Re: [Gendergap] LGBTIQ Re: LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread Michelle Gallaway 
'Queer' fits quite nicely under the 'G' part, and I always despair a little
when I see the 'I' and 'T' lumped in with the 'L', 'G' and 'B' as if
they're the same thing.

Basically, with this alphabet soup, you're going to offend someone always
no matter what you do.


On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM,  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> thanks, why has the name been limited to LGBT?
> in my opinion (and I see this nicely done in Spanish-speaking communities)
> we need LGBTIQ
> which means: plus intersexual plus queer
>
> cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 22:30:02 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> > I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been
> > setup. For the time being, it is being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org.
> >
> > http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt
> >
> > The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and
> > partnership work, increasing the coverage of LGBT history, issues and
> > culture, and any other issues that specifically affect LGBT editors.
> >
> > You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Morris
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
> thanks & cheers,
> Claudia
> koltzenb...@w4w.net
>
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
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Re: [Gendergap] recognition of gender gap*s* (in the plural) Re: LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread Tom Morris 
On Monday, 2 July 2012 at 06:24, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:
> Hi Tom, hi @all
>  
> > Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
>  
> since we are addressing not only one gender gap but, seemingly quite a few, 
> including those that come alonf
> the lines of what has come to be called sexual orientarion, I have a question 
> about the creation process of
> the new list. I recently heard elsewhere that
>  
> it was difficult to bring WF to "allow" the list to be created in the frame 
> of lists.wikimedia.org (http://lists.wikimedia.org)?
> how come?




You can see the discussion that led to the creation of the mailing list here:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37888

I disagreed rather strongly with the suggestion made that two of the proposed 
list administrators (Varnent and Fae) would have a "POV"*, but agreed to be a 
list admin instead.

Eventually, there was not really any "difficulty", just confusion and 
miscommunication. All's well that ends well.

I'm not sure I agree that LGBT is another gender gap. The point of the list 
isn't that it's dealing with a clear need to increase participation like 
gendergap is. It's based on two things: dealing with problematic editor 
interaction issues if and when they occur and trying to increase outreach to 
LGBT communities and organisations – sort of like GLAM: there are historical 
and cultural organisations Wikimedians can work with to counter systemic bias 
etc. (As with women's history, LGBT history is often written out of the 
literature, and thus out of Wikipedia.)

There's obviously some overlap given that gender, gender identity and sexual 
orientation are all bound together, but I wouldn't otherwise want to draw 
comparisons with what gendergap is doing and what the LGBT list is doing.

* To quote Lady Gaga: if I have a POV or a COI, I was born that way.

--  
Tom Morris




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Re: [Gendergap] LGBTIQ Re: LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread koltzenburg 
ah, thanks, Michelle,

so it seems you and me see different gaps in different places :-) interesting, 
let's see what might emerge in 
contributions by others: everyone sees different gender gaps, I guess,

so where is the gap for you @all?
and where the possible bridges?

thanks
Claudia

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:33:52 +1000, Michelle Gallaway wrote
> 'Queer' fits quite nicely under the 'G' part, and I always despair a little
> when I see the 'I' and 'T' lumped in with the 'L', 'G' and 'B' as if
> they're the same thing.
> 
> Basically, with this alphabet soup, you're going to offend someone always
> no matter what you do.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM,  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > thanks, why has the name been limited to LGBT?
> > in my opinion (and I see this nicely done in Spanish-speaking communities)
> > we need LGBTIQ
> > which means: plus intersexual plus queer
> >
> > cheers
> > Claudia
> >
> > On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 22:30:02 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> > > I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been
> > > setup. For the time being, it is being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org.
> > >
> > > http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt
> > >
> > > The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and
> > > partnership work, increasing the coverage of LGBT history, issues and
> > > culture, and any other issues that specifically affect LGBT editors.
> > >
> > > You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tom Morris
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Gendergap mailing list
> > > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
> >
> > thanks & cheers,
> > Claudia
> > koltzenb...@w4w.net
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >


thanks & cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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Re: [Gendergap] recognition of gender gap*s* (in the plural) Re: LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread Ryan Kaldari 
Just to clarify, Phillipe expressed concern that there were only 4 
people listed as potential participants. The main objection was from 
MZMcBride (who is not associated with the WMF), who expressed concern 
that the list would be used for POV-pushing. Subsequently, Sébastien 
Santoro and two WMF staff members offered to help moderate the list to 
insure it would be neutral, and Varnent clarified that there were 
several other people interested in the list. Phillipe withdrew his 
objection and the list was created forthwith. Of course since this all 
transpired over Bugzilla, it took a week to play out, which is longer 
than normal, but I'm not sure it's fair to say that it was "difficult to 
bring WF to allow the list to be created".


