Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qpid entered into the incubator November 2006, and has made releases, is in the process of closing down another minor release and well on the way to the next major release, added new committers, and cleaned up Karma prior to graduation vote. At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from its mentors feels that it is ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache i'm a little bit in two minds about this... i have lurked on the list from time-to-time and have been impressed. i think that TLP is the right destination and that QPID will be an good addition one day. but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the IPMC fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really understand how to mentor new independent developers into committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst retaining community spirit? right or wrong, i'm not completely convinced right now... - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from its mentors feels that it is ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the IPMC fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really understand how to mentor new independent developers into committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst retaining community spirit? It's a hard call for me as well. The technical bits are all there, processes followed, paperwork filed, etc. More importantly, the qpid community has been open, receptive to feedback from everyone inside and outside their group, welcoming to new opinions from new people, and respectful of ASF spirit, not just its letter. There are disagreements and debates on various technical matters without hurting the community. That's why I support their graduation. It would have been really nice if one or two more committers from new organizations had been added during the previous few months, but that didn't happen. But I don't think the fact the committers come from a small set of organizations necessarily means there's no diversity. And I don't want to introduce artificial requirements. The are they really ready question is subjective by definition, and it's a good one, but I still vote +1 ;) Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
I would expect to see proof of qpid's ability to grow their committership and build a user community before leaving the incubator. There's no track record of either at the moment. According to incubator-general mail archives, qpid voted in 4 committers since April of 2007. Additionally, those folks don't appear active on the qpid developer list. The 'diversity' question was partially answered, but it's still a concern for me. I imagine it'll be hard to attract new folks to qpid when they're mostly corporate-sponsored, and some of those sponsorships -can't- be transparent to the ASF. They'll probably be able to attract committers, but the new committers will probably come from other corporate sponsors. Scott Deboy COMOTIV SYSTEMS 111 SW Columbia Street Ste. 950 Portland, OR 97201 Telephone: 503.224.7496 Cell: 503.997.1367 Fax:503.222.0185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.comotivsystems.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Yoav Shapira Sent: Fri 3/21/2008 4:52 AM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP] On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from its mentors feels that it is ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the IPMC fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really understand how to mentor new independent developers into committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst retaining community spirit? It's a hard call for me as well. The technical bits are all there, processes followed, paperwork filed, etc. More importantly, the qpid community has been open, receptive to feedback from everyone inside and outside their group, welcoming to new opinions from new people, and respectful of ASF spirit, not just its letter. There are disagreements and debates on various technical matters without hurting the community. That's why I support their graduation. It would have been really nice if one or two more committers from new organizations had been added during the previous few months, but that didn't happen. But I don't think the fact the committers come from a small set of organizations necessarily means there's no diversity. And I don't want to introduce artificial requirements. The are they really ready question is subjective by definition, and it's a good one, but I still vote +1 ;) Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
Yoav I have to say I think you have given a very good analysis. I think that QPid has come a huge way towards Apacheness. Diversity is not as great as it could be but meets the Incubator criteria. I support the QPid graduation because I think that QPid is doing the right things in the right way, and I have offered to join the PPMC to continue offering advice in the future. Paul On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Yoav Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from its mentors feels that it is ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the IPMC fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really understand how to mentor new independent developers into committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst retaining community spirit? It's a hard call for me as well. The technical bits are all there, processes followed, paperwork filed, etc. More importantly, the qpid community has been open, receptive to feedback from everyone inside and outside their group, welcoming to new opinions from new people, and respectful of ASF spirit, not just its letter. There are disagreements and debates on various technical matters without hurting the community. That's why I support their graduation. It would have been really nice if one or two more committers from new organizations had been added during the previous few months, but that didn't happen. But I don't think the fact the committers come from a small set of organizations necessarily means there's no diversity. And I don't want to introduce artificial requirements. The are they really ready question is subjective by definition, and it's a good one, but I still vote +1 ;) Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paul Fremantle Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 Apache Synapse PMC Chair OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Statements from Qpid mentors would help me decide... [WAS Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I agree with Robert, I'd prefer to wait a bit to see the community grow. Yes, it's a subjective call. No, not enough for a -1So my vote would be a -0. thanks, dims Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: | On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Qpid entered into the incubator November 2006, and has made releases, is | in the | process of closing down another minor release and well on the way to