Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Hi Dave, I apologize if the answer you got to your question about VXQuery usage to be clueless and abstract. Since we did not see any feedback to the response to your question, the conclusion was that you were satisfied with the answer. The VXQuery team would have and still would appreciate any constructive ideas you might have that can help the project both from a technical as well as a process point of view. Thanks, Vinayak On 9/6/13 4:43 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: Hi Ant, I was the shepherd on VXQuery in their last reporting period. I really don't feel like anything is really happening in the project, at least not anywhere that is visible. I even asked a technical question about one of their suggested use cases - organize and accessing Edgar documents. A source I have actually worked with. Company data is something I've been around all my life and I am in my 50s. I grew up around company data since my father was a Finance Professor at the University of Chicago and one of the founders of CRSP. My development career also involves managing and analyzing company data. Their answer was not clueful and very abstract. They have an idea for a query engine without any idea how to get data into the engine. Anyone with a clue would choose to use Apache Solr, Lucene, or something in the Hadoop cluster of projects over VXQuery. However if you think that a viable community and project is happening give it a try. But you should also look back to over a year ago when they got another chance. How many another chances and mentor reboots should we give a project? Regards, Dave On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, ant elder wrote: I don't see the need or point in being so draconian with the poddling especially given its history, so if you really do want to initiate retirement discussions if they've not released by their next report (which is just a few weeks away right?) I'll be voting against it and will volunteer to be a mentor to help try to keep them alive if they want to keep trying. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:01 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. Regardless, they will have to overcome their challenges themselves. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. VXQuery received guidance on pushing releases back in July[1]. It seems to have had no effect[2]. The Incubator is not a hosting service. If VXQuery wants to be part of Apache, they must release. Marvin Humphrey [1] http://s.apache.org/9Sg [2] http://s.apache.org/rkn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Hi Ant, I was the shepherd on VXQuery in their last reporting period. I really don't feel like anything is really happening in the project, at least not anywhere that is visible. I even asked a technical question about one of their suggested use cases - organize and accessing Edgar documents. A source I have actually worked with. Company data is something I've been around all my life and I am in my 50s. I grew up around company data since my father was a Finance Professor at the University of Chicago and one of the founders of CRSP. My development career also involves managing and analyzing company data. Their answer was not clueful and very abstract. They have an idea for a query engine without any idea how to get data into the engine. Anyone with a clue would choose to use Apache Solr, Lucene, or something in the Hadoop cluster of projects over VXQuery. However if you think that a viable community and project is happening give it a try. But you should also look back to over a year ago when they got another chance. How many another chances and mentor reboots should we give a project? Regards, Dave On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, ant elder wrote: I don't see the need or point in being so draconian with the poddling especially given its history, so if you really do want to initiate retirement discussions if they've not released by their next report (which is just a few weeks away right?) I'll be voting against it and will volunteer to be a mentor to help try to keep them alive if they want to keep trying. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:01 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. Regardless, they will have to overcome their challenges themselves. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. VXQuery received guidance on pushing releases back in July[1]. It seems to have had no effect[2]. The Incubator is not a hosting service. If VXQuery wants to be part of Apache, they must release. Marvin Humphrey [1] http://s.apache.org/9Sg [2] http://s.apache.org/rkn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: I even asked a technical question about one of their suggested use cases - organize and accessing Edgar documents. A source I have actually worked with. Company data is something I've been around all my life and I am in my 50s. I grew up around company data since my father was a Finance Professor at the University of Chicago and one of the founders of CRSP. My development career also involves managing and analyzing company data. Apache doesn't gate projects based on technological criteria, so while it's regretful that VXQuery didn't work out for you, that doesn't impact whether we'd host it. But you should also look back to over a year ago when they got another chance. How many another chances and mentor reboots should we give a project? I'm starting to think that for long-running, low-activity podlings, we should be looking at whether new committers and PPMC members are being added and are sticking around to contribute commits. If community size and commit diversity are what's blocking graduation, the podling needs to demonstrate that they are striving to make progress on those specific issues. In VXQuery's case, though, they still have to get the incubating release out. To my mind, any podling that achieves that has succeeded -- and even if it doesn't go on to amass a viable TLP community, the podling has earned a dignified retirement. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Thanks for doing that so promptly Till. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Till Westmann t...@westmann.org wrote: Just for the record: The website is updated (from the branch that will hopefully be released soon). Till On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: ant elder wrote: Hi Marvin, I had a look, that README being pointed to is just build instructions on how to build the svn trunk isn't it, so not to some released artifacts. Thats allowed isn't it, i'm pretty sure other projects and podlings have done something similar anyway. Is it that the website describes it as user installation instructions rather than developer build instructions thats the issue? ...ant I reckon so. To clearly refer developers to developer resources is fine, but users no. They need to be referred to user instructions. In VXQuery's case, there's nothing to refer users to because in four years, VXQuery has never made an incubating release. If developer instructions for accessing version control are added to the website in accordance with ASF guidelines, of course that's fine -- so long as all user installation instructions are removed. Here's more background from the legal-discuss list regarding the current policy, this time from a different Board member, Doug Cutting: http://markmail.org/message/pelvob23vrzuzws5 Each PMC should attempt to ensure that every commit is in accord with Apache's intellectual property policies. Releases are a double-check of this. We hope that source code repositories are not legally considered publications, but we don't know that courts will in fact always treat them that way, so it's best to guard against that too. Note that the extra scrutiny around releases both serves to double-check (belt and suspenders) as well as to provide evidence that we do not consider the source code repository as a publication. But again, we cannot depend on others to agree with that, and must guard against other interpretations as best we can. If VXQuery finds it uncomfortable not to have anything they can show users, they can solve that by making a release. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Dropping the vxquery mailing list... To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. This labeling issue was just an honest attempt at trying to be helpful not some underhanded attempt to try to circumvent the ASF release policy, if they were getting adequate mentoring it would have just been an opportunity to teach them more about the ASF release policies and processes. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. In the past they've asked us for more mentors to help and got nothing. Its a small project but its managed to survive for 4 years here and still have some active committers and as they've just shown now when a problem is reported they fixed it in less than a day, so all credit to them for keeping on trying. On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for doing that so promptly Till. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Till Westmann t...@westmann.org wrote: Just for the record: The website is updated (from the branch that will hopefully be released soon). Till On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: ant elder wrote: Hi Marvin, I had a look, that README being pointed to is just build instructions on how to build the svn trunk isn't it, so not to some released artifacts. Thats allowed isn't it, i'm pretty sure other projects and podlings have done something similar anyway. Is it that the website describes it as user installation instructions rather than developer build instructions thats the issue? ...ant I reckon so. To clearly refer developers to developer resources is fine, but users no. They need to be referred to user instructions. In VXQuery's case, there's nothing to refer users to because in four years, VXQuery has never made an incubating release. If developer instructions for accessing version control are added to the website in accordance with ASF guidelines, of course that's fine -- so long as all user installation instructions are removed. Here's more background from the legal-discuss list regarding the current policy, this time from a different Board member, Doug Cutting: http://markmail.org/message/pelvob23vrzuzws5 Each PMC should attempt to ensure that every commit is in accord with Apache's intellectual property policies. Releases are a double-check of this. We hope that source code repositories are not legally considered publications, but we don't know that courts will in fact always treat them that way, so it's best to guard against that too. Note that the extra scrutiny around releases both serves to double-check (belt and suspenders) as well as to provide evidence that we do not consider the source code repository as a publication. But again, we cannot depend on others to agree with that, and must guard against other interpretations as best we can. If VXQuery finds it uncomfortable not to have anything they can show users, they can solve that by making a release. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:01 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. Regardless, they will have to overcome their challenges themselves. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. VXQuery received guidance on pushing releases back in July[1]. It seems to have had no effect[2]. The Incubator is not a hosting service. If VXQuery wants to be part of Apache, they must release. Marvin Humphrey [1] http://s.apache.org/9Sg [2] http://s.apache.org/rkn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
