Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Asaf Bartov]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Jeremy Baron  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 08:43, Gillian White 
> wrote:
> > I have reformatted my comments about training so they are less a report
> and
> > more of a guideline, added some additional material and posted it here
> > http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_training_adults
> > The idea was to make it useful as a reference.
>
> See also http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/TAO (the swiss chapter and
> maybe another are working on that project)
>

Yes, Wikimedia Deutschland is also part of the TAO consortium, along with
multiple universities and other non-profits.

   A.
-- 
Asaf Bartov 
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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 08:43, Gillian White  wrote:
> I have reformatted my comments about training so they are less a report and
> more of a guideline, added some additional material and posted it here
> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_training_adults
> The idea was to make it useful as a reference.

See also http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/TAO (the swiss chapter and
maybe another are working on that project)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Gillian White]

On 6 April 2012 17:57, Gillian White  wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I have reformatted my comments about training so they are less a report and
more of a guideline, added some additional material and posted it here
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_training_adults
The idea was to make it useful as a reference.

Gillian
[[Whiteghost.ink]]

On 5 April 2012 01:46, Carol Moore DC  wrote:

>  I was wondering if there is a web page I can link to with your comments
> for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Workshop_for_Women
>
> I can link to the newsletter but it only mentions the workshop was all
> women. Thanks.
>
> PS Love the Roo and other photos!
>
> On 4/4/2012 10:58 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
>
> .
>
> I know Carol Moore has been gathering documentation about training [1] and
> I think this would be a good addition for that!
>
> Sarah
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Workshop
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Carol Moore DC]

I was wondering if there is a web page I can link to with your comments 
for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Workshop_for_Women


I can link to the newsletter but it only mentions the workshop was all 
women. Thanks.


PS Love the Roo and other photos!

On 4/4/2012 10:58 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:


.
I know Carol Moore has been gathering documentation about training [1] 
and I think this would be a good addition for that!


Sarah

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Workshop




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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Sarah Stierch]

On 4/4/12 3:47 AM, Gillian White wrote:


Hello all,


Following on from recent WP editing workshops in Queensland (see/This 
Month in GLAM/ 
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2012/Contents/Australia_and_New_Zealand_report), 
I wanted to write about it before I forgot.  I am posting here because 
the workshop participants were women and leading the sessions brought 
to mind my earlier experience gained over many years of teaching and 
training adults.





Hi Gillian! As always, thanks for your great insight. As someone who 
works at a GLAM and is in a museum studies program (an educational 
program that is 80% women around the country), I've been quite familiar 
with the "opposite" gender gap - more women than men. I'm really really 
glad you and Liam were able to travel to Queensland (enjoyed his photo 
blog!) and even happier that you shared your experiences with us. But, 
many of the reasons you cited are also the struggles on getting women 
involved in from those arenas - the hierarchy of the cultural makeup, 
privacy, etc. So these tips and thoughts are really valuable.


I know Carol Moore has been gathering documentation about training [1] 
and I think this would be a good addition for that!


Sarah

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Workshop


*Sarah Stierch*
*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today 
<<
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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Gillian,

thanks for the write-up. I enjoyed reading it. I don't have anything particular
to comment about it unfortunately.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 17:47:45 +1000
Gillian White  wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> 
> Following on from recent WP editing workshops in Queensland (see* This
> Month in GLAM*
> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2012/Contents/Australia_and_New_Zealand_report),
> I wanted to write about it before I forgot.  I am posting here because the
> workshop participants were women and leading the sessions brought to mind
> my earlier experience gained over many years of teaching and training
> adults.
> 
[SNIP]

-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/

The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT
code.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[elisabeth bauer]

2012/4/4 Gillian White :

 [...]
> Tip: Given them a chance to practise and give them feedback.
>
> If you have read this far, thanks!

Thank _you_ for the really helpful and insightful posting. *forwarding
it to some people who can make good use of it*

greetings,
elian

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[Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Gillian White]

Hello all,


Following on from recent WP editing workshops in Queensland (see* This
Month in GLAM*
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2012/Contents/Australia_and_New_Zealand_report),
I wanted to write about it before I forgot.  I am posting here because the
workshop participants were women and leading the sessions brought to mind
my earlier experience gained over many years of teaching and training
adults.


So here are some thoughts about training and gender, followed by some
thoughts about training in general. I wrote this in case it helps anyone
involved in training adults, especially women, who are not students in a
formal educational environment. There are two bases for these comments –
the first is that training is different from making a presentation (newbie
trainers often fall into the trap of just talking as if to an audience);
and the second is that women as trainees often have different needs (this
was evident in the recent workshops). You can already see this is a long
post. My apologies. Stop reading here if training is not something you will
ever do. If there is a better place to put this, please let me know. I am
happy to be (politely) advised where to go. :)


*Context*


The recent training days that Wittylama and I ran for newbies in outback
Queensland consisted entirely of female participants (except for one man
who joined in at the last minute after finding out what was happening).
Ninety per cent of them were mature age and I think none had undertaken
tertiary studies. Therefore, somewhat unexpectedly, these training days
became activities that made their own tiny contribution to reducing the
gender gap. In many ways, they were a case study for adult learning in
general and female learning in particular. The sessions provided an
opportunity to observe the trainees’ attitudes and reactions to editing WP.
Some of those observations are here – in some cases they reinforce what has
been previously noted about women and Wikipedia; in others, they refute it.


*Technology*


Contrary to what you might expect, the participants seemed unworried by the
fact that this was a computer-mediated activity. No one seemed daunted by
“the internet” or the information technology. They recognised and accepted
it; thence it was simply a case of using it to get the intended results.


*Perceptions of participation in WP*


One of the interesting things was the reaction to our question: “what
percentage of Wikipedia editors do you think are female?” The answer was
revealing. They guessed it must be from 60% to 80%. The question was asked
just after WP and its sister projects had been introduced – at a point when
the effort, focus, level of detail and commitment needed to contribute
effectively were becoming evident. My impression was that being a
Wikipedian struck them as a quintessentially female activity: unpaid,
detailed, ongoing, educational, done for the good of others. They seemed to
recognise and identify with this constellation of requirements and were
surprised, even a little sceptical, when we said that boys and men had done
most of it. Personally, I think this insight can be interpreted in two
different ways. On the one hand, these women acknowledged WP as worthwhile
and something that they could do. On the other hand, they could see it as
yet another call on their time, demanding effort that would likely go
largely unvalued.


The lesson for training is that the motivational factor needs to be
explicit. That is, in the middle of learning something new, it helps to
state some of the benefits that may seem to be invisible to learners at
that moment: for example, that this is a way of sharing knowledge; that it
is useful and many regard it as fun; that there is a community of willing
helpers. Many of the trainees were librarians or local tourism office
workers, so these are motivations to which they could relate.  At this
point, of course, we crossed our fingers and hoped that their “first
contact” with the WP community (or even second or third contact) would not
be with its combativeness.


*Tip:* Remind trainees what they can get out of being a WP editor.


*Women opt for training*


It was not a complete surprise to me that the people who came to the
training were women. Women like training, perhaps because they often think
they do not yet know enough and need more skills. The result is that more
women will volunteer for training and more men will contribute without it.
For stereotypical support of this argument, consider the oft-quoted idea
that men will only “read the manual” as a last resort. On this topic, I am
amused to find that this article exists on the English WP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM


 

*Tip*: Trainees seek competency, so training must work to deliver it.


*Reluctance and timidity*


We did notice that many in the group were reluctant to try editing
publicly, that is, in front of the rest of the group. Many of the