[Gendergap] Sue's new blog
http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call me a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art and Sarah Stierch ConsultingHistorical, cultural artistic research advising. -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com mailto:jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch /sarah.stie...@gmail.com mailto:sarah.stie...@gmail.com/* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com mailto:sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call /me/ a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting /Historical, cultural artistic research advising./ -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org http://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: ** Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post. Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics. But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on Foundation-L! I've been following it. -Sarah On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: ** Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
Would you like to elaborate? Ryan Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote: I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post. Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there. _ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./ On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com mailto:sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics. But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on Foundation-L! I've been following it. -Sarah On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt mailto:beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./ On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org mailto:rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com mailto:jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch /sarah.stie...@gmail.com mailto:sarah.stie...@gmail.com/* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com mailto:sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call /me/ a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia
