Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-02 20:51:04 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text" in the attributes menu. But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the same menu? Typically, I need to look at footprints during design. Hide them for beauty is at a later stage. So I like to have them visible by default. Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't care what people do with the symbols anyway? To the law there is nothing like "no license" in a literal sense. By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but I didn't find much. (...) Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn everything about this? see http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec This page links to all the "official" documentation: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:documentation ---<)kaimartin(>--- Thanks for the very useful interesting links. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: >> Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance >> in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the >> value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible >> by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in >> finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text" >> in the attributes menu. > > But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the > same menu? Typically, I need to look at footprints during design. Hide them for beauty is at a later stage. So I like to have them visible by default. > Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't > care what people do with the symbols anyway? To the law there is nothing like "no license" in a literal sense. > By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but > I didn't find much. (...) > Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn > everything about this? > see http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec This page links to all the "official" documentation: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:documentation ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Jan 2, 2011, at 11:12 AM, "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote:
> Den 2011-01-02 13:13:55 skrev kai-martin knaak :
>
>> Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very
>>> unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should
>>> remove them entirely.
>>
>> License lines are a necessity for sharing. Else, you'd have to
>> put some license information in the environment of the share.
>>
* the footprint attribute is invisible
>>>
>>> Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible?
>>
>> Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance
>> in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the
>> value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible
>> by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in
>> finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text"
>> in the attributes menu.
>
> But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the
> same menu?
>
>> In addition, the footprint provides a
>> hint what to look for in the layout when I read the schematic.
>> Else, a SO23 transistor looks the same in the schematic as a
>> TO247 with cooler.
>>
>>
>>> 200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin,
>>> which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol
>>> either, though.
>>
>> "200" was just a typo by me...
>> Somewhere in the documentation pin length 300 is recommended. However,
>> nobody could give a reason for this value when I asked on this list.
>> Since pins cannot be differentiated in print from nets, I decided to
>> opt for short pins in my symbols. That is, 100 units, or sometimes even
>> zero.
>
> Well, I agree that short pins are better, I will change them in all the
> symbols.
>>
>>> If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your
>>> likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols
>>> accordingly?
>>>
>>
>> See below.
>
> Thanks.
>
>> Except for the license, the symbol would fit into my collection of
>> symbols in gedasymbols.org. I prefer the GPL as distribution license.
>
> Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't care
> what people do with the symbols anyway?
Mostly because in some countries authors rights are reserved, and must be
declined.
>
>> As John Doty already pointed out, there is no hard right or wrong
>> with many design decisions. I am, of course, biased :-)
>
> Well, I asked for suggestions and I got suggestions. So far so good. :)
>
> By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but I
> didn't find much. I would like to know what all the numbers mean, for example
> in lines like this:
> ”V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1”
>
> The four first is of course coordinates, and there seems to be numbers for
> thickness and colour, but I changed a few of them with no result at all as
> far as I could see. Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn
> everything about this?
>
>
>>
>> /
>> v 20100214 2
>> B 200 200 600 600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
>> T 500 500 9 20 1 0 0 4 1
>> &
>> T 400 4100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> device=7400
>> T 700 0 8 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> slot=1
>> T 400 2400 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> numslots=4
>> T 400 1600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> slotdef=1:1,2,3
>> T 400 1800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> slotdef=2:4,5,6
>> T 400 2000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> slotdef=3:9,10,8
>> T 400 2200 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> slotdef=4:12,13,11
>> V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
>> P 900 500 900 500 1 0 1
>> {
>> T 850 600 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
>> pinnumber=3
>> T 850 600 5 8 0 1 0 0 1
>> pinseq=3
>> T 750 500 9 8 0 1 0 7 1
>> pinlabel=Y
>> T 850 450 5 8 0 1 0 2 1
>> pintype=out
>> }
>> P 200 300 100 300 1 0 1
>> {
>> T 150 350 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
>> pinnumber=2
>> T 150 350 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
>> pinseq=2
>> T 250 300 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
>> pinlabel=B
>> T 150 250 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
>> pintype=in
>> }
>> P 200 700 100 700 1 0 1
>> {
>> T 150 750 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
>> pinnumber=1
>> T 150 750 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
>> pinseq=1
>> T 250 700 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
>> pinlabel=A
>> T 150 650 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
>> pintype=in
>> }
>> T 200 1100 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
>> refdes=U?
>> T 200 0 8 8 1 1 0 0 1
>> footprint=DIP14
>> T 400 3900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> description=4 NAND gates with 2 inputs
>> T 400 3700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> documentation=http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/sn74hc00.pdf
>> T 400 3100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> author=Johnny Rosenberg – johnny.a.rosenb...@gmail.com
>> T 400 2900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> dist-license=None – do whatever you want, I don't care
>> T 400 2700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> use-license=unlimited
>> T 200 900 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
>> value=7400
>> T 400 3500 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> comment=use 74_pwr.sym for supply
>> T 400 3300 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
>> comment=this symbol was designed according to IEC-(INSERT SPECIFIC NORM)
>> \
>>
>
> Thanks for all your inputs!
