Re: gEDA-user: solder/component --> top/bottom ?
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> b) The names of the copper groups in
> File -> Preferences -> Groups
>
> c) The help text in
> File -> Preferences -> Info
patch atttached for the preference dialog
---<)kaimartin(>---
--
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Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user.
Why? Because it is completely intransparent.>From 1136147170b47926ed00f8f2e24f3f2ed00f580c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Kai-Martin Knaak
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 04:15:03 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] top-bottom-in-preference-dialog-of-GTK-HID
This patch replaces "component" and "solder" in the preference dialog of
GTK HID with "top" and "bottom". Incindences were in the layer group
tab and in the text of the info tab.
---
src/hid/gtk/gui-config.c | 32
1 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 16 deletions(-)
diff --git a/src/hid/gtk/gui-config.c b/src/hid/gtk/gui-config.c
index dba0635..b46b3fb 100644
--- a/src/hid/gtk/gui-config.c
+++ b/src/hid/gtk/gui-config.c
@@ -1243,7 +1243,7 @@ static gboolean groups_modified, groups_holdoff, layers_applying;
static gchar *layer_info_text[] = {
N_("Layer Names\n"),
N_("You may enter layer names for the layers drawn on the screen.\n"
- "The special 'component side' and 'solder side' are layers which\n"
+ "The special 'top side' and 'bottom side' are layers which\n"
"will be printed out, so they must have in their group at least one\n"
"of the other layers that are drawn on the screen.\n"),
"\n",
@@ -1257,7 +1257,7 @@ static gchar *layer_info_text[] = {
"\n",
N_("For example, for a 4 layer board a useful layer group arrangement\n"
"can be to have 3 screen displayed layers grouped into the same group\n"
- "as the 'component side' and 'solder side' printout layers. Then\n"
+ "as the 'top side' and 'bottom side' printout layers. Then\n"
"groups such as signals, ground, and supply traces can be color\n"
"coded on the screen while printing as a single layer. For this\n"
"you would select buttons and enter names on the Setup page to\n"
@@ -1265,23 +1265,23 @@ static gchar *layer_info_text[] = {
"\n",
N_("Group 1:"),
"\n\t",
- N_("solder"),
+ N_("top"),
"\n\t",
- N_("GND-solder"),
+ N_("GND-top"),
"\n\t",
- N_("Vcc-solder"),
+ N_("Vcc-top"),
"\n\t",
- N_("solder side"),
+ N_("top side"),
"\n",
N_("Group 2:"),
"\n\t",
- N_("component"),
+ N_("bottom"),
"\n\t",
- N_("GND-component"),
+ N_("GND-bottom"),
"\n\t",
- N_("Vcc-component"),
+ N_("Vcc-bottom"),
"\n\t",
- N_("component side"),
+ N_("bottom side"),
"\n",
N_("Group 3:"),
"\n\t",
@@ -1396,21 +1396,21 @@ config_layers_apply (void)
}
/* do some cross-checking
- | solder-side and component-side must be in different groups
- | solder-side and component-side must not be the only one in the group
+ | top-side and bottom-side must be in different groups
+ | top-side and bottom-side must not be the only one in the group
*/
if (layer_groups.Number[soldergroup] <= 1
|| layer_groups.Number[componentgroup] <= 1)
{
Message (_
- ("Both 'solder side' or 'component side' layers must have at least\n"
+ ("Both, 'top side' and 'bottom side' layer must have at least\n"
"\tone other layer in their group.\n"));
return;
}
else if (soldergroup == componentgroup)
{
Message (_
- ("The 'solder side' and 'component side' layers are not allowed\n"
+ ("The 'top side' and 'bottom side' layers are not allowed\n"
"\tto be in the same layer group #\n"));
return;
}
@@ -1521,9 +1521,9 @@ ghid_config_groups_changed(void)
for (layer = 0; layer < max_copper_layer + 2; ++layer)
{
if (layer == component_silk_layer)
- name = _("component side");
+ name = _("top side");
else if (layer == solder_silk_layer)
- name = _("solder side");
+ name = _("bottom side");
else
name = (gchar *) UNKNOWN (PCB->Data->Layer[layer].Name);
--
1.7.5.4
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Re: gEDA-user: solder/component --> top/bottom ?
DJ Delorie wrote:
> From the user's point of view, we use top/bottom [hopefully]
> consistently.
There are at least three places in the GTK-GUI that still expose
"solder/component":
a) The first item on the left in the status line, which gives a
hint on the side the canvas shows. (patch attached)
b) The names of the copper groups in
File -> Preferences -> Groups
c) The help text in
File -> Preferences -> Info
---<)kaimartin(>---
--
Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de
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Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user.
Why? Because it is completely intransparent.>From 0151d48168c53e6d57d60144d139e1504450ca65 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Kai-Martin Knaak
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 03:54:52 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] top/bottom in status line of GTK-HID
This patch replaces "component" and "solder" in the leftmost item of the
status line of the GTK HID with "top" and "bottom".
---
src/hid/gtk/gui-misc.c |2 +-
1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
diff --git a/src/hid/gtk/gui-misc.c b/src/hid/gtk/gui-misc.c
index 0f8daf7..e84b276 100644
--- a/src/hid/gtk/gui-misc.c
+++ b/src/hid/gtk/gui-misc.c
@@ -413,7 +413,7 @@ ghid_set_status_line_label (void)
"text=%i%% "
"buffer=#%i"),
Settings.grid_unit->allow,
- Settings.ShowSolderSide ? _("solder") : _("component"),
+ Settings.ShowSolderSide ? _("bottom") : _("top"),
PCB->Grid,
flag, TEST_FLAG (RUBBERBANDFLAG, PCB) ? ",R " : " ",
Settings.LineThickness,
--
1.7.5.4
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gEDA-user: solder/component --> top/bottom ?
Just got fooled by the classic solder/component vs top/bottom, again. It just won't stick with me, that "solder" is supposed to be a synonym to "top". I addressed the issue before about a year ago: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.geda.user/31354/focus=31356 Consensus seemed to be that top/bottom is the way to go. Since then, the naming scheme of gerber export was changed accordingly. Same with the default layer names of a new layout. But the rest of the code and the docs is still working with solder/component. On some occasions, it is even back/front side. I'd be motivated to prepare a series of patches to get away with solder/component once and for all. Would be a bit of work, though. So I'll ask before I spend hunting them down: Would such a patch get applied (provided, it is well formed and all)? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: help with pcb dsn plugin
DJ Delorie wrote: >> Is the above the exact syntax ? > > PCB follows the GNU coding standards, (.. snip ..) > The only exception, usually, is comments Is this also true for the c portion of gschem, gnetlist, gerbvierw, etc. ? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: windows and opengl
DJ Delorie wrote: >> The most obvious difference between the windows version of PCB and >> the one built for linux is transparency. Why is this so? > > We couldn't get it working correctly in time. Is there a serious road block? Can I tell potential users that this will most likely be rectified on a reasonable time frame -- Say in, in a few months? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: help with pcb dsn plugin
Peter Clifton wrote:
> PCB mostly has a consistent style, and we won't apply patches which
> don't follow that.
>
> Two space indents,
>
> if (test)
> {
> statements (like, this);
> }
> else
> {
> even_if_they_ARE_horrid ();
> }
Can the style conventions be found anywhere in a halfway comprehensive
written form?
---<)kaimartin(>---
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gEDA-user: windows and opengl
The most obvious difference between the windows version of PCB and the one built for linux is transparency. Why is this so? If I read the opengl description correctly, all windows versions should be able to deal with opengl commands even if a driver for hardware acceleration is missing. And of course every graphics card manufacturer provides accelerated drivers for windows. Wouldn't openGL "just work" in such an environment? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Zoom bug on Windows
DJ Delorie wrote: > >> It sounds like 'bash' needs to be selected as the program to run > > That would be tricky, as we don't install bash. Maybe, win-bash is an option: http://sourceforge.net/projects/win-bash/ ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: unconnected tracks
Peter Clifton wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 02:02 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
>> here comes the forgotten patch for more intuitive select and
>> unselect menu items.
>
> If there are corresponding items in pcb-menu.res, it would be good to
> keep those in sync as we change gpcb-menu.res, otherwise - looks
> good.
Here comes a supplemented patch.
I also corrected a glitch: The original patch changed gpcb-menu.res
rather than gpcb-menu.res.in .
---<)kaimartin(>---
--
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Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user.
Why? Because it is completely intransparent.>From 597e6ff58522e22ea1ed9629b60f4d9d1202d267 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Kai-Martin Knaak
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 00:48:37 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] More accurate description of Select() and Unselect() action
Unlike the menu and the texi manual suggest, Select(Connection) does not check
for connectivity. Instead, it acts on visible objects with the found flag set.
In addition, the select() and unselect() actions act only on objects in visible
layers. This patch changes the menu and the texi documentation accordingly.
---
doc/pcb.texi |8
src/action.c |6 +++---
src/gpcb-menu.res.in |4 ++--
src/pcb-menu.res.in |4 ++--
4 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
diff --git a/doc/pcb.texi b/doc/pcb.texi
index d543a2c..cdf4a04 100644
--- a/doc/pcb.texi
+++ b/doc/pcb.texi
@@ -3942,9 +3942,9 @@ There are no defaults.
@itemx Select(ElementByName|ObjectByName|PadByName|PinByName)
@itemx Select(TextByName|ViaByName)
Toggles either the selection flag of the object at the cross hair position
-(@emph{ToggleObject}) or selects all visible objects, all inside a
-rectangle or all objects which have been found during the last connection
-scan. The @emph{ByName} functions use a @ref{Regular Expressions} search,
+(@emph{ToggleObject}) or selects all visible objects, all visible objects inside
+a rectangle or all objects which are visible and have the ``found'' flag set.
+The @emph{ByName} functions use a @ref{Regular Expressions} search,
always case insensitive, to select the objects.
Default:
@example
@@ -4084,7 +4084,7 @@ UnloadVendor()
@cindex unselect objects
@item Unselect(All|Block|Connection)
Unselects all visible objects, all inside a rectangle or all objects which
-have been found during the last connection scan.
+are visible and the ``found'' flag set.
Default:
@example
!Shift : Mode(Save) Mode(None) Unselect(Block)
diff --git a/src/action.c b/src/action.c
index 1923cf9..d241025 100644
--- a/src/action.c
+++ b/src/action.c
@@ -5316,13 +5316,13 @@ type specified are selected.
Selects the object under the cursor.
@item Block
-Selects all objects in a rectangle indicated by the cursor.
+Selects all visible objects in a rectangle indicated by the cursor.
@item All
-Selects all objects on the board.
+Selects all objects on visible layers.
@item Connection
-Selects all connections with the ``found'' flag set.
+Selects all visible objects with the ``found'' flag set.
@item Convert
Converts the selected objects to an element. This uses the highest
diff --git a/src/gpcb-menu.res.in b/src/gpcb-menu.res.in
index 7e63811..c69ae46 100644
--- a/src/gpcb-menu.res.in
+++ b/src/gpcb-menu.res.in
@@ -229,10 +229,10 @@ MainMenu =
#
{"Select" m=l
{"Select all visible objects" Select(All)}
- {"Select all connected objects" Select(Connection)}
+ {"Select visible found objects" Select(Connection)}
-
{"Unselect all objects" Unselect(All)}
- {"unselect all connected objects" Unselect(Connection)}
+ {"Unselect visible found objects" Unselect(Connection)}
-
{"Select by name"
{"All objects" Select(ObjectByName) active=have_regex}
diff --git a/src/pcb-menu.res.in b/src/pcb-menu.res.in
index 7e6e8bd..477edf1 100644
--- a/src/pcb-menu.res.in
+++ b/src/pcb-menu.res.in
@@ -221,10 +221,10 @@ MainMenu =
{Select
{"Select all visible objects" Select(All)}
- {"Select all connected objects" Select(Connection)}
+ {"Select visible found objects" Select(Connection)}
-
{"Unselect all objects" Unselect(All)}
- {"unselect all connected objects" Unselect(Connection)}
+ {"Unselect visible found objects" Unselect(Connection)}
-
{"Select by name" foreground=grey50 sensitive=false}
{"All objects" Select(ObjectByName) active=have_regex}
--
1.7.5.4
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Re: gEDA-user: Zoom bug on Windows
DJ Delorie wrote: > >> (I still have to find a way to get rid of the ListLibraryContents.sh >> problem) > > Should we just accept the fact that Windows won't have > script-generated footprints, and #ifdef it out? So the correct answer to the dialog in winXP would have been a binary of a m4 compiler? As for the removal: I couldn't care less. My only connection to m4 is the effort necessary to not use it. Currently, my PCB post install script moves the m4 library out of the way, so gnetlist called by import schematics does not find it and prefer it over the footprints in my own lib. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Zoom bug on Windows
DJ Delorie wrote: > Another try (url changed to make sure you don't get a stale copy): > > ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/geda-windows/snapshots/pcb-20110916-2.exe Sucess! This binary is able to zoom on my virtualboxed winXP. (I still have to find a way to get rid of the ListLibraryContents.sh problem) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Zoom bug on Windows
DJ Delorie wrote: > Try this snapshot: > > ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/geda-windows/snapshots/pcb-20110916.exe I tried in a virtual box with winXP. Now, I better understand Bobs problem. On the first call of the application, I got a dialog that asked which application to use for "ListLibraryContents.sh". The windows noob in me guessed, that this is supposed to be the pcb binary. So I happily navigated to the snapshot dir and selected pcb. This was a terrible mistake. Whenever I try to start PCB, it enters a loop and literally spawns more and more copies of PCB until all memory is used. These opies are not easy to kill, because they don't react fast enough. WinXP insists to ask wether it should sende a report to microoft for every single kill... Unfortunately, a remove and reinstall does not remove this problem. The faulty setting must resides somewhere in the windows configs. How I can get rid of them? And what should be the correct setting in the first place? Anyway, after I clicked through the kill of 66 of the 67 copies, I got a responding PCB application. A sample layout did load fine. Zoom still does not work -- Not with the mouse and not with zZ. pan is ok, though. My keyboard is German. The locale of the windows binary is "DE". ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Why do you want this feedback? The highlighting is meant to give a > tactile feel to the layer selector, nothing more. There is more to it. Obvious feedback can make a fast switch of layers more efficient. > Pcb doesn't care > what layer the mouse is over. It does not care, what scrollbar, or what toolbox button the mouse is over, either. Yet both of them highlight. > The user shouldn't care what layer the mouse is over. For sure I do. I want to know exactly, what layer is going to be activated before I give the mouse a click. It is pleasant to see this on first glance without having to actually focus the eyes to the widget. (Yes, the accel keys are even better at it. But this is not the point.) > The old highlight mode was awful. I don't want to have it back!! ;-) All I am asking for, is that the highlighting of the new box is obvious. > (The default gtk button prelighting is even less visible than > my layer swatch business -- look at the "Route Styles" button.) This depends on the GTK style. Some styles feature very obvious highlighting on mouse-over of radio buttons, some make it less obvious and some don't hint at all. I for one use a slightly modified version of the theme wasp, which is one of the default themes distributed with gnome in debian. See the attached screenshots how this theme renders mouse-over of route styles. The other clickable items in the PCB GUI behave in a similar way -- Tool box, scroll bar, and even menu items. For consistency, the layer box should behave the same. While at it, you might also consider to change the background color of the layer box to be consistent with the rest of the GUI widgets. Currently, it sticks out. BTW, wasp is not the only theme to do such obvious highlighting. The popular nuvola and gorilla themes do the same. > I have never seen a select box with prelighting > like you suggest, and evidently neither have the gtk folks. They do so with radio buttons. And the PCB layer box certainly has a radio button aspect to it. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Zoom bug on Windows
Peter Clifton wrote: > I will take bets that all the locales where this was reported - Dutch, > Finish, German - use "," as a decimal separator rather than ".". Bingo! Looks like the world is split in half on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DecimalSeparator.svg --<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Here is some visual feedback. It brightens the swatches when > the mouse is over the row, a little bit. Let me know what you > think of it. > This feedback is in git-head now. However, it is a very subtle effect. Much too suptle for my taste. I can hardly tell the difference, if the mouse is at rest. Compare this to the strong optical feeedback the traditional layer buttons provided: A frame colored in GTKs select color combined with an inverted font color. You can easily spot the button, the mouse is over, even on a black&white screenshot. IMHO, an increase in size would work better - Much like many desktop manager do, when they prelight icons on mouse-over. Best would be a changed background. (Did I understand you correctly, that this can't be done easily with the chosen widget?) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: unconnected tracks
here comes the forgotten patch for more intuitive select and unselect
menu items.
---<)kaimartin(>---
--
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Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user.
Why? Because it is completely intransparent.>From bd2dc635ec2a93647bf0918d6dd38c2390183998 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Kai-Martin Knaak
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 21:19:01 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] More accurate description of Select() and Unselect() action
Unlike the menu and the texi manual suggest, Select(Connection) does not check
for connectivity. Instead, it acts on visible objects with the found flag set.
In addition, the select() and unselect() actions act only on objects in visible
layers. This patch changes the menu and the texi documentation accordingly.
---
doc/pcb.texi |8
src/action.c |6 +++---
src/gpcb-menu.res |4 ++--
3 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)
diff --git a/doc/pcb.texi b/doc/pcb.texi
index cb09c00..f4ac81b 100644
--- a/doc/pcb.texi
+++ b/doc/pcb.texi
@@ -4265,9 +4265,9 @@ There are no defaults.
@itemx Select(ElementByName|ObjectByName|PadByName|PinByName)
@itemx Select(TextByName|ViaByName)
Toggles either the selection flag of the object at the cross hair position
-(@emph{ToggleObject}) or selects all visible objects, all inside a
-rectangle or all objects which have been found during the last connection
-scan. The @emph{ByName} functions use a @ref{Regular Expressions} search,
+(@emph{ToggleObject}) or selects all visible objects, all visible objects inside
+a rectangle or all objects which are visible and have the ``found'' flag set.
+The @emph{ByName} functions use a @ref{Regular Expressions} search,
always case insensitive, to select the objects.
Default:
@example
@@ -4407,7 +4407,7 @@ UnloadVendor()
@cindex unselect objects
@item Unselect(All|Block|Connection)
Unselects all visible objects, all inside a rectangle or all objects which
-have been found during the last connection scan.
+are visible and the ``found'' flag set.
