Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers
It seems like gnetlist could be used to promote an attribute to the schematic. Does anyone know if someone has tried that? Oliver __ From: Stuart Brorson s...@cloud9.net To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 4:12:18 AM Subject: Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers IIRC, gattrib will handle attributes embedded in the schematic, not the symbol. The reason is that gattrb cannot reach into a symbol and modify its attributes. It only edits attributs in the schematic. Therefore, this is a feature. Stuart On Tue, 8 Feb 2011, Oliver King-Smith wrote: I have defined a number of symbols with an embedded part # for ease of ordering. An example of such a part # is T 700 1000 8 10 0 0 0 0 1 part_number=PMBS3904 This is visible on the schematic (if you turn on invisible text). However when I run gattrib on the schematic with this in it, I don't see the part number show up. I do see my part numbers show up for items where I entered it as an attribute for the particular part (such as a capacitor). Does anyone know if this is a feature or bug? Oliver ___ geda-user mailing list [1]geda-user@moria.seul.org [2]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 2. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers
On Feb 9, 2011, at 7:38 AM, Oliver King-Smith wrote: It seems like gnetlist could be used to promote an attribute to the schematic. No. Gnetlist can't do that kind of schematic to schematic translation. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers
So gnetlist does not know which schematic file it is operating on when it is processing data? Oliver __ From: John Doty j...@noqsi.com To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 6:48:02 AM Subject: Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers On Feb 9, 2011, at 7:38 AM, Oliver King-Smith wrote: It seems like gnetlist could be used to promote an attribute to the schematic. No. Gnetlist can't do that kind of schematic to schematic translation. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [1]http://www.noqsi.com/ [2]j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-user@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. http://www.noqsi.com/ 2. mailto:j...@noqsi.com 3. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers
On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:48 AM, Oliver King-Smith wrote: So gnetlist does not know which schematic file it is operating on when it is processing data? That's just one of many kinds of information a gnetlist back end cannot access. The front end thoroughly digests the input, and only presents certain summaries of it to the back end. That's why we've been working on a tool for more general processing of gEDA schematics at Noqsi Aerospace: https://github.com/xcthulhu/lambda-geda. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not showing part_numbers
On Feb 8, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Oliver King-Smith wrote: Does anyone know if this is a feature or bug? It's the way it works. Whether it's a bug depends on what you're trying to do. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not a good spreadsheet editor
intermediate file in comma separated spread sheet format. I've found Tab Separated Value (TSV) is easier to implement and more reliable, than CSV. Spread sheets like Excel can get CSV handling wrong in some edge cases, like nested quoted commas, mis-matched quotes etc. Excel, and as far I know GNUmeric, implement TSV fine. It is rare for a user to put a Tab in their data fields, unlike commas. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib not a good spreadsheet editor
On Jun 29, 2010, at 12:57 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote: That said, it looks like your are talking about using an editor for the the job gattrib does? That would be neat. Even better would be, if the file were in spread sheet format. Seems to me, gattrib has a hard time reinventing the spread sheet GUI wheel. The result feels pretty awkward when compared to gnumeric, oocalc and the like. How about this: Use the gschem parser of gattrib to synthesize an intermediate file in comma separated spread sheet format. Pipe this file to gnumeric/oocalc/whatever. The user manipulate values and attributes and saves. The non GUI gattrib application detects the changes and writes them back to the original gschem file. I haven't inspected the code yet. But I'd expect the this rewrite back-end to be already there in the gattrib source. If a user feels like not using a spread sheet application he or she can use scripting to manipulate the intermediate file as well. Ouups, I am guilty of dreaming about perfect solutions, too ;-) When I was working on my last project, when I was having so many problems, I learned what gattrib was for and started using it. But I found that even it was cumbersome and hard to use. gattrib in is present state is a handy manual touch up tool, not a power tool. Global search and replace does not work. Opening a new schematic page after finishing the first one does not work. And worst of all, if an attribute was not set in any symbol in the schematic file, there was no column for it in gattirb. Taking a cue from John Doty, I was trying to create the schematic pages light, then add footprints and other data in gattrib. The way to do that in the current implementation is to put attributes in customized symbols rather than attaching them to symbol instances in the schematic. But if I did that completely, then there was no column for footprints and no obvious way to add it. And when I put in a place holder footrpint file name, I was not able to replace all of them at once with the correct file name in gattirb. Ditto for fixing laboriously written in footprints from gschem that had misspelled the file name. If there was some way to use an existing spreadsheet program to do that actual editing, and there was a local resource file to indicate which columns to always include, even if they currently have no entries, that would greatly improve the functioning of gattrib, at least for me. Just my 2 kopecks worth. Mike ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 13:35 -0700, phil wrote:
Peter Clifton wrote:
Take a look at the symbol file in a text editor. Attribute blocks,
beginning { ...} should only follow a pin line P, net line N,
component line C.
