Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
On Sep 2, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Colin D Bennett wrote: > On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:18:20 -0500 > John Griessen wrote: > >> Does the category low end bother you? > > Well, I think low-end is not very specific in reality. Does gEDA > really belong in the category of EAGLE, or is it much more powerful? > > Maybe the “low-end” attitude toward gEDA is based on the fact that pcb > doesn't support important features for large and complex boards such as > > - trace length matching, Important in high speed. I recall a serpentine plugin for pcb. +1 to bundling plugins with pcb sources.. > - constraints/routing styles defined at the net level, Important for high speed and power applications > - pushing/pulling PCB traces and better support for moving parts with > traces routed, Nifty, aids layout but often you can't shove those length matched sets anyhow. > - ability to select a component on the PCB by clicking it in the > schematic view, Novice feature Layout engineers have paper schematics with notes taken on them when they met with the EEs who drew the schematics. > - back-annotation to schematic from the PCB editor. Again, back annotation comes from yelling at the EE and telling them that they can't break physics no mater how hard they try! On the other hand for FPGAs and other high pin count devices I suspect that this would be more welcome. Though I think that a tool that mapped the ports and I/Os an stored them in a table. With an option to render to graphical symbols would be better. Nets in schematic assigned to layout placement. Then layout is assisted by assignment tool, kinda like a reverse fanout tool. Then The table in the design is updated. Then graphics and pinmap file get generated. This would cut the iterative process from the desiring of large FPGA parts. > > Just a few things that sound important to me, a novice PCB designer. What is really missing is the support contracts from the high end tools. We need the equivalent of what RedHat is for Linux to be considered a high end tool. > > Regards, > Colin > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting question
On 09/01/2011 07:50 PM, Dan Roganti wrote: I feel really, really stupid. This is exactly what happened. There was another 7404-1.sym file in my symbol path, an old one that I had created years ago, and it was shadowing the "real" one, overriding it when the sheet was loaded. I swear I'm usually not this much of an idiot. ;) Thank you for your assistance, and I apologize for the distraction. oops, didn't see this reply yet - sorry I guess the error propagated to my machine when using his database. I have to quit sitting so close to him :) Yep, sorry about that. That was in there from way back. and that wouldn't be the only reason ;) Hey, that was only one little Mexican food episode! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 17:35 -0700, Russell Dill wrote: > > I'll just sit back and wish for auto-route style by net property. > Yes, I still think that old wish would be an improvement. One more step from a "painting" program to real EDA. Having properties/attributes like width, clearance, impedance, max-length for traces, pins and pads may be an advantage for manual and auto-routing. I know from DJ that we already have PCB support of attributes for imported netlist -- but it may be very difficult to propagate it to each trace segment. And of course, some people prefer plain painting, if I remember the toporouter discussion correctly. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:18:20 -0500 John Griessen wrote: > Does the category low end bother you? Well, I think low-end is not very specific in reality. Does gEDA really belong in the category of EAGLE, or is it much more powerful? Maybe the “low-end” attitude toward gEDA is based on the fact that pcb doesn't support important features for large and complex boards such as - trace length matching, - constraints/routing styles defined at the net level, - pushing/pulling PCB traces and better support for moving parts with traces routed, - ability to select a component on the PCB by clicking it in the schematic view, - back-annotation to schematic from the PCB editor. Just a few things that sound important to me, a novice PCB designer. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
