Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
Noel There is a vote in progress on a new committer right now. Does that count? I'm certainly keen on doing integration between Synapse and Tuscany and as soon as I get a minute I will do it. I agree that cross-fertilization is good. Paul On 10/21/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Fremantle wrote: Wouldn't the community be healthier if it focused some effort on bringing in independent committers? Its my understanding that the project is very focussed on encouraging new committers and that this is having results. Where? It seems to me that if it were having results, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am happy to hear that Tuscany is open to new developers, but if we want a base level of diversity, we need to actually have those new developers, not just be open to them. Cross-fertilization between projects (Tuscany, Ode, CXF, Synapse, ServiceMix, et al) is one way to improve diversity, as well as improve synergies and integration. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paul Fremantle Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
The recent Tuscany 1.0 release included Ode integration with an implementation.bpel component type. We also have experimental support for integration with Geronimo. In the last 2 months, 3 new committers have been added, one is in progress as Paul has said, and one is being discussed. Of these 5 people, one is IBM day job (me), one is IBM non-day-job, and 3 are non-IBM. I think this clearly shows that Tuscany is focusing effort on bringing in new committers to increase diversity, and on cross-fertilizing with other projects. Simon Paul Fremantle wrote: Noel There is a vote in progress on a new committer right now. Does that count? I'm certainly keen on doing integration between Synapse and Tuscany and as soon as I get a minute I will do it. I agree that cross-fertilization is good. Paul On 10/21/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Fremantle wrote: Wouldn't the community be healthier if it focused some effort on bringing in independent committers? Its my understanding that the project is very focussed on encouraging new committers and that this is having results. Where? It seems to me that if it were having results, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am happy to hear that Tuscany is open to new developers, but if we want a base level of diversity, we need to actually have those new developers, not just be open to them. Cross-fertilization between projects (Tuscany, Ode, CXF, Synapse, ServiceMix, et al) is one way to improve diversity, as well as improve synergies and integration. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On 10/19/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Fremantle wrote: I think Tuscany is ready to graduate because: 1) I understand it to have met the base requirements of the IPMC in terms of independent committers Apparently a bare minimum, with very little active work from independents? If the bare minimum is the 3 legally independent committers as defined in the Incubator policy documents then Tuscany has more than the bare minimum - and thats active committers. After two years in Incubation there are inactive committers but we've been ignoring those for these graduation discussions. ...ant
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On 10/20/07, Bertrand Delacretaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/20/07, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...This is the Tuscany community vote result thread which was only on the tuscany-dev list but seems to have inadvertently been replied to to the general@ list BTW, that message says ...given the muddied waters how about waiting a little before restarting the vote?... Is that what's happening now, i.e. does the Tuscany PPMC consider this IPMC vote thread cancelled? Yes, i'd posted to the thread earlier saying i'd restart it once the proposal words had been settle on, but looks like we'll need to wait now. I'll post to the vote thread now to make this clear. ...ant
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On 10/12/07, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Tuscany podling respectfully requests the Incubator to consider its graduation to a Top Level Project. While incubating Tuscany has made 14(!) releases, voted in 19 new committers, survived conflicts, formed its PPMC, learned how to govern itself, resolved licensing issues and an active community continues to grow around Tuscany. The community vote for graduation can be found on the Tuscany dev list at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg24675.html We have prepared the resolution below to be presented for consideration at the upcoming Board meeting. We invite everyone to vote to approve this proposal. Many thanks, ...ant Establish the Apache Tuscany project: WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of open-source software that simplifies the development and deployment of service oriented applications and provides a managed service-oriented runtime based on the standards defined by the OASIS OpenCSA group, for distribution at no charge to the public. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC), to be known as the Apache Tuscany Project, be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Tuscany Project be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to Apache Tuscany; and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Apache Tuscany be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache Tuscany Project, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache Tuscany Project; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Tuscany Project: Adriano Crestaniadrianocrestani at apache dot org Andrew Borley ajborley at apache dot org Andy Grove agrove at apache dot org ant elder antelder at apache dot org Brady Johnson bjohnson at apache dot org Frank Budinsky frankb at apache dot org Ignacio Silva-Lepe isilval at apache dot org Jean-Sebastien Delfino jsdelfino at apache dot org kelvin goodson kelvingoodson at apache dot org Luciano Resende lresende at apache dot org Mike Edwards edwardsmj at apache dot org Pete Robbinsrobbinspg at apache dot org Raymond Feng rfeng at apache dot org Simon Laws slaws at apache dot org Simon Nash nash at apache dot org Venkata Krishnan svkrish at apache dot org NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Ant Elder be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Tuscany, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Tuscany Project be and hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator Tuscany podling; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Incubator Tuscany podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator Project are hereafter discharged. Thanks to everyone who's commented on this thread. Looks like we've come up with words that people are happy with but we shall hold off restarting the vote till all the discussions around minimum diversity requirements reach more consensus. The latest words are: ...establish a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of open-source software for distribution at no charge to the public, that simplifies the development, deployment and management of distributed applications built as compositions of service components. These components may be implemented with a range of technologies and connected using a variety of communication protocols. This software will implement relevant open standards including, but not limited to, the SCA and SDO standards
RE: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
