Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Noel J. Bergman wrote (07-06-11 02:03) Michael Meeks: I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. You: I agree; you draw the same inference that I do: he means that a non-copyleft license is the reason for (predicted eventual) failure. Is 'Not likely to be a good home' the same as 'failure' ? Sure not in this case. It just means that the Apache solution does not cater for an important part of the community. That attitude is most likely why (IMO) the obvious candidate wasn't used when Oracle decided to transfer OpenOffice. Even more speculations, LOL And OT (interesting how this whole subject drives me/you/others this route). Licensing matters. IBM and others prefer an Open Source license, which allows a level playing field, rather than the inequity of GPL+proprietary, but they are not interested sharing everything. A know discussion indeed. Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Hi Jim, On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 16:14 -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote: certainly don't help. It just reinforces a perceived division as well as almost forcing the other side to take a defensive stance. Hey ho; I see my name being taken intravenously ;-) so the longer quote from a private mail from which this was excerpted that I sent to Sean (who I think summarised it fairly) was: The ASF has a very well designed governance, and a very experienced team, and some excellent licensing for specific situations, and I love their open-ness and robust discussion which is refreshing to see wrt. OO.o. quote However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. They are sufficiently confident and comfortable with their model that attempting to negotiate over changing any core aspect of it (such as the non-copy-left stance) is unlikely to be fruitful work. So - only time will tell. /quote There is only so much sweetness and light I can prefix to honey my basic conviction expressed as an individual :-) Hopefully one that you heard from me directly first. Furthermore, I believe that the Apache licensing and policies are for the most part extremely mature, very applicable and effective in certain projects, and fundamentally non-negotiable. These are the 'core aspects' I'm trying to get at as pointless to discuss changing. Reading the threads here, I hardly think that is controversial, but perhaps I missed something - I certainly don't want to shame anyone. Furthermore, if journalists come and ask questions, and others are speaking to the media - I don't see any substantial ethical problem with doing so too. Apologies if it came across badly, ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Michael, Conclusion: I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. Supporting statements: They are sufficiently confident and comfortable with their model that attempting to negotiate over changing any core aspect of it (such as the non-copy-left stance) is unlikely to be fruitful work. The ASF has a very well designed governance, and a very experienced team, and some excellent licensing for specific situations. I believe that the Apache licensing and policies are for the most part extremely mature, very applicable and effective in certain projects, and fundamentally non-negotiable. I fail to see how you draw the conclusion from the supporting arguments. One can infer from your supporting statements that you see licensing as the issue. But you've failed to draw the connection between the license and your conclusion. As an Epistemologist, I'm kind of interested in such nits. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Noel, I think your labels Conclusion and Supporting statements are incorrect, and that might explain why you fail to see how you draw the conclusion from the supporting arguments. The paragraph in question may contain more than one conclusion, and it may contain one or more opinions which the paragraph makes no attempt to support with other statements. I don't think it lends itself to being scientifically parsed. Allen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Noel J. Bergman wrote (06-06-11 23:51) Conclusion: I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. Supporting statements: [...] Supporting explanation ;-) http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Cor Nouws wrote (07-06-11 00:31) Noel J. Bergman wrote (06-06-11 23:51) Conclusion: I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. Supporting statements: [...] Supporting explanation ;-) http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Or better this link http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/%3c4de97e04.20...@nouenoff.nl%3E (apologies) -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Cor Nouws wrote: Noel J. Bergman wrote (06-06-11 23:51) Conclusion: I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run. Supporting statements: [...] Supporting explanation ;-) http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/%3c4de97e04.20...@nouenoff.nl%3E So, For me it is obvious that this statement is because there is strong involvement in LibreOffice from people that do not want to work with non-copyleft and Apache licence. I agree; you draw the same inference that I do: he means that a non-copyleft license is the reason for (predicted eventual) failure. That attitude is most likely why (IMO) the obvious candidate wasn't used when Oracle decided to transfer OpenOffice. Licensing matters. IBM and others prefer an Open Source license, which allows a level playing field, rather than the inequity of GPL+proprietary, but they are not interested sharing everything. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Allen Pulsifer wrote: I think your labels Conclusion and Supporting statements are incorrect To the contrary, Cor indicates that I nailed the matter quite squarely. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Rather wondering why this is the one thread that won't die... On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Allen Pulsifer wrote: I think your labels Conclusion and Supporting statements are incorrect To the contrary, Cor indicates that I nailed the matter quite squarely. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Simon Phipps +1 415 683 7660 : www.webmink.com