gattrib is continuing to go down when saving my .sch file.
Is that snippet you posted one which triggers the error? I pasted that
(along with a header: v 20100214 2, into a .sch file, opened in
gattrib, saved... no errors.
What exact version of gattrib and gEDA are you using. Where did it come
from (distro / build from source etc..)?
What is the result of:
which gattrib
and:
ldd `which gschem`
ldd `which gattrib`
Run at the command prompt?
--
Peter Clifton
Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA
Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)
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Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 13:35 -0700, phil wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: What exact version of gattrib and gEDA are you using. Where did it come from (distro / build from source etc..)? Peter, Thank you for the help. With DJ holding my hand last nite on IRC I was able to build geda and gattrib version 1.6.1.201002xx. If gattrib is in a location remote to my sch.sch file, it continues to crash upon saving ... giving the msg: In s_object_attrib_add_attrib_in_object, trying to add attrib to non-complex or non-net! BUT! If I put the sch.sch file in the same /dir/dir/bin where my new gattrib is located the sch.sch loads and saves fine with gattrib. Why/how would where the sch.sch resides have an effect on memory bugs? Or have I made some other grave error? Phil ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
On Tue, 2010-05-04 at 11:02 -0700, phil wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 13:35 -0700, phil wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: What exact version of gattrib and gEDA are you using. Where did it come from (distro / build from source etc..)? Peter, Thank you for the help. With DJ holding my hand last nite on IRC I was able to build geda and gattrib version 1.6.1.201002xx. If gattrib is in a location remote to my sch.sch file, it continues to crash upon saving ... giving the msg: In s_object_attrib_add_attrib_in_object, trying to add attrib to non-complex or non-net! BUT! If I put the sch.sch file in the same /dir/dir/bin where my new gattrib is located the sch.sch loads and saves fine with gattrib. Why/how would where the sch.sch resides have an effect on memory bugs? It might be that gattrib is picking up the wrong libgeda.so file. That is why I asked for the output of: which gattrib and ldd `which gattrib` It is pretty bizarre that the schematic location affects things, but thinking further.. perhaps you have a gafrc file in the other directory which pulls in a bad footprint? It could be that the problem stems from something wrong in one of the symbols your schematic references. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
Peter Clifton wrote: It could be that the problem stems from something wrong in one of the symbols your schematic references. You are right. My problem was with an attribute inside a footprint: pinlable=x not pinlabel=x I changed those two letters and it all worked itself out. The serious issue is this: the attribute typo came from an older symbol, which I adapted. I've been using the older .sym file for 7 years without a problem. So why would that little typo all of a sudden crash gattrib? phil ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
On Tue, 2010-05-04 at 12:03 -0700, phil wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: It could be that the problem stems from something wrong in one of the symbols your schematic references. You are right. My problem was with an attribute inside a footprint: pinlable=x not pinlabel=x I changed those two letters and it all worked itself out. The serious issue is this: the attribute typo came from an older symbol, which I adapted. I've been using the older .sym file for 7 years without a problem. So why would that little typo all of a sudden crash gattrib? It should not crash, and I'd love if you could send me a simple test-case (minimal schematic + symbol) which reproduces the bug. The typo you describe should not have caused the grief... and I'm pretty surprised that is what resolved the issue. If you send me a test-case, I'll check I can reproduce and try to get the bug fixed. It might just be gattrib choking over pinlabel attributes in general.. I don't think it (yet) handles them properly - as typically gattrib just lets you edit _component_ attributes. Regards, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 17:02 -0700, phil wrote:
Running Gattrib version: 1.4.0.20080127 I get the error message
In s_object_attrib_add_attrib_in_object, trying to add attrib to
non-complex or non-net!
upon saving of my file. Is there any way to narrow down what gattrib is
balking at? There's obviously a problem with one of my symbols but I
can't tell easily what that is or in which symbol.
