Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
John Coppens wrote: So, the soldering point has a fine layer of a metal which does accept solder, deposited during the manufacturing. IMHO, this layer is usually iron and not that fine -- abut half a mm. There might be some additional chemical activation involved. But I am not sure. If the point was too hot, this fine layer peels off, I'd say, it oxidizes. Unlike oxidized solder, this rust sticks to the tip. It requires more force to rub it off. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
El 04/02/11 22:10, Phil Taylor escribió: On 2/4/2011 1:42 PM, Rob Butts wrote: high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? (on unleaded) These solders don't flow as well, but they also contaminate easily. Hotter temperatures make this second factor a serious concern. If you're doing lead free, you have to have excellent flux or your iron will always be a mess, and you joints unpredictable. And once your tip goes black with lead-free, it's almost impossible to clean (and seems to just go black again straight away). The only solution I've found once that happens is very fine grade wet and dry paper, then re-tin it by sticking the tip in a blob of solder paste. I've also found that with lead free, cleaning the tip with a wet sponge is what starts it going black in the first place (probably other factors leading into it, too, perhaps too much heat). You have to be really careful with the sandpaper too because if you take that plating off the tip, it disintegrates in no time flat. However, once I'm on a run of the tip not going black, I can usually keep it shiny for a long time, but once it starts going black it's a real problem. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
Peter Clifton wrote: The black is oxidation, probably due to leaving the iron switched on for excessive periods without use, or due to having the iron too hot. ack. If both conditions combine, the tip gets dull and unusable. (I personally try to use Leaded solder as much as I can). Did you ever try a quality no-lead solder like Balver SN100C, or Felder SN100+ ? Unlike the cheaper SAC alloys, these solders feel comparable to leaded solder. If it is badly oxidised, you need to clean the tip using some kind of proprietary tip cleaner. I had good experience with steel wool. If the tip repels the solder, give it a decent rub. Our new soldering stations by OKi come with a bunch of brass wool. Due to their heater concept, the tip temperature does not overshoot. In addition, they detect when the tip is in the cradle and reduce the temperature. At my place, these soldering stations are subject to daily use by students who do their first electronics projects. All I can say, is that the first set of tips still show no obvious wear after about a year. Probably others will be able to provide better pointers ;). (And will point out if I have made any errors in mine). My only objection: You use leaded solder. ;-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 15:07 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: (I personally try to use Leaded solder as much as I can). Did you ever try a quality no-lead solder like Balver SN100C, or Felder SN100+ ? Unlike the cheaper SAC alloys, these solders feel comparable to leaded solder. Yes, good Lead free solder is not so bad. Most of the time though, when I'm soldering - I'm repairing existing equipment made with a leaded process, so I tend to keep leaded solder. Since I'm not doing production work, I can also get away with leaded solder for new work as well. I understand it is important to keep leaded and lead-free process stuff separate to avoid contamination - I'm not sure if that is a legislatory or process requirement though. I had good experience with steel wool. If the tip repels the solder, give it a decent rub. Our new soldering stations by OKi come with a bunch of brass wool. Due to their heater concept, the tip temperature does not overshoot. In addition, they detect when the tip is in the cradle and reduce the temperature. I use Metcal (Now OKI) irons. I own two SP-200 units, and really swear by them - even if you can't get truly tiny tip cartridges in that series. They are AMAZING irons for heavy work, as they are really powerful. The PSUs and irons sell for about £70-80 on Ebay second hand. My only objection: You use leaded solder. ;-) I guess we've got to live lead-free in this industry eventually, but I will hang on to Leaded whilst I can. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 12:40 -0800, Steven Michalske wrote: I understand it is important to keep leaded and lead-free process stuff separate to avoid contamination - I'm not sure if that is a legislatory or process requirement though. Solders are alloys, if you change their ratios you change their properties, like melting point and strength. I get that, but I wouldn't have thought using the same iron for both processes would contaminate things enough to cause a problem.. it was that I was wondering about though. PS. Most of my tips are higher temperature types (700'F IIRC), intended for lead free applications, but they work just fine on Leaded. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