>
> --
> Kind regards
>
> Johnny Rosenberg
>
>
> __
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-02 13:13:55 skrev kai-martin knaak :
Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very
unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should
remove them entirely.
License lines are a necessity for sharing. Else, you'd have to
put some license information in the environment of the share.
* the footprint attribute is invisible
Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible?
Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance
in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the
value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible
by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in
finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text"
in the attributes menu.
But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the
same menu?
In addition, the footprint provides a
hint what to look for in the layout when I read the schematic.
Else, a SO23 transistor looks the same in the schematic as a
TO247 with cooler.
200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin,
which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol
either, though.
"200" was just a typo by me...
Somewhere in the documentation pin length 300 is recommended. However,
nobody could give a reason for this value when I asked on this list.
Since pins cannot be differentiated in print from nets, I decided to
opt for short pins in my symbols. That is, 100 units, or sometimes even
zero.
Well, I agree that short pins are better, I will change them in all the
symbols.
If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your
likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols
accordingly?
See below.
Thanks.
Except for the license, the symbol would fit into my collection of
symbols in gedasymbols.org. I prefer the GPL as distribution license.
Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't
care what people do with the symbols anyway?
As John Doty already pointed out, there is no hard right or wrong
with many design decisions. I am, of course, biased :-)
Well, I asked for suggestions and I got suggestions. So far so good. :)
By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but
I didn't find much. I would like to know what all the numbers mean, for
example in lines like this:
”V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1”
The four first is of course coordinates, and there seems to be numbers for
thickness and colour, but I changed a few of them with no result at all as
far as I could see. Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn
everything about this?
/
v 20100214 2
B 200 200 600 600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
T 500 500 9 20 1 0 0 4 1
&
T 400 4100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
device=7400
T 700 0 8 8 0 0 0 0 1
slot=1
T 400 2400 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
numslots=4
T 400 1600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=1:1,2,3
T 400 1800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=2:4,5,6
T 400 2000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=3:9,10,8
T 400 2200 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=4:12,13,11
V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
P 900 500 900 500 1 0 1
{
T 850 600 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=3
T 850 600 5 8 0 1 0 0 1
pinseq=3
T 750 500 9 8 0 1 0 7 1
pinlabel=Y
T 850 450 5 8 0 1 0 2 1
pintype=out
}
P 200 300 100 300 1 0 1
{
T 150 350 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=2
T 150 350 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=2
T 250 300 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=B
T 150 250 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
P 200 700 100 700 1 0 1
{
T 150 750 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=1
T 150 750 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=1
T 250 700 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=A
T 150 650 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
T 200 1100 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
refdes=U?
T 200 0 8 8 1 1 0 0 1
footprint=DIP14
T 400 3900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
description=4 NAND gates with 2 inputs
T 400 3700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
documentation=http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/sn74hc00.pdf
T 400 3100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
author=Johnny Rosenberg – johnny.a.rosenb...@gmail.com
T 400 2900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
dist-license=None – do whatever you want, I don't care
T 400 2700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
use-license=unlimited
T 200 900 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
value=7400
T 400 3500 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=use 74_pwr.sym for supply
T 400 3300 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=this symbol was designed according to IEC-(INSERT SPECIFIC NORM)
\
Thanks for all your inputs!
--
Kind regards
Johnny Rosenberg
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Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
> I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very
> unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should
> remove them entirely.
License lines are a necessity for sharing. Else, you'd have to
put some license information in the environment of the share.
>> * the footprint attribute is invisible
>
> Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible?
Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance
in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the
value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible
by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in
finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text"
in the attributes menu. In addition, the footprint provides a
hint what to look for in the layout when I read the schematic.
Else, a SO23 transistor looks the same in the schematic as a
TO247 with cooler.
> 200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin,
> which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol
> either, though.
"200" was just a typo by me...
Somewhere in the documentation pin length 300 is recommended. However,
nobody could give a reason for this value when I asked on this list.
Since pins cannot be differentiated in print from nets, I decided to
opt for short pins in my symbols. That is, 100 units, or sometimes even
zero.
> If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your
> likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols
> accordingly?
>
See below.
Except for the license, the symbol would fit into my collection of
symbols in gedasymbols.org. I prefer the GPL as distribution license.