Phil Taylor
Take a look at the symbol file in a text editor. Attribute blocks,
beginning { ...} should only follow a pin line P, net line N,
component line C.
E.g. this is fine:
P 0 2600 300 2600 1 0 0
{
T 100 2650 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=25
}
This is not:
B 300 0 2000 4600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
{
T 100 2650 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=25
}
Regards,
--
Peter Clifton
Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA
Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)
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Re: gEDA-user: gattrib error message
Peter Clifton wrote:
Take a look at the symbol file in a text editor. Attribute blocks,
beginning { ...} should only follow a pin line P, net line N,
component line C.
gattrib is continuing to go down when saving my .sch file.
I scoured the file for attributes attached to items other than pins,
nets, and component lines, as well as the footprint files. I only find
{ brackets on the lines following P, N, or C ... so I think that's not
the problem (see snippet below)
gattrib -v verbose mode shows no error other than:
In s_object_attrib_add_attrib_in_object, trying to add attrib to
non-complex or non-net!
I chopped up the .sch file and ran it as small chunks through gattrib
and it didn't break gattrib. I tried to repeat this (because it was too
weird) and depending on where I make the line-breaks in the smaller .sch
files it will break or not-break gattrib. I always broke the file in
between two nets ... so it's not splitting up important information.
Is there a way to see what line of my file is killing gattrib?
Phil Taylor
; -- (chunk of .sch file -- it looks okay, right?) -
N 55400 79800 55400 8 4
N 55900 79300 56700 79300 4
N 55300 72800 55300 72700 4
N 55300 73800 55300 74600 4
N 55300 74600 58000 74600 4
C 56300 74500 1 270 0 resistor-1.sym
{
T 56800 73825 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
refdes=R10
T 56300 74500 5 10 0 0 270 0 1
footprint=R-0W25.fp
T 56800 74050 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
value=1.0
}
N 56600 74400 56600 74600 4
N 56600 73200 56600 73500 4
N 55800 73300 56600 73300 4
N 58900 76200 61800 76200 4
N 58000 74600 60400 74600 4
N 60400 74600 60400 75900 4
N 60400 75900 61800 75900 4
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Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
John, Are you even reading my posts? You comments, even when directly connected to quotes of my own text seem completely unrelated and non sequiturs, and often self contradictory. On Apr 27, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote: John Doty: These refer to the device, not the pattern of copper on the board. The pattern of copper corresponding to a given device footprint should be chosen in the layout process, because it depends (like other layout parameters) on the manufacturing processes. I am still confused by your continual assertion that the copper pattern should be completely separate from the physical part. As pointed out above, a DIP-16 is a through-hole device in any process, the pins are always 0.100 inches apart, the part number defines if it is a typical 300 mill spacing, or a wide 600 mill. What ever process you use to attach the chip to a circuit board, those things never change for that physical part number. The closest I can guess to something that would be 'process dependent' would be the size of the copper pads, and possibly the exclusion zone around them. I could see having one version for hand soldered work, with 40 mill pads and only enough room to run one signal line between them; and a professional fab shop version with 15 mill pads, 10 mill or smaller traces and and spaces and room for 4 or more signals between pins. These properties are critical, not trivial at all. Which properties? What makes them critical? How does these two sentences relate to to the two paragraphs above? I am more confused about what you mean after reading this, not less. If there was a parameter that could be set by gattrib for each part, Each part? Ugh! Specify the parameters of the *process*, leave the schematics alone. Aside from the fact that a part by part process is miserably low productivity, there's no reason to restrict a schematic to a particular process downstream. What process ? You have used that term many times without giving any examples. I gave two that proved the point in the opposite direction, that process has little or no affect on PCB copper patterns (commonly called footprints). If you can not offer an example of a process that PCB is used to design for but requires radically different copper patterns for the same physical part, I might be able to begin to understand what you point is. I know that PCB footprints are useless for designing a VLSI part, or and FPGA, or CPLD. But I also doubt very much that PCB can be used in anyway to design VLSI parts, pr FPGA arrays, or CPLD devices, so claiming that the *process* selects whether you use PCB footprints or FPGA blocks is meaningless. If you were using gschem to design an FPGA, you would not use gsch2pcb, and therefor even if you ran gattrib to fatten out your schematic