Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de writes: Sorry, I should have checked. Their domain is genuinely German: http://basista.de ^^ BTW, the website just got a redesign. It looks much fancier than last week. Their pcb service is high quality,though. Last time I got shorted tracks from them was back in 2003... http://www.leiton.de for prototypes. No problems in the past, but I do not know any others to compare to. When I was serching for a boardhouse in Germany a few years ago, they had the best web-site of all I could find, usable, giving all the infos I wanted without asking me for my life story first. And the send Gummibären with the boards. Gruß, Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
Stephan Boettcher wrote: http://www.leiton.de for prototypes. No problems in the past, but I do not know any others to compare to. When I was serching for a boardhouse in Germany a few years ago, they had the best web-site of all I could find, usable, giving all the infos I wanted without asking me for my life story first. And the send Gummibären with the boards. I just compared to basista for three identical, 100x100 mm double layer boards. If all parameters are the same, the prices match to within an euro. But you can get a 15% better price at leiton by waiting longer - 15 working days rather than 8 working days. With small series, it depends on what you need. Leiton wins for long lead time (12 to 25 working days) and larger amounts (minimum 0.4 m^2). Basista offers small series prices at a minimum of 0.2 m^2 and rather short lead time (2 to 8 working days). For the same amount of pcbs basista is at 8 days about 15% more expensive than leiton at 25 days. But basista offers 25% reduction for a follow-up and starts at half the minimum amount. Prices are quite similar. They both send gummi bears, too. Pcb fabbing is surely a competitive market. To me, the shorter lead time is a win. More often than not, projects need to be ready yesterday. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
Are you willing to work with chinese? On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Jim [1]...@k4gvo.com wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. Thanks, Jim. ___ geda-user mailing list [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [3]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 13:30 -0500, Jim wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. Where are you based? US / Europe / UK? I make the Europe / UK distinction partly to wind up main-land Europeans ;), and partly because I'm far more likely to be able to suggest a fab-house in the UK than (say) Germany. (And yes, UK residents typically use terms like I just came back from Europe, and neglect to remember we're all part of the same union). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:30:14 -0500 Jim j...@k4gvo.com wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. I use Olimex for prototypes. www.olimex.com They're not very high tech and they take a while, but they're reasonably inexpensive and they offer decent quality boards. 41.5 Euros (about $56) gets you a double-sided 160x100mm (about 6 x 3.9) panel with whatever you can cram into it, including going over their 500-hole limit. 8 mil trace/space, 24 mil minimum drill, 5 mil minimum silk. Soldermask on both sides, silk on top (bottom too if you want it). Surface-mount footprints are supported as long as they otherwise fit the 8/8 rule. They have additional board options and they offer discounts for additional panels. They are located in Bulgaria. For me, boards take about two weeks to get to my door from the date I order them. Note: they require a hand-written fax on the first order (security feature, no doubt). -- There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves. http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz vanessaezekow...@gmail.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 12:37 -0600, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: Note: they require a hand-written fax on the first order (security feature, no doubt). Fax, how quaint.. (I think there is a fax machine somewhere in our office.. but I doubt they will be common in 10 years time!) -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On 03/08/2010 11:30 AM, Jim wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. If you're in US then try BatchPCB if you can stand to wait 3 weeks. http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Home Pretty straight-forward service, reasonable prices for small quantities. Can't say how much hand-holding they'll give, but I have had a bit of helpful back forth with them when first getting started. Eric ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