As John Doty already pointed out, there is no hard right or wrong
with many design decisions. I am, of course, biased :-)
/
v 20100214 2
B 200 200 600 600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
T 500 500 9 20 1 0 0 4 1
&
T 400 4100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
device=7400
T 700 0 8 8 0 0 0 0 1
slot=1
T 400 2400 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
numslots=4
T 400 1600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=1:1,2,3
T 400 1800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=2:4,5,6
T 400 2000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=3:9,10,8
T 400 2200 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=4:12,13,11
V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
P 900 500 900 500 1 0 1
{
T 850 600 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=3
T 850 600 5 8 0 1 0 0 1
pinseq=3
T 750 500 9 8 0 1 0 7 1
pinlabel=Y
T 850 450 5 8 0 1 0 2 1
pintype=out
}
P 200 300 100 300 1 0 1
{
T 150 350 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=2
T 150 350 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=2
T 250 300 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=B
T 150 250 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
P 200 700 100 700 1 0 1
{
T 150 750 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=1
T 150 750 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=1
T 250 700 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=A
T 150 650 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
T 200 1100 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
refdes=U?
T 200 0 8 8 1 1 0 0 1
footprint=DIP14
T 400 3900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
description=4 NAND gates with 2 inputs
T 400 3700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
documentation=http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/sn74hc00.pdf
T 400 3100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
author=Johnny Rosenberg – johnny.a.rosenb...@gmail.com
T 400 2900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
dist-license=None – do whatever you want, I don't care
T 400 2700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
use-license=unlimited
T 200 900 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
value=7400
T 400 3500 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=use 74_pwr.sym for supply
T 400 3300 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=this symbol was designed according to IEC-(INSERT SPECIFIC NORM)
\
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53
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Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Jan 1, 2011, at 1:24 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > Den 2011-01-01 18:42:49 skrev kai-martin knaak : > >> Johnny Rosenberg wrote: >> >>> here's a >>> new try, which I tested several times: >>> >>> http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ >> >> I just looked at 7400-IEC-1.sym. Some comments: >> >> * some lines of invisible text is not on 100 grid. > > I took a look myself and you're right. I didn't make those though, since I > just modified an existing gate, so I guess they are not on ”100 grid” in the > original symbol files either, but I didn't check that yet. > I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very unnecessary (?) > author- and license lines. I guess I should remove them entirely. You should have them if you intend to publish on gedasymbols. > >> >> * the footprint attribute is invisible > > Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible? Matter of style. Kai-Martin has his, others have theirs. I prefer the footprint invisible so it doesn't clutter the schematic. If I want to know the footprint, I look in the BOM. >> >> * pin labels are invisible Another matter of style, when the symbol itself is sufficient to deduce function. >> >> * if pin labels were visible, they'd collide with the box But they are invisible. >> >> * pin length is 200 units. IMHO, these lengthy pins result in >> awkward artwork, when there is little space on the canvas. This >> is of course a matter of taste. > > 200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin, which > indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol either, though. > Actually, the only thing I changed was the shape of the box, and I added an & > sign inside… Another matter of style. Do it how it looks good to you: they are your symbols. > >> >> * the slot attribute is invisible. I like to make it visible, so >> it is explicitly shown on the schematic and can be edited on mouse >> click. I personally prefer it invisible. Do as you please. >> >> * there is no value attribute --> this attribute is used in the bill of >> materials There's no common convention here. I often use the device attribute for this purpose. Then value is for things like resistors. Whatever makes sense to you. >> >> * the visible string 7400 is simple text. That way, it cannot be edited >> in the schematic. In a real circuit it should read 74HC00 or whatever >> flavor of TTL logic should be used. That's an old convention. Due to Ales? I usually agree with Kai-Martin on this matter of style (but on some days ...). Use device= or value= to identify the component if you like. >> >> * the supply nets are implicitly given with the net attribute. IMHO, >> this approach hides information that should be visible in the >> schematic. I prefer to put the power pins in a dedicated 74er >> power symbol. Another matter of style, where I again generally agree with Kai-Martin. I even use the power symbols he posted on gedasymbols. But do what makes sense for *your* flow. >> >> * suggestion: If the symbol complies to a specific IEC norm. How about >> a comment, that refers to the specific norm? Good idea. >> >> * what is the intended use of the attribute device=7400 ? Another style is to use device= as a generic identifier (7400), and put the complete part number in value=, e.g. value=SN74HC00D or some such. > > Don't know, I didn't add that, so it is probably the same as the original > symbol. > >> >> ---<)kaimartin(>--- > > If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your likings > and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols accordingly? Your symbols should fit your prejudices and intended use. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 18:42:49 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ I just looked at 7400-IEC-1.sym. Some comments: * some lines of invisible text is not on 100 grid. I took a look myself and you're right. I didn't make those though, since I just modified an existing gate, so I guess they are not on ”100 grid” in the original symbol files either, but I didn't check that yet. I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should remove them entirely. * the footprint attribute is invisible Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible? * pin labels are invisible * if pin labels were visible, they'd collide with the box * pin length is 200 units. IMHO, these lengthy pins result in awkward artwork, when there is little space on the canvas. This is of course a matter of taste. 