symbols, you would not bother to do anything with PCB footprints. I agree that the *process* defines the tool chain. But once you have decided on the gschem to PCB tool chain as being best for your process, PCB footprints, as in copper traces, pins, pads, holes, silk screen, and solder mask pattern attached to a specific physical part, is not only needed but required, and should be as easy to reliably edit to make a good conversion to PCB as the original schematic designing was in gschem. Each part? Ugh! Emotional baggage rather then stating facts, observations, or offering arguments tend to convince me that you have no facts, observations, or arguments to back up your opinions. It is difficult to carry on a meaningful, informative, instructive discussion when your chief reply is Ugh! This response of yours also seems to contradict your self again. You keep calling for flexibility, yet when I mention something that increases flexibility, you suddenly throw up your arms and cry loose of flexibility. I have not yet used gattrib, but from what I have read here and elsewhere, its very purpose is to provide the designer with a text based interface to change attributes of symbols one at a time, or possibly in blocks. How can editing a parameter for each symbol to suggest to gsch2pcb that it use a fat pad and trace based footprint of a skinning based pad and trace pattern be anything other using exactly for what it was designed for? And if you do not intend to run PCB, you can run you own special wizard level too chain and never have to worry about any additions to gsch2pcb, and even if you use gatrib, you can easily ignore the portions that relate to PCBs. or gsch2pcb for all to pick from fat or skinny pads, I could see some use in that. But as far
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote: What process ? You have used that term many times without giving any examples. Concrete example: Board fabrication by PCB Express and board population by Screaming Circuits. Each has their own rules about what they can do for the base price, what costs extra, what they consider impossible. Different vendors have other rules. Footprints and other aspects of layout must conform to those rules: simply specifying DIP16 isn't enough. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
I guess part of my problem with gschem, pcb, and gsch2pcb is that I never understood what gattrib was for. I though it was an internal function used by gschem and gsch2pcb to get the values of symbols attributes out of the schematic file. I never realized it was intended for humans to use. And I DEFINITELY did not understand that it entered new values into the tables. Perhaps if it were called editattrib or setattrib it would be more obvious to newcommers to use it after creating light symbols in gcshem to add pcb footprints and other 'heavy symbol' attributes that are more easily handled in text. Also, this might be more clearly explained in the tutorials. But I still think that some tool, between gschem and pcb so that neither needs to change and John Doty can be happy, that matches up the graphics PCB footprints with the symbol, maybe a text compare of pin names or functions to see if pin 1 of the symbol matches pin A of the footprint. I also like the idea of a database of component part numbers, critical specs like capacitance, resistance, wattage, peak reverse voltage, and also had a footprint for that part. I just cower at the sheer scale of building such a database from many different distributors supplying parts from so many different vendors, each using different styles for their spec sheets, only most of which are online and in PDF form. If we can build such a database, that would help tremendously. But creating it and maintaining it, even with just static data like that listed above, would be a tremendous amount of work. Mike Not because of the bugs I ran into but since choosing a footprint is a difficult process in it self I was longing for a footprint browser. The easiest place to start a clean implementation may be gattrib, that I found conventient to duplicate footprint choices, once one has been assigned gschem. However, the best overview of what is what and therefore choose the right footprint is probably gschem. With gschem open, gattrib should work however, if one remembers, that gschem is in read only then. The problem could be split out of gschem, if it were better supported, to assign a physical part to the symbol. This will probably help other tools too, since e.g. a Spice model is tied to a part, not to a bunch of lines with pins (symbol). I first thought device were the thing to use, but in the standard library it's occupied by names like CAPACITOR_POLARIZED which says noting about rated voltage or ESR. Any ideas? Just my 2 cents ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
