Re: gEDA-user: verilog - gschem
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:31:44 -0700 From: [1]fr...@frankthomson.net Subject: gEDA-user: verilog - gschem To: [2]geda-user@moria.seul.org Message-ID: [3]20110707153144.97bc9b90117a8175dad249389209a753.5acdf95b97.wbe@e mail04.secureserver.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I've looked at the mailing list archives and seen people ask but haven't seen if anyone has code to take a verilog netlist and create a gschem file from it. I don't care about what the schematic looks like, can be ugly. I just need to get it into gschem format to run through gnetlist to a different netlist format. Why? Well, I'm getting files from different tools (gschem along with tools from other sites) and the common format I can generate is verilog which works out well because I'm using icarus verilog for simulation. The next step in the process requires running the design through gnetlist but since gnetlist only reads gschem files as input I need to get the verilog files to gschem to feed gnetlist. -Frank -- The only difference between that and and PCB layout program is that you don't care about trace width and you can cross lines without connecting them. What you need is a symbol generator ( trivial script) , and autoplacer ( trivial unless you want your result to be understandable and easily routed) and a autorouter ( PHD project and maybe a career). You should be able to do a script that generates a graphical rats nest that had all the correct connections. That should work. John Eaton References 1. mailto:fr...@frankthomson.net 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. mailto:20110707153144.97bc9b90117a8175dad249389209a753.5acdf95b97@email04.secureserver.net ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Solving the light/heavy symbol problem
Lot of good discussion here. Keep it up. I work in the asic/fpga arena and I am building a tool flow based on the ip-xact standard (IEEE-1685). It has a lot in it that solves many of the problems in this discussion and I would suggest that gEDA might want to borrow a few tips from that standard. 1) It is targeted for exchanging data between tools. All the files use xml so that parsers are available for all languages. 2) All objects have a unique identifier. Ip-xact uses a VLNV for Vendor,library,component and version. There are no name collision issues as long as the rules are followed. 3) Multiple views are supported. I can created a view with one deliverable for simulation and a different view and deliverable for synthesis. I can generate a light symbol view as well as a heavy one. 4) No problems with data duplication. By using correct by construction techniques you never duplicate data. You keep the master source in an ip-xact file and generate everything from there. 5) Overlays are supported. You never modify anything that you do not have engineering responsibility for. If you want to change a library part for a local design then you create a local part that uses the lib part and then all the changes are made in the local part. The master is never touched. 6) ComponentGenerators are supported. You can embed generators inside of a component that control how it is processed by other tools. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: An idea: rework design support
Would it be useful. Yes Would it be easy No. When you cut a trace you might split a node into two nodes. Or then again you might not if there is a loop on the PCB. You would need to extract connectivity from the layout to be sure. The cut on the PCB is unlikely to map to a nice easy spot on the schematic where you could make the equivalent cut. You may wind up having to redraw the schematic. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: directly connecting two nets?
The special symbols is supposed to fuse netnames as issued on the netlist, not labels on the schematic. --- If you are also fusing the copper on the board then I would kind of like to see that when I am viewing the schematic. You want to give the user a choice. If I pull up a component view then I want to see the signal names from the original designer. If I am traversing a hierarchy and open an instance view then I want to see the signal names that match the names in the parent instance. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: directly connecting two nets?
We would also need a way to force the chosen name of the net to choose when merging nets. e.g. When you merge a net named power with a net named 3v3_power, who wins? Steve The worst thing that you can do is to simply pick one and change all the others names to match. Imagine accidently connecting net FOO to a power grid and having every one of the power labels turn to FOO. This is one case where not allowing it might be the safest choice. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: icarus, fork, and recursive tasks
Message: 7 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 19:37:20 -0400 From: DJ Delorie [1...@delorie.com Subject: gEDA-user: icarus, fork, and recursive tasks To: [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org Message-ID: [3]201011062337.oa6nbkeu014...@envy.delorie.com I'm trying to simulate an MCU's bus processor, which has a couple of timing parameters all keyed off the start of a transaction. Naively, I did this: fork mcu_cson (address); mcu_wron (address); mcu_wdon (address); mcu_cswwait (address); join Each mcu_* task would wait the right number of cycles, toggle its line, and return. However, they all called one task (twait()) that did wait the right number of cycles. Not to usefully, they all shared the one task (or variable), and thus all exited at exactly the same time. How do I do a local instantiation of a task? I'm running iverilog-0.9.20091230 -- task automatic twait John Eaton References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. mailto:201011062337.oa6nbkeu014...@envy.delorie.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Functional blocks and PCB format changes
On Fri, Sep 03, 2010 at 09:08:25PM -0700, Andrew Poelstra wrote: XML is far too heavy, agreed, and it's signal-to-noise ratio is abysmal. True on both counts and you would never want to handcraft a xml document. But thats not how your supposed to use it. You want to write a tool in perl? You grab a xml lib, parse it into a perl data array to do all your work and then spit it back out as xml when you are finished. You never touch the xml. IC design is heading toward using xml as a means to automate design creation. If the IP-xact group ever gets their act together you can expect to see it extend into PCA data as well. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Functional blocks and PCB format changes
pin:
pinNumber: 2
pinName: rst
x1: 1234
y1: 4321
x2: 2345
y2: 4321
layer: component
or
pinpinNumber2/pinNumberpinNamerst\pinNamex11234\x1y
14321\y1x22345\x2y25432\y2layercomponent\layer\pin
I call the second large, bloat, and ugly.