200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin, which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol either, though. Actually, the only thing I changed was the shape of the box, and I added an & sign inside… * the slot attribute is invisible. I like to make it visible, so it is explicitly shown on the schematic and can be edited on mouse click. * there is no value attribute --> this attribute is used in the bill of materials * the visible string 7400 is simple text. That way, it cannot be edited in the schematic. In a real circuit it should read 74HC00 or whatever flavor of TTL logic should be used. * the supply nets are implicitly given with the net attribute. IMHO, this approach hides information that should be visible in the schematic. I prefer to put the power pins in a dedicated 74er power symbol. * suggestion: If the symbol complies to a specific IEC norm. How about a comment, that refers to the specific norm? * what is the intended use of the attribute device=7400 ? Don't know, I didn't add that, so it is probably the same as the original symbol. ---<)kaimartin(>--- If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols accordingly? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Stefan Salewski wrote: > http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:master_attributes_list > > >>Symbol only Attributes > >>device >>device= is the device name of the symbol and is required by gnetlist. >>device= should be placed somewhere in the symbol and made invisible. > > Still I do not really understand that... I just removed the statement that this attribute is required by gnetlist, since it isn't. Many of my symbols netlist fine without such an attribute. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Sat, 2011-01-01 at 18:42 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: > > * what is the intended use of the attribute device=7400 ? I think I have used and suggested once to put not plain text strings like "7400" onto the symbol, but use an attribute, it may have been device. device may be reserved for spice, so I may have used value attribute, which should be a better choice. But still I suggest using attributes for the visible text -- one advantage is that we can modify it in the schematic, i.e. to "74HCT00". OK, lets look at http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:master_attributes_list >Symbol only Attributes >device >device= is the device name of the symbol and is required by gnetlist. >device= should be placed somewhere in the symbol and made invisible. Still I do not really understand that... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > here's a > new try, which I tested several times: > > http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ I just looked at 7400-IEC-1.sym. Some comments: * some lines of invisible text is not on 100 grid. * the footprint attribute is invisible * pin labels are invisible * if pin labels were visible, they'd collide with the box * pin length is 200 units. IMHO, these lengthy pins result in awkward artwork, when there is little space on the canvas. This is of course a matter of taste. * the slot attribute is invisible. I like to make it visible, so it is explicitly shown on the schematic and can be edited on mouse click. * there is no value attribute --> this attribute is used in the bill of materials * the visible string 7400 is simple text. That way, it cannot be edited in the schematic. In a real circuit it should read 74HC00 or whatever flavor of TTL logic should be used. * the supply nets are implicitly given with the net attribute. IMHO, this approach hides information that should be visible in the schematic. I prefer to put the power pins in a dedicated 74er power symbol. * suggestion: If the symbol complies to a specific IEC norm. How about a comment, that refers to the specific norm? * what is the intended use of the attribute device=7400 ? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 12:55:41 skrev Florian E. Teply : On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 12:01:36 +0100 "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote: Den 2011-01-01 03:06:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : > Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > >> uploaded them here (temporarily): >> http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ > > I just receive this message: > Could not locate object > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- Something went wrong yesterday, I don't know exactly what, but here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ * INFORMATION FOR OPERA USERS ONLY (at least 11.00 build 1156): * There seems to be some kind of bug with Opera and .tar.bz2 files: Opera added 23 bytes to the file for some reason. If you insist in using Opera for this, you need to remove the first 15 bytes and the last 8 bytes of the file. The correct size of the file is 2335 Bytes. You can use ghex2 for editing the file. The file should start with ”BZh61AY&SY” and end with ”bb...@”. * It seems to me that this is indeed not an opera-specific problem: also with wget, opera 10.63 and dillo this turns out to happen, arora as well as ancient NCSA Mosaic just work fine on that. Funny thing is that only opera and arora seem to come up with the intended filename 74-IEC.tar.bz2 ... Shall i put it up someplace else? HTH, Florian I asked the people at the Opera channel (IRC) at OperaNet (Europe) and they found out what happened. The server compressed the file again ”without telling Opera”, they said, so when downloading it with Opera you really get a ”.tar.bz2.gz” rather than just a ”.tar.bz2”, so you need to add ”.gz” to the file name, then extract the file twice… Anyway, I intend to add them at http://www.gedasymbols.org/ myself (asking for an account and all that), I just thought that someone could take a look at them since this is the very first time I create any symbols. Sure, I just edited existing symbols so I guess not much could have gone wrong, just wanted to be as sure as possible. I have tried a few of them and they seemed to work, but I didn't do anything advanced with them. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 12:01:36 +0100 "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote: > Den 2011-01-01 03:06:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : > > > Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > > > >> uploaded them here (temporarily): > >> http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ > > > > I just receive this message: > > Could not locate object > > > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > > Something went wrong yesterday, I don't know exactly what, but here's > a new try, which I tested several times: > > http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ > > > > > * INFORMATION FOR OPERA USERS ONLY (at least 11.00 build 1156): > * There seems to be some kind of bug with Opera and .tar.bz2 > files: Opera added 23 bytes to the file for some reason. If you > insist in using Opera for this, you need to remove the first 15 bytes > and the last 8 bytes of the file. The correct size of the file is > 2335 Bytes. You can use ghex2 for editing the file. The file should > start with ”BZh61AY&SY” and end with ”bb...@”. > * > It seems to me that this is indeed not an opera-specific problem: also with wget, opera 10.63 and dillo this turns out to happen, arora as well as ancient NCSA Mosaic just work fine on that. Funny thing is that only opera and arora seem to come up with the intended filename 74-IEC.tar.bz2 ... Shall i put it up someplace else? HTH, Florian ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 03:06:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: uploaded them here (temporarily): http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ I just receive this message: Could not locate object ---<)kaimartin(>--- Something went wrong yesterday, I don't know exactly what, but here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ * INFORMATION FOR OPERA USERS ONLY (at least 11.00 build 1156): * There seems to be some kind of bug with Opera and .tar.bz2 files: Opera added 23 bytes to the file for some reason. If you insist in using Opera for this, you need to remove the first 15 bytes and the last 8 bytes of the file. The correct size of the file is 2335 Bytes. You can use ghex2 for editing the file. The file should start with ”BZh61AY&SY” and end with ”bb...@”. * -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > uploaded them here (temporarily): > http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ I just receive this message: Could not locate object ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On 12/31/2010 03:11 PM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: the effort to design populate and debug an eurocard full of 74xx is daunting too. It really is. The static electricity damage can drive you nuts. don't want to go back in time... Micros are so cheap and low power I'd only consider an FPGA system loaded by a cheap micro that is available in the product after development. JG ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 22:11:09 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Den 2010-12-31 16:31:42 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. Hm… searched the web a bit for Verilog and FPGA, so now I know a little (very little) about it, at least. Seems like I already have a Verilog compiler installed on my system (iverilog) and there are manpages for it. Not sure, however, how to connect the FPGA thing to my computer to program it (I'm on Ubuntu 10.10). What do I need to do that? Not that I intend to do it at the moment, just curious. For our DAQ systems we recently use an ARM7 chip LPC2148 as frontend to an Altera Cyclon 3 FPGA (144pins, 3C25). This is not the smallest project size I can think off. The boards are 106x70 mm². The ARM7 has a USB interface. The FPGA then drives a set of ADCs, filters the data, triggers, and formats the data through some FIFOs to the ARM7 and from there either via USB to the host or via SPI on a uSDcard. On power up, the ARM7 reads the FPGA configuration from a flash and feeds it to the FPGA (passive serial mode). Previusly, we had a Cyclon2 chip connected via a parallel port. You need four pins to program an Altera in passive serial mode (SCLK, DATA, nCONFIG, CONF_DONE). Or use JTAG. With the parallel port I considered writing a kernel driver, but we still toggle the bits from user space, three syscalls ber bit, but that adds up to only a few tens of seconds. And when all is debugged and supposed to work without a computer, there are little EEPROM chips that can feed the configuration into the FPGA. I did not do that for 10 years, so I don't know how easy it is to get those burned. So, it really depends how complex your circuit is, and how it's going to be used in the end. But the effort to design populate and debug an eurocard full of 74xx is daunting too. Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does not seem to be your problem. Well, learning is always fun, but there is so much else I want to do that is closer to my main interest (as a musician and ”recording engineer”) See, it depends. How many 74xx parts will your circuit need? Oh, not many, I am not sure yet, but it's a small project. I just thought that it would be nice with those symbols for future projects, not only this one. so even if there is no deadline, I can't spend all my time on it anyway. Sure, else you'd not say "... will move very slowly to begin with…" And I have a wife… :D Oh yes, that is a drain on resources .. Happy new year! Happy new year you too! We have had a new year for about 42 minutes here… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 17:21:45 skrev JohnLM : I actually use "boxy" symbols quite a lot. Well more on paper or with software that has them anyway. Well since I (would) use them myself, I'd have no big problem making those. I'd go for whole set of lights and make few most used 74xx heavies. I have been doing a few from the 74 series tonight, those I think I might use some time… I made the following 12 symbols by just modifying the existing default symbols, giving them new names: 7400-IEC-1.sym 7401-IEC-1.sym 7402-IEC-1.sym 7404-IEC-1.sym 7405-IEC-1.sym 7408-IEC-1.sym 7409-IEC-1.sym 7414-IEC-1.sym 7432-IEC-1.sym 7486-IEC-1.sym 74132-IEC-1.sym 74266-IEC-1.sym I ignored all gates with more than 2 inputs (does anyone use them anyway?), and more complex things like 74160, since they look the same in IEC versions anyway, don't they? If anyone want to see them and look for things that are not quite right, I uploaded them here (temporarily): http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ It's a compressed tarball called ”74-IEC.tar.bz2”, containing the 12 symbols. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