On Apr 27, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote: Not because of the bugs I ran into but since choosing a footprint is a difficult process in it self I was longing for a footprint browser. My personal view is that schematics should use the conventions in the gEDA documentation: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb_footprint_naming_conventions These refer to the device, not the pattern of copper on the board. The pattern of copper corresponding to a given device footprint should be chosen in the layout process, because it depends (like other layout parameters) on the manufacturing processes. A database-driven tool that maps device footprints into layout footprints would be useful. We could have databases for various requirement sets here. Keeping the responsibility for this out of gschem avoids unnecessary complication and facilitates design reuse: the schematic should be as free as possible from dependencies on the layout and manufacturing processes. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
John Doty: These refer to the device, not the pattern of copper on the board. The pattern of copper corresponding to a given device footprint should be chosen in the layout process, because it depends (like other layout parameters) on the manufacturing processes. I am still confused by your continual assertion that the copper pattern should be completely separate from the physical part. As pointed out above, a DIP-16 is a through-hole device in any process, the pins are always 0.100 inches apart, the part number defines if it is a typical 300 mill spacing, or a wide 600 mill. What ever process you use to attach the chip to a circuit board, those things never change for that physical part number. The closest I can guess to something that would be 'process dependent' would be the size of the copper pads, and possibly the exclusion zone around them. I could see having one version for hand soldered work, with 40 mill pads and only enough room to run one signal line between them; and a professional fab shop version with 15 mill pads, 10 mill or smaller traces and and spaces and room for 4 or more signals between pins. If there was a parameter that could be set by gattrib for each part, or gsch2pcb for all to pick from fat or skinny pads, I could see some use in that. But as far as I know, you can also do all of that in pcb, so there is no range of process variation that still uses a 16 pin dip that could not be edited in pcb. So why must we divorce the copper pattern from the component? How divergent a process are you holding out for that would still be laid out in pcb? Mike ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
On Apr 27, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote: John Doty: These refer to the device, not the pattern of copper on the board. The pattern of copper corresponding to a given device footprint should be chosen in the layout process, because it depends (like other layout parameters) on the manufacturing processes. I am still confused by your continual assertion that the copper pattern should be completely separate from the physical part. As pointed out above, a DIP-16 is a through-hole device in any process, the pins are always 0.100 inches apart, the part number defines if it is a typical 300 mill spacing, or a wide 600 mill. What ever process you use to attach the chip to a circuit board, those things never change for that physical part number. The closest I can guess to something that would be 'process dependent' would be the size of the copper pads, and possibly the exclusion zone around them. I could see having one version for hand soldered work, with 40 mill pads and only enough room to run one signal line between them; and a professional fab shop version with 15 mill pads, 10 mill or smaller traces and and spaces and room for 4 or more signals between pins. These properties are critical, not trivial at all. If there was a parameter that could be set by gattrib for each part, Each part? Ugh! Specify the parameters of the *process*, leave the schematics alone. Aside from the fact that a part by part process is miserably low productivity, there's no reason to restrict a schematic to a particular process downstream. or gsch2pcb for all to pick from fat or skinny pads, I could see some use in that. But as far as I know, you can also do all of that in pcb, so there is no range of process variation that still uses a 16 pin dip that could not be edited in pcb. So why must we divorce the copper pattern from the component? How divergent a process are you holding out for that would still be laid out in pcb? This is exactly the kind of tunnel vision that scares me. I have never used pcb, but I've designed quite a few printed circuit boards with gEDA (along with several VLSI chips, where footprint is irrelevant). This works because gschem is agnostic about what's downstream. It should stay that way. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib
On Apr 27, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote: As pointed out above, a DIP-16 is a through-hole device in any process, the pins are always 0.100 inches apart, the part number defines if it is a typical 300 mill spacing, or a wide 600 mill. What ever process you use to attach the chip to a circuit board, those things never change for that physical part number. Yes. Therefore footprint=DIP16, as recommended in the footprint naming conventions document, should be fine. The closest I can guess to something that would be 'process dependent' would be the size of the copper pads, and possibly the exclusion zone around them. Who says there are pads? Some still use wire-wrap. gEDA would be a fine way to feed an automated wire-wrap process, although I don't know if anyone has actually done this. Imagine, then, feeding the identical schematics to a pcb flow once the wire-wrap prototype is working... John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib: Adding new attribute columns
