Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Hi Andrew and all, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Poelstra Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:52 AM To: k...@familieknaak.de; gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 12:08:34AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: This advantage wears off as the user uses the feature more often. Using layers is very basic to PCB. Typical use switches layers very often in a session. Because of this, long term aspects become more important, like efficient use of screen real estate and good visibility of important aspects. Eye icons would demand an additional share of space that cannot be used for the canvas. Greyed out buttons buttons are a very intuitive and obvious way to signal invisibility. Kai (and others), what do you think of this mockup?: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup.png -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ Looks nice ;-) I assume that ground is the active layer ? BTW, we could truncate layernames in buttons: solder mask-- mask rat lines -- rats pins/pads -- leads To save some screen real estate. Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
2011/8/18 Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca: Kai (and others), what do you think of this mockup?: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup.png Looks good. It resembles GtkTreeView and that raises a question - will it still be possible to toggle visibility without changing the active layer (moving the selection)? I also like the stronger visual indication of currently active layer. To me the size of layer color indication for hidden layers is too small - for example its hard to tell difference between power and outline. So I would either increase the size or skip showing color for invisible layers at all. I assume graying out the last 4 layers has some meaning - they're not selectable - but that's not immediately clear by looking at the widget. Cheers, Krzysztof ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Off topic: request for a little help
2011/8/17 Stephen Ecob silicon.on.inspirat...@gmail.com: If you're willing to help then please check out the shop and let me know if there's anything amiss - would you consider buying the product, or is there something in the site that would deter you ? From a perspective of Firefox user browsing with disabled JavaScript: The main page is nearly empty (just menus) and seems to indicate website is not complete? Top menus do not work without JS enabled Links on the bottom of the page work, but target of the link is not visible to the user. I believe you should also consider getting rid of the gray text in the main content - first impression is that this text is unimportant and it's hard to get accustomed to the fact you should actually read it ;-) [after enabling JS] The page load time is far from optimal, from my location image load times (each 100kB-150kB) are between 400 and 2200 ms. I'm also seeing some 404s in the trace: URL=http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/images/bg_list_arrow.png URL=http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/images/footer_item.gif URL=http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/images/banners/slide_banner_02.jpg Cheers, -- Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -- Leonardo da Vinci ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:05:33 +0200 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Andrew Poelstra wrote: I think such a thing would look like: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/selector.png What do people think of this? Invisibility by greyed out buttons is much more easily grasped on a glance than presence or abcense of an eye icon. I'd prefer to not have eye icons and signal visibility by greying out. Fat print of the current layer is a nice way to signal the current layer. Maybe the background of the layer name can be highlighted in some way, too. The current layer is one of the most important bits of information the layer block delivers. Buttons should be all the same size, rather than just the size of the respective layer name. If you go for such a radical change, please make it so, that the larger button selects the current layer. Select of a layer is much more common than change of visibility. ---)kaimartin(--- I'd just like to give my +1 to this idea. Colored boxes, eyes, and plain text as Andrew showed, plus bold text and a subtle highlight to the background behind the selected layer. It would be a good idea to add a border around each button, perhaps only visible on mouseover, to imply to new users that those items can be clicked on. I can't say I like the idea of a greyed-out button though, as this to my mind says disabled and won't respond if clicked on, rather than simply hidden. -- There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves. http://digitalaudioconcepts.com Vanessa Ezekowitz vanessaezekow...@gmail.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Off topic: request for a little help
Which browser and OS are you using ? Chrome (with default settings i.e. JS enabled) on WinXP Pro SP3 32 bit. Haven't tried it at home with FF on LMDE 64 bit. :) BTW; just submitted a couple of your pages to: http://validator.w3.org/ Quite a few errors. H. :( Andy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:48:31 +0200 Bert Timmerman bert.timmer...@xs4all.nl wrote: I think such a thing would look like: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/selector.png What do people think of this? IMHO, the former proposal with visibilty buttons without rectangles is the improvement we are looking for, and we should exploit screen real estate more aggressively and maybe even go as far as truncate layernames to 6..8 chars. If you shorten the layer names here, where would you even want the full names? I think if the user has given layers long names, it is for a good reason. This is about the only place the layer names are even used, except for the exported Gerbers. If the user wants short layer names, he can just name his layers with short names. I do think it could be useful to allow the font size for the layer names to be configurable in the preferences, and allow the user to adjust the width of the left side panel. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Steven Michalske wrote: I really like this one. Bonus points for setting layer color by clicking on the colored rectangle. This should be part of a properties dialog for the respective layer. Properties may include attributes like skip-DRC, DRC rules specific to this layer, layer name, whether this layer is included in gerber export, etc. The properties dialog may open on right click on the layer button (like properties dialogs do in many applications). Single click should be tied to make layer the active layer Double click should be tied to toggle visibility This would provide maximum sensitive button area. Currently, the separate buttons for visibility and active layer make for quite some mis-clicks by me. It is easier to blindly differentiate between click and double click, than between closely locates buttons. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Andrew Poelstra wrote: Kai (and others), what do you think of this mockup?: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup.png Layer names with white background are much easier to read than white on color we have now. If it were me, the colored squares could be a tad larger without increasig the line spacing. The little color triangles are not necessary. But I like this eye candy. There should be two highlight modes. One to show that the respective layer is the currently active layer. And another to provide visual feedback for the mouse. These two should not be exclusive, so you can mouse-highlicgt the current layer. How about underline for the active layer and the systems highlight color for mouse feedback? The latter is what I got to expect from gnome applications. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
DJ Delorie wrote: I think the concept of import/exporting into a spreadsheet program is an approach worthy of consideration as well. http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/sch2csv http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/csv2sch Sure, comma separated lists can be imported in virtually any spread sheet application. But this import is still a bit of a hassle. You have to go through a number of very general import dialogs. Also, these scripts are not (yet?) part of PCB. So they are not easily discovarable. To be really useful, export/import should be a single action from the GUI. Much like import schematics. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Task list for Symbol library creation.
Павел Таранов wrote: We need a library as big as possible (not just basic symbols). ack. In an ideal world, we'd have both: A comprehesive lib of symbols, footprints and simulation models that represent all existing components. And a subset that represents a reasonalble choice to begin with. Given the fact, that building a library is a lot of work, I figured, it is best to start with the subset. I suggest to move all symbols under one root and place to versioning system (just now it could be Kai-Martins CVS, If such an collaborative effort is to be started, I strongly suggest to use a git repository. CVS is a pain to use, in particular, if the project expands. So if somebody want to contribute, he need a login to VCS and commit his contribution. After, somebody from development, team approve it to corresponding branches, and we have this contribution shipped with new release. The hard pard is to find some consensus as to what standard a symbol should conform to. It was already not easy for me to come up with somnething I as a one-man team wholeheartedly agree with :-) 1. Classes. ..snip.. diode.sym symbols could be found as following: diodes/diode.sym diodes/basic/diode.sym basic/diodes/diode.sym This feels like categories. It would eliminate the need to stick to a rigidly defined directory tree. I like it. However, I suspect, it requires to include some kind of relational data base inside PCB. 2. footprints a list of possible footprints available for symbol, thus user can just select it from dropdown list (or enter manual) I already do this in the symbols of the essential libray effort :-) To conform with the current PCB file format, the value is not multi line but comma seperated. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Gschem and footprints
I am happy that doc is still useful. Best Wishes to All here at geda, Steve M. On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 08:44 -0500, kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Colin D Bennett wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:35:46 -0500 (CDT) kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: I am sure this has been done to death but I have to ask I am a beginner and the way I am using gschem and pcb is quite awkward I open my schematic in gschem and open pcb Then when I add a component in gschem I switch to pcb to search for a footprint When I find the proper footprint in pcb I switch back to gschem and manually edit the properties to add the footprint name I MUST be doing something wrong You're not doing anything “wrong”. There are many “right” ways of working with gEDA... it allows you the freedom to choose what works best for you. If switching back and forth between pcb and gschem is tedious, then consider the following suggestions as just a few of the possible optimizations you can make to your process. I almost never use pcb's footprint browser. Yes, the default pcb footprint library has a lot of symbols with obtuse names, so it is difficult to find the one you need by name. However, I only use a few of the default footprint library's footprints--for instance: JUMPER4, RESC1608N, CAPC1608N, ... and most of my footprints are custom ones I have created myself. The footprints in my own library have extremely descriptive names and all I need is a file manager window listing the available footprint files and I can pick the correct footprint by name. For instance, here are some footprint file names from my library: ... You should be able to understand the purpose of each footprint by its nae and perhaps a quick Google on the package code or part number. I also occasionally have used footprints from