"Johnny Rosenberg" writes: > Den 2010-12-31 16:31:42 skrev Stephan Boettcher > : > >> "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: >> No. That's the wrong conclusion. >>> >>> Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to >>> create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very >>> slowly to begin with… >> >> Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever >> you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. > > Hm… searched the web a bit for Verilog and FPGA, so now I know a > little (very little) about it, at least. Seems like I already have a > Verilog compiler installed on my system (iverilog) and there are > manpages for it. Not sure, however, how to connect the FPGA thing to > my computer to program it (I'm on Ubuntu 10.10). What do I need to do > that? Not that I intend to do it at the moment, just curious. For our DAQ systems we recently use an ARM7 chip LPC2148 as frontend to an Altera Cyclon 3 FPGA (144pins, 3C25). This is not the smallest project size I can think off. The boards are 106x70 mm². The ARM7 has a USB interface. The FPGA then drives a set of ADCs, filters the data, triggers, and formats the data through some FIFOs to the ARM7 and from there either via USB to the host or via SPI on a uSDcard. On power up, the ARM7 reads the FPGA configuration from a flash and feeds it to the FPGA (passive serial mode). Previusly, we had a Cyclon2 chip connected via a parallel port. You need four pins to program an Altera in passive serial mode (SCLK, DATA, nCONFIG, CONF_DONE). Or use JTAG. With the parallel port I considered writing a kernel driver, but we still toggle the bits from user space, three syscalls ber bit, but that adds up to only a few tens of seconds. And when all is debugged and supposed to work without a computer, there are little EEPROM chips that can feed the configuration into the FPGA. I did not do that for 10 years, so I don't know how easy it is to get those burned. So, it really depends how complex your circuit is, and how it's going to be used in the end. But the effort to design populate and debug an eurocard full of 74xx is daunting too. >> Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does >> not seem to be your problem. > > Well, learning is always fun, but there is so much else I want to do > that is closer to my main interest (as a musician and ”recording > engineer”) See, it depends. How many 74xx parts will your circuit need? > so even if there is no deadline, I can't spend all my time on it > anyway. Sure, else you'd not say "... will move very slowly to begin with…" > And I have a wife… :D Oh yes, that is a drain on resources .. Happy new year! -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 16:31:42 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. Hm… searched the web a bit for Verilog and FPGA, so now I know a little (very little) about it, at least. Seems like I already have a Verilog compiler installed on my system (iverilog) and there are manpages for it. Not sure, however, how to connect the FPGA thing to my computer to program it (I'm on Ubuntu 10.10). What do I need to do that? Not that I intend to do it at the moment, just curious. Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does not seem to be your problem. Well, learning is always fun, but there is so much else I want to do that is closer to my main interest (as a musician and ”recording engineer”) so even if there is no deadline, I can't spend all my time on it anyway. And I have a wife… :D (It should be possible to draw a gschem schematic, export a verilog netlist and upload that to the FPGA too, for parts of the circuit you feel more comfortable, but then you'd need to do both, symbols and Verilog :-) -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
I actually use "boxy" symbols quite a lot. Well more on paper or with software that has them anyway. Well since I (would) use them myself, I'd have no big problem making those. I'd go for whole set of lights and make few most used 74xx heavies. On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 15:15:45 +0100 "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote: > Den 2010-12-31 15:03:13 skrev Stephan Boettcher > : > > > "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: > > > >> Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, > > > > Yes. > > > > Will that be generic, light logic symbols, or 74xx series > > symbols? > > I don't know, maybe 74xx series, but I don't think I will just sit > down and try to make them all, just the most common ones that I need > and when I need them. I will probably also include some of the 40xxx > series ones, I guess, since the symbols themselves look the same > anyway. > > > > >> and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use > >> them. > > > > No. That's the wrong conclusion. > > > > Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to > create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very > slowly to begin with… > > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Philipp Klaus Krause writes: > Am 31.12.2010 16:31, schrieb Stephan Boettcher: >> >> Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever >> you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. >> >> Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does >> not seem to be your problem. >> >> (It should be possible to draw a gschem schematic, export a verilog >> netlist and upload that to the FPGA too, for parts of the circuit you >> feel more comfortable, but then you'd need to do both, symbols and >> Verilog :-) >> > > Well, sometimes you just need a few gates somewhere, e.g. one of my > boards contains just a 74LS21, a capacitor and an EPROM. Well, we were talking about some library of symbols, presumably to express some more complex logic. To review a logic circuit diagram, it helps if you have symbols that are easy to read. A circuit with a single gate of glue logic does not need this kind of review. If Johnny wants to design a circuit with 74xx/4xxx series parts, he needs a schematic that he can easily review himself, and symbols that he grew up with will certainly help. If somebody needs to design a circuit expressed via schematic entry and some PHB demands those IEEE symbols, or the reviwer audience wants it that way, then such a library will be usefull too. I'd still try to convince said PHB to accept Verilog instead, but that may also be a waste of time. > Using a FPGA or even a CPLD would be overkill. While I prefer the "US" > symbols even though I grew up in germany; I know people that prefer > other symbol styles, and if they were there for those that want to use > them. I grew up with the symbols in the rightmost column here (DIN40700): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logikgatter#Typen_von_Logikgattern_und_Symbolik from a German TV series by Jean Pütz (1974, at age 10). I still find the US ANSI 91-1984 column easier to parse than the IEC 60617-12 symbols. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Am 31.12.2010 16:31, schrieb Stephan Boettcher: > > Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever > you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. > > Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does > not seem to be your problem. > > (It should be possible to draw a gschem schematic, export a verilog > netlist and upload that to the FPGA too, for parts of the circuit you > feel more comfortable, but then you'd need to do both, symbols and > Verilog :-) > Well, sometimes you just need a few gates somewhere, e.g. one of my boards contains just a 74LS21, a capacitor and an EPROM. Using a FPGA or even a CPLD would be overkill. While I prefer the "US" symbols even though I grew up in germany; I know people that prefer other symbol styles, and if they were there for those that want to use them. Philipp ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
