thing down. :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Stefan Salewski m...@ssalewski.de wrote: On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 23:18 +0800, Steven Michalske wrote: This is what I see as a benefit. If you go to a vendor's website you will find one or two EDA footprint and symbol files. But nothing that was a bell ringer for commonality. It would be nice to have a universal starting point. There is EDIF but I see EDIF as not being so useful, i think they tried to do too many things, and failed to get them all correct. As one file format to rule them all. I rather see svg symbol format, svg footprint format, and svg format. Steve For svg footprints we have two problems: We always have to convert it to old gerber format before sending to manufacturer. (Or to another format which manufacturers support, I think no one currently supports svg.) And if we scale footprints, we should not to forget to scale our (real word) components with the same factor. Of course, would be fine: If our case is too small for our device, just scale the whole thing down. :-) Same exists for out current footprints, they need to be converted to gerbers via pcb. basically svg - converter - pcb fp format - pcb - gerber --or-- pcb fp - svg --or-- vendor x - converter - svg - converter - pcb fp It would be nice to scale the solder masks and the solder paste layers. for process dependencies. Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:35 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Now we just need to figure out how to enforce it :-) With a stick! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT?: Altium (Protel) Relocates From Sydney Australia to Shanghai China
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Evan Foss evanf...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I second the last part of the. If you have a large library of parts done in a particular tool you will have to redraft all of them. That is not good. On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 12:19 AM, ge...@igor2.repo.hu wrote: On Sat, Apr 09, 2011 at 10:51:00AM -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: snip The developers always wanted to know the fastest way to do something and had no interest in learning the best way to do something. Lately I had the chance to work together with professional software developers from multiple different western countries, and I have to tell you it is not china-specific. I think it's a generic big-company problem that you will see all around the world. Those developers work for money, not for joy, so fastest way is the only way for them, especially combined with the pressure from the management to deliver at deadline _and_ save cost (do it with less developers). In the end the company did ship Cellphones that some how did work. Is that all that maters? I hope not... Is this one company representative of all development in China? I hope not... because of the above, in that big-copmpany environment it's very common to use duct tape all around. If there is a requirement and some well defined method that will be used to tes if the requirement is met at the end, you can be almost sure the developer will implement something that will work only for that one test case and will ignore the general idea behind th erequirement or the test case. This how sleep(1) kind of fixes end up in network code. I don't say it's because those developers are stupid or even inexperienced. It's more like the whole company culture. If you want to make things properly in such an environment, it will take more time and the feedback will not be cool, you made some really robust, reusable code but next time please spend less on the golden knobs and concentrate on the task. Thus the best developers either leave after a while (either to other company or promoted to management) or they will start following the lazy methods knowing that it's not good, but i have no choice. Hopefully this will drive a lot more interest to gEDA and PCB. Honestly, I doubt. At the end once the user got used to whichever tool, he won't switch easily even if quality starts to go down. Regards, Tibor ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user Altium have some great ideas but their execution is dire. They also spread themselves very thin by trying to encapsulate the whole embedded dev (Processor/FPGA) process into one tool, personally I think this was a huge mistake. As they've been loosing money for the last 10 years I cant say the move to China is shocking but I cant see it helping their execution woes. They're also hampered by a massive legacy code base in Delphi which essentially has no eco-system any more. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