Bug report posted . ID: 2793743 :) BTW the version I'm using pops up various messages about things not being implemented yet such as opening a file, finding or searching for attributes. Is that what you'd expect from this version? Thanks, Andy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib: Adding new attribute columns
On Tuesday 19 May 2009 11:36:39 Andy Fierman wrote: Bug report posted . ID: 2793743 :) BTW the version I'm using pops up various messages about things not being implemented yet such as opening a file, finding or searching for attributes. Is that what you'd expect from this version? Yes. :( Peter -- Peter Brett Cambridge University Engineering Department signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib: Adding new attribute columns
Hi -- Say I have attributes A, B , and D in my schematic and I want to add a new attribute C to all the components. All my components have attribute information already entered for each of A, B and D. When I run gattrib, I get a table with column headings A, B and D with data under each of the relevant columns. If I add now a new column C then a new column heading for C is inserted between columns B and D and the existing column D heading is shifted one column to the right. However, the existing column contents do not. So, the column contents that were originally under column heading D are now under column heading C whilst the column under heading D is empty. If I save this then of course all the component attribute values that were originally named D are now named C. Sound like a bug. If instead, before I run gattrib, I add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic then of course when gattrib is run the table has all four column headings A, B, C and D with the attribute data in the right columns. Sounds correct. Is that the expected behaviour of this version of gattrib? No, you have a bug. I don't recall it behaving this way long ago, but it's been quite a while since I last hacked or used gattrib. I ask because the current gattrib readme implies it is no longer necessary to add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic. The README is probably older than the insert column feature. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib: Adding new attribute columns
Hi Stuart, Should I file a bug report? Should have said: I'm running the 64bit debs from the Mepis 8 repos on a dual core Athlon machine. 2009/5/18 Stuart Brorson s...@cloud9.net: Hi -- Say I have attributes A, B , and D in my schematic and I want to add a new attribute C to all the components. All my components have attribute information already entered for each of A, B and D. When I run gattrib, I get a table with column headings A, B and D with data under each of the relevant columns. If I add now a new column C then a new column heading for C is inserted between columns B and D and the existing column D heading is shifted one column to the right. However, the existing column contents do not. So, the column contents that were originally under column heading D are now under column heading C whilst the column under heading D is empty. If I save this then of course all the component attribute values that were originally named D are now named C. Sound like a bug. If instead, before I run gattrib, I add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic then of course when gattrib is run the table has all four column headings A, B, C and D with the attribute data in the right columns. Sounds correct. Is that the expected behaviour of this version of gattrib? No, you have a bug. I don't recall it behaving this way long ago, but it's been quite a while since I last hacked or used gattrib. I ask because the current gattrib readme implies it is no longer necessary to add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic. The README is probably older than the insert column feature. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Cheers, Andy. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib: Adding new attribute columns
Hi, Yes, please file a bug report. I can't promise anything will happen quickly, but we're talking about holding a code sprint not too long from now, and this will be action item #1 at the sprint. Stuart On Mon, 18 May 2009, Andy Fierman wrote: Hi Stuart, Should I file a bug report? Should have said: I'm running the 64bit debs from the Mepis 8 repos on a dual core Athlon machine. 2009/5/18 Stuart Brorson s...