I asked a question a couple of days ago about soldering small smt components. Kaimartin posted a video of someone soldering smt components [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk In the video the tip to the soldering iron is a shiny silver and you can see that the solder sticks to the tip. Now before being disabled, almost 20 years ago, I never really soldered many things and now I'm having aides do it so it's pretty much the blind leading the blind. I have a new tip to my iron and it has turned black and more or less reples the solder. The solder just beads up on the tip and drops off. I'm sure we didn't condition the tip right but what's going on when it's black and repels the solder? Is the temp too high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? Thanks References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
The tip is probably just dirty - if there is burnt fiberglass or plastic on the tip, it will be black and unable to hold solder. Cleaning it using a wet sponge will expose the metal and allow the solder to bind again. Andrew - Original Message - I asked a question a couple of days ago about soldering small smt components. Kaimartin posted a video of someone soldering smt components http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk In the video the tip to the soldering iron is a shiny silver and you can see that the solder sticks to the tip. Now before being disabled, almost 20 years ago, I never really soldered many things and now I'm having aides do it so it's pretty much the blind leading the blind. I have a new tip to my iron and it has turned black and more or less reples the solder. The solder just beads up on the tip and drops off. I'm sure we didn't condition the tip right but what's going on when it's black and repels the solder? Is the temp too high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? Thanks ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 16:42 -0500, Rob Butts wrote: I have a new tip to my iron and it has turned black and more or less reples the solder. The solder just beads up on the tip and drops off. I'm sure we didn't condition the tip right but what's going on when it's black and repels the solder? Is the temp too high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? The black is oxidation, probably due to leaving the iron switched on for excessive periods without use, or due to having the iron too hot. Is your iron temperature adjustable? If so, try turning it down a bit. Lead free processes need a higher temperature, so tips will tend to oxidise sooner than on a leaded process. (I personally try to use Leaded solder as much as I can). If it is badly oxidised, you need to clean the tip using some kind of proprietary tip cleaner. I would suggest something like: http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=enq=tip+cleanercid=15376765951279036568ei=g3VMTbbPCKmszAXLzoj-Awsa=titleved=0CA8Q8wIwAjgA#p or http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2428utm_source=DCC_Suppliesutm_medium=site_feedutm_campaign=regular (In particular that last one should be good). You shouldn't use them all the time, just when the tip gets really bad. Between thorough cleaning, you keep the tip nice and shiny with a wet sponge - usually part of the soldering iron stand. Having wiped the tip clean, apply some solder (ideally with a non-aggressive flux) to the tip. Probably others will be able to provide better pointers ;). (And will point out if I have made any errors in mine). Good luck! -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
On 2/4/2011 1:42 PM, Rob Butts wrote: high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? The oxidation on your tip can be polished off with fine sandpaper (400 and higher). It was expected with older irons that the tip would be filed back as it corrodes. This is generally a bad idea today, because your tip metal contaminates the solder alloy, leaving solder composition and properties you can't be sure are stable. A new tip is a joy to use and should hold up well to the fluxes and alloys used today. In a jam, polish the tip you have under running water (so you're not breathing lead dust) and be sure to flux and tin this tip as soon as you get it hot the first time. This routine also works when you get the tip otherwise contaminated (burned plastic, etc.). The common assumption that you need higher temps with lead-free solder may be wrong. These solders don't flow as well, but they also contaminate easily. Hotter temperatures make this second factor a serious concern. If you're doing lead free, you have to have excellent flux or your iron will always be a mess, and you joints unpredictable. Phil Taylor ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
Yes I do have an adjustable iron. The solder does contain lead so what kind of temperature are we talking? It doesn't give a percentage of lead or melting temp on the label. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Phil Taylor [1]p...@plastitar.com wrote: On 2/4/2011 1:42 PM, Rob Butts wrote: high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? The oxidation on your tip can be polished off with fine sandpaper (400 and higher). It was expected with older irons that the tip would be filed back as it corrodes. This is generally a bad idea today, because your tip metal contaminates the solder alloy, leaving solder composition and properties you can't be sure are stable. A new tip is a joy to use and should hold up well to the fluxes and alloys used today. In a jam, polish the tip you have under running water (so you're not breathing lead dust) and be sure to flux and tin this tip as soon as you get it hot the first time. This routine also works when you get the tip otherwise contaminated (burned plastic, etc.). The common assumption that you need higher temps with lead-free solder may be wrong. These solders don't flow as well, but they also contaminate easily. Hotter temperatures make this second factor a serious concern. If you're doing lead free, you have to have excellent flux or your iron will always be a mess, and you joints unpredictable. Phil Taylor ___ geda-user mailing list [2]geda-user@moria.seul.org [3]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:p...@plastitar.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