Default:
@example
!Shift : Mode(Save) Mode(None) Unselect(Block)
diff --git a/src/action.c b/src/action.c
index 9b67924..59f487b 100644
--- a/src/action.c
+++ b/src/action.c
@@ -5358,13 +5358,13 @@ type specified are selected.
Selects the object under the cursor.
@item Block
-Selects all objects in a rectangle indicated by the cursor.
+Selects all visible objects in a rectangle indicated by the cursor.
@item All
-Selects all objects on the board.
+Selects all objects on visible layers.
@item Connection
-Selects all connections with the ``found'' flag set.
+Selects all visible objects with the ``found'' flag set.
@item Convert
Converts the selected objects to an element. This uses the highest
diff --git a/src/gpcb-menu.res b/src/gpcb-menu.res
index e9469e9..371fb5f 100644
--- a/src/gpcb-menu.res
+++ b/src/gpcb-menu.res
@@ -229,10 +229,10 @@ MainMenu =
#
{"Select"
{"Select all visible objects" Select(All)}
- {"Select all connected objects" Select(Connection)}
+ {"Select visible found objects" Select(Connection)}
-
{"Unselect all objects" Unselect(All)}
- {"unselect all connected objects" Unselect(Connection)}
+ {"Unselect visible found objects" Unselect(Connection)}
-
{"Select by name"
{"All objects" Select(ObjectByName) active=have_regex}
--
1.7.5.4
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Re: gEDA-user: unconnected tracks
Russell Dill wrote: >> Is there any way in PCB to select all unconnected track segments in >> a layout? > > I thought "select all visible objects" followed by "unselect all > connected objects" might work. But then I realized that I don't > really understand what "all connected objects" is supposed ot mean. > This means all objects, that fit both of these conditions: 1) They bear the found flag. This flag is typically set by the find action, accel key [f]. But there are also other ways to mark an object as "found". 2) They are on visible layers. Similar conditions apply to "select-all". (The attached patch changes the menu to better reflects this meaning.) Your hint shifts the problem to "How to find all objects that are connected to some net". I don't see a GUI way to achieve this. It might be doable with a plugin... ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: unconnected tracks
Is there any way in PCB to select all unconnected track segments in a layout? This would come handy on redesign. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
DJ Delorie wrote: > You're talking about two different things now. > > PCB's installed library is automatically set up at install time. Ah. I misread Bobs comment and thougt, he had to go to some windows dialog and change DLL paths there. If it is about the footprint lib, I agree with you. It would be nice to have them updated immediately. But I certainly would not call that "not working". ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Still unhappy with moderation of geda-user. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
DJ Delorie wrote: >> File -> Preferences -> Library -> Add a library path >> then "Restart program for changes to take effect". > > This is how it works in Linux too, though. > Most linux users don't see this as it is automatically done by the post install scripts of their distro. They choose "geda" in the package manager, press install and are done. No need to add paths to anything. ---<)kmknaak(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to disable specific hooks?
Jared Casper wrote: > http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Hook-Reference.html > > Looks like there is a remove-hook! function, or just reset-hook! and > start over with what you want. Thank you for the pointer! I tried reset-hook! and it did the job. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: howto toporoute?
Rubén Gómez Antolí wrote: > Webarchive has a copy at 13 Septembre, 2010. I hope it helps: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20100913034623/http://anthonix.resnet.scms.waikato.ac.nz/toporouter/ Thanks. Unfortunately, the site contains nothing about usage and parameters. However, I found by trial and error that this sort of works: toporouter(selected) It only sort of works, because autorouting of a single trace takes just about as long as routing the whole layout. This does not matter for very small projects But it becomes prohibitive for medium size. The project I was aiming at, contains 388 pads with generous amount of space between the components. A call of toporouter for a single connection took about twelf minutes during which the application did not respond to anything. One core of my quad core desktop was 100% under steam. Ten connections needed about the same time. The whole layout took about an hour before it crashed with segfault. This was with PCB v20100929. (The toporouter is currently broken in git-head, because of the mil to nanometer conversion.) Seems like the toporouter would need more than just GUI integration and user accessible parameters to become a viable option. :-| ---<)kaiamrtin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: How to disable specific hooks?
Some hooks of gschem are hooked in by default in system-gschemrc. Most of these are fine. But some don't mix well with my style of schematics (e.g. autoplace-object-attributes) Is there a way to unhook these short of editing system-gschemrc? I thought about overloading with some kind of NOP script in my personal gschemrc. But being a noob with guile I just don't know where to start. Any hints? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: reasons for wikibook (was: plugins)
Geoff Swan wrote: > +1 I think it unlikely that a gEDA wiki would be targeted. It is very likely to be targeted by semi clever spam bots. I administrate a couple of wikis. Plain, anonymous write accesss had to be disabled because they caught spam bots trying to distribute their spew after a few weeks. Captchas work well for edits works as an antidot. But they are a hassle to legitimate users, too. The only site I know, that manage to get away with open write access to anyone and anything are those with a massive amount of users. Most significantly: the projects run by wikimedia (wikipedia, wikibooks, wikisource, wikicommons, ...). This is one of the arguments in favor of wikibooks: The social/technical environment is already there, well tested and found to be working. > I think wikimedia keeps a history so it may be trivial to restore an This is part of the wiki concept. Consequently, virtually all wiki software stores versions and allows for reverts. This includes dokuwiki, which is behind the screens of gpleda.org. ---<)kaimartin(>---- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
Colin D Bennett wrote: >> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/geda-windows/ > > Well, I wasn't looking for a Windows build at the moment when you > sent that message, Note, that this build contains a potential show-stopper for PCB: At least on winXP it fails to zoom. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/843577 ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
DJ Delorie wrote: >> I still have to decide, where to start. An overview? A getting >> started? A HOWTO? A table of contents to be filled? > > Based on what kinds of questions I tend to answer in irc and email, I > think the relative priority should be: > > * Introductory tutorials that demonstrate the most common flows, IMHO, this should not be plural. That is, a getting started should decide for one work-flow and stick with it. A reader should not feel the necessity to decide between options before he/she can grasp the consequences. On the other hand, the flexibilities should not be completely hidden, either. How about this: Redo the toy task of the getting-started with different work-flows. > showing off the most current and I'd say, tutorials are not a place to show off, but to teach. (Mayby I am overly picky with words...) > newbie-friendly ways of using the tools. ^^^ Here comes the hard part: "What exactly is newbie-friendly?" Is it a step-by-step walk through a minimum manual set-up of a project? Or is a scripted set-up wich results in a full fledged project dir complete with local configs and makefiles? Both have their pros and cons. > * How-to's for tasks which are less common, showing off the "toolkit" > features. I like to imagine this in the form of show-casing real world projects which demonstrate how specific tasks can be achieved. Ideally, the show-cases would include source files at different stages. Topics for advanced use: * drawing symbols * creating footprints manually on PCB canvas * creating footprints with the various generators * scripted printing * use of makefiles * a self contained project dir * simple hierarchy * hierarchy with sub sheets used several times * layout with repetative portions * source control with git Additional items: * A vademecum of keyboard accels, actions, file formats and important command line options. This is kind of a reference manual light. * the history of geda, gaf, pcb, etc. * getting started with simulation (unfortunately, I am a complete noob for this) > * Replacements for the reference manuals. Reference manuals should be comprehensive, accurate and reflect the status of a specific version. Overall style and readability are less a concern. This calls for tight coupling to the source and inclusion in the make tool chain. The concept of collaborative online editing does not mix well with such a scripted approach. It is part of the source and should be treated as such. > * Internals docs for new developers. This is clearly a task for core developers and way beyond the scope of what I intend to start. Anyway, I wouldn't sort the priority of these documents in any specific order. All of them are vital for the project -- each in a different way. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Moderation of geda-user seems to be lifted, lately. I am still unhappy with it. Why? Because it is completely nontransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: reasons for wikibook (was: plugins)
Vladimir Zhbanov wrote: > On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 10:51:31PM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: >> I am close to start off a gEDA wikibook (http://en.wikibooks.org). >> Would you join the effort? > How about updating the existing wiki documentation? Reasons to go for wikibooks: a) IMHO, it is good practice to have a user manual completely separate from documentation of features, formats and APIs. While the latter has to be complete, comprehensive and super correct, the former should focus on ease of use. These are conflicting goals. Think automatic extraction from the source versus a) wikibooks provides a full fledged environment geared toward cooperative work on text documents. It comes with all the communication features you need (discussion page associated with each content page, user discussion, email). b) mediawiki syntax is rich in features and proven to work for large groups of authors. c) There is a host of howtos and help pages for each and every feature that mediawiki delivers. d) There are versions in many languages. This is good for translation. e) The entry barrier is as low as it can get. If general readers spot a glitch, they can press the edit button correct the error and are done. This provides a opportunity to foster participation of more users. Compare this to the circumstances inside the geda project. You need to send an email to an admin to even see the edit buttons in the gpleda-wiki. Changes to the pcb manual require git patches and an approval by core devs like changes to the code in git-head. Given the consistent tendency toward more wall-in over the years, I don't expect this attitude to change anytime soon. f) The geda devs have no more say in what goes in a wiki book, than any other user. g) There is a kicad wikibook. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kicad ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak, Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Moderation of geda-user seems to be lifted somewhat, lately. I am still unhappy with it. Why? Because it is completely nontransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
Abhijit Kshirsagar wrote: > Somehow missed this thread and replied on the other one... Count me > in for documentation. Please let me know what I can do. I still have to decide, where to start. An overview? A getting started? A HOWTO? A table of contents to be filled? > Some of the documentation I have written previously is here: > gEDA-Tutorials.pdf on > https://sites.google.com/site/abhijit86k/linux/geda Nice. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Moderation of geda-user seems to be lifted somewhat, lately. I am still unhappy with it. Why? Because it is completely nontransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: howto toporoute?