John Griessen wrote: > Does the category low end bother you? > It is at the low end of the price tag scale :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:46:02 -0700 Andrew Poelstra wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 03:02:51AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > Andrew Poelstra wrote: > > > > > Can we use toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for the > > > route style selector? It would look like so: > > > > > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/toggle.png > > > > > > This gives more clickable area and a cleaner look, I think. > > > > The look is still inconsistent. The buttons are centered. By > > contrast, the tool box and the layer lines are flush-left. > > > > > > I'd prefer a more radical change: > > > > 1) Make the route styles as user configurable as the layers. That > > is, allow to add odr delete styles, change the order they appear > > in the GUI, > > > > Nope, core changes required. I can allow the addition of arbitrarily > many temporary layers (and I plan to), but that's pretty much the > extent of what I can do without making serious changes. > > > 2) Attach accel-keys to route styles. I know, we are running out > > of accels. But this is an important omission in the current GUI. > > Changing route styles is a very frequent action while manual > > routing. How about [ctrl-F1], ... [ctrl-F12]? > > > > Sure. Unless someone has a better idea, I'll go with these. > > > 3) Add a little preview to the left of the route style name, that > > indicates the width of the tracks. Actual width in the preview may > > be calculated relative to the other route styles. > > > > I considered this, but route styles control more than just line > size, and I don't think "relative to the other route styles" would > be very useful. > > > 4) Get rid of the "Route Style" button. Its meaning depends on > > the currently selected route style. This is very non-standard and > > newbie unfriendly. > > Here is my proposal: add an 's' to "Route Style" and have it load > this dialog: > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/styles-dialog.png How about a dialog that presents all the route styles in a table, so they can be easily compared? It is difficult to compare two styles (say, to make sure the via size is the same for two styles, or something) when you can't see both at once. > > Proposal: Move its function to right-mouse click on every style > > button. Ideally, this would be complimented by a config page in > > prefernces in case a user can't do right-clicks (e.g. mac users). > > This would also be the place to change order config accel keys or > > add more route styles. Side effect: More space in the right > > sidebar :-) +1 I would like right-click to bring up properties for any route style *without* having to make it the current route style (sometimes I want to quickly check the settings for a particular style. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
> I remember the old Quake maps had to be "sealed", so any loose seam
> would cause problems. Because the map editor doesn't know what you
> meant to be outside/inside, etc, the map editor had a feature to deal
> with this, it would create a line that would start in one area, and
> head to another. All you had to do was follow the line.
>
> A similar solution in PCB would be neat. if VCC and GND are shorted,
> pick a random GND pin and a random VCC pin. Find a path between them
> and show it as a orange dotted line. This could later be extended to
> find either the shortest orange dotted line, or the point on the board
> where several such lines meet.
Yes, plenty of possible algorithms - the one that I though of was:
For each element in the set of elements in the two shorted nets
{
Temporarily disable this element (ie consider it an open circuit)
If (the two nets are still shorted)
{
re-enable this element;
continue;
}
re-enable this element;
Visually highlight this element;
Alert user("This is the offending element");
}
The algorithm fails if the short consists of parallel shorting
elements - but the very common case is just a single fault, very often
that via with extra thermals on a wrong layer.
If only I had time for more than pseudo code at the moment!
Stephen Ecob
Silicon On Inspiration
Sydney Australia
www.sioi.com.au
$39 Spartan 6 board with 32MB DDR DRAM ?