-
Here you go:
===
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use warnings;
my $filename = shift @ARGV;
use XML::LibXML;
my $parser = XML::LibXML-new();
my $doc= $parser-parse_file($filename);
foreach
my $pin ($doc-findnodes('/pin')) {
my($pinNumber) = $pin-findnodes('./pinNumber/text()')-to_literal
;
my($pinName)= $pin-findnodes('./pinName/text()')-to_literal ;
my($x1) = $pin-findnodes('./x1/text()')-to_literal ;
my($y1) = $pin-findnodes('./y1/text()')-to_literal ;
my($x2) = $pin-findnodes('./x2/text()')-to_literal ;
my($y2) = $pin-findnodes('./y2/text()')-to_literal ;
my($layer) = $pin-findnodes('./layer/text()')-to_literal ;
print pin\n;
print pinNumber: $pinNumber\n;
print pinName: $pinName\n;
print x1: $x1\n;
print y1: $y1\n;
print x2: $x2\n;
print y2: $y2\n;
print layer: $layer\n;
}
=
Simple perl script will make things pretty again. (after you fix the
your backslashes). Only takes
one extra module (libXML) that you can apt-get on ubuntu. Going back
the other way is just as easy once
you write a parser for your format.
If size is an issue you can always store everything compressed. Then
we can have another argument about
whether we should create our own compression scheme or use an existing
one.
John Eaton
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gEDA-user: Honey, I shrunk the schematic
The grid units are arbitrary. Use a bigger title frame, and when you print to A4, everything will shrink. - Thats the advantage of ISO over English sheet sizes. You can't do that with A,B,C,D and E sized sheets John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: subnets
Using blocks in mechanical CAD has some issues with this. In principle there are 2 ways to use a block: a) copy and paste b) reference Naturally the edit one modify all can only work with referencing. Sometimes in a single construction this is not desired, so when duplicating one has the choice between reference and copy. With mechanical constructions this goes as far as changing the appearance of a referenced block, when when an external block is changed independently. This can be useful, if the interface of the block is well understood. Asic synthesis has a step called uniquification where you create a module and instantiate it multiple times. Uniquify will create a new module for each instance that can be modified independently from the others. You can also modify the master to change all the instances. It can get a little messy in that once you modify an instance then you can no longer touch the master or else all changes to the instance are lost. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: spice libs ( a little puzzled)
What you consider common circuit elements are undoubtedly different from what I commonly use. That's how it goes. You have to build your own library, just like I had to when I was using Pspice back in the '90s. Which is precisely the problem. This isn't the 90s. I grew up on BBC microcomputers. Do I feel nostalgic about the things I used to be able to do with those beauties ? Yes. Do I think that the associated workflow with them was superior to the workflow today (even with something as unreliable as Windows) ? Not a chance. My first spice deck was really a deck. Hammered out on an IBM 026 keypunch machine. The whole point of Open Source is that everybody doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. You spend time building a really nice and usable library then you make it available for everybody to use. Somebody will add some new components and someone else will add some nice support scripts and everybody benefits John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA programming
Oh bull. Lots of IDEs (and just plain text editors) do that just fine. There's *nothing* about software development of any kind that is unique to or first appeared in Microsoft Windows. -Dave - Other than Bob and Clippy is there anything of any kind that is unique to or first appeared in Microsoft Windows? John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: purpose of gschem
I am not new (though a tad rusty) to spice, or the usual design process. Years ago, I went through an analog circuit design, followed by a VLSI design class that involved the use of H-Spice, Mentor Graphics and Cadence software, basically Design Architect, (Modelsim for digital design), Accusim, IC Station, DRC, LVS workflow, with the (IIRC) AMI05 library. I guess I am asking - what purpose does gschem serve (other than to create pretty pictures, and being a humongous waste of time otherwise since its basically asking you to enter the entire spice script, albeit in disparate pretty boxes) ? -- The purpose of gschem is to provide X% of the functionality of the above mentioned tools at Y% of their cost where: X/Y = Some really big Number It is labor of love performed by designers who are fed up paying big $$$ for buggy eda tools. Those who want to take a turn being a tool maker instead of a tool user. Those who don't want to be dependent on an employer's licenses for their professional livelihood. Those who have spent time solving problems and want to help others with the same issues. Gschem is better called GAF ( gschem and friends) which is a open sourced tool set of various eda tools. Gschem itself is in pretty good shape. It's comparable to programs that I used that cost $3000. PCB is in good shape. I haven't used it for any boards but there is a lot of activity on these forums and a lot of people are using a gschem-PCB flow Beyond that it's kind of spotty. The gschem - spice flow is not polished and is more of an aide that is better than doing it all in text files while also providing usable documents. It's waiting for someone willing to come up with a solution and share it. You would need to create a library with all the basic spice components and attributes. Create any support tools or scripts that can do the gunt work and make the design flow easy and robust and then give it away for free. Around here people don't say Why doesn't somebody.. they say Why can't I John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Ubuntu 10.4 Beta2