My current board might go well with autorouting -- Loads of space between the components. I'd like to give the toporouter a try. But how to use it? The binary is git-head, configured with --enable-toporouter . And then what? I successfully guessed that there is a command toporouter(). Since I gave the command, an hour ago, one core of my desktop is busy... How do I stop it short of killing PCB, wholesale? Is there a way to route just a single net? Any documentation on the use of the toporouter anywhere? Unfortunately, its original site seems to be out of business :-| ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Moderation of geda-user seems to be lifted, lately. I am still unhappy with it. Why? Because it is completely intransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB segfaults when the "Route style" button is clicked
Ivan Stankovic wrote: > I'm using PCB from git master (9dde48253c..) and it segfaults > when the "Route Styles" button is clicked. Here's how to reproduce: > > 1. use PCB to make an empty pcb file > 2. start PCB again and load the empty file with "File -> Load layout" > 3. choose "Power" route style, then click on the "Route Styles" > button >to bring up the dialog; close the dialog > 4. choose "Signal" route style, then click on the "Route Styles" > button >to bring up the dialog; close the dialog > 5. repeat steps 3 and 4 in order, until PCB segfaults I can confirm. Current git head PCB segfaults on me, too. Sometimes on first iteration, sometimes later. Interestingly, it does not want to segfault if I do not load the previously saved empty layout. At step 3 I notice a difference: With the reloaded layout, the field for the route style name is empty. Maybe, this is a hint for the cause. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
John Griessen wrote: > Another reason gschem would benefit from no-recompile-required key > binding configurability with action sequences. Besides keys, they > can go to menu picks or buttons with user language usage hints. If gschem wouldn't mess with the menu widget, GTK would allow for accel configuration onb the fly. This works to an extend with PCB-gtk: Open the menu, move the mouse to the item to be configured and type whatever accel you are up to. This accel is immediately in effect. This is a standard feature of GTK applications. On a Gnome desktop you might have to set "gnome -> interface -> can_change_accels" in gconf-editor. The only aspect that does not work with PCB-gtk, is that the config is lost at the end of a session. I sometimes use it anyway, if a task calls for repeated application of menu actions that are accel-less by default. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: key accels (was: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA)
Dylan Smith wrote: > As one of the people who likes the two key shortcut method (due to > being able to mouse with one hand and keyboard with the other, a bit > like when playing an FPS :-)) Very much like with PCB -- Since layers are on [1], [2], [..] and tools are on [F1], F2], [..], me routing a board looks very much like someone playing starcraft 2. :-P IMHO, right hand on mouse, left hand on keyboard is not tied to two key accels at all. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
John Griessen wrote: > The number of people using it one way or the other would be voted for > with tutorials written and promoted. ... and create quite some confusion during the process. Does not look like a good idea to me. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: accel keys (was: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA)
DJ Delorie wrote: > But gschem and pcb have completely different toolsets and common > tasks. It would be difficult to make them "the same" outside of the > usual common key mappings (cut, paste, undo). There are a few more that could potentially be matched: gschempcb * start drawing a net [n] start drawing a track [F2] * edit some text [ex] edit some text [n] * rotate by 90° [er]rotate by 90° [F9] + mouse click * find specific text [t shift-f]select by name (no accel, yet) * cut selected objects [del]cut selected objects [backspace] * draw a rectangle [b] draw a rectangle [F5] + mouse click * draw a circle [ai]draw a circle (no GUI tool) * edit attributes [ee] edit attributes (no accel, yet) * toggle rubberband [or]toggle rubberband (no accel, yet) * increase grid spacing []] increase grid spacing [ctrl-g] * decrease grid spacing [[] decrease grid spacing [ctrl-shift-g] * incr. line thickness (no accel) incr. line thickness [s] * decr. line thickness (no accel) incr. line thickness [shift-s] * toggle magnetic mode (no accel) crosshair snaps to pins and pads (no accel) * save [fs] save layout [ctrl-s] * save as [fa] save layout as [shift-ctrl-s] * open [fo] load layout (no accel) * new [fn] new layout [ctrl-n] * quit [alt-q] quit [ctrl-q] With a few exceptions I'd prefer the PCB accels. The most notable exception is [ctrl-n]. This is dangerously close to [n] and has fooled me more than once. A special case is "edit text". In both applications, this really should be in place on the canvas triggered by double click. I hardly know any other application these days, that pops up a dialog. Did anyone ever try to build accel tables optimized for compatibility between gschem and PCB? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
Jared Casper wrote: > I read this comment to mean that the relative scale of the default > titlebox and default symbol library should be such that if you print > a page contained within the titleblock out on an A/letter size paper, > the symbols are a reasonable size. I don't have time to check now, > but iirc, the default titlebox is way to small for size of the > default symbols (I replaced the default titlebox with my own bigger > one on probably the second day of using gschem). My solution: A titleblock symbol that is really just that. A box, which contains the title, date, version and author, to be printed on the bottom of a page. Because these are global attributes, they can be edited wholesale with the attribute editing dialog. But the symbol includes no frame. I draw the frame after the fact to fit the schematic. The ability to expand on demand is handy, if the circuit needs some more components. http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/symbols/titleblock/title-block.sym ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
John Hudak wrote: > Um, with all due respectI don't consider myself 'simple > minded' (...) > and finally: "Smart people seems to have not really big problems > with current gEDA state." Note, that Stefan is not a native speaker. We, who use english as a foreign language, have a hard time to get the tone right. I can guess the german phrases Stefan had in mind. Let me assure you, their subtext is far less offensive and more tongue in cheek. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB panner control
Colin D Bennett wrote: > pcb will be better than ever before > now that auto-scroll is out of my way. Is anyone else bothered by > auto-scroll?) Me. I habitually turn it off with the right mouse button, whenever I see these little squares where the lines of the cross cursor hit the edge of the canvas. Auto scroll just goes on forever, when I reach for the menu or change styles during manual routing. Makes it a no-no for me. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
Dan Roganti wrote: > I'll be glad to help anyone in this development group with this > documentation work. I am close to start off a gEDA wikibook (http://en.wikibooks.org). Would you join the effort? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Strange user interface behavior with gschem-1.6.2.20110115
Josef Wolf wrote: > With this work flow, you'd have as much (or even more) mouse clicks > as without the tool. So what's the point of using the tool if you > have _more_ work with it than without it? I don't seem to have have more work than without it. Benefits: You can zoom way out and still be able to hit that pin point rather than the neighboring grid node. On medium zoom level, you can be more sloppy where you actually click. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
John Griessen wrote: > I bet gEDA seems too complicated. I bet not :-) CERN software engeneers don't fear complexity -- not under the hood, nor on the interface. They strive for elegance and excellent results instead. See the structure and the UI of paw, or root. > The main thing was probably they asked me to be their gEDA rep. > because I was a list member of > upda...@lists.openhardwaresummit.org > and I said too busy, I'll ask the core developers. I don't remember > anyone getting excited or involved, so they figured not enough > cooperation/interest. Yes. There was a significant difference to be felt on the mailing list. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
John Hudak wrote: > Anyway, I switched to using KiCAD and it was like going from driving a FIAT > stick to driving a 911 stick. Just a head-up note: When I tried kicad a few months back, I felt the exact opposite. I just did not seem to get anywhere with a little test project. Of course this is because of my strong geda back ground and I sure missed a lot of advanced kicad features. But it is a hint that kicad is not (yet) in a position to win hands down, no matter what metric is applied. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
John Hudak wrote: > Anyway, I switched to using KiCAD and it was like going from driving a FIAT > stick to driving a 911 stick... Please elaborate on this one. What exactly constituted the difference that made you feel like that? You already told us about the library/M4 thing. But there was certainly more. What was it? ---<)kaiamrtin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
Steve Meier wrote: > you all never worried about cern before? why start now? better to just > keep focused on your current customers then unknown future additional > users. For what its worth: Yes, I am worried about geda not being the preferred EDA tool in a scientific environment, becausethis is where I work. Traditionally, it is eagle, that "everybody" uses. Actually, I have been worrying ever since I seriously started with it. Its no fun to be the odd ball... CERN is a missed opportunity. No reason to deny it, no reason to give up, either. But maybe an occasion to think about the reasons. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: time for a pcb release cycle?