If this is your first board, I'd go with a shop that is reasonably fast and known for quality work. Fast because: * this is your first board, and you are excited to have it. * this is your first board, and now is the time to make mistakes quickly. Quality work because: * this is your first board, and you don't need to chase any red herrings. On this side of the pond, I'd go for APCircuits or PCBExpress (not to be confused with express PCB). Either will give you a very high quality board, quickly. Either is as easy to work with as ordering a book from Amazon. Either will appear costly compared to slower solutions of less predictable quality. IMHO, today is your day to spend a few more dollars on a PCB and eat a cheap lunch. :) My friends have used Olimex with happy results, although you will wait. I used to be high on SparkFun's BatchPCB, but soured on it after experiencing long waits and getting back junk. Well, not total junk. I ordered multiple units of several different designs, and got back nearly 2X of each that I ordered. OK, at first I'm thinking they felt generous when they were panelizing, nice customer service. Turns out, many were bad boards. I think somebody *knew* they had just created a batch of dodgy boards, and ran another batch of panels and sent the whole output to their customers to sort it out. I consider 60% yield, expecting the customer to weed out the pigs, as unacceptable quality. The BatchPCB vendor is Gold Phoenix, a Chinese vendor. If you are outside North America, then APCircuits or PCBExpress may not be cost effective options. -dave On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:36 AM, jason duhamell wrote: Are you willing to work with chinese? On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Jim [1]...@k4gvo.com wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. Thanks, Jim. ___ geda-user mailing list [2]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [3]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
I can only recommend the company that I use to make my pcb's. [1]fz...@126.com from huizhou in china that is very easy to work with and very professional at a good price. usually less then 2 dollars a board for samples. On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:57 AM, Dave N6NZ [2]n...@arrl.net wrote: If this is your first board, I'd go with a shop that is reasonably fast and known for quality work. Fast because: * this is your first board, and you are excited to have it. * this is your first board, and now is the time to make mistakes quickly. Quality work because: * this is your first board, and you don't need to chase any red herrings. On this side of the pond, I'd go for APCircuits or PCBExpress (not to be confused with express PCB). Either will give you a very high quality board, quickly. Either is as easy to work with as ordering a book from Amazon. Either will appear costly compared to slower solutions of less predictable quality. IMHO, today is your day to spend a few more dollars on a PCB and eat a cheap lunch. :) My friends have used Olimex with happy results, although you will wait. I used to be high on SparkFun's BatchPCB, but soured on it after experiencing long waits and getting back junk. Well, not total junk. I ordered multiple units of several different designs, and got back nearly 2X of each that I ordered. OK, at first I'm thinking they felt generous when they were panelizing, nice customer service. Turns out, many were bad boards. I think somebody *knew* they had just created a batch of dodgy boards, and ran another batch of panels and sent the whole output to their customers to sort it out. I consider 60% yield, expecting the customer to weed out the pigs, as unacceptable quality. The BatchPCB vendor is Gold Phoenix, a Chinese vendor. If you are outside North America, then APCircuits or PCBExpress may not be cost effective options. -dave On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:36 AM, jason duhamell wrote: Are you willing to work with chinese? On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Jim [1][3]...@k4gvo.com wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. Thanks, Jim. ___ geda-user mailing list [2][4]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [3][5]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:[6]...@k4gvo.com 2. mailto:[7]geda-u...@moria.seul.org 3. [8]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [9]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [10]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [11]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [12]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:fz...@126.com 2. mailto:n...@arrl.net 3. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 4. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 5. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 6. mailto:j...@k4gvo.com 7. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 8. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 9. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 10. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 11. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 12. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
I've used 4pcb (US, via www.barebones.com, www.33each.com, and other specials) as well as www.pcb-pool.com (EU). @126.com I hate this ISP, but only because of their non-stop spamming of usenet (mostly for pcb fab work!). They're on my permanent blacklist and I refuse to do business with anyone who supports them. If they have so little respect for the community, how much respect will they have for their customers? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