I am testing out the new ubuntu 10.4 beta 2 in hopes that it can replace my current 9.04 install. ( I tried 9.10 but to much was broken). 10.4 will install geda 20100214 so I am also comparing that with 20081213 from 9.04. Comments The gschemrc layering is improving. If I copy system-gschemrc ~/.gEDA/gschemrc then 20081213 doesn't even come up, 20100214 does but duplicates the menu items. Do we need a reset menus command? Adding the switch from light - background in the menu was a great idea. Kudos to whoever did it. Rubberbanding doesn't work on nets. I used to be able to drop a net at 45 deg by hitting ctrl but not in 20100214. Buses still work , it's only on nets. Was this changed? There is a reference to a bus-ripper component that I could not find in any of the symbol libs. Does this exist? The little magnetic bubble that bounces to the nearest connect point is really nice. Good job on that one. John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I2C ringing
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:46:19 -0400 From: Jim [1]...@k4gvo.com Subject: gEDA-user: OT: I2C pullup resistor location To: gEDA user mailing list [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org Message-ID: [3]4bb62d6b.7050...@k4gvo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'm building a backplane board that will have a processor board (master) and 8 slaves using I2C across the backplane. Is there any advantage to placing the pullup resistors on the end of the backplane farthest from the processor board? I recall installing active termination on the old S-100 bus backplanes to overcome problems with ringing, I think. It's been too long. Thanks, Jim. No advantage. S-100 (yes I also built them) had an active driver and fast enough edges so that the length was long enough to be a transmission line. I2C is open drain so that the active driver is the pullup resistor. You might put it at the end so that it makes an open trace easy to detect. John References 1. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. mailto:4bb62d6b.7050...@k4gvo.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: picking a googlized name
Message: 8 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:59:37 +1300 From: Anthony Blake [1]tony...@gmail.com Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Toporouter update? To: gEDA user mailing list [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org Message-ID: [3]4ba40fe9.1020...@googlemail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed John Griessen wrote: kai-martin knaak wrote: Anthony Blake wrote: greenlight --- I'd strongly suggest to invent a new word rather than take an existing buzzword. The term greenlight currently yields 1.5 Mio google hits. A greenlight router would be almost as invisible to internet searches as pcb ;-) Oh, it wouldn't be that bad. Pcb is the tool's category name as well as being a common term. Searching for greenlight router would narrow down just fine. I would have liked to use the name 'greenstone', which has special meaning for NZ.. it is a type of jade only found here. Unfortunately my uni supervisor has already used that name for a project: [4]http://www.greenstone.org/ Maybe we could call it the greenstone router? Cheers, Anthony If you want to be found by google then follow the lead of the TV show numb3rs. Type that in and the show pops right up. Maybe we could set up a test page with some candidate names in the keywords to see what happens with a search. In today's world you pick the names that the search engines like or nobody will ever find you John Eaton References 1. mailto:tony...@gmail.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. mailto:4ba40fe9.1020...@googlemail.com 4. http://www.greenstone.org/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: any last minute advice prior to sending out for PCB fab
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:01 PM, gene glick [1]carzr...@optonline.net wrote: After a very long time, I am just about ready to send out 3 different boards for fab. ?I would appreciate any advice to improve my chances of success. Don't send all three at once. Send one and get it all the way through your process before sending the last two. John Eaton References 1. mailto:carzr...@optonline.net ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: which linux distribution
I recently tried updating from ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 but it was step in the wrong direction. Had to back it out. Ever try doing an install when the bottom edge is off the screen? John Eaton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
