Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Michael Sokolov schrieb: Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. In the nicest possible way, WTF? [...] The lead-free crap suffers from the severe problem of tin whiskers. [...] You can still get gold finish. It's both RoHS compliant and reliable (and can be used with whatever solder you choose). The oldest pcbs I still use are from the early 80s. Those with gold finish seem to be in better shape than those with the SnPb finish. Philipp ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
On Friday 19 June 2009 03:52:10 Michael Sokolov wrote: * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. In the nicest possible way, WTF? * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. And again, WHY? Peter -- Peter Brett Cambridge University Engineering Department signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Ineiev ine...@gmail.com wrote: BTW why unplated holes may be preferable for this case? Sentimental reasons: I want my SDSL gadget to be just as professional as all those mainstream existing SDSL CPE products that fill eBay. I have *never* seen a real commercial product PCB on which the holes accommodating the plastic mounting tabs of non-Ethernet RJ connectors were plated. The SDSL gear is no exception: every single piece of SDSL CPE I've ever taken apart has had a plastic RJ connector for the DSL port (either 6-pin or 8-pin, but never the shielded type used for Ethernet), and the holes where the plastic mounting tabs go are unplated. Hence I want the same on my board. Right now I'm leaning toward pcbfabexpress.com as my fab choice. I'll call them tomorrow to ask if they can do SnPb finish (late night here right now). They charge $50 extra for unplated drill and I'm OK with that. (That's for the whole order, not per board.) MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. In the nicest possible way, WTF? RoHS is an evil abomination that is reprehensible to the core of my being. The whole underlying philosophy behind RoHS is that bad elements should be eliminated from electronic products because those products will ultimately be thrown out and put into landfill. I am fundamentally at odds with that ideology because I don't believe that any computing, communication or other electronics should *ever* be thrown out. The idea of buying a new computer every few years and tossing the old one out is fundamentally reprehensible to me. Computing machinery should be passed through generations from father to son to grandson. I am using 1970s technology to compose this E-mail and I plan on continuing to use it well past 2038. The lead-free crap suffers from the severe problem of tin whiskers. The f***heads behind it don't care because they expect their crap to be thrown into trash long before tin whiskers grow, but it is a real problem for anyone who wants his electronic creations to outlast his own lifetime. I want my SDSL gadget to be usable to my great-great-great- great-grandchildren, so they can still connect their networks at 384 kbps even when everyone else around them has gone to exabits per second. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Michael Sokolovmsoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. In the nicest possible way, WTF? RoHS is an evil abomination that is reprehensible to the core of my being. The whole underlying philosophy behind RoHS is that bad elements should be eliminated from electronic products because those products will ultimately be thrown out and put into landfill. I am fundamentally at odds with that ideology because I don't believe that any computing, communication or other electronics should *ever* be thrown out. The idea of buying a new computer every few years and tossing the old one out is fundamentally reprehensible to me. So you still use a PDP-8 or something for all your computing tasks? I also don't like RoHS being legally required because I feel it lets us off the hook for doing real recycling programs. I also dislike it because there are so many other chemicals in machines that are also toxic and can't be removed as yet. The thing is keeping all our old hardware for ever and never replacing/upgrading anything is unreasonable. Computing machinery should be passed through generations from father to son to grandson. I am using 1970s technology to compose this E-mail and I plan on continuing to use it well past 2038. I have a slide rule and a uP board from the 1960's that does not mean I have a use ether. The uP is an energy hog as all the older stuff is relative to what we have now. The lead-free crap suffers from the severe problem of tin whiskers. The I though they added some nickle to solve this. f***heads behind it don't care because they expect their crap to be thrown into trash long before tin whiskers grow, but it is a real problem This I totally agree on. for anyone who wants his electronic creations to outlast his own lifetime. I want my SDSL gadget to be usable to my great-great-great- great-grandchildren, so they can still connect their networks at 384 kbps even when everyone else around them has gone to exabits per second. I doubt there will be any ISP that supports 384 kbps service in 50 years. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/ http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Michael - On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 06:52:14AM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: Ineiev ine...@gmail.com wrote: BTW why unplated holes may be preferable for this case? [pcbfabexpress.com] charge $50 extra for unplated drill and I'm OK with that. (That's for the whole order, not per board.) That's payment so that _they_ can make undersized plated holes, and then drill them out -- maybe by hand, maybe in their CNC drill. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Ineiev wrote: On 6/19/09, Larry Doolittle ldool...@recycle.lbl.gov wrote: On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:52:10AM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. Get all your holes plated and drill out your mounting holes by hand. Otherwise you will end up with a more expensive process. BTW why unplated holes may be preferable for this case? I always figured it was so the holes wouldn't get filled up if the board were wave soldered. But then again, I never cared enough to ask our producibility guys at work why they wanted un-plated mounting holes. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Price out APCircuits.com and sunstone.com -- I've used them both for 2 layer boards with very good results. I suspect their prices will be competitive. Shipping USA-Canada is no hassle. -dave Michael Sokolov wrote: Hello gEDA/PCB users, Ineiev is almost done with the layout of my SDSL board, and I am now looking for a place to fab it. I am posting here in the hope that some kind soul can suggest a PCB fab shop that would be a good fit for what I want to build. Here are my board features: * Simple rectangular PCB shape, 130x165 mm (about 33 sq in) * 4 layers (I was originally planning on 6, but Ineiev got it laid out in 4 layers without having to increase the size!) * Soldermask on both sides (color doesn't matter) * Silk screen on both sides (color doesn't matter) * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. * 8 mil rules should be good enough (Ineiev can correct me if I'm wrong on this one). Other considerations: * Quantity: 1 to 5 boards depending on the pricing * I would prefer a shop somewhere in USA for the ease of shipping, payment, communication, avoidance of customs etc. * I'm hoping for a price range somewhere around $500-700. Would anyone here happen to know of a PCB fab shop that can do what I want? TIA, MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Michael - On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:52:10AM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. Get all your holes plated and drill out your mounting holes by hand. Otherwise you will end up with a more expensive process. Choose your hole sizes with this post-processing in mind. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
Hello, I've good results and very fair pricing with http://www.pcb-pool.com/ and the Fab here in Germany. But they also have Fabs in UK/US, so I would recommend give it a try. Last time I let them fabricate an 4-Layer 6mil Rules PCB with Silk, Mask, plated Holes, unplated Holes and free Stencil. The offer an online calculator for PCBs - try it. The want a fee for converting RS-274X, but also provide a free tool (Gerber-Viewer) to convert to a format they accept without charge. Conversion is done in approx. 5min (Viewer runs also under wine). The also provide the possibility to deliver tested over-produced PCBs for 50% discount. No - I'm not affiliated in any way with them - just an satisfied customer. ;) Greetings, _ cand. Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Marcel Schmedes Research Technology Cockpit Cabin Control Diehl Aerospace GmbH An der Sandelmuehle 13 D-60439 Frankfurt/Main Phone: +49 (0) 69 5805-1712 Mail: marcel.schmedes.ext...@diehl-aerospace.de www. http://www.diehl-aerospace.de geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org schrieb am 19.06.2009 04:52:10: Hello gEDA/PCB users, Ineiev is almost done with the layout of my SDSL board, and I am now looking for a place to fab it. I am posting here in the hope that some kind soul can suggest a PCB fab shop that would be a good fit for what I want to build. Here are my board features: * Simple rectangular PCB shape, 130x165 mm (about 33 sq in) * 4 layers (I was originally planning on 6, but Ineiev got it laid out in 4 layers without having to increase the size!) * Soldermask on both sides (color doesn't matter) * Silk screen on both sides (color doesn't matter) * SnPb finish - this one is an absolute requirement for ideological / philosophical reasons, RoHS crap is *not* acceptable. * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. * 8 mil rules should be good enough (Ineiev can correct me if I'm wrong on this one). Other considerations: * Quantity: 1 to 5 boards depending on the pricing * I would prefer a shop somewhere in USA for the ease of shipping, payment, communication, avoidance of customs etc. * I'm hoping for a price range somewhere around $500-700. Would anyone here happen to know of a PCB fab shop that can do what I want? TIA, MS . Der Inhalt dieser E-Mail ist für den Absender rechtlich nicht verbindlich. Informieren Sie uns bitte, wenn Sie diese E-Mail fälschlicherweise erhalten haben (Fax: +49-7551-891-4001). Bitte löschen Sie in diesem Fall die Nachricht. Jede Form der weiteren Benutzung ist untersagt. . The content of this e-mail is not legally binding upon the sender. If this e-mail was transmitted to you by error, then please inform us accordingly (Fax: +49-7551-891-4001). In such case you are requested to erase the message. Any use of such e-mail message is strictly prohibited. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for PCB fab recommendations
On 6/19/09, Larry Doolittle ldool...@recycle.lbl.gov wrote: On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:52:10AM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: * Both plated and unplated drill. Some parts have plastic mounting elements and I want unplated holes for those. Get all your holes plated and drill out your mounting holes by hand. Otherwise you will end up with a more expensive process. BTW why unplated holes may be preferable for this case? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