I think EDIF pretty much died, no party had a vested interest in making it work and the standard is a bloated mess. SVG represents a real opportunity to piggy back on the much more dominant force of the interwebs. On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Steven Michalske smichal...@gmail.com wrote: This is what I see as a benefit. If you go to a vendor's website you will find one or two EDA footprint and symbol files. But nothing that was a bell ringer for commonality. It would be nice to have a universal starting point. There is EDIF but I see EDIF as not being so useful, i think they tried to do too many things, and failed to get them all correct. As one file format to rule them all. I rather see svg symbol format, svg footprint format, and svg format. Steve On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Andrew Seddon and...@seddon.me wrote: On Sun, 2011-04-10 at 21:55 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. What would be the benefit of SVG? Arbitrary symbol sizes? We can scale our current symbols already, but a schematic with very many different symbol sizes will look strange. Indeed limited scaling may be fine, ie. scaling our 900 units long resistor to 800 or 1000 units length -- but pins should always end on a 100 grid multiple. (no that is not really needed to connect nets, but for ordered look.) Currently SVG export should be a trivial task due to cairo -- similar to PS and PDF export. Filled SVG paths are fine, we have it, still without editing support. Do we need other fancy graphics? I do not think so. Schematics design is not really art work. If we really want full SVG, we may consider a Schematic Mode for Inkscape. But Inkscape is really a large, complex tool. If it is possible to embedd all the elelectronics stuff like attributes, net connection, slots, ... in SVG file, then it may be OK. But the effort -- it is similar to a complete rewrite of gschem. And a rewrite -- again C and guile and GTK? PS: We may consider using inkscapes svg icon set for geda/pcb. Inkspape is GPL, so it should be OK. You may look at files /usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/share/inkscape/icons/tango_icons.svg Very nice icon set, I intend using it for my plain ruby gschem clone. Best regards, Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user So I think it might help to limit the scope of my intent initially to library parts. I'd like to create a truly vendor neutral, widely supported EDA library format, and the only way I see to do that is to piggy back on a format much larger than anything the EDA industry could ever create in isolation. I'm actually thinking more of a direct convert from the gEDA library files so as to maintain design intent, rather than ripping from the graphics layer. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 04:55:15PM +0200, Kovacs Levente wrote: I am selecting capacitors for the low pass harmonic filter bank at the output. My question is what kind of capacitors should I use? I apply not more then 100V of say 30MHz maximum. The classic cap in this application is silver mica. High voltage capacity, super tolerance compared to other types (to 0.25%! but commonly 1% or 2%). The only ones I have are enormous bulky things with dot style marking. A quick search on Mouser turns up only SMT ones... My best bet is to use X7R capacitors with as much DC voltage rating as I can get. I don't know if there's any connection between the DC and AC losses. Not X7R. -- Ben Jackson AD7GD b...@ben.com http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 18:14 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I think EDIF pretty much died, no party had a vested interest in making it work and the standard is a bloated mess. SVG represents a real opportunity to piggy back on the much more dominant force of the interwebs. TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Why can't we paste them right into TeX, LaTeX or whatever? They are all open source, yet this open format is not supported. Whilst SVG is an obvious open vector standard to support - not a lot of things actually work well with it sadly. I was pleasantly surprised to see FreeCAD saves out SVG for its CAD exports - but I would have expected (and half preferred) PDF. I'm getting used to the amazing ease with which tools like Inkscape can open PS and PDF files, then edit them as vector graphics. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 18:14 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: I think EDIF pretty much died, no party had a vested interest in making it work and the standard is a bloated mess. SVG represents a real opportunity to piggy back on the much more dominant force of the interwebs. TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Why can't we paste them right into TeX, LaTeX or whatever? They are all open source, yet this open format is not supported. Whilst SVG is an obvious open vector standard to support - not a lot of things actually work well with it sadly. I was pleasantly surprised to see FreeCAD saves out SVG for its CAD exports - but I would have expected (and half preferred) PDF. I'm getting used to the amazing ease with which tools like Inkscape can open PS and PDF files, then edit them as vector graphics. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
Peter Clifton wrote: TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Wikipedia prefers SVG for anything that is not a photograph. The servers render SVG graphics to PNG as needed before handing it out to the browser. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. Microsoft and Apple do not like What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Actually, SVG import is among the first features of libreoffice beyond openoffice: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/ Why can't we paste them right into TeX, LaTeX or whatever? They are all open source, yet this open format is not supported. IMHO, latex development reached a state of virtual feature freeze before SVG became a viable alternative. Whilst SVG is an obvious open vector standard to support - not a lot of things actually work well with it sadly. The number one open source vector drawing application, inkscape uses SVG as its native file format. This alone would be reason enough to seriously consider SVG as an import/export file format. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. The latest version of every major Desktop/Mobile browser's support is good enough for what we want to do. Support across the web (as in random people arriving at your site) is approaching 50%. Lots of AJAX web apps now use SVG for charting etc. It's a done deal, SVG is the standard for 2D vector graphics for the next x years. @Kai, Chrome actually renders SVG inside an image tag to my delight! Anyway I'm going to stop talking about this and go and write some code now! haha @Peter, not sure if you got my email but definitely up for meeting, let me know when's good for you. Andrew ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 08:55:12PM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Wikipedia prefers SVG for anything that is not a photograph. The servers render SVG graphics to PNG as needed before handing it out to the browser. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. Microsoft and Apple do not like What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Actually, SVG import is among the first features of libreoffice beyond openoffice: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/ Why can't we paste them right into TeX, LaTeX or whatever? They are all open source, yet this open format is not supported. IMHO, latex development reached a state of virtual feature freeze before SVG became a viable alternative. Surely you can convert SVG to EPS, which TeX/LaTeX happily embed. Looks like UniConvertor/sK1 is the usual Free tool to script that conversion. Would it make any sense to leverage that software base, and add Gerber or native gEDA/PCB to its list of import and export filters? http://sk1project.org/modules.php?name=Productsproduct=uniconvertor - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 07:50 -0400, Ethan Swint wrote: On 04/10/2011 04:55 PM, Andrew Seddon wrote: I am exploring the idea of using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard as an EDA format. https://github.com/seddona/svgparts Would be interested in your thoughts, there's a little more explanation on my blog. You might want to check out Fritzing (fritzing.org). It targets non-EEs, but they have all of their graphics in SVG. The have a paper http://www.svgopen.org/2009/papers/33-SVG_in_Fritzing_a_Case_Study/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:22:54PM +0200, Markus Traidl wrote: Actually I would like to use only the net attribute. There I could assign net=3V3 instead of net=3V3:1. You might have missed a recent discussion on the topic: http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Mar-2011/msg00074.html -- Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -- Leonardo da Vinci ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 20:55 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Actually, SVG import is among the first features of libreoffice beyond openoffice: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/ The last time I tried it, support wasn't very good. Things might have changed though, so I guess it is worth me trying again. The number one open source vector drawing application, inkscape uses SVG as its native file format. This alone would be reason enough to seriously consider SVG as an import/export file format. Heck, I know Windows users who love Inkscape. I don't think there is anything available which is remotely comparable which doesn't cost serious money. Inkscape is awesomeness. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 20:12 +0100, Andrew Seddon wrote: TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. The latest version of every major Desktop/Mobile browser's support is good enough for what we want to do. Support across the web (as in random people arriving at your site) is approaching 50%. Lots of AJAX web apps now use SVG for charting etc. It's a done deal, SVG is the standard for 2D vector graphics for the next x years. @Kai, Chrome actually renders SVG inside an image tag to my delight! Anyway I'm going to stop talking about this and go and write some code now! haha @Peter, not sure if you got my email but definitely up for meeting, let me know when's good for you. I got it, but haven't had a chance to think about when might suit. If there is any time you're going to be around in Cambridge anyway, please let me know. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 12:37 -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote: Surely you can convert SVG to EPS, which TeX/LaTeX happily embed. Looks like UniConvertor/sK1 is the usual Free tool to script that conversion. Would it make any sense to leverage that software base, and add Gerber or native gEDA/PCB to its list of import and export filters? http://sk1project.org/modules.php?name=Productsproduct=uniconvertor I use pdfLaTeX with LyX almost exclusively now, so my workflow is Inkscape - PDF - LyX - pdfLaTeX. I've come across sK1 and UniConverter before. I tried to use it to generate EMF files for pasting into OpenOffice (from gschem's clipboard). I can't recall what it failed to convert properly, but it was something ;). Each converter I tried to get into OpenOffice messed something up. Usually it was related to text handling. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:22:54PM +0200, Markus Traidl wrote:
Actually I would like to use only the net attribute. There I could
assign net=3V3 instead of net=3V3:1.