Ryan Kaldari

On 7/1/12 10:24 PM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:

Hi Tom, hi @all


Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created

since we are addressing not only one gender gap but, seemingly quite a few, 
including those that come alonf
the lines of what has come to be called sexual orientarion, I have a question 
about the creation process of
the new list. I recently heard elsewhere that

it was difficult to bring WF to "allow" the list to be created in the frame of 
lists.wikimedia.org?
how come?

thanks
Claudia

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 00:09:19 +0100, Tom Morris wrote

On Sunday, 1 July 2012 at 22:30, Tom Morris wrote:

I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been setup. 
For the time being, it is

being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org (http://lists.wikiqueer.org).

http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt

The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and partnership 
work, increasing the coverage

of LGBT history, issues and culture, and any other issues that specifically 
affect LGBT editors.

You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.

A barely discernible amount of time after Gregory launched it on the
WikiQueer servers, Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
on lists.wikimedia.org instead.

Please feel free to join here instead:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/lgbt

Sorry about the confusion.

--
Tom Morris


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thanks & cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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Re: [Gendergap] recognition of gender gap*s* (in the plural) Re: LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread koltzenburg 
thanks, Ryan

so this seems clear now: there may be different kinds of difficulties in a list 
creation process and all of these 
are now solved as regards the new lgbt list, is that it?

cheers
Claudia

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:51:57 -0700, Ryan Kaldari wrote
> Just to clarify, Phillipe expressed concern that there were only 4 
> people listed as potential participants. The main objection was from 
> MZMcBride (who is not associated with the WMF), who expressed concern 
> that the list would be used for POV-pushing. Subsequently, Sébastien 
> Santoro and two WMF staff members offered to help moderate the list to 
> insure it would be neutral, and Varnent clarified that there were 
> several other people interested in the list. Phillipe withdrew his 
> objection and the list was created forthwith. Of course since this all 
> transpired over Bugzilla, it took a week to play out, which is longer 
> than normal, but I'm not sure it's fair to say that it was "difficult to 
> bring WF to allow the list to be created".
> 
> Ryan Kaldari
> 
> On 7/1/12 10:24 PM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:
> > Hi Tom, hi @all
> >
> >> Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
> > since we are addressing not only one gender gap but, seemingly quite a few, 
> > including those that come 
alonf
> > the lines of what has come to be called sexual orientarion, I have a 
> > question about the creation process 
of
> > the new list. I recently heard elsewhere that
> >
> > it was difficult to bring WF to "allow" the list to be created in the frame 
> > of lists.wikimedia.org?
> > how come?
> >
> > thanks
> > Claudia
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 00:09:19 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> >> On Sunday, 1 July 2012 at 22:30, Tom Morris wrote:
> >>> I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been 
> >>> setup. For the time being, 
it is
> > being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org (http://lists.wikiqueer.org).
> >>> http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt
> >>>
> >>> The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and 
> >>> partnership work, increasing the 
coverage
> > of LGBT history, issues and culture, and any other issues that specifically 
> > affect LGBT editors.
> >>> You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.
> >> A barely discernible amount of time after Gregory launched it on the
> >> WikiQueer servers, Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
> >> on lists.wikimedia.org instead.
> >>
> >> Please feel free to join here instead:
> >>
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/lgbt
> >>
> >> Sorry about the confusion.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Tom Morris
> >> 
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Gendergap mailing list
> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
> > thanks & cheers,
> > Claudia
> > koltzenb...@w4w.net
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap


thanks & cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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Re: [Gendergap] LGBT mailing list

2012-07-02 Thread Sarah Stierch 
Thanks for starting this list and for letting us know Tom.

Joining now,

Sarah

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Tom Morris  wrote:

> On Sunday, 1 July 2012 at 22:30, Tom Morris wrote:
> > I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been
> setup. For the time being, it is being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org (
> http://lists.wikiqueer.org).
> >
> > http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt
> >
> > The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and
> partnership work, increasing the coverage of LGBT history, issues and
> culture, and any other issues that specifically affect LGBT editors.
> >
> > You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.
>
> A barely discernible amount of time after Gregory launched it on the
> WikiQueer servers, Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
> on lists.wikimedia.org instead.
>
> Please feel free to join here instead:
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/lgbt
>
> Sorry about the confusion.
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> 
>
>
>
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> Gendergap mailing list
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>



-- 
-- 
*Sarah Stierch*
*Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
>>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
>>today
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