I don't see the need or point in being so draconian with the poddling especially given its history, so if you really do want to initiate retirement discussions if they've not released by their next report (which is just a few weeks away right?) I'll be voting against it and will volunteer to be a mentor to help try to keep them alive if they want to keep trying. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:01 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. Regardless, they will have to overcome their challenges themselves. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. VXQuery received guidance on pushing releases back in July[1]. It seems to have had no effect[2]. The Incubator is not a hosting service. If VXQuery wants to be part of Apache, they must release. Marvin Humphrey [1] http://s.apache.org/9Sg [2] http://s.apache.org/rkn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Ant, I think that everybody in the VXQuery podling would be very happy to have you on board as a mentor, even if we manage to release before the next report (which I still think we will). Please let us know if you would be willing to spend a few cycles helping VXQuery. Thanks, Till On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see the need or point in being so draconian with the poddling especially given its history, so if you really do want to initiate retirement discussions if they've not released by their next report (which is just a few weeks away right?) I'll be voting against it and will volunteer to be a mentor to help try to keep them alive if they want to keep trying. ...ant On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:01 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: To me VXQuery looks like an example of a project being let down by the Incubator PMC. Regardless, they will have to overcome their challenges themselves. Similarly with the no releases in 4 years - they've attempted to release twice and both times it stalled getting the votes, what they need are mentors who can show them whats necessary to push releases and voting through the Incubator. VXQuery received guidance on pushing releases back in July[1]. It seems to have had no effect[2]. The Incubator is not a hosting service. If VXQuery wants to be part of Apache, they must release. Marvin Humphrey [1] http://s.apache.org/9Sg [2] http://s.apache.org/rkn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Hi, Just to confirm several other Apache projects web site include links to nightly builds, but in most cases it's clear that it for development use, so is it OK to do like these projects do? Solr: http://wiki.apache.org/solr/NightlyBuilds JMeter: http://jmeter.apache.org/nightly.html Direcory: http://directory.apache.org/studio/nightly-builds.html Nutch: http://nutch.apache.org/nightly.html Ant: http://ant.apache.org/nightlies.html I'm asking because we may have a similar issue with the Apache Flex web site and the Apache Flex SDK installer. The last release of the Apache Flex installer allowed a user to install the nightly build, however it does default to the last official release and lists previous releases. Thanks, Justin
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: ant elder wrote: Hi Marvin, I had a look, that README being pointed to is just build instructions on how to build the svn trunk isn't it, so not to some released artifacts. Thats allowed isn't it, i'm pretty sure other projects and podlings have done something similar anyway. Is it that the website describes it as user installation instructions rather than developer build instructions thats the issue? ...ant I reckon so. To clearly refer developers to developer resources is fine, but users no. They need to be referred to user instructions. In VXQuery's case, there's nothing to refer users to because in four years, VXQuery has never made an incubating release. If developer instructions for accessing version control are added to the website in accordance with ASF guidelines, of course that's fine -- so long as all user installation instructions are removed. Here's more background from the legal-discuss list regarding the current policy, this time from a different Board member, Doug Cutting: http://markmail.org/message/pelvob23vrzuzws5 Each PMC should attempt to ensure that every commit is in accord with Apache's intellectual property policies. Releases are a double-check of this. We hope that source code repositories are not legally considered publications, but we don't know that courts will in fact always treat them that way, so it's best to guard against that too. Note that the extra scrutiny around releases both serves to double-check (belt and suspenders) as well as to provide evidence that we do not consider the source code repository as a publication. But again, we cannot depend on others to agree with that, and must guard against other interpretations as best we can. If VXQuery finds it uncomfortable not to have anything they can show users, they can solve that by making a release. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Just for the record: The website is updated (from the branch that will hopefully be released soon). Till On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: ant elder wrote: Hi Marvin, I had a look, that README being pointed to is just build instructions on how to build the svn trunk isn't it, so not to some released artifacts. Thats allowed isn't it, i'm pretty sure other projects and podlings have done something similar anyway. Is it that the website describes it as user installation instructions rather than developer build instructions thats the issue? ...ant I reckon so. To clearly refer developers to developer resources is fine, but users no. They need to be referred to user instructions. In VXQuery's case, there's nothing to refer users to because in four years, VXQuery has never made an incubating release. If developer instructions for accessing version control are added to the website in accordance with ASF guidelines, of course that's fine -- so long as all user installation instructions are removed. Here's more background from the legal-discuss list regarding the current policy, this time from a different Board member, Doug Cutting: http://markmail.org/message/pelvob23vrzuzws5 Each PMC should attempt to ensure that every commit is in accord with Apache's intellectual property policies. Releases are a double-check of this. We hope that source code repositories are not legally considered publications, but we don't know that courts will in fact always treat them that way, so it's best to guard against that too. Note that the extra scrutiny around releases both serves to double-check (belt and suspenders) as well as to provide evidence that we do not consider the source code repository as a publication. But again, we cannot depend on others to agree with that, and must guard against other interpretations as best we can. If VXQuery finds it uncomfortable not to have anything they can show users, they can solve that by making a release. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Till t...@westmann.org wrote: Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com hat am 22. August 2013 um 18:21 geschrieben: Let me be blunt: VXQuery needs to make an incubating release. Personally, I think it's important that we see one before your next quarterly report. Yes, I agree. And probably important is an understatement. Today, I was wondering how VXQuery could have made it through four years in the Incubator without making a release, and I took a look at the website. I note that in the navigation bar on the left hand side there is a For Users section which includes an Installation link. The page at the link points to the README file in svn. http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/user_installation.html Install instructions can be found in the README file. We must not distribute to users from our source repositories: http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what During the process of developing software and preparing a release, various packages are made available to the developer community for testing purposes. Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions placed on the package. If you find that the general public are downloading such test packages, then remove them. Under no circumstances are unapproved builds a substitute for releases. If this policy seems inconvenient, then release more often. Proper release management is a key aspect of Apache software development. Here's some background about the policy in a message from Roy Fielding to the legal-discuss list. http://markmail.org/message/njray5dbazwcdcts The release process is critical because it is the point at which the ASF as an organization approves a release to the public. It is the point at which the ASF's liability and goodwill comes into play. The checkpoints are necessary to ensure that we don't release a product that isn't open source or that hasn't been reviewed by the peers, since either one would seriously damage the foundation. The consistency is necessary because it establishes a well-worn set of procedures that distinguish ASF projects from those at Sourceforge or Google code. Speaking as the Incubator PMC Chair: Please remove the user installation links immediately. VXQuery is not allowed to distribute code which has not passed an IPMC vote to the general public. Speaking as a member of the Incubator PMC: If VXQuery has not released by the next report, I expect to initiate a discussion on retiring the podling. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Hi Marvin, I had a look, that README being pointed to is just build instructions on how to build the svn trunk isn't it, so not to some released artifacts. Thats allowed isn't it, i'm pretty sure other projects and podlings have done something similar anyway. Is it that the website describes it as user installation instructions rather than developer build instructions thats the issue? ...ant On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.comwrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Till t...@westmann.org wrote: Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com hat am 22. August 2013 um 18:21 geschrieben: Let me be blunt: VXQuery needs to make an incubating release. Personally, I think it's important that we see one before your next quarterly report. Yes, I agree. And probably important is an understatement. Today, I was wondering how VXQuery could have made it through four years in the Incubator without making a release, and I took a look at the website. I note that in the navigation bar on the left hand side there is a For Users section which includes an Installation link. The page at the link points to the README file in svn. http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/user_installation.html Install instructions can be found in the README file. We must not distribute to users from our source repositories: http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what During the process of developing software and preparing a release, various packages are made available to the developer community for testing purposes. Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions placed on the package. If you find that the general public are downloading such test packages, then remove them. Under no circumstances are unapproved builds a substitute for releases. If this policy seems inconvenient, then release more often. Proper release management is a key aspect of Apache software development. Here's some background about the policy in a message from Roy Fielding to the legal-discuss list. http://markmail.org/message/njray5dbazwcdcts The release process is critical because it is the point at which the ASF as an organization approves a release to the public. It is the point at which the ASF's liability and goodwill comes into play. The checkpoints are necessary to ensure that we don't release a product that isn't open source or that hasn't been reviewed by the peers, since either one would seriously damage the foundation. The consistency is necessary because it establishes a well-worn set of procedures that distinguish ASF projects from those at Sourceforge or Google code. Speaking as the Incubator PMC Chair: Please remove the user installation links immediately. VXQuery is not allowed to distribute code which has not passed an IPMC vote to the general public. Speaking as a member of the Incubator PMC: If VXQuery has not released by the next report, I expect to initiate a discussion on retiring the podling. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Marvin, I completely agree. There has been rather little happening in VXQuery for quite some time Regards, Dave On Aug 22, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: (continuing a conversation which is cross-posted to general@incubator and vxquery-dev@incubator...) Hi VXQuery developers, It's been a month since this exchange about how to succeed in the Incubator has passed: On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Till Westmann t...