gedasymbols.org. The gedasymbols.org web site has a great interface for searching the footprint library and previewing the footprints. Another thing you can do to save time is to defer footprint attribute assignment until you have the schematic mostly drawn. Then you can do footprint assignment quickly. You can use either gschem or the “gattrib” tool to quickly assign footprints to all symbol instances in a schematic. I highly suggest you become proficient at creating your own footprints since you will often run into new parts without a pcb footprint, and this allows you to keep a consistent footprint style matching your own preference (you might have your own preference about silk screen outline style, etc.). Creating footprints was tedious for me at first, but now after making several dozen, it has become really simple. I just grab a calculator (or the qalculator application), a pencil and paper, and lay out the footprint per the manufacturer's package drawing and recommended land pattern. I usually create the footprint file (*.fp) with a text editor since it's easy to get the exact layout that way, but on occasion I will use pcb to draw the footprints graphically, or make minor edits to hand-made footprint files. Thanks for all the suggestions I tend to think ignoring system libraries is the way for me I am spending too much time searching through thousands of footprints when I only regularly use a few dozen I will create a personal library and copy/create footprints there as needed I have reviewed Footprint creation for the open-source layout program PCB With this in hand I was easily able to modify a footprint for my needs And yes I agree gedasymbols.org is a great place to shop One off topic question When I open a schematic in gschem and it contains an unknown symbol there is a placeholder with an error message But when I import a schematic into pcb it seems to throw away anything that has an unknown footprint Is this just the way pcb works or am I missing something Thanks Richard ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Bert Timmerman wrote: BTW, we could truncate layernames in buttons: ack. pins/pads -- leads Better: Divide these. Pads are different from pins. Pads reside on only one layer while pins are spanning all layers. During my recent multilayer layout it would have been handy to disable pads but keep pins. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 04:12:34AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Andrew Poelstra wrote: Kai (and others), what do you think of this mockup?: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup.png Layer names with white background are much easier to read than white on color we have now. If it were me, the colored squares could be a tad larger without increasig the line spacing. Good call. I increased them to 14x14 pixels of color and they are much easier to see without increasing the line height. The little color triangles are not necessary. But I like this eye candy. There should be two highlight modes. One to show that the respective layer is the currently active layer. And another to provide visual feedback for the mouse. These two should not be exclusive, so you can mouse-highlicgt the current layer. How about underline for the active layer and the systems highlight color for mouse feedback? The latter is what I got to expect from gnome applications. What if we just keep the active layer highlighted all the time, and use that in place of the radio buttons? -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 08:29:13AM +0200, Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz wrote: 2011/8/18 Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca: Kai (and others), what do you think of this mockup?: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup.png Looks good. It resembles GtkTreeView and that raises a question - will it still be possible to toggle visibility without changing the active layer (moving the selection)? I also like the stronger visual indication of currently active layer. You're very astute ;). It looks like you can't toggle visibility without selecting a new layer. But there are two ways around this: 1. If we use Kai-Martin's idea of double-clicking for visibility, this would not be a surprise to the user. 2. Whenever you hide a layer, the selector would jump to the previously-selected layer. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that from a user's perspective that would make the visibility buttons seem independent of list selection. To me the size of layer color indication for hidden layers is too small - for example its hard to tell difference between power and outline. So I would either increase the size or skip showing color for invisible layers at all. Others have suggested this too. See http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/mockup2.png I assume graying out the last 4 layers has some meaning - they're not selectable - but that's not immediately clear by looking at the widget. That is what I meant. Can you think of how to make this clear, while still allowing the user to toggle visibility? IMHO it would be obvious what the graying-out meant after the first time the user tried selecting them. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Andrew Poelstra [1]as...@sfu.ca wrote: 2. Whenever you hide a layer, the selector would jump to the previously-selected layer. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that from a user's perspective that would make the visibility buttons seem independent of list selection. This would work for hiding layers, but not making them visible. If layer X is active and layer Y is invisible, how do I make layer Y visible without making it the active layer? I like KMK's click/double-click idea if possible. In practice I avoid moving the mouse all the way over to the layer selection while doing a layout anyway, instead using my free hand on the number keys to select the active layer. Jared References 1. mailto:as...@sfu.ca ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 09:25:06AM -0700, Jared Casper wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Andrew Poelstra [1]as...@sfu.ca wrote: 2. Whenever you hide a layer, the selector would jump to the previously-selected layer. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that from a user's perspective that would make the visibility buttons seem independent of list selection. This would work for hiding layers, but not making them visible. If layer X is active and layer Y is invisible, how do I make layer Y visible without making it the active layer? I like KMK's click/double-click idea if possible. Very possible. But you would still be unable to toggle visibility independent of selection using the mouse. How important is this to people? It bothers me, but only because there is no keyboard shortcut in Gtk for toggling visibility. My plan is that you can still toggle visibility by Shift-num, without changing the active layer. The problem with this, of course, is that it will only work with the first 10 layers.. In practice I avoid moving the mouse all the way over to the layer selection while doing a layout anyway, instead using my free hand on the number keys to select the active layer. Jared Ditto. My primary goal here is to improve perhiphial view of what layers are selected and visibile. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Very possible. But you would still be unable to toggle visibility independent of selection using the mouse. How important is this to people? It bothers me, but only because there is no keyboard shortcut in Gtk for toggling visibility. Ctrl-n doesn't toggle visibility? That's what the lesstif HID uses. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 01:13:37PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: Very possible. But you would still be unable to toggle visibility independent of selection using the mouse. How important is this to people? It bothers me, but only because there is no keyboard shortcut in Gtk for toggling visibility. Ctrl-n doesn't toggle visibility? That's what the lesstif HID uses. No. There is code in there to do this, but (to the best of my knowledge) it has never worked. The current accelerator code is very tangled and I wasn't able to fix it last I tried, a few years ago. This is another motivation for pulling the layer-selector into its own widget. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:25:06 -0700 Jared Casper jaredcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: 2. Whenever you hide a layer, the selector would jump to the previously-selected layer. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that from a user's perspective that would make the visibility buttons seem independent of list selection. This would work for hiding layers, but not making them visible. If layer X is active and layer Y is invisible, how do I make layer Y visible without making it the active layer? I like KMK's click/double-click idea if possible. I really dislike the double-click idea. I often need to quickly enable/disable visibility of multiple layers, and the last thing I need is to have to double-click each button. I would much prefer a small region on the button (or next to the button) that controls active/inactive. I like the color swatch and how it shows a small rectangle of the layer color when the layer is hidden; if this swatch were the show/hide toggle, that would be very slick. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Colin D Bennett wrote: I really dislike the double-click idea. I often need to quickly enable/disable visibility of multiple layers, and the last thing I need is to have to double-click each button. I would much prefer a small region on the button (or next to the button) that controls active/inactive. I agree. I like the color swatch and how it shows a small rectangle of the layer color when the layer is hidden; if this swatch were the show/hide toggle, that would be very slick. That is how I would like it to work. But clicking the swatch also selects the layer, which is undesirable behavior. There is no clean way to prevent this with a GtkTreeView widget. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:57:33 -0700 Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Colin D Bennett wrote: I like the color swatch and how it shows a small rectangle of the layer color when the layer is hidden; if this swatch were the show/hide toggle, that would be very slick. That is how I would like it to work. But clicking the swatch also selects the layer, which is undesirable behavior. There is no clean way to prevent this with a GtkTreeView widget. It doesn't sound like a “tree view” is the most appropriate concept for the layer list. There is no apparent visual hierarchy. I am not familiar with GTK, but is there another widget that would be more suitable? E.g., table, list, general scrollable canvas with custom widgets stacked vertically? Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:49:22AM -0700, Colin D Bennett wrote: On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:57:33 -0700 Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Colin D Bennett wrote: I like the color swatch and how it shows a small rectangle of the layer color when the layer is hidden; if this swatch were the show/hide toggle, that would be very slick. That is how I would like it to work. But clicking the swatch also selects the layer, which is undesirable behavior. There is no clean way to prevent this with a GtkTreeView widget. It doesn't sound like a “tree view” is the most appropriate concept for the layer list. There is no apparent visual hierarchy. I am not familiar with GTK, but is there another widget that would be more suitable? E.g., table, list, general scrollable canvas with custom widgets stacked vertically? No, tree view is used for everything. You can hookup a tree model if you want a heirarchy, but for lists you hookup a list model. The viewing logic is the same, so gtk used the confusing name tree view for both in other to avoid code duplication. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Joshua [1]jos...