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Cor Nouws wrote (04-06-11 01:49) Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 01:10) That is the key difference. general@incubator is not talking to the press. It is an Apache process. Seems logic to me that you do not talk to the press about that (at this stage). Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. That is the difference. Outwardly and publicly the ASF is stressing the good and the potential of this effort. Whereas there appears a concerted effort by others to derail it and portray the ASF as the pawns of IBM/Oracle or as agents of anti-FOSS/anti-LOo actions. -- === Jim Jagielski [|] j...@jagunet.com [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On 4 June 2011 11:33, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. That is the difference. Outwardly and publicly the ASF is stressing the good and the potential of this effort. Whereas there appears a concerted effort by others to derail it and portray the ASF as the pawns of IBM/Oracle or as agents of anti-FOSS/anti-LOo actions. I think this is a little extreme :-) I don't see much positive efforts at derailing, just people trying to work out what it all means in terms of their own perspective, value systems and their ownership of their work. I think the discussions are surprisingly cordial given the circumstances. EQ is going to be just as important as IQ in resolving all this. -- === Jim Jagielski [|] j...@jagunet.com [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 5:33 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. That is the difference. Outwardly and publicly the ASF is stressing the good and the potential of this effort. like: Jagielski says what is typical for Apache is building (or even _re-building_) communities around those codebases. ... He says that makes Apache the perfect place to help '_repair_' the community around OpenOffice.org ... Weir also encourages the idea of doing core OO.org development in Apache and then having additional work done by _derivatives_. ... ? Norbert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 06:19:06AM -0500, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: Jagielski says what is typical for Apache is building (or even _re-building_) communities around those codebases. Which is true. It does not say that TDF is not able to. ... He says that makes Apache the perfect place to help '_repair_' the community around OpenOffice.org The community is fractured, is it not? So our history of community created code *is* a perfect place to *help* repair it. Notice the word help. It implies cooperation with others who also help repair it. -- === Jim Jagielski [|] j...@jagunet.com [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On 4 June 2011 12:19, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 5:33 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. That is the difference. Outwardly and publicly the ASF is stressing the good and the potential of this effort. like: Jagielski says what is typical for Apache is building (or even _re-building_) communities around those codebases. ... He says that makes Apache the perfect place to help '_repair_' the community around OpenOffice.org ... Weir also encourages the idea of doing core OO.org development in Apache and then having additional work done by _derivatives_. ... ? I can see why some might read into those statements implications that probably were not intended. That is the problem with perspectives :-) Is this saying TDF is responsible for breaking the OOo community? - I don't think so but some might read it as that. We all know the age old problem of communication by mailing list or news article. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Hi Jim, Jim Jagielski wrote (04-06-11 12:33) On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. I did not say that. But it was said of the interview with Meeks, which we found out not to be true either. That is the difference. Outwardly and publicly the ASF is stressing the good and the potential of this effort. Whereas there appears a concerted effort by others to derail it and portray the ASF as the pawns of IBM/Oracle or as agents of anti-FOSS/anti-LOo actions. If that is the feeling you get, there is something wrong. I do not see any sense in criticizing the ASF, just because they have a different view. Seems you get hit by pieces flying around that belong in the IBM - TDF dispute ;-) Sorry about that, maybe a bit more precise wording (from me and others) here and there would help, but I'm not sure if it would fully prevent that happening. Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Jun 4, 2011, at 8:39 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi Jim, Jim Jagielski wrote (04-06-11 12:33) On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:52:48AM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hmm, got that wrong I see now http://www.networkworld.com/community/apache-president-jim-jagielski-talks-openoffice-org Which is no problem for me, but obviously I misunderstood your statement about not talking to the press. Tell me where in that post anyone from the ASF is openly critical of TDF or strongly implies that TDF's ideological stance will be a factor in breaking any cooperation. I did not say that. But it was said of the interview with Meeks, which we found out not to be true either. I must have significantly misinterpreted the below: However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. They are sufficiently confident and comfortable with their model that attempting to negotiate over changing any core aspect of it (such as the non-copy-left stance) is unlikely to be fruitful work. So - only time will tell. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: I can see why some might read into those statements implications that probably were not intended. That is the problem with perspectives :-) I used these quote to illustrate that and to put that in parallel with the complaint about Michael Meeks being quoted by a journalist in terms deemed not pleasant toward Apache. Given any article out there and given any personal preference, one can always find something to be offended about if one squint hard enough :-) It's a one of these many things that cut both ways... Norbert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Hi Jim, Jim Jagielski wrote (04-06-11 19:42) I must have significantly misinterpreted the below: However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. They are sufficiently confident and comfortable with their model that attempting to negotiate over changing any core aspect of it (such as the non-copy-left stance) is unlikely to be fruitful work. So - only time will tell. Yes you did, Pls read my mail from 0:35 UTC last night in this thread. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Posts such as: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3935136/LibreOffice-340-Released-as-OpenOffice-Heads-to-Apache.htm certainly don't help. It just reinforces a perceived division as well as almost forcing the other side to take a defensive stance. It's a shame. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On 3 Jun 2011, at 21:14, Jim Jagielski wrote: Posts such as: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3935136/LibreOffice-340-Released-as-OpenOffice-Heads-to-Apache.htm certainly don't help. It just reinforces a perceived division as well as almost forcing the other side to take a defensive stance. It's a shame. Looks like a journalist writing a story about LO's 3.4 releaser to me. They like to stir, you know :-) S. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Hi Jim, all, short intro Long time OpenOffice.org contributor in various areas. Mainly LibreOffice since Sept. 2010. One of the founders there. Now looking at a Thinderbird folder with more than 300 mails, of which I've only read a few up until now :-) Living in The Netherlands, so If I skip in an hour or so, it is because of the time zone ;-) /short intro Jim Jagielski wrote (03-06-11 22:14) Posts such as: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3935136/LibreOffice-340-Released-as-OpenOffice-Heads-to-Apache.htm certainly don't help. It just reinforces a perceived division as well as almost forcing the other side to take a defensive stance. It's a shame. I do not understand why that should be a shame. All I read is explanation of the situation, among which implicitly an important difference: the copy-left versus non copy-left. That is a personal style, choice that is one of the reasons d'être of LibreOffice. Indeed a line in the sand. But putting ones head in the sand, by not acknowledging it, would make little sense IMO. Kind regards, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Fri, Jun 03, 2011 at 10:50:43PM +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi Jim, all, I do not understand why that should be a shame. All I read is explanation of the situation, among which implicitly an important difference: the copy-left versus non copy-left. That is a personal style, choice that is one of the reasons d'?tre of LibreOffice. Indeed a line in the sand. But putting ones head in the sand, by not acknowledging it, would make little sense IMO. If really curious about why I thought it a shame, please let me know and I'd be happy to explain... -- === Jim Jagielski [|] j...@jagunet.com [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 16:50, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: ... Jim Jagielski wrote (03-06-11 22:14) Posts such as: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3935136/LibreOffice-340-Released-as-OpenOffice-Heads-to-Apache.htm certainly don't help. It just reinforces a perceived division as well as almost forcing the other side to take a defensive stance. It's a shame. I do not understand why that should be a shame. The article portrays Michael as a spokesperson for the LibreOffice community. And then Michael proceeds to denigrate the effort here. It is fine for individuals to have opinions, but when it starts to get portrayed at a community level... well. Not so nice. -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 17:57, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Michael is repeating some invariants that he and other LO/TDF people have stated, politely and consistently, since the inception of this discussion. They are committed to copyleft, they see dependencies with copyleft, their vision of OO is copyleft. There's perfect symmetry here: we're making public statements (well, general@incubator) to the effect that everything would be unicorns and rainbows if only they'd give up on copyleft and adopt the AL, and they're stating the perfect converse. We support our argument, they support theirs. That is the key difference. general@incubator is not talking to the press. I don't see any press where ASF people talking smack about TDF/LO. *shrug* I think a week will allow us to move past a lot of this stuff and become more constructive. Just gotta wait... Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
In the long run we are all dead ;-) So let's concentrate on the short run to start with. On 4 Jun 2011 01:24, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 19:49, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 01:1... However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: gener...
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 02:23) On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 19:49, Cor Nouwsoo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 01:10) That is the key difference. general@incubator is not talking to the press. It is an Apache process. Seems logic to me that you do not talk to the press about that (at this stage). Meeks is being interviewed about what's going on around libreOffice. I don't see any press where ASF people talking smack about TDF/LO. I don't see any smack in it. I read he is giving his opinion in a polite manner. (Have seen different quotes from him in the past ..). And also complimenting the ASF. However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. OK, now I understand where your impression comes from. For me it is obvious that this statement is because there is strong involvement in LibreOffice from people that do not want to work with non-copyleft and Apache licence. So just another (though indeed rather implicit, explanation of a different view on things.) (So seeing Robs questionnaire: it won't be easy to get ground for many positive replies. But of course it is good to try. I even might step in with some suggestions, that however always tend to fail, since my mind does not take large corporate policies into consideration ;-) ) Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 20:36, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 02:23) On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 19:49, Cor Nouwsoo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: ... I don't see any smack in it. I read he is giving his opinion in a polite manner. (Have seen different quotes from him in the past ..). And also complimenting the ASF. However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. OK, now I understand where your impression comes from. For me it is obvious that this statement is because there is strong involvement in LibreOffice from people that do not want to work with non-copyleft and Apache licence. So just another (though indeed rather implicit, explanation of a different view on things.) Oh, I understand where he's coming. Michael and I have exchanged a number of emails on the subject. I have zero problem with his position, and even encouraged him to continue to speak out. I do take some issue with moving it from mailing list discussion over to the press. That just doesn't seem to be good for anybody (ASF and TDF). My mother always told me to just be quiet, rather than talk bad about other people. I don't always do that right, but it is something to strive for. Especially if you're talking to a reporter. Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote on 06/03/2011 08:36:20 PM: (So seeing Robs questionnaire: it won't be easy to get ground for many positive replies. But of course it is good to try. I even might step in with some suggestions, that however always tend to fail, since my mind does not take large corporate policies into consideration ;-) ) And Cor, please, if you see some other possibilities that I'm not seeing, feel free to augment the list of questions. -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
However, I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project in the long run, Meeks said. When I read that, I also did not see anything offensive. I believe when Michael said that he was thinking of OOo as he knows it, which is a desktop application. The ASF has no track record (that I'm aware of) with desktop applications, so I don't think you can fault him for having the opinion that the ASF would not be the best place for OOo. It was just his opinion and not I think intended to be malicious or insulting. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: OOo - Lines in the sand and pre-determined conclusions...
Greg Stein wrote (04-06-11 02:56) rather than talk bad about Still not get that 'bad' ;-) -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
