Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Hi, Am 11.06.2011 06:17, schrieb Keith Curtis: I think LibreOffice people are quiet for various reasons: Everyone here votes on his own behalf, for his own reasons and at the time he feels to be the right time. There is currently no need to vote on anybody's behalf (really - nobody here on this list in the position to vote on my behalf, no matter if I would cast the same vote or not). And there is also no need to elaborate other people's reasons. We had lots of discussions and the election campain is over. Please let people vote and give reasons for their very own vote. André PS.: you may have noticed that there already are votes from accepted TDF members. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
-1 (non-binding) Within the discussion several reasons that might support a -1 vote were named, many have been addressed or may be addresed by the podling. I still feel obligated to vote -1 because (even if the podling advances to a Apache TLP) this will be the end of OpenOffice.org as it is seen within the market. Actually OpenOffice.org is an application with a user base of 50Mio to 100Mio users. And these users have their hands on the software day by day - so this is really different from zlib, which hardly any of it's users would know by name. Many administrations and companies have choosen OpenOffice.org as their office suite (we are speaking of installation from 10 up to 50k and more seats). There is a market around OpenOffice.org (books, support offerings, trainings, software integrations with mid-range ERP systems, even SAP is aware of the fact that OOo exists and had to deliver some ways of integration). All this market is about *OpenOffice.org* it is *not* about derivates. Although Rob tried to give the impression that there are oh so many OOo derivates, the reality is, that the Office marked is ~89% MSO, 10% OOo and 1% for all the others. Even the better known derivates of OOo (StarOffice and Symphony) are far behind the visibility of the OpenOffice.org brand. Rob did also an interesting analysis, that there is no need to come up quite fast with a new version of OOo, because there has been almost a year between the previous versions. While the fact is true, my resumee is different. During the last two years, we already saw the OOo marked in an uncertain situation - planned versions had been delayed for several reasons, nobody was able to answer, what the future would bring. Users and adopters became anxious. OpenOffice.org 3.4 was scheduled for May/June 2011 - yet another delay will not help the marked to prosper. Instead the OOo marked will go from stagnation to shrink. Even if the podling will be able to produce a new version quite soon, it will be very different from the software we currently know as OpenOffice.org (at least from what I understand to be Apache's guidelines for software distribution). Integration to third party components needs to be rewritten or dropped - even simple things like preinstalled dictionaries (sounds really a no-brainer to a developer) are crucial for the marked that the current OOo addresses. So to me, there is an extremely high risk that the Apache project will not fullfill the expectations of the current OOo user base. Although fully in line with the Apache guidelines and philosophy, it might fail, because 99.99% of the users are not interested in policy and guidelines - they just are interested in what they get (and if it is not Coke it is no Cola). I hope, this will not reflect to Apache's reputation after all. All that said, I perfectly know that the OOo project cannot continue like it did the last ten years, so something needs to change. And although I am opposed to the project here at Apache I owe respect to anyone who is going to drive this and will be around to give input if needed. regards, André PS.: As I did not yet send an introduction to the list, some information - Working with Office Suites since 1988 - Joined the OOo project in 2002, starting with user support and documentations - Co-Lead at the Germanophone project (having a great time with Manfred and felt very sad when he left) - later Project lead for Quality assurance (quite active in bug handling and one of the first non-Sunnies to work on the scripts for test automation) - elected Member of the OOo Community Council for several years (e.g. reworking the CC's bylaws for it's current version) - coordinating the German Localization efforts (and doing about 50% of the UI translations since OOo 3.0) - representing OOo and giving talks at at least 4 public events per year (like CEBit, LinuxTag, LinuxDay, OOoCon) - founding member, member of the initial board and now member of the supervisory board of FrODev (former OOoDeV) - founding member of The Document Foundation, member of the interim Steering Committe, member of the Membership Committee Although my premise when entering OOo was that I will do anything but coding (as I do enough coding during my day job) there are ~20 Lines of code in OOo written by me :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo Monetary Donations
Hi Simon, Am 09.06.2011 00:14, schrieb Simon Phipps: Presumably it would also be possible to have a group outside ASF called eg Friends of Open Office ( FOO) that raised money and put it to code development or marketing or whatever. Not saying that is the best way just its a possibility. Doesn't one of those already exist? I know, you referre to FroDeV here - but in fact many of such entities exist. E.g. TeamOOo (the primary association for funds handling at the OOo project), PLIO in Italy, there are associations France, afaik in Japan and other countries as well to support the OpenOffice.org Community. Not counted the many associations that have ODF focus. Regarding FrODev - Florian mentioned this every now and then - it is the interim entity to handle donations and legal assets for TDF. The association has been established the German Community around OOo (now we speak about supporting Free Office Suites in Germany) - and for several reasons we like (and have) to keep it that way. regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Upstream/Downstream (was OpenOffice LibreOffice)
Hi, can we please just end this futile discussion? I agree, that water flows one direction only. But there needs to be water first to flow in any direction. If there will be enough to establish a flow, can only be seen, once the podling is in place. The risk estimation (will the podling run dry?) is up to Apache. regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [tdf-discuss] OpenOffice.org Summit Proposal
Hi, I almost forgot about that, as it is not a summit but may be the earliest date for a meeting. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/QAWochenende2011 So if some of you live rather close to Essen/Germany you may join us there. It would be helpfull to understand / speak German, as it is a meeting of the German community members. We used to have this as annual meeting with focus on QA and localization for some years now. But it is always a nice event to get to know each other, have barbecue, pizza and beer (or whatever you like ;) ) If you like to join, please notify Jacqueline and prefferable disc...@de.libreoffice.org. There are still some places left to stay overnight (but please be aware the we only have double rooms). regards, André PS.: - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A little OOo history