I found it. 60/40 solder's melting point is about 188 degrees C so I had my iron way too hot; up around 320 degrees C. I'll try turning it down quite a bit. Thanks everyone! On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Rob Butts [1]r.but...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I do have an adjustable iron. The solder does contain lead so what kind of temperature are we talking? It doesn't give a percentage of lead or melting temp on the label. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Phil Taylor [2]p...@plastitar.com wrote: On 2/4/2011 1:42 PM, Rob Butts wrote: high? How can I get it to that shiny silver solder sticking to it condition? The oxidation on your tip can be polished off with fine sandpaper (400 and higher). It was expected with older irons that the tip would be filed back as it corrodes. This is generally a bad idea today, because your tip metal contaminates the solder alloy, leaving solder composition and properties you can't be sure are stable. A new tip is a joy to use and should hold up well to the fluxes and alloys used today. In a jam, polish the tip you have under running water (so you're not breathing lead dust) and be sure to flux and tin this tip as soon as you get it hot the first time. This routine also works when you get the tip otherwise contaminated (burned plastic, etc.). The common assumption that you need higher temps with lead-free solder may be wrong. These solders don't flow as well, but they also contaminate easily. Hotter temperatures make this second factor a serious concern. If you're doing lead free, you have to have excellent flux or your iron will always be a mess, and you joints unpredictable. Phil Taylor ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-user@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:r.but...@gmail.com 2. mailto:p...@plastitar.com 3. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
Some tips about tips. Remember to always store your iron tips with a ball of solder on them, this helps prevent the tip from corroding in storage. Don't wipe the tip before putting it back in the holder, your wipes on the moist sponge should be when you take the tip out of the holder. Again the molten solder on the tip helps keep the tip from oxidizing while hot. Steve On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Rob Butts r.but...@gmail.com wrote: I found it. 60/40 solder's melting point is about 188 degrees C so I had my iron way too hot; up around 320 degrees C. I'll try turning it down quite a bit. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
Remember to always store your iron tips with a ball of solder on them, this helps prevent the tip from corroding in storage. Don't wipe the tip before putting it back in the holder, your wipes on the moist sponge should be when you take the tip out of the holder. Again the molten solder on the tip helps keep the tip from oxidizing while hot. Steve I can't stress how important this is!! Seriously, I have seen soldering iron tips last through heavy usage spending most of the day on - so long as the tip *always* had solder on it. The worst possible thing you can do is to clean the tip on the sponge and then put it back on the stand to sit heating away. I often put fresh solder on the tip before putting it back on the stand to ensure that the tip is completely covered while it is on - and I go to even more trouble to make sure there is plenty of solder covering it before turning the iron off. Before I learned this I had exactly the same trouble you describe. A tip would only last being used a few times before being exactly as you describe. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soldering iron tip turns black
Rob Butts wrote: I asked a question a couple of days ago about soldering small smt components. Kaimartin posted a video of someone soldering smt components [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk In the video the tip to the soldering iron is a shiny silver and you can see that the solder sticks to the tip. At work, I use SN96 lead-free solder. Our irons are routinely set to 800F. These days we use Hakko irons, very nice stuff, and the iron turns off when it's in the cradle. Heat up is really quick too. Tips last me a very long time. Prior to this, we used Weller fire-starters. Sometimes the tips would turn black after a few minutes and there was no amount of cleaning, tinning or whatever that could save them. I suppose some non-brand tips are not so good - but generally they all croaked after just a short amount of time. Although I like the sponges, sometimes people use a steel wool pad instead. I've seen pretty good results with that. The best way to keep the tip clean - turn off the iron when not in use. Keep the temperature lower, if possible. I too have heard about globbing solder onto the tip when not in use, but have not tried it. best luck to you :) gene ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