http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/product_info.php/products_id/47
___
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Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 01:10:10PM -0700, Andrew Poelstra wrote: > > I see it sometimes, but with other people's messages as often as mine. > For example, Peter C. recently replied to a message from Stephan. I > received Peter's reply but not Stephan's message. I meant to say 'Stefan Salewski' here. I apologize for the misspelling. (Note: I did recieve -this- message of my own.) -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net "Do whatever you want. Do what you think is important. Everybody is an individual." --Ron Paul ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 03:45:57PM -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: > > Just for the record, I'm not sure what our moderation policy is. Are any > > of your posts being rejected by moderation? (If so - just what kind of > > emails are you sending? ;)). > > One of the things that changed when the list went moderated, is that I > no longer see my own posts, so I really never know if the reached the > list. Before moderation I'd see my own posts. I assume this applies > to everyone, or at least everyone using gmail maybe? > I see it sometimes, but with other people's messages as often as mine. For example, Peter C. recently replied to a message from Stephan. I received Peter's reply but not Stephan's message. My school's mailserver has its own host of problems I think are contributing to this. Often I'll just open the archive page and hit refresh periodically, since that seems more reliable. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net "Do whatever you want. Do what you think is important. Everybody is an individual." --Ron Paul ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
I rarely see my own posts, I turned on post acks. On Sep 2, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Bob Paddock wrote: >> Just for the record, I'm not sure what our moderation policy is. Are any >> of your posts being rejected by moderation? (If so - just what kind of >> emails are you sending? ;)). > > One of the things that changed when the list went moderated, is that I > no longer see my own posts, so I really never know if the reached the > list. Before moderation I'd see my own posts. I assume this applies > to everyone, or at least everyone using gmail maybe? > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
> Just for the record, I'm not sure what our moderation policy is. Are any > of your posts being rejected by moderation? (If so - just what kind of > emails are you sending? ;)). One of the things that changed when the list went moderated, is that I no longer see my own posts, so I really never know if the reached the list. Before moderation I'd see my own posts. I assume this applies to everyone, or at least everyone using gmail maybe? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Peter Clifton wrote: > On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 20:26 -0700, Russell Dill wrote: >> >> Throwing out a crazy idea.. in word-processors etc.., "styles" are found >> >> in a drop-down combo-box. I know that doesn't fit so well with where we >> >> have space for the route-style selector, but just a crazy though. >> >> >> > >> > One day, when we support an unlimited number of route styles. ;) >> > >> >> Yes, 4 hardly seems like enough. Especially since many designs require >> a different trace width based on the layer for the same signal. > > For impedance reasons? > > I was also aware that you could also have different requirements for > current carrying capacity - if different layers used different copper > weights. > > There are also different DRC rules on certain objects on inner layers > for some fabs IIRC. > > Perhaps this ought the be encompassed in a "smart" route-style which has > different settings for different layers. That would make assigning one > route-style to one net much more practical. You (and the auto-router) > wouldn't have to switch styles when switching layers etc.. Yes, for impedance reasons. Given the current state, I don't think its smart to do an all in one go solution for everybody, but instead do incremental improvements. I think the first step might be something like what kmk is suggesting, allowing a more dynamic set of layers, and then extending that to allow a route style to be broken up per layer. And at some later stage tying route styles to net attributes or sets of nets. While impedance matching is becoming more important, lack of per layer DRC is probably something that is probably more likely to bite people. But for me at least, its going to be a real pain to keep track of per layer trace widths and minimum spacing for different net types. Suppose I'll make a script that does a check to see if the trace widths in a given PCB match some set of rules. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 20:26 -0700, Russell Dill wrote: > >> Throwing out a crazy idea.. in word-processors etc.., "styles" are found > >> in a drop-down combo-box. I know that doesn't fit so well with where we > >> have space for the route-style selector, but just a crazy though. > >> > > > > One day, when we support an unlimited number of route styles. ;) > > > > Yes, 4 hardly seems like enough. Especially since many designs require > a different trace width based on the layer for the same signal. For impedance reasons? I was also aware that you could also have different requirements for current carrying capacity - if different layers used different copper weights. There are also different DRC rules on certain objects on inner layers for some fabs IIRC. Perhaps this ought the be encompassed in a "smart" route-style which has different settings for different layers. That would make assigning one route-style to one net much more practical. You (and the auto-router) wouldn't have to switch styles when switching layers etc.. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 18:08 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 11:36 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > > > Does the category low end bother you? > > > > Nope. Dave comes from Altium so everything is relative to that ;-) > > > > Besides, I always thought geda/pcb's competition was Eagle, > > And Target3001 and DesignSpark now. And of course KiCAD. > gEDA/PCB is really not very popular here in Germany. I suppose there is no accounting for taste. I hear DesignSpark is rubbish (comment from someone I know who tried it once). > The term "suite" > and "collection of tools" makes people think it must be difficult to > use, that is one point. But now we have a moderated mailing list, that > may attract some people from old eastern Germany (GDR), some of these > really miss the berlin wall. I'm not sure who ought to be more offended at that - the ex-East-Germans you mention, or the list administrators. Comparing a moderated mailing list to the kind of oppression and freedom limitations imposed during that era is a bit of an exaggeration. A bit like calling someone who is overly strict or prescriptive a Nazi. (Ok - I found the comment funny - just don't tell anyone ;)). > And to say it clear: There may be a (good?) reason for moderation, but > when post to this list needs many hours or days to become visible: > Really bad for beginners. Or is this only for Kai-Martin and me. Just for the record, I'm not sure what our moderation policy is. Are any of your posts being rejected by moderation? (If so - just what kind of emails are you sending? ;)). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
> > Since we have such a good, algorithmic method for finding these shorts, > perhaps we can write some code to do it for our puny human minds? ;) > > Usually, when I have power and ground shorted, it's because of a via placed > some where that was accidentally assigned thermals to the wrong layer. > I remember the old Quake maps had to be "sealed", so any loose seam would cause problems. Because the map editor doesn't know what you meant to be outside/inside, etc, the map editor had a feature to deal with this, it would create a line that would start in one area, and head to another. All you had to do was follow the line. A similar solution in PCB would be neat. if VCC and GND are shorted, pick a random GND pin and a random VCC pin. Find a path between them and show it as a orange dotted line. This could later be extended to find either the shortest orange dotted line, or the point on the board where several such lines meet. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 03:02:51AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Andrew Poelstra wrote: > > > Can we use toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for the > > route style selector? It would look like so: > > > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/toggle.png > > > > This gives more clickable area and a cleaner look, I think. > > The look is still inconsistent. The buttons are centered. By > contrast, the tool box and the layer lines are flush-left. > > > I'd prefer a more radical change: > > 1) Make the route styles as user configurable as the layers. That > is, allow to add odr delete styles, change the order they appear > in the GUI, > Nope, core changes required. I can allow the addition of arbitrarily many temporary layers (and I plan to), but that's pretty much the extent of what I can do without making serious changes. > 2) Attach accel-keys to route styles. I know, we are running out > of accels. But this is an important omission in the current GUI. > Changing route styles is a very frequent action while manual > routing. How about [ctrl-F1], ... [ctrl-F12]? > Sure. Unless someone has a better idea, I'll go with these. > 3) Add a little preview to the left of the route style name, that > indicates the width of the tracks. Actual width in the preview may > be calculated relative to the other route styles. > I considered this, but route styles control more than just line size, and I don't think "relative to the other route styles" would be very useful. > 4) Get rid of the "Route Style" button. Its meaning depends on > the currently selected route style. This is very non-standard and > newbie unfriendly. Here is my proposal: add an 's' to "Route Style" and have it load this dialog: http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/styles-dialog.png > Proposal: Move its function to right-mouse click on every style button. > Ideally, this would be complimented by a config page in prefernces in > case a user can't do right-clicks (e.g. mac users). This would also be > the place to change order config accel keys or add more route styles. > Side effect: More space in the right sidebar :-) > > To fully implement these proposals, changes in the internals of pcb > are required. But at least, a GUI-only redesign should not conflict > such ideas. > -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net "Do whatever you want. Do what you think is important. Everybody is an individual." --Ron Paul ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