DJ Delorie wrote: > Also, please try the windows installer nightly builds: > http://www.delorie.com/pcb/geda-windows/ > This afternoon I talked one of the PhD students into trying the nightly build on her WinXP dexktop. The pcb binary loaded fine and looked good with the new layer selection box and all. A fairly complex layout also loaded fine. However, there was no way to zoom in. Zoom with the mouse wheel did not work and accel [z] did not work. Neither did the zoom items in the view menu. (We did not try gschem, due to time constraints) I went on to install the same build in a winXP that lives in a virtualbox environment on my debian dektop. This install showed the same symptoms. If I recall correctly, I have already seen this last time when the windows topic was on the mailing list (and reported it to the list). Maybe, I do something systematiclly wrong. Now, that I write about it, I suspect, it is the path variable. Although I thought, pcb does not need this in the first place. I'll check tomorrow. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
DJ Delorie wrote: > Which part? The part where geda is falling behind in visibility, user base, developer base and as a consequence in quality. > The part where CERN found an open source app they liked, They did not seem to like any of the two candidates in the shape it is now. > or the part where they're going to contribute to OSS? CERN is well known for their contribution to open sourced software. cernlib, paw, root are all GPLed to name just the big ones. They have like 40 packages in debian attributed to them. And of course CERN people literally invented the world wide web and gave it to the world to share. They even make their linux distribution available to all (scientific linux) A common denominator of CERN developed software is the tendency to do things "right" in the first place. Less eye candy, more efficiency and elegant structure. Try root and you know what I mean. And they tend to have a long breath. IMHO, this CERN style would have been a good match for geda. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
Bert Timmerman wrote: >> Is there even a comprehensive list of plugins that are done >> at a single place? > > https://github.com/bert/pcb-plugins.git This URL gives me "404 This is not the web page you are looking for." :-| ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Another project finished with gEDA
Adrian Pardini wrote: > I'd > really like to thank you specially Kai for the effort you put into > your library, and also to everybody involved in gEDA development. Nice to see somebody else actually find my stuff useful. :-)) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
Today, I received an announcement from the CERN people. Key statement was: /- We had a meeting at CERN on Friday and decided we would start contributing to the Kicad project in view of taking it to a level of quality and features suitable for our PCB design activities. \- Reason given: /- (...) the feeling that Kicad looks more like what we have in mind for our future PCB work and that we feel more capable of making important contributions to it. \- sad. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: devices with different slots? How?
Josef Wolf wrote: > I am trying to create devices with different slots. For example, I'd like to > have a 7400 consist of four NAND slots and one POWER slot (pins 7+14). > Similarly, I'd like to split (for example) a 68332 into its modules (POWER, > CLOCK, TPU, QSPI, whatever). The slotting mechanism of gschem is useful for submodules with exactly the same function but different pins. This is the case for the four NAND portions of the component. Submoduls which differ by more than just pin numbers need a separate symbol file. Make sure, that all of the subsymbols receive the same refdes number in the schematic. This is the queue for gnetlist to treat them as one component. In my section of gedasymbols.org there is a 7400 symbol that does just that: The NANDs: http://gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/symbols/digital/7400_4xNAND.sym The power symbol: http://gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/symbols/digital/74_pwr.sym Good thing about the 74-series is, one power symbol can cater to many of them :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
Bob Paddock wrote: > Outside of our group here gEDA/PCB/Et.Al. are seen as toys and hard > to use. Maybe we should all asks ourselves why? Part of the reason may be seen on youtube. Yesterday, I was surprised to see a number of geda/PCB tutorials there. I watched only a few. All of them made schematic capture look difficult and an enduring task. It was not that the commentator directly sad so, but because there were so many steps involved before a result was visible. There were major misconceptions, too. E.g., one author insists, you have to be root to change symbols in the lib... Looks like, the lesson to be learned here is: Us power users should engage and write better tutorials and make them visible. Upload videos on youtube blog about it, write articles in Make Magazine, etc. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Strange user interface behavior with gschem-1.6.2.20110115
Josef Wolf wrote: > So this feature can save at most one click? It provides a means to reliably hit that tiny spot of a pin point, while zoomed out. The feature is "magnetic-mode". it is not "auto-complete". > At the expense of using the undo functionality fairly often? Well, I can't recall to have entered your szenario, ever. So I certainly do not use undo faily often, because of it. > In fact, I was trying to find a > way to draw the connection in question for several hours before I > posted to the list. For the archive: The "correct" way is to provide one or more additional node with a click somewhere on the empty canvas. If gschem insists on a poin, where you don't want the net to go (hinted by the circle), then hold the [ctrl] key and the circle will always stay with the mouse cursor. > IMHO, this works against user expectation. After all, the whole point > of the circle is to signal the user where the connection would be > done. Connecting to anything other is not exactly what the user would > expect. Fair enough. > From the perspective of the user it is totally irrelevant > what algorithm is used internally. But it is relevant to know, what this mode is intended for -- magnetic- mode, not auto-complete. I am sure, you got the point now :-) >> (Auto routing for nets would be a great, nerdy feature :-) > > I tend to disagree here. It works against user expectation. It > _would_ be a useful feature _if_ it would be disabled automatically > in situations where it would connect to something different than the > point where the circle is shown. IMHO, silent denial of service would make matters worse. It would create a sense of uneasiness and loss of control -- "sometimes, the tool works, sometimes it goes on strike...". A pop-up warning would be the better choice. Text might be something along the lines "Could not connect with a straight L" ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
DJ Delorie wrote: > >> If additional filtering is desired: One of the "core developers" > > Again, we just don't have enough "core developers" to add any burden > to them. We need options that *reduce* the load on developers, to > encourage more participation. See the "if" in my sentence. Core developers are only required if _additional_ filtering is desired. >> This wouldn't neceessarily have to be a developer. He or she just >> has to be familiar with git and the build tools in general. > > If they have commit access to the master git, they need to be a > developer. That's kind of our definition of "developer" - you need > to know enough about what's going on, to make smart choices about > which patches to pull. All of them that have been commited by developers to the test repo and have not been seen to break anything for a reasonable amount of testing time. The patch-maintainer does not have to cherry pick anything. He does not have to review code, either. Just read the bug reports and what devs respond. In other words: He automatically commits to git-head unless a patch had been singled out as the cause of trouble. Of course, changes may depend on each other. Then patches will be held back until the blocking feature is ready for prime time. >From the viewpoint of decision making, this is the same situation as now. The developer is responsible for what he commits. Period. Only difference is that he commits to git-test rather than to git-head. > As I said before, that's our procedure - git head *is* our testing > repo. It is "unstable" in the debian sense. What I am asking for, is a repo that is already tested but not as dated as the current releases tend to be. Or more specifically: A repo that contains all patches and features that have been shown to work. >> A fixed calendar would help. I'd say two months of patching followed >> by a month of freeze would be fine. > > A fixed calendar won't work as we don't have dedicated developers. > Our roadmap is to decide on a minimum set of features and bugfixes we > want in the next release, I am not talking about fixed calendar for a release. The calendar is about the internal organization of the testing-to-head-conversion. Note, this is the szenario without the patch-maintainer. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
DJ Delorie wrote: >> If you want real world testing, provide an environment with proper >> fall back options. > > The fall back option is to use a release. It won't be an option once file format changes kick in. >> Debian even has four stages (experimental, unstable, testing and >> stable). > > Debian has a huge development community. In 2005 Debian had 1200 maintainers for 8400 packages. That is, on avarage every maintainer handles 6.3 packages. This includes screening of bug reports push of new versions and maintainance of the build scripts. Seen from that perspective, the maintainer community of debian is not that large. > The reality is, stuff breaks for all sorts of reasons. If you expect > otherwise, you're not going to be happy unless you stick with > official releases. Sigh. I thought I made it clear, that I don't expect guaranteed unbroken applications when testing. After all, the whole point of testing is to find things that are broken. So please stop suggesting otherwise. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 03:21:25AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: >> Proposal to tone down the impact of patches breaking important features: >> >>Add a branch "test" to git. This branch would work pretty much like >>sid/unstable repo of debian. It would receive all the new stuff so >>advanced users like me can give them a test run. >>If a patch stands the test by same time, it will be applied to git-head. >> > > My thoughts on this: > > This sounds like a good idea, but depends on developer availability > (who will move features from testing to master?) If additional filtering is desired: One of the "core developers" Else, whoever commited the patch in the first place. Or someone who takes the job as his/her task in the project. This wouldn't neceessarily have to be a developer. He or she just has to be familiar with git and the build tools in general. The difficult task is to determine, when a patch has seen enough testing. But then again -- Currently, most patches are applied directly to git-head with no intermediate test repo. At worst, a premature application by the "patch-master" would yield the same situation as we have now. > , and would probably end up being of limited usefulness. A transition like debian/testing to debian/stable would remove the necessity to move single patches. There would be a freeze period, during whitch only bug fixes but no new features are applied to the test-repo. Then the test repo is moved wholesale to git-head. This is sort of mini-release. A fixed calendar would help. I'd say two months of patching followed by a month of freeze would be fine. And again, the actual work of moving repo versions around does not necessarily have to be shouldered by devs. > My mil-to-nm changes and Peter C's rendering/cleanup changes have both > been so intrusive that any "minor" changes applied after-the-fact, would > simply not apply without those changes. So they would be stuck in testing > for as long as mil-to-nm is. This seems like no problem to me. It does not delay development in any way compared to the situation now. > So you might want to just checkout your own branch with this reverted, > and rebase any new changes against that: Sure, you can always go back in a git repo. But this needs informed bisection when the critical changes occured. Also, it requires the skill to work with git and build the application locally. A mini-release could be offered as a package ready to install on the servers. This might draw more users into the testing boat. --> More eyes, more bugs spotted, more quality. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