Ant Elder wrote: Apparently a bare minimum, with very little active work from independents? If the bare minimum is the 3 legally independent committers as defined in the Incubator policy documents then Tuscany has more than the bare minimum - and thats active committers. Can you compare those figures with Jeremy's statment: at this time there are only 2 committers active[2] who don't work for that organization, compared to 11 who do. Neither of the two independents are active in the core project areas of Java SCA or SDO (they are committing to the C++ implementation or to DAS). and Simon Nash's: In the last 2 months, 3 new committers have been added, one is in progress as Paul has said, and one is being discussed. Of these 5 people, one is IBM day job (me), one is IBM non-day-job, and 3 are non-IBM. Simon seems to say three non-IBM and one IBM as a hobby, not day job. But two of the five aren't committers *yet*. Jeremy says two indepdendents. You're saying more than three. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On 10/21/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ant Elder wrote: Apparently a bare minimum, with very little active work from independents? If the bare minimum is the 3 legally independent committers as defined in the Incubator policy documents then Tuscany has more than the bare minimum - and thats active committers. Can you compare those figures with Jeremy's statment: at this time there are only 2 committers active[2] who don't work for that organization, compared to 11 who do. Neither of the two independents are active in the core project areas of Java SCA or SDO (they are committing to the C++ implementation or to DAS). and Simon Nash's: In the last 2 months, 3 new committers have been added, one is in progress as Paul has said, and one is being discussed. Of these 5 people, one is IBM day job (me), one is IBM non-day-job, and 3 are non-IBM. Simon seems to say three non-IBM and one IBM as a hobby, not day job. But two of the five aren't committers *yet*. Jeremy says two indepdendents. You're saying more than three. I think the breakdown is: current active committers are from IBM, RougeWave and two independents. I'm not sure exactly who does how many hours for a day job but i _think_ at least 3 of those IBM committers don't participate at all for their day jobs. Tuscany has 11 inactive committers (not contributed for months), from BEA, IBM, IONA and Redhat and two independents, I don't know if any of those will contribute again, last time i spoke to one of them they said they would but they were busy on other things just now. There's two more new people being voted on presently, and the STATUS file [1] shows new committers have been getting added every month or two over most of the incubation. So from that Tuscany does more than meet the minimum requirement of at least 3 legally independent committers. I've not seen this detail on diversity and active versus inactive committers in other graduations - how does Tuscany compare with other previously graduating poddlings? ...ant [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/tuscany/STATUS
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:52 AM, ant elder wrote: On 10/21/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ant Elder wrote: Apparently a bare minimum, with very little active work from independents? If the bare minimum is the 3 legally independent committers as defined in the Incubator policy documents then Tuscany has more than the bare minimum - and thats active committers. Can you compare those figures with Jeremy's statment: at this time there are only 2 committers active[2] who don't work for that organization, compared to 11 who do. Neither of the two independents are active in the core project areas of Java SCA or SDO (they are committing to the C++ implementation or to DAS). and Simon Nash's: In the last 2 months, 3 new committers have been added, one is in progress as Paul has said, and one is being discussed. Of these 5 people, one is IBM day job (me), one is IBM non-day-job, and 3 are non-IBM. Simon seems to say three non-IBM and one IBM as a hobby, not day job. But two of the five aren't committers *yet*. Jeremy says two indepdendents. You're saying more than three. I think the breakdown is: current active committers are from IBM, RougeWave and two independents. I'm not sure exactly who does how many hours for a day job but i _think_ at least 3 of those IBM committers don't participate at all for their day jobs. Tuscany has 11 inactive committers (not contributed for months), from BEA, IBM, IONA and Redhat and two independents, I don't know if any of those will contribute again, last time i spoke to one of them they said they would but they were busy on other things just now. Without getting involved in the rest of the discussions associated with this thread, I do want to clarify one point... About seven months ago, BEA decided to pursue an alternative direction with the other active independents working on SCA at the time when our goals diverged from others in the community. Speaking for BEA, we made it clear on multiple occasions that while we wished Tuscany success, given the divergent interests, we were satisfied with our decision to participate elsewhere. It is unlikely we will revisit this decision in the future. Regards, Jim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Composer Proposal
There didn't seem to be any curfuffle at all in floating the proposal through the incubator. That's a good thing. Both containers are heavily used, both originate from these parts and so it's somewhat fitting they would like to return. I'll put up vote thread later today. On 8 Oct 07, at 9:54 AM 8 Oct 07, peter royal wrote: On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: I am watching http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal with some interest. A couple of items: 1) JAMES uses Phoenix, which is the old name for Plexus yes, Loom was unsuccessful Phoenix fork. iirc, Plexus borrowed concepts from Fortress more, but was mostly an independent implementation 2) What about Apache Excalibur, currently home to the various Avalon modules (framework, components, etc.)? Excalibur can continue on as-is.. iirc, Excalibur had made movements to have some of its components be framework agnostic? If so, they'd run in Composer. (the Composer component model is likely going to be very much like pico's, which just runs with pojo's) -pete -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://fotap.org/~osi Thanks, Jason -- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven jason at sonatype dot com -- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Tuscany as a top level project
On 10/20/07, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Fremantle wrote: Wouldn't the community be healthier if it focused some effort on bringing in independent committers? Its my understanding that the project is very focussed on encouraging new committers and that this is having results. Where? It seems to me that if it were having results, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am happy to hear that Tuscany is open to new developers, but if we want a base level of diversity, we need to actually have those new developers, not just be open to them. Cross-fertilization between projects (Tuscany, Ode, CXF, Synapse, ServiceMix, et al) is one way to improve diversity, as well as improve synergies and integration. My impression is that the current discussion only arises because Tuscany has so many committers. If there were only 3 or 4 of them from a single organization, nobody would be so worried about it, even if they had the bare minimum of 3 independent committers. But they did welcome enough independent committers while being in the incubator and there's actually a second organization supporting the project as well. Attracting a large quantity of independent developers while being in the incubator is pretty hard, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect them to find enough independents to balance all others. Matthieu --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