the | next | major release, added new committers, and cleaned up Karma prior to | graduation | vote. | | At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from its mentors | feels that | it is ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache | | i'm a little bit in two minds about this... | | i have lurked on the list from time-to-time and have been impressed. i | think that TLP is the right destination and that QPID will be an good | addition one day. | | but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the IPMC | fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really | understand how to mentor new independent developers into committers | and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have learnt how to have | disagreements on technical matters whilst retaining community spirit? | | right or wrong, i'm not completely convinced right now... | | - robert | | - | To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Cygwin) iD8DBQFH48spgNg6eWEDv1kRAlSpAKCX9Oe9YUZgTKpHMiGySeYz2++QsACgxsBU E7OaHaEflqDvVIJXQpCYfzw= =IOZy -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP
I guess I should vote on the official thread ;) On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you in advance for your time and consideration. [ X ] +1 [ ] +0 [ ] -1 Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Apache Qpid Graduation as TLP
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Carl Trieloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you in advance for your time and consideration. [X] +1 [ ] +0 [ ] -1 You never know if you're ready before really trying :) But from what I've seen they're close enough. They seem to mostly know what they're doing and know who to prod when they're not sure, which IMO is what matters. Matthieu The Qpid Community (This vote has been started with the support of our mentors) == WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of open-source software related to distributed messaging, for distribution at no charge to the public. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC), to be known as the Apache Qpid Project, be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to distributed messaging; a multiple language implementation providing daemons and APIs for publish subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns based on the Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and related technologies such as (transaction management, federation, security, management); and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Qpid be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Qpid Project: * Alan Conway * Arnaud Simon * Carl Trieloff * Gordon Sim * John O'Hara * Marnie McCormack * Martin Ritchie * Paul Fremantle * Rajith Attapattu * Robert Greig * Robert Godfrey * Yoav Shapira NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President, Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RESULT] [VOTE] Apache CXF Graduation as TLP
Wow. Hard to tally. Lots of votes. :-) (Also,the list at http://incubator.apache.org/whoweare.html seems slightly out of date. I know gnodet and bsnyder are binding, but they aren't on the list.) 13 +1 IPMC binding: bsnyder, dims, rbdonkin, jstrachan, mdashorst, crussel, kevan, pfremantle, gnodet, npemberton, bdelacretaz, jgenender, jim 7 +1 non-bingind: ffang, ubhole, wjiang, ddiephouse, rattapattu, acabrera, elecharny No other votes. Thus, with 20 +1 votes (13 binding) and no other votes, this vote passes. A major thanks to the entire incubator community for helping us through the process. Can't wait for the next board meeting! :-) Dan On Tuesday 18 March 2008, Daniel Kulp wrote: After 20 months in the incubator, 6 releases complete and 2 more on the way shortly, several new committers, and too much email traffic :-), the Apache CXF community (with support from our mentors) feels that we are ready to graduate to an official top level project at Apache as indicated by the community vote recorded at: http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE--Graduate-Apache-CXF-as-a-top-level-projec t-to15812722.html We would like the resolution attached to this email to be presented to the board for consideration at the next possible board meeting. For additional information, the CXF status file is here: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cxf.html Thank you in advance for your time and consideration. [ ] +1 [ ] +0 [ ] -1 -- Dan (on behalf of the entire Apache CXF team and with permission from the CXF mentors to call this vote.) == Establish the Apache CXF project WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project, to be known as Apache CXF Project, related to a framework for creating, deploying, and consuming services based on SOA design principles for distribution at no charge to the public. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC) is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache CXF PMC be and hereby is charged with the creation and maintenance of Apache CXF; and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Apache CXF be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache CXF PMC, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache CXF PMC; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache CXF PMC: * Ulhas Bhole [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Sean O'Callaghan [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Dan Diephouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Freeman Yue Fang [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Jarek Gawor [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Jeff Genender [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Eoghan Glynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Willem Ning Jiang [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Eric Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Peter Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Daniel Kulp [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Bozhong Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Jervis Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Jim Ma [EMAIL PROTECTED] * James Maode Mao [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Benson Margulies [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Glen Mazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Guillaume Nodet [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Ajay Paibir [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Daniel Kulp be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache CXF, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache CXF Project be and hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator CXF podling; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Incubator CXF podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are hereafter discharged. == - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- J. Daniel Kulp Principal Engineer, IONA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dankulp.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