Hi, Am 07.06.2011 17:51, schrieb Manfred A. Reiter: In Switzerland, there is the brand name Open Office as well. - So be careful. ;-) Last time I checked (~2 years ago) it was not registered anymore. The name itself is still in use. The current BACHER EDV Beratung (in Liechtenstein) took over the owner of the brand name in 2006 and is now using OpenOffice to describe the company's services (but it's not registered). regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [OO.o] updated mailing lists in proposal
Hi, Am 07.06.2011 20:30, schrieb Donald Whytock: On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: According to Markmail (http://openoffice.markmail.org/) the following 37 openoffice.org mailing lists received more than 365 messages in 2010: Based on the volume here over the last week, how many of those lists got all 365 messages in one day? although there are mailing lists with typical peaks at OOo (qa an release lists short before release, user lists short after relase) as well as some with only seasonal use (conference planning lists) none of the lists would have such extreme peaks as you see here. It is only that you have at a rather low-traffic apache list guests who are used to discuss on high-traffic lists. And discussion is often with lots of emotion (but seems to clam down). regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice.org Summit Proposal
Hi, Am 06.06.2011 21:07, schrieb Sophie Gautier: Hi, On 06/06/2011 21:21, Alexandro Colorado wrote: [...] Thinking LO/OOo is a more desktop oriented app, would make sense to have some participation. Too bad this time the outreach was as strong as the first year with Mozilla. No difficult for several of us to attend and be there, will be pleased to meet our friends from the other projects, as usual. Berlin is not that far for me - so even if I would not be visiting the desktop summit, it's quite easy for me to join for an evening (or a weekend). regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: TDF/LO, what is the art of the possible?
Hi Rob, I don't want to leave this unanswered, although I very likely cannot provide the answers you like to get ... (steering-discuss in cc, so that other SC memebers might agree or disagree) Am 04.06.2011 02:09, schrieb robert_w...@us.ibm.com: If someone on the list from TDF is authorized to answer this (or can get such authorization), I'd appreciate an official stance on the following questions. This would help us understand what room there is for negotiation and what is not worth discussing at all. In your questionary, the questions to me seem to be of two kinds: 1) questions that are targeted to individuals actions (sign Apache CLA, contribute code to Apache as well as to TDF ...) 2) fundamental questions on TDF (join Apache and consolidate there, choose a name for the product ...) Regarding 1) - those questions need to go to the individuals. I (no one) can answer this on their behalf. What I can do is to state, that such discussion are already ongoing on one or the other list at TDF, but individuals do what individuals like to do - one choose this way, one the other. Regarding 2) - Even if you suggest in a later mail that TDF is young, small and should therefore be flexible in taking decisions - I feel not authorized to give an answer. And I would veto if the SC would be pressed for such a statement (in any case). We curently count close to 100 project members according to our bylaws (and we are verifying some more applications). Substantial questions on what TDF should do (as an organization) should be discussed by those members at large. I would even suggest to have a vote by our community members - but at the moment I do not feel that it is the correct time to go this way. btw. I very much share William's points in the later mails. regards, André For willing to consider it, I mean in the context of a negotiation where there is some give and take. I'm not asking if you're willing to do this for nothing. I just want to understand what are the deal breakers and where we should be focusing discussions. I'm not interested in debating these questions in this thread, aside from clarifications. We're debating these issues in other threads. I'm just trying to see if we can agree on which of these directions, if any, is likely to be fruitful and which ones, if any, are fundamentally impossible for TDF/LO. I think we've given straightforward answers on where ASF is flexible and where it cannot budge. I'd welcome similar clarity from TDF/LO, in the spirit of moving forward these discussions. Regards, -Rob 1) Require Apache 2.0 licence for future contributions to LO, possibly in addition with other compatible licenses. a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 2) Encourage and facilitate TDF members signing an Apache CLA on their past LO contributions a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 3) Encourage and facilitate TDF members contributing their work to both Apache and TDF under respective licenses a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 4) Join Apache and do the core development work there, with LibreOffice being a downstream consumer of the core, collaborating closely with Apache via patches, defect reports, etc. a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 5) Join Apache and consolidate all development there, under the name OpenOffice a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 6) Join Apache and consolidate all development there, under the name LibreOffice. a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it 7) Join Apache and consolidate all development there, under the name ODF Suite. a) Not willing to consider it b) Willing to consider it - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice: were are we now?
Hi, Am 05.06.2011 20:24, schrieb Simon Phipps: I'm more interested in the list of files from the Hg repository that are NOT in that list. I gotta believe it is non-zero, so what are they, and how much of a problem will that be? I've been discussing this privately with some folk, and while we've not done an exhaustive analysis between us we're fairly sure that list doesn't include any of the (numerous) work-in-progress branches that are not merged into the actual release. I have no deep knowledge of the OOo repository, but at least the are that I worked on the last couple of years seems to be missing: translation. There should be a bunch of .sdf files covering some 500k words in ~100 languages. Would be a pity if it was forgotten for OOo, as the translation servers at OOo are down for quite a while now and nobody is answering any request on bringing them up again. Furtheremore all the artwork (icons, branding elements) seem to be missing. I'd expect some .png, .gif or .ico files in the list. regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