@laserlinc.com wrote: I agree with Delorie. I also was only making slow progress with gattrib. I found the copy and paist functionality limited and strange. I also was confronted with the add column bug. If I remember correctly it corrupted my files when it shifted the properties from one heading to the next. That is why I started exporting to a oocalc. Then I was able to get a lot more work done as oocalc is a refined product. I hadn't found the sch2csv or csv2sch scripts at that time and thus made my own version called gattrib_csv. Not only have I been able to edit the properties en-mass, but I have also been able to import data generated by other users provided as xls files. I now use the one and the same tool to generate the bill of materials for the project as I do to edit the properties. [2]http://public.laserlinc.com/Joshua/gattrib_csv.java compiled by gcj --main=gattrib_csv -o gattrib_csv gattrib_csv.java Yes, the functionality of those (DJ Delorie) scripts (from what little I have been able to find that describes what they do), seem to fit the attribute edit and BoM generation requirements very nicely. I hope I can say the same after I try them out. So, this causes me to ask the question: Why hasen't gattrib been removed from:[3]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf as well as any other instances? While the concept is good, the implementation is worthless, and apparently has been 'around' with the same sort of problems since 2006. As a person who is trying to give the gEDA approach a try, frustrations mount daily in trying to make progress. This brings up another issue that I am curious aboutthe one of component symbol libraries. My expectation (hope, guess?) was with an effort that is open source, users would contribute their symbols to the library, and the symbol library would be huge. I didn't find that reality. I assumed this because users would 'giveback' to the community. Clearly some have done this. I plan on doing this (if I continue down this path). So why hasen't the component mfgs been inclined to develop and contribute symbols? Why hasen't the users contributed more? Perhaps there are not too many users. Perhaps it is a case of: The tools have been built but the users are not comming.Anyway, just curious -John References 1. mailto:jos...@laserlinc.com 2. http://public.laserlinc.com/Joshua/gattrib_csv.java 3. http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Off topic: request for a little help
Stephen Ecob wrote: Can they be shrunk and still be clear enough not to look silly? That would speed up page loading. Thanks, I think I'll do that. The only time I got noticable download delays was with the details page for each product. IMHO, it would be best to use the same image as in the overview and have an enlarge-button link to a big version. Most browsers will notice the reuse of the same small image and take it from cache -- no extra download needed. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Colin D Bennett wrote: I really dislike the double-click idea. I often need to quickly enable/disable visibility of multiple layers, Nothing beats accel-keys for fast actions. In this case [ctrl-N] or [shift-N] would be the natural choice. and the last thing I need is to have to double-click each button. A double click is a single action to me. If you don't like double clicks, how about [control-click]? I would much prefer a small region on the button (or next to the button) that controls active/inactive. Seems, our preference differs in this aspect. I'd rather not target small areas for quick, fast actions. This is what we have now with the toggle buttons. And I tend to mis-click every once in a while. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
Andrew Poelstra wrote: I like KMK's click/double-click idea if possible. Very possible. But you would still be unable to toggle visibility independent of selection using the mouse. Why is this so? Are double clicked items automatically selected in GTK widgets? How important is this to people? Quite important. When working with four layer layouts I often need to toggle visibility of layers while I keep working one of the inner layers. It bothers me, but only because there is no keyboard shortcut in Gtk for toggling visibility. I'd prefer to have both: Mouse click action and keyboard accels. My plan is that you can still toggle visibility by Shift-num, without changing the active layer. The problem with this, of course, is that it will only work with the first 10 layers.. [ctrl-num] to select 11 to 20, [shift-ctrl-num] to toggle visibility. [alt-num] to select 21 to 30, [shift-ctrl-num] to toggle visibility. [alt-ctrl-num] to select 31 to 40, [shift-alt-ctrl-num] for visibility ;-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:34:04PM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Andrew Poelstra wrote: I like KMK's click/double-click idea if possible. Very possible. But you would still be unable to toggle visibility independent of selection using the mouse. Why is this so? Are double clicked items automatically selected in GTK widgets? They are in a GtkTreeView. It's a nasty, inflexible widget. How important is this to people? Quite important. When working with four layer layouts I often need to toggle visibility of layers while I keep working one of the inner layers. It bothers me, but only because there is no keyboard shortcut in Gtk for toggling visibility. I'd prefer to have both: Mouse click action and keyboard accels. I've gotten the swatch-clicking to work by catching mouse clicks over the visibility toggle column and preventing those clicks from propagating to the GtkTreeView. You say you don't want to reach for a tiny area with the mouse. I have increased the swatch size. Take a look at: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/mockup3.png The swatches are far larger than the radio buttons, have more visibly clickable area (as they are square), and contrast with their surroundings more. My plan is that you can still toggle visibility by Shift-num, without changing the active layer. The problem with this, of course, is that it will only work with the first 10 layers.. [ctrl-num] to select 11 to 20, [shift-ctrl-num] to toggle visibility. [alt-num] to select 21 to 30, [shift-ctrl-num] to toggle visibility. [alt-ctrl-num] to select 31 to 40, [shift-alt-ctrl-num] for visibility ;-) Heey, I like that. For compatibility with lesstif we should switch Shift and Ctrl, but otherwise I'm all for this. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