> Does the category low end bother you? Nope. Dave comes from Altium so everything is relative to that ;-) Besides, I always thought geda/pcb's competition was Eagle, not the real high-end EDA tools. There are a *lot* of features we don't have, that are hard to come by, that the high end tools have. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
Does the category low end bother you? Original Message Subject: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem? Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:12:20 +1000 From: Dave Jones CC: upda...@lists.openhardwaresummit.org I'm planning a review of the low end PCB tools (Eagle, gEDA, KiCAD) from a new user perspective (I've used Altium for 20+ years, and worked there for 4 years, so have barely touched Eagle, and not the others at all). I expect those to be very long videos, and still only briefly cover the basics. I can't imagine Make having room for a decent magazine review? My PCB Design Tutorial in Silicon Chip was spread over 3 parts. http://www.alternatezone.com/electronics/pcbdesign.htm I think any article in Make would likely just be a short OpEd like piece? David L. Jones www.eevblog.com The Electronics Engineering Video Blo ___ updates mailing list upda...@lists.openhardwaresummit.org http://lists.openhardwaresummit.org/listinfo.cgi/updates-openhardwaresummit.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: 50 mil pitch through hole perf/proto board
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Stephen Ecob wrote: > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Tom Pope wrote: >> Why not make one? Seeedstudio's PCB manufacturing service will give >> you (10x)100cm^2 boards for ~$25. >> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185 > > I've done this before, but different PCB fab and different hole pitch > - mine had a standard 100 mil square grid of holes and a second 100 > mil square grid of holes in quadrature locations to the first. The > PCB fabs hate this sort of board, it plays havoc with their drilling > machines - excessive drilling time and bit consumption. The first fab > I approached quoted a 60% overhead because of the high hole density. > > I still have one or two fabbed boards and the (hastily cobbled > together) C code for generating .PCB files for these if anyone's > interested. > > An example PCB file is attached - it's zipped because ~3000 vias makes > for a large .pcb file :) > Thanks for the suggestions folks... after I sent my request, I went back to Digikey (for one final check) and this time I managed to find the "Circuit Pattern" search key with an option for 0.05" grid. For some reason I didn't see that yesterday. Anyway, it looks like I've found what I needed. Shifting gears slightly... I just discovered Seeedstudio a few weeks ago when I ordered some stock prototype boards from them... The boards are being shipped from Hong Kong and I'm still waiting for them to arrive. Now that I've looked at their web site more closely, I see that the "Contact us" page lists phone numbers and addresses in China. I guess I could have looked at that before. I guess I could have asked folks about their experiences with Seeedstudio before. I guess I could ask now... What other experiences have folks had with Seeedstudio? --wpd --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
> wouldn't it be nice to be able to tell a polygon that it belongs to > a net and the have the thermals that disagree highlighted? Yes, it would :-) I thought of an idea for a plugin... starting with each pin/pad, trace connections back to the next intersection (rather than blindly finding the *whole* connectivity). Then, check each intersection - if nets disagree, that's the short. If they agree, continue tracing back to the next intersection, etc. If you trace back to a polygon, keep a count of how many of each net touches each polygon (i.e. don't trace *through* a polygon). If they agree, that polygon is OK. If not, the most popular one is OK and the rest are shorts. I think the code in djopt.c has most of what you need, it just doesn't know about polygons yet. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
FWIW, I never use the style "buttons" in lesstif (they're a tear-off menu). I always open the style editor and use that instead - it has buttons to select the style, but *also* tells me what the style is, and lets me tweak it as I go. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Thomas Oldbury wrote: > When I delete the shorted objects (a microSD card connector, and a 3 > pin header) the short location moves!! > I can't see a short anywhere on this board. I've searched the PCB file > for shorted thermals, no luck. > Is there a patch which improves the functionality and actually locates > the position of this short, or do I have to rip up large areas of my > board until I get to it? The orange ring on the left pad of I2 looks suspicious - what happens if you delete I2 ? Stephen Ecob Silicon On Inspiration Sydney Australia www.sioi.com.au $39 Spartan 6 board with 32MB DDR DRAM ? http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/product_info.php/products_id/47 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: 50 mil pitch through hole perf/proto board