"Johnny Rosenberg" writes: >> No. That's the wrong conclusion. >> > > Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to > create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very > slowly to begin with… Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does not seem to be your problem. (It should be possible to draw a gschem schematic, export a verilog netlist and upload that to the FPGA too, for parts of the circuit you feel more comfortable, but then you'd need to do both, symbols and Verilog :-) -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On 12/31/2010 08:52 AM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: I guess I could use whatever Why, certainly! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 15:40:39 skrev John Griessen : On 12/31/2010 08:02 AM, Stephen Trier wrote: I was wondering whether there would be a demand for this style of logic symbol in gschem. Most logic designers now use verilog blocks for such logic and never even make a diagram with visual cues like IEEE symbols have. In the US or in the whole world? As I am not a logic designer, but rather a guitar player, I guess I could use whatever symbols I like, right…? ;P Since much low level logic is synthesized for chips or FPGAs these days, and there is often a way to probe signals anywhere, the meaning conveyed by control wires as in up, down, clr, is only made more obvious when using probes or verilog testbench code. Making function visually obvious seems to be skipped since just after IEEE symbols were proposed in the 70's. Except for TIs discrete logic parts. John -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On 12/31/2010 08:02 AM, Stephen Trier wrote: I was wondering whether there would be a demand for this style of logic symbol in gschem. Most logic designers now use verilog blocks for such logic and never even make a diagram with visual cues like IEEE symbols have. Since much low level logic is synthesized for chips or FPGAs these days, and there is often a way to probe signals anywhere, the meaning conveyed by control wires as in up, down, clr, is only made more obvious when using probes or verilog testbench code. Making function visually obvious seems to be skipped since just after IEEE symbols were proposed in the 70's. Except for TIs discrete logic parts. John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 15:03:13 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, Yes. Will that be generic, light logic symbols, or 74xx series symbols? I don't know, maybe 74xx series, but I don't think I will just sit down and try to make them all, just the most common ones that I need and when I need them. I will probably also include some of the 40xxx series ones, I guess, since the symbols themselves look the same anyway. and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use them. No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
"Johnny Rosenberg" writes: > Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, Yes. Will that be generic, light logic symbols, or 74xx series symbols? > and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use > them. No. That's the wrong conclusion. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
2010/12/31 Stefan Salewski <[1]m...@ssalewski.de> But the main advantage of that shape may be, that complicated devices like [2]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/74LS192_ Symbol.png/220px-74LS192_Symbol.png as used in some (german) VHDL/FPGA textbooks are available. I have no idea where to get a list of all that complicated pictures. Hi, everyone. Oh, those! I recognize them now! Those are often called "IEEE standard" logic symbols in the US. The only place I've ever seen them used is Texas Instruments data sheets, though I can see their appeal. They are a rich language for expressing logic. TI has a nice app note explaining the symbology and history of the standard. Apparently the IEEE and IEC have nearly-entirely-compatible versions of the standard. The IEEE one is IEEE 91-1984. [3]http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/sdyz001a/sdyz001a.pdf With the library discussion of the last few weeks, I was wondering whether there would be a demand for this style of logic symbol in gschem. Stephen References 1. mailto:m...@ssalewski.de 2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/74LS192_Symbol.png/220px-74LS192_Symbol.png 3. http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/sdyz001a/sdyz001a.pdf ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Fri, 2010-12-31 at 14:10 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > > > >__ > > | | > > | |\ > > | & |-––– > > | | > > |__| > > > > > > I've seen those too, but they are not the same as those I learned at > school and have used all my life. > > Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, and that it's no > point sharing them since I am the only one who use them. > Thanks for all the input. > The basic ones are of course mentioned at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate But the main advantage of that shape may be, that complicated devices like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/74LS192_Symbol.png/220px-74LS192_Symbol.png as used in some (german) VHDL/FPGA textbooks are available. I have no idea where to get a list of all that complicated pictures. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 13:20:07 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Den 2010-12-31 02:58:36 skrev Stephan Boettcher : kai-martin knaak writes: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: __ | | | & |o––– |__| Ah, those box shaped symbols. Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had difficulties plotting circles. So I am the only one that use still them? maybe :-) And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the output if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? Now that you mention it, the symbol is suppsed to look like this: __ | | | |\ | & |-––– | | |__| I've seen those too, but they are not the same as those I learned at school and have used all my life. Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use them. Thanks for all the input. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