DJ Delorie wrote: > >> If this happens too often, I may have to quit using and testing the >> cutting edge version. After all, I still have to get my projects >> done. I guess, other users feel the same. > > This has always been the case. No reason not to change sub optimum habits. > If you want a stable reliable tool, use a released version, or stick If you want real world testing, provide an environment with proper fall back options. > with one checked-out version you know > works, or maintain your own bugfix branch. Git head is where > development happens, and when we're bringing in big changes, stuff > breaks. This is why other projects like KiCAD provide a dedicated testing repo. Debian even has four stages (experimental, unstable, testing and stable). By the way, stuff also breaks with small changes. See the first commits of the new layer selector. >>Add a branch "test" to git. > > We call this "remote repositories" like Peter's GL repo. This is only comparable, if there is just one such remote repo and if this repo is handled like Peter did. That is, frequent rebase to the main tree and in general a slow and steady progress. If any of these prerequisites is not met, the remote repository approach won't cut it. > I see no > need to have something else in the main repo that needs admin time > when we already have a working model for it. It is not working. See the mil-to-nm conversion. IIRC, Andrew had a test repo set up. Obviously, some quite severe issues had passed undetected. ---<)kaiamrtin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: "revert" vs "reload"
Richard Barlow wrote: >> On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 01:46 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: >> > With a number of recommended work-flows PCB and gschem do not >> > return to the last saved state. Instead, they update to the >> > current state of the source file. The gsch2pcb work-flow relies >> > on the ability to change the *.pcb file in the back of PCB. >> > Contrary to the meaning of the word "revert" the "revert" >> > action does not go back but forward. >> >> When the files that evince or gedit have open are changed, they pop up a >> bar across the top of the window with a reload button in it. Perhaps >> this is a solution that would fit in better. > > I've started implementing this[1] with a little help from the gedit > source. Nice! Hope to see it in the repo soon. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
Peter Clifton wrote: > There are also different DRC rules on certain objects on inner layers > for some fabs IIRC. And of course, DRC constraints depend on the thickness of the copper layer. This was a big deal with my big project a few weeks ago. Because the top contains fine pitch SMD components, it could not possibly comply with the rules for the inner layers with 105 µm copper. (Remember my failure to make ignore-DRC work?) In the end, I worked around it by scripted reduction of outer layer line thickness to 1/10 width. Then DRC the inner layers and finally blew up the lines on outer layers to their original width. So, yes, DRC rules should optionally depend on layers. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
Steven Michalske wrote: > +1 to bundling plugins with pcb sources.. +1 to merging plug-ins into the main project. There is no point in keeping useful features outside. The necessity to compile and keep distinct plugins for different versions of PCB is a pain. Also, they tend to bit-rot and break when the main source moves on. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universit?0?1t Hannover, Inst. f??r Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: David Jones - EEVBlog on Open Hardware
Peter Clifton wrote: > gEDA and KiCAD get a mention ;) > > http://www.eevblog.com/2011/08/12/eevblog-195-open-source-hardware-explained/ About what point in time? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: test repo
For the last two (three?) years I used and tested Peters pcb+GL branch of PCB because it provided the joy of speed and transparency. If Peter would screw his version, which he rarely did, I could fall back to git-head from gpleda.org . Fall back to the last relased version of PCB would have been not so nice, because of the long release cycle. After openGL was finally included in git-head, I switched to this repo for my daily work. I was delighted to see the mil-to-nm upgrade. There were a few show stoppers. Most of them got rectified. quickly. But big text is still broken. This means, I need to fall back to some older version at least for gerber export. This kind of brokenness will probably happen more often when big changes to the GUI to the layer infrastructure and/or the file system will hit git head. If this happens too often, I may have to quit using and testing the cutting edge version. After all, I still have to get my projects done. I guess, other users feel the same. Proposal to tone down the impact of patches breaking important features: Add a branch "test" to git. This branch would work pretty much like sid/unstable repo of debian. It would receive all the new stuff so advanced users like me can give them a test run. If a patch stands the test by same time, it will be applied to git-head. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Strange user interface behavior with gschem-1.6.2.20110115
Josef Wolf wrote: > In the attached schmatic, when I try to draw a net from U6-pin27 to > the gate of Q6, a little circle appears on the nearest pin, > indicating where the connection would be "autocompleted" to. But even > if the circle appears at the gate of Q6, at the moment I click to > make the connection, it jumps to the gate of Q4, effectively > shortening pin1 with pin28 of U6. The autocompletion does not avoid other net leines like an auto router would. It just acts like gschem would if you clicked the marked point manually. In this case, it starts a net line at pin 26, draws to the right until it is below the sensitive point of the gate of Q6. Then it would continue to draw teh net vertically up to the gate. But wait! There is already a net at the corner of this net -- the net that connects pin 28 with the gate of Q4. A general rule for nets in gschem is: "If the endpoint of a segment hits another net, these two will be connected." So the line starting from pin 26 happily connects to the line starting at pin 28. > I have not seen such behavior before. In fact, I have not seen such > an autocompletion-circle before. Is this some new functionality? Fairly new. It has been in git-head some time. Rleases intervalls are qite large with geda. > Is > there a way to deactivate it? Or at least configure it to behave in a > sane way? IMHO, it already behaves in a sane way. You just have to realize, that it is not an autorouter, but a mouse click prediction facility. (Auto routing for nets would be a great, nerdy feature :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Tearoffs on popup menu in pcb?
Peter Clifton wrote: > Have you ever tried the mode "Preferences"->"Alternate window layout > to allow smaller vertical size"? yes :-) > That mode moves the tool buttons underneath the menu-bar in a row, > perhaps that is closer to what you were looking for. It is linear, but it is coupled with disadvantages. This style increases the width of the top bar. So it actually uses more screen estate than the default layout (except for monitors with very low resolution). There is a usability downside, too. It spreads the most important controls for manual routing over a larger area. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
John Griessen wrote: > Does the category low end bother you? > It is at the low end of the price tag scale :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
Peter Clifton wrote: > Throwing out a crazy idea.. in word-processors etc.., "styles" are > found in a drop-down combo-box. I know that doesn't fit so well with > where we have space for the route-style selector, but just a crazy > though. In my humble opinon, the space would be used better by an expanded tool box. Packing tools in three columns is just awful from a usability point of view. Better put them in a Single, linear list. Also, there will certainly be more fancy tools to come in the future: E.g. shove, multi-track to draw busses in one sweep, blind via, multi copy (produce a grid of objects with one action), copy-rotate, ... Plus, there is the potentially space hungry layer list. With tis in mind, the drop-down list for route styles looks like a good idea. The drop-down list can easily adjust for user configured additional styles, too. Bonus points to allow the list be ripped off and placed on the other monitor. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb gtk: Toggle buttons for route styles?
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Can we use toggle buttons instead of radio buttons for the > route style selector? It would look like so: > > http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/toggle.png > > This gives more clickable area and a cleaner look, I think. The look is still inconsistent. The buttons are centered. By contrast, the tool box and the layer lines are flush-left. I'd prefer a more radical change: 1) Make the route styles as user configurable as the layers. That is, allow to add odr delete styles, change the order they appear in the GUI, 2) Attach accel-keys to route styles. I know, we are running out of accels. But this is an important omission in the current GUI. Changing route styles is a very frequent action while manual routing. How about [ctrl-F1], ... [ctrl-F12]? 3) Add a little preview to the left of the route style name, that indicates the width of the tracks. Actual width in the preview may be calculated relative to the other route styles. 4) Get rid of the "Route Style" button. Its meaning depends on the currently selected route style. This is very non-standard and newbie unfriendly. Proposal: Move its function to right-mouse click on every style button. Ideally, this would be complimented by a config page in prefernces in case a user can't do right-clicks (e.g. mac users). This would also be the place to change order config accel keys or add more route styles. Side effect: More space in the right sidebar :-) To fully implement these proposals, changes in the internals of pcb are required. But at least, a GUI-only redesign should not conflict such ideas. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting question
Dave McGuire wrote: > Thank you for your > assistance, and I apologize for the distraction. No worries. You are not the first to see ghosts when looking in the wrong direction... ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to find which specific part of a PCB is shorted?
Thomas Oldbury wrote: > I am getting these messages: > > Warning! Net "3V3plus" is shorted to net "GND" > Warning! Net "GND" is shorted to net "3V3plus" > > The 3.3V bus is used all over the board. How can I locate > specifically which part is shorted? This is what I do: 1) open the net list window 2) click on one of the offending nets. The right side of the netlist window will show all the pads and pins that are connected to this net. 3) double click a pin or pad. On the canvas, the cursor warps to the pin. 4) move the mouse slightly 5) zoom in 6) type [f] while te mouse hovers over the pin or pad 7) follow the highlighted path to see, where it goes off-road. Step 4 and 5 are really only necessary, if the pin count is fairly large. If the offending connection is to ground, like in your case, and there is a ground plane, then there may be find color all over the place. So, there is no visible path to follow. In that case, I put the polygons into their own layers with their own, private layer group. They are not considered connected anymore If everything else fails, I resort to plain old bisection: Remove the right half of the layout and check, whether the short goes away. Repeat, until you spot the problem. Then revert to the complete layout. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gedasymbols.org down?