I know that the :1 is that the gnetlist tool knows that the 3V3 is
connected to pin 1.
But in case of a One-Pin-Symbol the gnetlist tool could assume that
the only net should be assigned to the only pin.
This has been asked for several times and I don't see a reason why this should
not be allowed for single pin symbols and only for pin number 1.
The patches are attached - please test and report any potential breakage.
--
Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -- Leonardo da Vinci
From 336dbb62f859a19c5078504828c8298a11d47210 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Krzysztof=20Ko=C5=9Bciuszkiewicz?= k.kosciuszkiew...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:03:12 +0200
Subject: [PATCH 1/3] gnetlist: refactor s_netattrib_net_search
Replace two loops with one by using o_attrib_search_object_attribs_by_name.
Factor out inside of the loop to a separate function,
netname_if_matching_wanted_pin.
---
gnetlist/src/s_netattrib.c | 94
1 files changed, 34 insertions(+), 60 deletions(-)
diff --git a/gnetlist/src/s_netattrib.c b/gnetlist/src/s_netattrib.c
index 957735c..c8052f9 100644
--- a/gnetlist/src/s_netattrib.c
+++ b/gnetlist/src/s_netattrib.c
@@ -213,84 +213,58 @@ s_netattrib_handle (TOPLEVEL * pr_current, OBJECT * o_current,
}
}
+static char* netname_if_matching_wanted_pin (OBJECT *o_current,
+ char *net_attr,
+ const char *wanted_pin)
+{
+ char *char_ptr = strchr (net_attr, ':');
+
+ if (char_ptr != NULL) {
+/* found a colon separating netname and list of pins */
+char *net_name = s_netattrib_extract_netname (net_attr);
+char *start_of_pinlist = char_ptr + 1;
+char *current_pin = strtok (start_of_pinlist, DELIMITERS);
+
+while (current_pin) {
+ if (strcmp (current_pin, wanted_pin) == 0)
+return net_name;
+ current_pin = strtok (NULL, DELIMITERS);
+}
+
+g_free (net_name);
+return NULL;
+ } else {
+fprintf (stderr, Got an invalid net= attrib [net=%s]\n
+ Missing : in net= attrib\n, net_attr);
+return NULL;
+ }
+}
+
char *s_netattrib_net_search (OBJECT * o_current, char *wanted_pin)
{
char *value = NULL;
- char *char_ptr = NULL;
char *net_name = NULL;
- char *current_pin = NULL;
- char *start_of_pinlist = NULL;
- char *return_value = NULL;
int counter;
if (o_current == NULL ||
o_current-complex == NULL)
return NULL;
- /* for now just look inside the component */
- for (counter = 0; ;) {
-value = o_attrib_search_inherited_attribs_by_name (o_current,
- net, counter);
+ for (counter = 0; ; ++counter) {
+value = o_attrib_search_object_attribs_by_name (o_current,
+net, counter);
if (value == NULL)
break;
-counter++;
-
-char_ptr = strchr (value, ':');
-if (char_ptr == NULL) {
- fprintf (stderr, Got an invalid net= attrib [net=%s]\n
- Missing : in net= attrib\n, value);
- g_free (value);
- return NULL;
-}
-
-net_name = s_netattrib_extract_netname (value);
-
-start_of_pinlist = char_ptr + 1;
-current_pin = strtok (start_of_pinlist, DELIMITERS);
-while (current_pin !return_value) {
- if (strcmp (current_pin, wanted_pin) == 0) {
-return_value = net_name;
- }
- current_pin = strtok (NULL, DELIMITERS);
-}
+net_name = netname_if_matching_wanted_pin (o_current, value, wanted_pin);
g_free (value);
- }
-
- /* now look outside the component */
- for (counter = 0; ;) {
-value = o_attrib_search_attached_attribs_by_name (o_current,
- net, counter);
-if (value == NULL)
- break;
-
-counter++;
-char_ptr = strchr (value, ':');
-if (char_ptr == NULL) {
- fprintf (stderr, Got an invalid net= attrib [net=%s]\n
- Missing : in net= attrib\n, value);
- g_free (value);
- return NULL;
-}
-
-net_name = s_netattrib_extract_netname (value);
-
-start_of_pinlist = char_ptr + 1;
-current_pin = strtok (start_of_pinlist, DELIMITERS);
-while (current_pin) {
- if (strcmp (current_pin, wanted_pin) == 0) {
-g_free (return_value);
-return net_name;
- }
- current_pin = strtok (NULL, DELIMITERS);
-}
-
-g_free (value);
+if (net_name != NULL)
+ return net_name;
}
- return return_value;
+ return NULL;
}
char *s_netattrib_return_netname(TOPLEVEL * pr_current, OBJECT * o_current,
--
1.7.4.1
From 68eeaa6103d851371b1264f24eab10a126fa97ad Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From:
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:43:08PM +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 12:37 -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote: Surely you can convert SVG to EPS, which TeX/LaTeX happily embed. http://sk1project.org/modules.php?name=Productsproduct=uniconvertor I use pdfLaTeX with LyX almost exclusively now, so my workflow is Inkscape - PDF - LyX - pdfLaTeX. I didn't mention PDF, but that's relevant for the pdf(la)tex variants that your flow uses, and sK1/UniConvertor has a PDF output filter. Inkscape is nice, but doesn't feel right for embedding in a Makefile. I haven't tried UniConvertor for this purpose. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 02:45:18 +0200 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: DJ Delorie wrote: I'm pondering a minor change in pcb's defaults to give us a more useful default stackup. How's this? LAYERNAME (1, top), LAYERNAME (2, ground), LAYERNAME (3, signal2), LAYERNAME (4, signal3), LAYERNAME (5, power), LAYERNAME (6, bottom), LAYERNAME (7, outline), LAYERNAME (8, spare), This encompasses a few changes: 1. Default to six-layer stackup. You can ignore the signalN or power/ground layers for smaller boards. This covers nearly all PCB users (2/4/6 layers), and the rest can edit the stackup as usual. I like KMK's idea; I'd suggest his proposed switches establish the following: I like to have a comment layer just below the outline layer. In this layer I put internal notes. [...] Make the default layer stack depend on options: --2layer 1, Top 2, Bottom 3, Outline 4, Notes --4layer 1, Top 2, Signal 2 3, Signal 3 4, Bottom 5, Outline 6, Notes (This is similar to the stackup I usually use, except with different names). --6layer As DJ suggested originally, with Notes on layer 8. -- There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves. http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz vanessaezekow...@gmail.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 23:59 +0200, Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz wrote: On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:22:54PM +0200, Markus Traidl wrote: Actually I would like to use only the net attribute. There I could assign net=3V3 instead of net=3V3:1. I know that the :1 is that the gnetlist tool knows that the 3V3 is connected to pin 1. But in case of a One-Pin-Symbol the gnetlist tool could assume that the only net should be assigned to the only pin. This has been asked for several times and I don't see a reason why this should not be allowed for single pin symbols and only for pin number 1. The patches are attached - please test and report any potential breakage. I would advise a note of caution. In general, I don't like it when tools start special casing things like this.. it just feels wrong. This is a FAQ though.. The problem is that one can completely validly override nets for pins which don't exist in the symbol. (E.g. hidden power pins). People are proposing we add a new special case, which says if the user omits the :1, assume a :1 suffix when interpreting this particular attribute. If (and only if) the symbol has one single pin. What about the cases where this is a mistake? The net= attribute was supposed to refer to some implicit power pin - not the device's one symbolic pin, but the user forgot the suffix. Our power symbols already fell like a bit of a kludge as there is no physical pin or component which ends up in the netlist file. (Why should we have to give that power symbol's pin ANY pinnumber attribute? Why is pin 1 special?) Does special casing pin 1 as the Missing ':?' case help teach users how to use the net= attribute properly in the general case? I don't think so. _I_ think it adds to the confusion - as it would mean there are two completely different syntax for the same attribute to be used in different situations. I don't want to see that special case code proliferate in gEDA. We have enough already! A far more satisfying solution in the long run would be to make the symbols which annotate net naming (like the power and ground symbols, off-page labels etc..) have an editable attribute associated with the PIN which gets hooked up to the net which becomes named (or renamed). (netname=) as if it were on the net its-self. I realise this isn't currently possible, as we have no means to set or override attributes on child objects of a complex (e.g. its pins). Aside.. For some tools (Xilinx's schematic editor springs to mind), the net name is a property of the net, and annotation markers you add are just graphical sugar around a visualisation of the net's name attribute. I'm not quite sure about whether power rail symbols transfer a name to nets they are attached to. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 23:25 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: I would advise a note of caution. What some people do not like is the visible :1 in schematics -- can we simple suppress that output for symbols with only one pin and digit 1 after the : That would be a not too dangerous patch, because it concerns only graphical output. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:42 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: I'm pondering a minor change in pcb's defaults to give us a more useful default stackup. How's this? My netlist enters pcb by way of gsch2pcb, which supplies its own default stackup. Can these be kept in sync somehow? Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markra...@midwesttelecine.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
Kovacs Levente wrote: I'm currently designing a power amplifier for the HF (3-30MHz) radio band. I am selecting capacitors for the low pass harmonic filter bank at the output. My question is what kind of capacitors should I use? I apply not more then 100V of say 30MHz maximum. My best bet is to use X7R capacitors with as much DC voltage rating as I can get. I don't know if there's any connection between the DC and AC losses. Thanks, Levente I also would recommend the plastic types. Wima makes nice ones but there are others. C0G/NP0 good too, as already pointed out. gene ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OFF: capacitors for RF power amplifier
quick link to Wima tech info: http://www.wima.de/EN/technicalinformation.htm One really nice thing about plastic film caps is that they fail open. Ceramic tends to fail short - which can sometimes ruin your day :) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
I would advise a note of caution. What some people do not like is the visible :1 in schematics -- can we simple suppress that output for symbols with only one pin and digit 1 after the : That would be a not too dangerous patch, because it concerns only graphical output. +1 Special case seems wrong. This would be a much nicer alternative. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
Mark Rages wrote: My netlist enters pcb by way of gsch2pcb, which supplies its own default stackup. Can these be kept in sync somehow? My current work-around is to call pcb without a filename but with multiple command line options to set the layer stack. After a save with the desired name, gsch2pcb happily adopts this empty layout. The scripting feature of pcb can be used to do this without GUI interaction. Here is a snippet from my create-project-script: /- # Create an empty layout echo \ ChangeName(Layout) \ SaveTo(LayoutAs,$NAME.pcb) \ Quit() \ | pcb --listen \ --fab-author \$AUTHOR\ \ --groups 1,2,3,c:4,5,5,s:7:8 \ --layer-name-1 top \ --layer-name-2 top-polyg. \ --layer-name-3 top-GND \ --layer-name-4 bottom \ --layer-name-5 bott.-poly. \ --layer-name-6 bott.-GND \ --layer-name-7 comment \ --layer-name-8 outline \ --bloat 600 \ --shrink 1000 \ --min-width 600 \ --min-silk 600 \ --min-drill 1500 \ --min-ring 1000 \ --route-styles \ Signal,1000,3600,2000,1000\ :Power,2500,6000,3500,1000\ :Fat,4000,6000,3500,1000\ :Skinny,600,2402,1181,600 \ --default-PCB-width 60 \ --default-PCB-height 60 \ --grid-increment-mm 1.00 \ --grid-increment-mil 20.00 \ --size-increment-mm 0.20 \ --size-increment-mil 10.00 \ --line-increment-mm 0.10 \ --line-increment-mil 8.00 \ --clear-increment-mm 0.50 \ --clear-increment-mil 2.00 \-- ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