@cloud9.net: Hi -- Say I have attributes A, B , and D in my schematic and I want to add a new attribute C to all the components. All my components have attribute information already entered for each of A, B and D. When I run gattrib, I get a table with column headings A, B and D with data under each of the relevant columns. If I add now a new column C then a new column heading for C is inserted between columns B and D and the existing column D heading is shifted one column to the right. However, the existing column contents do not. So, the column contents that were originally under column heading D are now under column heading C whilst the column under heading D is empty. If I save this then of course all the component attribute values that were originally named D are now named C. Sound like a bug. If instead, before I run gattrib, I add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic then of course when gattrib is run the table has all four column headings A, B, C and D with the attribute data in the right columns. Sounds correct. Is that the expected behaviour of this version of gattrib? No, you have a bug. ?I don't recall it behaving this way long ago, but it's been quite a while since I last hacked or used gattrib. I ask because the current gattrib readme implies it is no longer necessary to add the new attribute to at least one instance of a component in the schematic. The README is probably older than the insert column feature. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Cheers, Andy. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib hacking (was: Re: libgd -- which programs uses it)
Hi Gareth -- Stuart, I have a few questions about some of the design of gattrib - is it OK to mail you off-list to discuss? I'm happy to see people using and hacking gattrib! Feel free to e-mail me at sdb (at) cloud9 (dot) net. I may not remember all the details of how the code works, but I'll do my best. Cheers, Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib hacking
Gareth Edwards wrote: Talking of which... I've been making a pass through the Doxygen documentation for gattrib in preparation for some changes I've been planning . . . the changes are on the doxying branch of git://repo.or.cz/geda-gaf/gde.git (browsable at http://repo.or.cz/w/geda-gaf/gde.git). Thanks for adding to this Gareth, It sounds very useful. I'll be able to take a look next Wed. John Griessen -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib text size
In gschem I have my default text size set as 8. If I add attributes via gattrib then the text is added as size 10. Obviously these are two separate programmes and gattrib is not dependant on the settings in my gschemrc, so this behaviour is kind of expected. Is there any way to set the default size of the text that is added when using gattrib? I tried to add a gattribrc file to my .gEDA directory with (text-size 8) in it, but that did not work. I forget the exact behavior of gattrib, but I can say that gattrib *does* read the gafrc file. Therefore, try putting a text-size declaration in your gafrc file. (To remind people, the idea of gafrc was to avoid the proliferation of RC files for each different member of gEDA/gaf by creating a single RC file which would contain settings read by all programs. In principle, you only need a gafrc. The gschemrc was kept because gschem has all kinds of GUI settings which no other program needs to read.) Cheers, Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib text size
I forget the exact behavior of gattrib, but I can say that gattrib *does* read the gafrc file. Therefore, try putting a text-size declaration in your gafrc file. I tried putting (text-size 8) into the gafrc file and removed it from the gschemrc file. Text added in gschem is then back to the default 10pt, and text added via gattrib is also still 10pt. *Harumph* Then it's possible that 10 is hard-coded into gattrib. I don't know why gschemrc ignores the text-size setting in gafrc. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib text size
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 07:35 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: I forget the exact behavior of gattrib, but I can say that gattrib *does* read the gafrc file. Therefore, try putting a text-size declaration in your gafrc file. I tried putting (text-size 8) into the gafrc file and removed it from the gschemrc file. Text added in gschem is then back to the default 10pt, and text added via gattrib is also still 10pt. *Harumph* Then it's possible that 10 is hard-coded into gattrib. Yep... grep DEFAULT_TEXT_SIZE *.c s_object.c:#define DEFAULT_TEXT_SIZE 10 This previously did look at the variables defined in gschemrc, but those got moved into GSCHEM_TOPLEVEL with this commit of mine: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=gaf.git;a=commitdiff;h=823d692b70510986db607c8592b788ca68dbb979 Since gattrib never parsed the gschemrc, there wasn't any change in behaviour by _not_ looking in those data-structures though. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [gattrib] OS X cut/paste