Russell Dill wrote: > I imagine I'm not the only one running a git mirror of > gedasymbols.org. If you rely on gedasymbols.org in any way, It'd be > wise to do the same. Is there a way to propagate changes in the git repo to DJs cvs? (short of running cvs commit in a cron job) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:47:33PM -0700, Colin D Bennett wrote: >> A more general solution, and one that won't affect the accurate >> representation of the layer color by the swatch, is to draw a 1 or 2 >> pixel wide border around the swatch when the mouse hovers over that >> layer button. >> > > I tried this at home. It seemed to draw too much attention to the > swatch, and indicate "toggle me!" rather than "prelight". It says "you can do something here", just like the items in a menu, the mm/mil button, the tools buttons, the route styles and the scroll bars do. > IMHO, if > we do anything to indicate prelighting, it should be (at least) as > subtle as my color change. Whether this highlighting is subtle or a glaring contrast depends on the users GTK theme. I have seen both among the most downloaded themes at gnome-look.org. This is a basically a user decision, not something, the developers should care about. > And I am not entirely sold that we should be doing anything. Every item, that can be clicked should be highlighted on mouse-over. Only items that cannot be clicked or dragged should stay silent. Surely, the gnome HIG says something along these lines. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Colin D Bennett wrote: > A more general solution, and one that won't affect the accurate > representation of the layer color by the swatch, is to draw a 1 or 2 > pixel wide border around the swatch when the mouse hovers over that > layer button. +1 and use gtk selection color for the frame. Or alternatively, draw the frame in layer color. This would increase the size of the square. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: essential library -- plaese comment.
?? wrote: > Oh, I am sorry. I just tried to say the links are wrong, that is they > don't point to appropriate footprints. > If I didn't introduce new errors, they should be fine now. Thanks again for checking! Any comments on the symbols themselves? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: essential library -- please comment.
DJ Delorie wrote: > Note that the links give you the *wrong* symbol though. The link > doesn't match the visible text. > Ah! I totally missed that. It chould be correct now (including all the other links Vladimir found on my main page -- Thanks for checking, again). These copy-paste errors tend to stay unnoticed for years because I don't use the gedasymbols HTML-page myself. Lesson to be learned: This kind of page really should be created from the actual library by a script. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Two more issues: * A left-mouse-click on the square toggles the visibility of the whole layer group on the canvas. But it toggles only the visual state of this layer, not the state of the squares that correspond to the other layers in the group. As a result, the state of the squaere is not necessarily in unison with the visibility of the layers on the canvas. * Load of a colour theme does not immediately update the colours. The layers in the layout receive the new colours only, after their visibilty is toggled. The squares in the layer selector only receive the new colours after restart of the application. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > One close thing I could do is set the "hover-selection" property, > which would actually select the item the mouse is on. This would > be a nightmare, I imagine, for people who bat their mice haphazardly > to the left to get their cursor out of the way. You mean, mouse-over triggers the same events like left-mouse-click? This would indeed be a nightmare. > Another, more sensible thing I can do is to change the rendering > of the color swatch when the mouse is on the row. Can you think > of a good "highlighted" cue that only affects the swatch? How about a change to the frame? For example, make it thicker and GTK highlight color. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: Modifier keys for moving?
Vladimir Zhbanov wrote: >> My distro is debian/testing, aka squeeze. The libgtk2 packages are mostly >> version 2.24.4-3 . Is this "old"? > > Testing is wheezy, squeeze got stable already in February (AFAIR). > Ouups. You are right. I still have to get used to say "wheezy"... ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: essential library -- plaese comment.
Vladimir Zhbanov wrote: > Some links at > > http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/essential.html > seem to be broken: >href="http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/symbols/titleblock/in.sym";>out.sym >href="http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/symbols/discrete/cap_vert.sym";>cap.sym >href="http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/symbols/discrete/igbt.sym";>res.sym >href="http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/footprints/discrete/LED_3mm.fp";> > LED_5mm.fp They work for me. Maybe, this was still the impact of DJs server coming down during the storm. > > There are such errors at your main page, too > (http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/). Check the links: Most of these links are working, too. But there were some, that did not -- I corrected them. These were mostly typos when preparing the HTML pages. I should really come up with some automated system that precludes this kind of error. Thank you for checking! ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > As a reminder, the layer keyboard accelerators are: > > 1-9 Select layers 1-9 > 0 Select layer 10 > Alt+1-9 Select layers 11-19 > Alt+0 Select layer 20 > I added these to the list of keystrokes in the wiki: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb-quick_reference?&#layers ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > - tearoffs on the right-click menu > By the way -- Why is this menu on [shift-RightClick] ? Are there any plans for plain right click? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > User-visible changes are: Another minor wish: Can you change the background of the layer chooser to the background color gtk uses for the rest of the controls? (menu, status line, mm/mil button, route styles) Currently, it seems to be the background of input items. But of course, you can't input anything there. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
Forget about my last message on the X-windows error. (*) I just rebooted and pcb runs fine now. Must have been some funky mix of recent updates in the X-windows libs on my system. The new layer selector is beautiful! I like the way the suares indicate laxyer visibility. The fact Some glitches: I don't see any visual feedback which item the mouse cursor currently refers to. Gnome user expectation seems to be, that the item should be highlighted with background changing to focus color. Much the same way that the items in a menu highlight on mouse-over. Currently, I get focus color only after I clicked a layer. Layers can be selected with middle mouse button, too. Is this deliberate? The old layer chooser did not respond to middle mouse button click at all. IMHO, middle mouse should stay reserved for some funky functions yet to be designed (e.g. make the layer temporarily visible while the button is pressed) ---<)kaimartin(>--- (*) Sorry, I can't reply to myself, because my message has not yet made it to the list. Judging from experience This will probably take some hours or days) -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gtk menu system
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Poelstra wrote: > I have pushed the new menu system to git head. I just recloned and compiled. The resulting binary gives me the rope: / The program 'pcb' received an X Window System error. This probably reflects a bug in the program. The error was 'BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)'. (Details: serial 129 error_code 1 request_code 136 minor_code 19) (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously; that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it. To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.) \ - ---<)kaimartin(>--- - -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk5dDf8ACgkQZ+Hj7ZLnhr9uxACfUOLawacgIbFkqpsZrBLdd62g iaIAn10YwueT89ZDx2sZCA/kxyvu+inu =2RPO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Tearoffs on popup menu in pcb?
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Hash: SHA1
DJ Delorie wrote:
> I.e. if you right-click on an element, you should get a menu specific
> to that element, like "select" to select *that* element, "rotate" to
> rotate *that* element, etc. Such an operation makes no sense if the
> popup is torn off and placed elsewhere.
Currently, only one out of five first level items is context sensitive
the way you say ("Operations on this location"). The rest is actions that
do not refer to the position of the mouse cursor ("Operations on selections",
"Undo last operation", Redo last operation", "Tools").
Unless I missed something, the "Operations on this location" contains
just a single item: "Generate object report"
If the menu is ripped off, "Generate object report" might ask the user
to click somewhere on the canvas. This what "Cut selection to buffer"
does, when chosen from the regular menu.
BTW: What are Tools->None and Tools->Cancel supposed to do?
- ---<)kaimartin(>---
- --
Kai-Martin Knaak
Email: k...@familieknaak.de
http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53
increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user
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Re: gEDA-user: gedasymbols.org down?
Peter Clifton wrote: > Yes - I got a message from DJ saying it has knocked his power and > internet down. (The server lives in DJ's basement). > Time for a mirror server on a different continent? I got used to rely on the presence of gedasymbols.org. I use it as a hinge to distribute my geda lib to my various desktops. And of course lately for work on the essential lib. Git would be handy in this situation. With git everyone would have all information locally, including history and branches. We could just set up an interim repository and update the on at DJ when it is up again. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: "revert" vs "reload"
Peter Clifton wrote: > Picking GIMP and gedit as examples of popular, well written > applications, they both use "Revert". However, gimp is unlikely to be used like we do with *.sch and *.pcb files. That is, use third party tools to manipulate them and reload the result to the GUI. gedit solves the situation differently: It detects when the source file is changed. It then presents a modal dialog that asks whether, or not to reload. So the user will never have to use "revert" to update the text shown in the canvas of gedit. Would it be hard to implement this for PCB? > This is specified in the HIG: > > http://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.0/menus-standard.html.en > Not quite. The description to the revert item reads: "Reverts the document to the last saved state. Present the user with a warning that all changes will be lost, and offer the option of cancelling before reloading the file." With a number of recommended work-flows PCB and gschem do not return to the last saved state. Instead, they update to the current state of the source file. The gsch2pcb work-flow relies on the ability to change the *.pcb file in the back of PCB. Contrary to the meaning of the word "revert" the "revert" action does not go back but forward. Seen from that angle, my complaint with the current "revert" is that it does not conform to the gnome HIG. > So my preference is that we stick with "Revert" here. Ok, I won't prepare patches. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: essential library -- please comment.