Why not make one? Seeedstudio's PCB manufacturing service will give you (10x)100cm^2 boards for ~$25. http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Patrick Doyle wrote: > Hi folks! > Do any of you know of a through-hole perfboard or protoboard that has > a 50 mil pitch? > > I have a 128 pin through-hole connector arranged as 2 rows of 64 pins, > spaced on a 0.05" pitch. (The two rows are space 0.25" apart.) I > could solder wires onto each of these pins and attach them to a > plain-old-vanilla protoboard, or I could find a protoboard and stuff > this connector onto it. > > Unfortunately, I'm having some difficulty finding such a protoboard. > So I figured I'd ask. 0.1" pitch is abundantly easy to find. 0.05" > pitch doesn't seem so. > > Thanks for any pointers... > > --wpd > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: 50 mil pitch through hole perf/proto board
Hi folks! Do any of you know of a through-hole perfboard or protoboard that has a 50 mil pitch? I have a 128 pin through-hole connector arranged as 2 rows of 64 pins, spaced on a 0.05" pitch. (The two rows are space 0.25" apart.) I could solder wires onto each of these pins and attach them to a plain-old-vanilla protoboard, or I could find a protoboard and stuff this connector onto it. Unfortunately, I'm having some difficulty finding such a protoboard. So I figured I'd ask. 0.1" pitch is abundantly easy to find. 0.05" pitch doesn't seem so. Thanks for any pointers... --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
I don't know if this will help or not, but here goes... I've never used net highlighting in PCB before, but I had a similar problem in an ASIC designed using Cadence's Virtuoso layout editor. I ultimately tracked it down using the "highlight trace" feature of the program, which included the nifty feature (since highlighting millions of traces can take some time) of allowing me to escape out of it partially through the operation, leaving the nets it had traced out highlighted. With that feature I was able to narrow the short down to a particular corner of the design, and then through brute force (highlight net... ESCAPE!, see if both vdd & gnd were shorted, repeat) narrow things down to the point that I could trace out the highlighted nets manually and see the short. --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
Unfortunately, the highlighting just tells you WHICH nets are shorted, not where they are shorted. I tried deleting the objects in question which highlight orange. Now it just highlights some more objects orange indicating 3.3V and ground are shorted somewhere. Is there any way to get PCB to point to the exact point between where the short occurs? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
wouldn't it be nice to be able to tell a polygon that it belongs to a net and the have the thermals that disagree highlighted? On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 15:13 +1000, Stephen Ecob wrote: > > Usually, when I have power and ground shorted, it's because of a via placed > > some where that was accidentally assigned thermals to the wrong layer. > > > > -Ethan > > +1 > > Often when this happens I find it easiest to fix in a text editor, > it's easier to spot a via connected to too many layers there than in > the GUI. > > Stephen Ecob > Silicon On Inspiration > Sydney Australia > www.sioi.com.au > $39 Spartan 6 board with 32MB DDR DRAM ? > http://www.sioi.com.au/shop/product_info.php/products_id/47 > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting question
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Dave McGuire <[1]mcgu...@neurotica.com> wrote: On 08/26/2011 01:47 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: I still get the correct result. A stab in the dark: Maybe you have a copy of 7404-1.sym somewhere on your hardware that actually is a 7404-3.sym in disguise. This disguised symbol file may be found first, on start-up of gschem. You can test this hypothesis by not setting the slotting at all and just save to text.sch . In addition you can use the "locate" command to locate all symbol files called "7404-1.sym" on your hard disk. I feel really, really stupid. This is exactly what happened. There was another 7404-1.sym file in my symbol path, an old one that I had created years ago, and it was shadowing the "real" one, overriding it when the sheet was loaded. I swear I'm usually not this much of an idiot. ;) Thank you for your assistance, and I apologize for the distraction. oops, didn't see this reply yet - sorry I guess the error propagated to my machine when using his database. I have to quit sitting so close to him :) =Dan and that wouldn't be the only reason ;) References 1. mailto:mcgu...@neurotica.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting question