On Apr 12, 2011, at 2:55 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak kn...@iqo.uni-hannover.de wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: TBH, I've not seen SVG anywhere on the main-stream internet. Wikipedia prefers SVG for anything that is not a photograph. The servers render SVG graphics to PNG as needed before handing it out to the browser. Linux desktops use SVG a lot for desktop graphics, but it really isn't as prevalent as it should be. Microsoft and Apple do not like Safari has supported SVG for a while now? Why doesn't apple like SVG? What excuse is there for OpenOffice / LibreOffice being so appallingly bad at working with SVG files? Actually, SVG import is among the first features of libreoffice beyond openoffice: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/ Why can't we paste them right into TeX, LaTeX or whatever? They are all open source, yet this open format is not supported. IMHO, latex development reached a state of virtual feature freeze before SVG became a viable alternative. Whilst SVG is an obvious open vector standard to support - not a lot of things actually work well with it sadly. The number one open source vector drawing application, inkscape uses SVG as its native file format. This alone would be reason enough to seriously consider SVG as an import/export file format. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
Snip.
I agree that we should not special case it. I would prefer varibles that
refered to other attributes.
This example: value = 3v3
net = $value:1
where the default scope is the local symbol and no lookups to higher scopes.
A resistor divider:
R1
Value= 1000
R2
Value = ${r1.value} / 2
See how I snuck in math!
This is flexible and is not special casing anything.
Just imagining having a feedback resistor formula in a voltage regulator used
to adding values for the two feedback resistors.
Steve
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Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Steven Michalske smichal...@gmail.com wrote:
Snip.
I agree that we should not special case it. I would prefer varibles that
refered to other attributes.
This example: value = 3v3
net = $value:1
where the default scope is the local symbol and no lookups to higher scopes.
A resistor divider:
R1
Value= 1000
R2
Value = ${r1.value} / 2
See how I snuck in math!
This is flexible and is not special casing anything.
Just imagining having a feedback resistor formula in a voltage regulator used
to adding values for the two feedback resistors.
Steve
I've often though it would be extremely handy to have spreadsheet-like
automatic calculations in gschem.
Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
markra...@midwesttelecine.com
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Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Apr 11, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Peter Clifton wrote: I would advise a note of caution. In general, I don't like it when tools start special casing things like this.. it just feels wrong. I've long thought it a minor design flaw that indexed attributes attach the index to the value rather than the name. So, I would prefer net:1=Vcc, while preserving backward compatibility, of course. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
Steven Michalske wrote: Microsoft and Apple do not like Safari has supported SVG for a while now? Why doesn't apple like SVG? Sorry, I got confused by Apples dislike of flash. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
Mark Rages wrote: I've often though it would be extremely handy to have spreadsheet-like automatic calculations in gschem. You mean like specify the R1/R2 and R1 for the four resistors of a differential opamp circuit? That would be cool! ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Attribute Net (without pin assignment) - for Power and Port Symbols
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Mark Rages wrote: I've often though it would be extremely handy to have spreadsheet-like automatic calculations in gschem. You mean like specify the R1/R2 and R1 for the four resistors of a differential opamp circuit? That would be cool! Yes, or the other way to keep notes up to date: level here is -20dBm, level after pad is -28 dBm, where the dB values would be calculated from the circuit values. Don't Repeat Yourself. Also, I've never been much into simulation, preferring to think a bit and write down equations instead. I feel kind of silly evaluating results on my HP calculator and then typing in the resulting circuit values. Seems like another place to make a cut/paste error (I'm really good at those). Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markra...@midwesttelecine.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