Colin D Bennett wrote: > First, I'll say that I am an advocate of lightweight symbols, and I > want to draw my schematic once, not having to delete and re-add > symbols when I decide to change a resistor from 0805 to 0603 > footprint; Hmm, heavy symbols don't force you to do that. Footprint attributes are promoted by default. So you can double click the symbol and change the value of the footprint attribute. Footprints in the essential lib are visible, too. They can be clicked and changed directly. If all components are to be changed, this gets tedious. Unfortunately, there is no search&replace available in gschem. But you can do: sed -i s/footprint=0805/footprint=0603/ foobar.sch Any other text editor will of course also do. The helper application gattrib needs a bit more interaction. But it is still much more convenient than re-adding symbols. And then there is DJs CSV scripts. I heard, they mix quite nicely with makefiles. > or when I change a 2 row, 6 contact connector to a > single-row 6-contact connector; or most significantly when I change a > SOT-23 (3-lead SMT) transistor to a 4-lead package including a tab; Same as above, if pin names of the footprints are compatible. If they don't match, light symbols would create a hard time, too. I seem to have missed something important in your argument. > If gschem could > present the user with the list of possible footprints, then this > would be a decent way for new users to get started and would give > good flexibility too. In a way, it already does. The list of footprints is shown as inherited attribute in the attribute editor dialog. Unfortunately, these items cannot be selected for copy/paste. But you can read the list and type in the desired value at the footprint attribute. This is not only for newbies. Advances users like me, who still don't know all their footprints by heart may find a preselected list helpful. You are right, gschem presenting the list as options to choose from, would be the next step. In my dreams, this would be complemented with a preview and a way to select from the footprint library. This would mean, PCB is run as aservice to gschem -- heaven forbid! ;-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: Modifier keys for moving?
Colin D Bennett wrote: > Are you running an old version of GTK? My distro is debian/testing, aka squeeze. The libgtk2 packages are mostly version 2.24.4-3 . Is this "old"? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: path variable to $HOME/.gEDA
Vladimir Zhbanov wrote: > I just use: > (load "print-colormap-mycolors") > in local gschemrc file, where 'print-colormap-mycolors' is the name > of a file which lives in the same directory as the gschemrc. I > suspect it will work in other environments, too. Oh, this is a delightfully simple solution. :-) ---<)kaiamrtin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: "revert" vs "reload"
I like doing tricks with scripts or with the text editor. Some features of gschem are not even accesssible via the GUI. The revert action in the file to propagate the changes to the GUI. menu. However, under these circumstances this is not a revert in the original meaning of the term. Proposal: Rename the menu item "revert" to the more neutral "reload". This applies to both, PCB and gschem. Would this be appreciated? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gedasymbols.org down?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Seems like I can't ping to gedasymbols.org since last night. Is the server located in an area affected by the Irene storm? This is unfortunate, because I wanted to discuss the way I do the essential library. Why do server trouble always happen when you need them the most ;-| - ---<)kaimartin(>--- - -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - -> increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk5bqLcACgkQZ+Hj7ZLnhr/f5wCbByopvmnAovwisphOegN8PAoO jaUAn3+0xIgnaUGdY5isUxPGPEZEw67i =yCc3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: essential library -- plaese comment.
Hi. Like promised during the last big library discussion, I started to assemble a library that is designed to be useful for first time users. It should allow to build simple projects and demonstrate good practice. This of course implies heavy symbols. In fact, I made them super heavy by adding an attribute with a comma separated list of footprints. So dear light library lovers: This is explicitly not for you ;-) You can find the lib in my section of gedasymbols at http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/essential.html The description should be self explaining. If it isn't, please give me a hint and I'll try to improve. Please scan the symbols and footprints. The collection still has some glaring holes in it. For example, there is nothing digital and no connectors, yet. But should be enough to get the idea. Tell me, if you think, the concept is viable -- It might prevent me from running into a don't-like-wall. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Tearoffs on popup menu in pcb?
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Right now in pcb if you shift-right-click on the main viewport, > you get a popup menu with a few submenus. There are no tearoffs. > > Do you want tearoffs on the submenus of this popup? A rip-off means on the fly intuitive user modification to the GUI. This is always a good thing. It would be even better, if the GUI remembered the state of the rip-off across sessions. > What about on the popup itself? I hardly use this popup. It is no much speed improvement compared to plain menu items. Also, it does not include the settings, which is one of the most frequently used menu actions for me. The list of tools reminds me of the pecularity of the main tool button area. Its 3x4-1 placement is quite un-ergonomic. The group of tools does not lend itself to any natural order. When an item is added, many buttons change position. What was on the bottom right might end up in the bottom left, etc. We had this recently, when the hole tool was added. This caused me to do quite a number of mis-clicks. BTW, what are the "none" and "cancel" tools for? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: path variable to $HOME/.gEDA
As a fallout of a certain bug report, I'd like to have my own version of gschem-colormap-lightbg installed locally in my home dir. Seems like this line in gschemrc kind of works: (load "/home/kmk/.gEDA/gschem-colormap-lightbg") The absolute path works. But I'd like to do it in a way that also works in other environments with different user names and different paths to the home dir. Is there a guile variable for the path where gschem looks for the user config? And related: To make a project completely self contained, I put gschemrc in the project dir. To load a project specific color file I'd need a scheme variable for the project dir. Is there any? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Updating gtk menu dynamically?
> But getting the accelerators hooked up is proving to be a trial. > GtkActionGroup apparently -only- works with GtkUIManager, so > without it, setting up accelerators, their paths, their callbacks > and their menu items is up to us. While at it, can you implement gnomes convenient on-the-fly user modification of accel keys? (put the mouse on a menu item and type whatever accel you want to assign) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting question
Dave McGuire wrote: > Here's the procedure: > >- start gschem (v1.6.2.20110115) >- open library, select symbol "74-series logic/7404-1" >- place two instances on sheet <..snip..> >- load file "test.sch" >- note two inverter instances replaced with entire-package symbols I still get the correct result. A stab in the dark: Maybe you have a copy of 7404-1.sym somewhere on your hardware that actually is a 7404-3.sym in disguise. This disguised symbol file may be found first, on start-up of gschem. You can test this hypothesis by not setting the slotting at all and just save to text.sch . In addition you can use the "locate" command to locate all symbol files called "7404-1.sym" on your hard disk. HTH, ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: Modifier keys for moving?
Abhijit Kshirsagar wrote: > Actually, with respect to the rubber-band mode (both in PCB and gschem, as a > matter of fact) I have no clue whether the mode is 'on' or 'off'. I can only > test the behaviour by doing something and/or toggling from the menu. > > Am I missing something here or is this normal? In PCB I habitually rip off the settings menu and put it somewhere right of the canvas. This menu shows checkmarks for active options. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem vs. PCB diode pin numbering
Kovacs Levente wrote: > On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:21:17 -0400 > Ethan Swint wrote: > >> I've defined my own symbols and footprints to use 'A' and 'K' instead >> of 1 and 2. > > I don't think it's a good idea. Why not? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to do PCB Autorouting with non-plated holes
Colin D Bennett wrote: > Well, you could do the heavy lifting with an awk script: >> >> If the current line is a pin, >> set the diameter of the pin to zero and add a hole flag >> ouput a round pad with the diameter of the pins annular ring >> else, >> output the current line unchanged. > > Could you do this on the layout (.pcb file) after all elements are > placed so he would not even need to create new footprint files? I answered yesterday (*), that it would be tricky to make sure the conversion happens only once if you apply the script more than once. Actually, there is an easy solution: Only do the conversion if the pin in question has non-zero pin width. ---<)kaimartin(>--- (*) Which didn't hit the list, yet. -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to do PCB Autorouting with non-plated holes
Colin D Bennett wrote: >> Well, you could do the heavy lifting with an awk script: >> >> If the current line is a pin, >> set the diameter of the pin to zero and add a hole flag >> ouput a round pad with the diameter of the pins annular ring >> else, >> output the current line unchanged. > > Could you do this on the layout (.pcb file) after all elements are > placed so he would not even need to create new footprint files? Sure. It would get a little nasty though, if you require the script to ignore the already converted pins. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: canvas of openGL enabled PCB temporarily goes confetti
Peter Clifton wrote: > Thanks for the screen-shot. I can't reproduce it here on Intel HW. Does > it happen for any other GL applications, such as glxgears? No. glxgears adjusts its size just fine. etuxracer flickers but does not show the confetty syndrome. glest does not allow resize in the first place. gliv resizes images impressively fast with no apparent glitch at all. <)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Foss-pcb Proposed plan from CERN
Peter Clifton wrote: > For converting "legacy" designs, an import from gerber might be more > generally useful to our user base, and doesn't require decyphering > unknown file formats. Admittedly this looses footprint information, but > perhaps that isn't always an issue. Sometimes I would like to import eagle designs done at other intitutes. In that case I need full access to schematic and footprints. A gerber import would not do the trick. > >> How far did you advance on this road? > > Unpacking the container format, separating out individual footprints > from a library, identifying most of the binary record types within those > footprints. It would take time and examples to verify we can know the > meaning of each field in the format, but that is only a time + effort > job. Cool. Any chance, you can fan out part of the job to volunteeers? > I'll get hold of the guys I was working for and see if I can make a > preliminary release of the findings made. (This was all done in the > support of gEDA anyway). What was the plan for the final product? Any license strings attached, that would prevent distribution by super correct distros like Debian? ---<)kaimartin(>--- >> PS: Why did none of my todays posts hit the list, yet? (While others seem >> to have no problem to get through within minutes) Any answers to this one? -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de -> not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