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:20 PM, John Doty <[1]j...@noqsi.com> wrote: On Aug 23, 2011, at 8:45 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > In any event, I've tried all combinations, and I still get the same behavior. This is with v1.6.2.20110115. This is repeatable here, using symbol 7404-1 from the default installed library. > > This seems like a pretty serious issue; can anyone shed a little light on it? Absolutely mysterious. I've never seen behavior like this and I cannot reproduce it using your procedure. I sit right next to Dave and it happens on my machine too I'm using the same version here. So far, I noticed this happen only with the 7404-1 part It doesn't happen with other parts such as 7400-1, 7432-1, or 7410-1. =Dan References 1. mailto:j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
Peter Clifton wrote: > Throwing out a crazy idea.. in word-processors etc.., "styles" are > found in a drop-down combo-box. I know that doesn't fit so well with > where we have space for the route-style selector, but just a crazy > though. In my humble opinon, the space would be used better by an expanded tool box. Packing tools in three columns is just awful from a usability point of view. Better put them in a Single, linear list. Also, there will certainly be more fancy tools to come in the future: E.g. shove, multi-track to draw busses in one sweep, blind via, multi copy (produce a grid of objects with one action), copy-rotate, ... Plus, there is the potentially space hungry layer list. With tis in mind, the drop-down list for route styles looks like a good idea. The drop-down list can easily adjust for user configured additional styles, too. Bonus points to allow the list be ripped off and placed on the other monitor. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Can we use toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for the > route style selector? It would look like so: > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/toggle.png > > This gives more clickable area and a cleaner look, I think. The look is still inconsistent. The buttons are centered. By contrast, the tool box and the layer lines are flush-left. I'd prefer a more radical change: 1) Make the route styles as user configurable as the layers. That is, allow to add odr delete styles, change the order they appear in the GUI, 2) Attach accel-keys to route styles. I know, we are running out of accels. But this is an important omission in the current GUI. Changing route styles is a very frequent action while manual routing. How about [ctrl-F1], ... [ctrl-F12]? 3) Add a little preview to the left of the route style name, that indicates the width of the tracks. Actual width in the preview may be calculated relative to the other route styles. 4) Get rid of the "Route Style" button. Its meaning depends on the currently selected route style. This is very non-standard and newbie unfriendly. Proposal: Move its function to right-mouse click on every style button. Ideally, this would be complimented by a config page in prefernces in case a user can't do right-clicks (e.g. mac users). This would also be the place to change order config accel keys or add more route styles. Side effect: More space in the right sidebar :-) To fully implement these proposals, changes in the internals of pcb are required. But at least, a GUI-only redesign should not conflict such ideas. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 10:55:10 -0700 Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Can we use toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for the > route style selector? It would look like so: > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/toggle.png > > This gives more clickable area and a cleaner look, I think. While we're thinking about the route style buttons, I this it would be ideal to: - Use toggle buttons as you suggest, - Remove the “Route Style” button, and - Put either a small “edit” icon next to each route style name, or maybe more consistent with the new layer selector, allow right-click on name to edit (I often want to quickly look at the settings for a different route style without having to change to it, click Route Style, then change back to the previous route style.) Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem vs. PCB diode pin numbering
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 08:37:59PM -0600, John Doty wrote: > > On Aug 27, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Dan McMahill wrote: > > > This problem goes beyond diodes and transistors. For example, the old > > 10H series of ECL parts came both in DIP packages as well as PLCC > > packages. Some of the parts though, would be in a 16 pin DIP or a 20 > > pin PLCC and so the pin numbers didn't agree between the two packages. > > Yep. I recently got bit by this with the LT1078 opamp (different pinouts in > DIP8 and SO8). I've used the LT1013 (since 1993 or so) which has the same "feature". Linear Technology originally (early 90s) claimed that this was because they had to rotate the die when fitting it into the SO8 package. I distincly remember having to create a special symbol under OrCAD to have the right pinout for this device. Gabriel ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