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 09:36:35PM -0700, John Doty wrote: On Dec 13, 2007, at 9:19 PM, Dave N6NZ wrote: Is there something wacky about OS X's implementation of X11 w.r.t. copy/paste, or have I stumbled into a gattrib bug? When in gattrib, I can select and copy (or at least appear to copy) data from a cell, but the paste menu entry never activates. I've never seen menu paste activate in OSX X11. Paste current selection, X11-style, using option-click or middle click. However: Using the version packaged in Ubuntu Gutsy (200706-something), I had rather the opposite experience: the usual X11 mouse select/paste has never worked for me, but the (right-click context menu) paste does. Well, except when it doesn't, but I'm not sure if the pins tab is supposed to be of any use - the only thing I tired to fixup that way ran into can't paste (probably only tried to use context menu?) as well as you can type new text in but it will be reverted (when focus leaves that cell, IIRC), so I went back to hacking in a text editor. I've also found that gattrib (only) is quite dysfunctional when working remotely through an ssh tunnel. gschem and pcb both work fine, albeit very, very slowly for some things (or all things when the tubes are feeling clogged), but in gattrib I never get anything but a hollow cross mouse pointer and can't do anything to the data cells (scrolling, menus, etc. work okay). The X server in this case is on a Feisty install, client on the same Gutsy machine. This works from gattrib to other apps, but it doesn't work when gattrib is the destination of the paste. I think this directionality matches my experience. I'm sure the can't paste from elsewhere into gattrib part is ringing a bell. -- An education that does not teach clear, coherent writing cannot provide our world with thoughtful adults; it gives us instead, at the best, clever children of all ages. -- Richard Mitchell ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [gattrib] OS X cut/paste
I just noticed the same problem using gattrib from cygwin on Windows XP. It seems to me that gattrib is emptying the paste buffer. I can alt-tab to my rxvt bash shell, highlight something (like a footprint file name), alt-tab back to gattrib, click in the cell I want to change, then shift-insert (to paste). However if I then click into another cell shift-insert does not paste, almost like the paste buffer was cleared. Repeating the copy gain works... once. BTW, I copy-n-paste between rxvt and other X11 apps (including gschem and pcb) with no issues. Michael - Original Message From: Timothy Normand Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:40:02 PM Subject: Re: gEDA-user: [gattrib] OS X cut/paste On 12/13/07, Dave N6NZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is there something wacky about OS X's implementation of X11 w.r.t. copy/paste, or have I stumbled into a gattrib bug? When in gattrib, I can select and copy (or at least appear to copy) data from a cell, but the paste menu entry never activates. Pretty annoying -- kills a lot of the utility of gattrib. Since I don't hear a chorus of OS X users complaining about this, I'm thinking its likely pilot error. I've only ever been able to paste using the middle mouse button. (What's in the OSX clipboard gets pasted that way.) I have no idea how one would get the OSX clipboard into the X11 clipboard so you could paste something more complex. -- Timothy Normand Miller http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~millerti Open Graphics Project ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib inserting a space before every csv column?
i rather have tab separated files for readability, this also helps prevent issues where decmial points are written as commas. steve On Dec 11, 2007 10:37 AM, Michael Stovenour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm using the 20070912 snapshot. When exporting to CSV in gattrib, it puts an extra space before every comma. The space is bound to cause more issues than it is worth for readability (assuming that's why it is in there). Is this expected behavior? E.x. refdes, device, footprint, value, symversion C1., CAPACITOR, , 22pF, 0.1 C2., CAPACITOR, , 22pF, 0.1 C3., CAPACITOR, , 0.1uF, 0.1 C4., CAPACITOR, , 0.1uF, 0.1 Thanks, Michael ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib for symbols?
Hi, Can I use gattrib to edit the attributes of a symbol? I have some largish symbols that I'm incrementally working on, and editing attributes such as pintype and pinseq are a burden. (Meaning I see no way to do it within gschem.) But when I try to load a symbol file into gattrib I get a SEGV: Hmmm, gattrib shouldn't seg fault in this case, but it seems a patch applied recently is causing problems. I'll fix the seg fault, but I'm afraid gattrib doesn't do symbol files at the moment. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gattrib crashes when window is resized
Not sure if this is a known problem? Everything else seems to work fine. I'm running on an up-to-date Gentoo box. I've attached a gdb backtrace. Any help would be appreciated. Or even pointing me in the right direction to solve the problem myself. I checked out the latest CVS code and poked around but thought I'd ask here first before wasting too much time. This is new. Can you please tell me: * Gattrib version? * Linux distro version? * Your Gnome theme (if it's not the default one for your distro)? As for the theme info, gattrib used to misbehave a little bit on certain Red Hat themes. It would print white font on white background, or something like that. Eventually somebody submitted a patch fixing the problem. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