"Johnny Rosenberg" writes: > Den 2010-12-31 02:58:36 skrev Stephan Boettcher > : > >> kai-martin knaak writes: >> >>> Johnny Rosenberg wrote: >>> __ | | | & |o––– |__| >>> >>> Ah, those box shaped symbols. >>> Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... >> >> Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had >> difficulties plotting circles. >> > > So I am the only one that use still them? maybe :-) > And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the output > if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? Now that you mention it, the symbol is suppsed to look like this: __ | | | |\ | & |-––– | | |__| -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:05:41 +0100 "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote: > So I am the only one that use still them? > > And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the > output if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? > > They seems to be used pretty much in my country anyway. I used them > for eight years at a company a few years back. When I was working for The Big Red German Automotive Electronic supplier company back in 2008, they were using rectangular shapes for OPAs as well. Levente ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 02:58:36 skrev Stephan Boettcher : kai-martin knaak writes: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: __ | | | & |o––– |__| Ah, those box shaped symbols. Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had difficulties plotting circles. So I am the only one that use still them? And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the output if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? They seems to be used pretty much in my country anyway. I used them for eight years at a company a few years back. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 01:06:11 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing involved as far as I can see. You may point your browser to http://gedasymbols.org Yes, that's what I meant by ”the gEDA symbols site”. On that page you can read ”you could browse the official libraries listed below”. However, I can't see any ”official libraries” below. The only thing that relates to symbols are the names to the right, and when clicking one of them I need to click each symbol to preview it, they are not all just there. It would be nice if the symbols were sorted by type or something, rather than by names of the people who made them. Anyway, I clicked a few of the contributors but I guess I will need to click them all, since what I'm looking for always appears at the very last instance, no matter what I do… Maybe Murphy is involved somehow with his laws and stuff. This is a website dedicated to symbols, footprints and other geda related stuff contributed by users. It presents previews of symbols and footprints on mouse click. It's great that people contribute like this, it really is. I just wish there was an easier way to find a specific symbol. Right now it feels more like it's easier to make new symbols instead of finding them. Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? I tend to draw my symbols the way they were taught in German university courses. So they are likely IEC compliant, but no guarantee. I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? Surely, you are not! :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
kai-martin knaak writes: > Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > >> __ >> | | >> | & |o––– >> |__| >> > > Ah, those box shaped symbols. > Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had difficulties plotting circles. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > __ > | | > | & |o––– > |__| > Ah, those box shaped symbols. Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 01:37:50 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-31 at 01:06 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find > anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing > involved as far as I can see. You may point your browser to http://gedasymbols.org This is a website dedicated to symbols, footprints and other geda related stuff contributed by users. It presents previews of symbols and footprints on mouse click. > Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC > symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? I tend to draw my symbols the way they were taught in German university courses. So they are likely IEC compliant, but no guarantee. > I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? Surely, you are not! :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- I think he was asking about these rectangular boxes, as used in german textbooks, Tietze/Schenk or Reichardt/Schwarz. Indeed I have not seen these on your page or gedasymbols at all, so you may give the full link... I don't know about those ”german textbooks”, but they are rectangular indeed. I'll try to draw an NAND gate below, but you need a font like Free Mono, Liberation Mono, Courier or similar to view it right: __ | | | & |o––– |__| And a NOR gate would look like this: __ | | | ≥1 |o––– |__| -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
On Fri, 2010-12-31 at 01:06 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: > Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > > > I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find > > anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing > > involved as far as I can see. > > You may point your browser to > http://gedasymbols.org > This is a website dedicated to symbols, footprints and other geda > related stuff contributed by users. It presents previews of symbols and > footprints on mouse click. > > > > Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC > > symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? > > I tend to draw my symbols the way they were taught in German university > courses. So they are likely IEC compliant, but no guarantee. > > > > I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? > > Surely, you are not! :-) > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- I think he was asking about these rectangular boxes, as used in german textbooks, Tietze/Schenk or Reichardt/Schwarz. Indeed I have not seen these on your page or gedasymbols at all, so you may give the full link... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find > anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing > involved as far as I can see. You may point your browser to http://gedasymbols.org This is a website dedicated to symbols, footprints and other geda related stuff contributed by users. It presents previews of symbols and footprints on mouse click. > Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC > symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? I tend to draw my symbols the way they were taught in German university courses. So they are likely IEC compliant, but no guarantee. > I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? Surely, you are not! :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