[1]126.com is just a email like [2]gmail.com, what are you talking about? On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:08 AM, DJ Delorie [3...@delorie.com wrote: I've used 4pcb (US, via [4]www.barebones.com, [5]www.33each.com, and other specials) as well as [6]www.pcb-pool.com (EU). @[7]126.com I hate this ISP, but only because of their non-stop spamming of usenet (mostly for pcb fab work!). They're on my permanent blacklist and I refuse to do business with anyone who supports them. If they have so little respect for the community, how much respect will they have for their customers? ___ geda-user mailing list [8]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [9]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. http://126.com/ 2. http://gmail.com/ 3. mailto:d...@delorie.com 4. http://www.barebones.com/ 5. http://www.33each.com/ 6. http://www.pcb-pool.com/ 7. http://126.com/ 8. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 9. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 13:30 -0500, Jim wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. In my experience, most PCB manufacturers cope with newbies reasonably well. Is it in their interest to do so! In the UK there's PCB Train: http://www.pcbtrain.co.uk/ They at least have a web interface that'll immediately generate a quote for you, and take design submissions through the website. A number of friends and myself have used them fairly regularly. Their express service is extremely useful and cheap! The one thing that you should make sure you're aware of is that paying the extra for electrical test is going to be worth it. PCB Train will sell (and I'm sure other manufacturers will too) you boards that haven't been electrically tested, which I've been stung by in past. It's not pleasant having to manually beep every via on a board with a multi-meter! Rob signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
I would also go with fast and quality for the reasons that Dave stated. I would use PCB Express or Advanced Circuits. Highest quality boards in 2-5 days (depending on service). If you have more than one design panelize and cut them yourself. If you have friends that want PCBs group all your designs. (* jcl *) -- You can't create open hardware with closed EDA tools. twitter: http://twitter.com/jluciani blog:http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. I had my OSDCU board fabbed at Sierra Circuits (protoexpress.com). It certainly ought to meet the inexperienced first-timer requirement, as it was my life's first hardware design, and I am a software/firmware guy who got into designing hardware because I wanted to play with toys that didn't already exist because apparently they are of no use/interest to anyone in the world but me. I really liked Sierra's service and quality. To get an idea of just what I mean by my life's first HW design, see this page: http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/OpenWAN/OSDCU/ Includes schematics, PCB prints and a high-resolution photo of the finished board. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:37:57 +, Peter Clifton wrote: I'm far more likely to be able to suggest a fab-house in the UK than (say) Germany. In that case, others on the list can jump in ;-) ---(kaimartin)---(who gets his prototypes done by http://basista.com ) -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On 03/08/2010 12:28 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: ---(kaimartin)---(who gets his prototypes done by http://basista.com ) Odd - that resolves to a furniture store for me. Diversification! Eric ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:31:47 -0700, Eric Brombaugh wrote: (who gets his prototypes done by http://basista.com ) Odd - that resolves to a furniture store for me. Diversification! Sorry, I should have checked. Their domain is genuinely German: http://basista.de ^^ BTW, the website just got a redesign. It looks much fancier than last week. Their pcb service is high quality,though. Last time I got shorted tracks from them was back in 2003... ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote: Are there any fab shops that would be gentle with a very new, very inexperienced PCB designer? OH and reasonable for a prototype. Last time I laid up a board I used a drafting table and mylar. I may need a bit of handholding as I go along. I had my OSDCU board fabbed at Sierra Circuits (protoexpress.com). It certainly ought to meet the inexperienced first-timer requirement, as it was my life's first hardware design, and I am a software/firmware guy who got into designing hardware because I wanted to play with toys that didn't already exist because apparently they are of no use/interest to anyone in the world but me. I really liked Sierra's service and quality. To get an idea of just what I mean by my life's first HW design, see this page: I am going to agree with sierra proto express. The one time they screwed up a board design, A split ground plane became a full ground plane. I had my replacement boards the next day. Good service, and quality boards. They will even help you out with assembly services. Steve http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/OpenWAN/OSDCU/ Includes schematics, PCB prints and a high-resolution photo of the finished board. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for my first fab shop.
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:50:04 + Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 12:37 -0600, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: Note: they require a hand-written fax on the first order (security feature, no doubt). Fax, how quaint.. I know, I always thought it was a little odd of them to stick to such old technology, but that's the way they like it I guess. -- There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves. http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz vanessaezekow...@gmail.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