@westmann.org wrote: Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list. Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from discussions on general@i.a.o. I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within the ASF. OK, I'll indulge, then[1]. :) I think you're right to prioritize getting a release out the door. Releases are important not just for the features, but also for regenerating the energy around a product in the wider community. Real artists ship. -- Steve Jobs Since you've made it as far as creating two release candidates, presumably there is not anything structural (such as a stalled code grant) holding things up. Here's where the two previous release candidate vote threads ended: http://markmail.org/message/d6r7ucnymzlzun62 http://markmail.org/message/fmy7zw6gmm2ahozp Getting a first incubating release out can be labor-intensive and the process is sometimes frustrating. Wrangling IPMC votes is a hassle, and it gets harder the longer a podling is incubation because Mentors, like all open-source contributors, come and go. Even for podling contributors who are truly voracious consumers of Apache documentation, it's hard to produce a release candidate which encounters no objections from IPMC members. Nevertheless, dozens of other podlings have bulled their way through this phase. The IPMC may not be as efficient or as coherent as we would like it to be; things may not go smoothly. However, if there is sufficient energy behind VXQuery (and no legal blockers with regards to the code base), your release *will* get through eventually. And while occasionally a podling will have a Mentor who brings that kind of energy, that's not our expectation for those who fill the Mentor role -- most often, it is the podling's core contributors who must provide the push and sustain the momentum. Marvin Humphrey [1] We sometimes have problems where IPMC members who are not Mentors assigned to a specific podling provide guidance which is at odds with what the podling's Mentors have advised. Let's hope that the content of this mail is suitably general and non-controversial. Since then, there have been a total of 4 commits and 4 messages to vxquery-dev. Let me be blunt: VXQuery needs to make an incubating release. Personally, I think it's important that we see one before your next quarterly report. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
(continuing a conversation which is cross-posted to general@incubator and vxquery-dev@incubator...) Hi VXQuery developers, It's been a month since this exchange about how to succeed in the Incubator has passed: On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Till Westmann t...@westmann.org wrote: Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list. Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from discussions on general@i.a.o. I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within the ASF. OK, I'll indulge, then[1]. :) I think you're right to prioritize getting a release out the door. Releases are important not just for the features, but also for regenerating the energy around a product in the wider community. Real artists ship. -- Steve Jobs Since you've made it as far as creating two release candidates, presumably there is not anything structural (such as a stalled code grant) holding things up. Here's where the two previous release candidate vote threads ended: http://markmail.org/message/d6r7ucnymzlzun62 http://markmail.org/message/fmy7zw6gmm2ahozp Getting a first incubating release out can be labor-intensive and the process is sometimes frustrating. Wrangling IPMC votes is a hassle, and it gets harder the longer a podling is incubation because Mentors, like all open-source contributors, come and go. Even for podling contributors who are truly voracious consumers of Apache documentation, it's hard to produce a release candidate which encounters no objections from IPMC members. Nevertheless, dozens of other podlings have bulled their way through this phase. The IPMC may not be as efficient or as coherent as we would like it to be; things may not go smoothly. However, if there is sufficient energy behind VXQuery (and no legal blockers with regards to the code base), your release *will* get through eventually. And while occasionally a podling will have a Mentor who brings that kind of energy, that's not our expectation for those who fill the Mentor role -- most often, it is the podling's core contributors who must provide the push and sustain the momentum. Marvin Humphrey [1] We sometimes have problems where IPMC members who are not Mentors assigned to a specific podling provide guidance which is at odds with what the podling's Mentors have advised. Let's hope that the content of this mail is suitably general and non-controversial. Since then, there have been a total of 4 commits and 4 messages to vxquery-dev. Let me be blunt: VXQuery needs to make an incubating release. Personally, I think it's important that we see one before your next quarterly report. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Followup to VXQuery July 2013 report
Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com hat am 22. August 2013 um 18:21 geschrieben: (continuing a conversation which is cross-posted to general@incubator and vxquery-dev@incubator...) Hi VXQuery developers, It's been a month since this exchange about how to succeed in the Incubator has passed: On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Till Westmann t...@westmann.org wrote: Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list. Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from discussions on general@i.a.o. I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within the ASF. OK, I'll indulge, then[1]. :) [...] Since then, there have been a total of 4 commits and 4 messages to vxquery-dev. Let me be blunt: VXQuery needs to make an incubating release. Personally, I think it's important that we see one before your next quarterly report. Yes, I agree. And probably important is an understatement. Till - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
