Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On 7/1/2011 4:04 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote: > >> From: William A. Rowe Jr. [mailto:wr...@rowe-clan.net] >> We also made it clear the *author* should also commit their own code, and >> all authors should become committers. > > Each term (semester) Bluesky will get a new crop of students (committers) and > the old ones will be gone forever. Sounds like SoC... and that's a pretty blanket generalization. One would hope a few students decide to continue contributing once their 'assignment' is finished, and it's absolutely mandatory that the project continue to accept their participation, if some so desire. > Are we to keep on creating new committer accts for these folks knowing damn > well > that at the end of the term they disappear and a new lot appears? This is why > they ( > when they did commit) shared accounts. This differs from SoC how? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote: > Are we to keep on creating new committer accts for these folks knowing damn > well > that at the end of the term they disappear and a new lot appears? This is why > they ( > when they did commit) shared accounts. What if the students all served as contributors rather than committers, with a core of committers that handled the contributions? As long as a contribution is made to a JIRA, and said contribution was flagged as being released to ASF, that should ensure clean IP, right? Of course, that's presupposing all the code is maintained publicly from now on. Don - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On Jul 1, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: William A. Rowe Jr. [mailto:wr...@rowe-clan.net] >> Sent: Saturday, 2 July 2011 1:24 AM >> To: general@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor! >> >> On 7/1/2011 10:19 AM, Luciano Resende wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Benson Margulies >> wrote: >>>> Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the >>>> vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has >>>> 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself >>>> on github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. >>>> >>>> My vote is +1 to retire. >>>> >>> >>> This will be my sentiment as well, particularly if I look at the >>> commit list archive [1] on Monday and continue to see no commits even >>> after telling the podling that the code should be committed to Apache >>> repository and any cleanup or further development should be done in >>> the open. >>> >>> http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.blues >>> ky-commits >> >> We also made it clear the *author* should also commit their own code, and >> all authors should become committers. > > Each term (semester) Bluesky will get a new crop of students (committers) and > the old ones will be gone forever. > > Are we to keep on creating new committer accts for these folks knowing damn > well > that at the end of the term they disappear and a new lot appears? This is why > they ( > when they did commit) shared accounts. > > For the infra requirements of an Apache project alone, this project does not > fit. > Sounds like a great project, but not one that belongs here under its current > style of > working. If they can change that somehow ... > > (It's also obvious a 'community' will never get time to gel as the next lot > move out/in , > It's also obvious outsiders to Bluesky will likely not be able to > participate, as that is not > what the project is about - from their end. (So a diverse community cannot be > built...) > > I see no benefit to the ASF or Bluesky in continuing on, but I hope to be > mistaken. > > Gav... +1 I also don't feel the vote to retire should be tabled. I'm convinced this project is not going to gel into anything that would ever make it out of the incubator. Ralph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
> -Original Message- > From: William A. Rowe Jr. [mailto:wr...@rowe-clan.net] > Sent: Saturday, 2 July 2011 1:24 AM > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor! > > On 7/1/2011 10:19 AM, Luciano Resende wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Benson Margulies > wrote: > >> Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the > >> vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has > >> 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself > >> on github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. > >> > >> My vote is +1 to retire. > >> > > > > This will be my sentiment as well, particularly if I look at the > > commit list archive [1] on Monday and continue to see no commits even > > after telling the podling that the code should be committed to Apache > > repository and any cleanup or further development should be done in > > the open. > > > > http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.blues > > ky-commits > > We also made it clear the *author* should also commit their own code, and > all authors should become committers. Each term (semester) Bluesky will get a new crop of students (committers) and the old ones will be gone forever. Are we to keep on creating new committer accts for these folks knowing damn well that at the end of the term they disappear and a new lot appears? This is why they ( when they did commit) shared accounts. For the infra requirements of an Apache project alone, this project does not fit. Sounds like a great project, but not one that belongs here under its current style of working. If they can change that somehow ... (It's also obvious a 'community' will never get time to gel as the next lot move out/in , It's also obvious outsiders to Bluesky will likely not be able to participate, as that is not what the project is about - from their end. (So a diverse community cannot be built...) I see no benefit to the ASF or Bluesky in continuing on, but I hope to be mistaken. Gav... > > I know of no progress on this issue, either. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On 7/1/2011 10:19 AM, Luciano Resende wrote: > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Benson Margulies > wrote: >> Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the >> vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has >> 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself on >> github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. >> >> My vote is +1 to retire. >> > > This will be my sentiment as well, particularly if I look at the > commit list archive [1] on Monday and continue to see no commits even > after telling the podling that the code should be committed to Apache > repository and any cleanup or further development should be done in > the open. > > http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.bluesky-commits We also made it clear the *author* should also commit their own code, and all authors should become committers. I know of no progress on this issue, either. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Benson Margulies wrote: > Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the > vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has > 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself on > github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. > > My vote is +1 to retire. > This will be my sentiment as well, particularly if I look at the commit list archive [1] on Monday and continue to see no commits even after telling the podling that the code should be committed to Apache repository and any cleanup or further development should be done in the open. http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.bluesky-commits -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
This reflects my sentiments as well. Regards, Alan On Jul 1, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Benson Margulies wrote: > Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the > vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has > 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself on > github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. > > My vote is +1 to retire. > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Bill Stoddard wrote: >> I am not certain on this point, but I believe Jack Cai would be interested >> in being a mentor. I don't think he is subscribed to this mailing list tho. >> >> Jack? >> >> Bill >> >> On 6/29/11 9:12 PM, Chen Liu wrote: >>> >>> Hi,all, >>> >>> Now, Bluesky project calls for a new mentor to guide us to complete the >>> release work of 4th version. >>> >>> BlueSky is an e-learning solution designed to help solve the disparity in >>> availability of qualified education between well-developed cities and >>> poorer >>> regions of >>> >>> China (e.g., countryside of Western China). BlueSky is already deployed to >>> 12 + 5 primary/high schools with positive reviews.BlueSky was originally >>> created by Qinghua Zheng and Jun Liu in September 2005. The BlueSky >>> development is being done at XJTU-IBM Open Technology and Application >>> Joint >>> Develop Center, more than 20 developers are involved. And it entered >>> incubation on 2008-01-12. >>> >>> BlueSky is consisted with two subsystems -- RealClass system and MersMp >>> system, both of which contains a set of flexible, extensible applications >>> such as "Distance Collaboration System", "Collaboration player", >>> "Collaboration recording tool", "Resources Sharing and Management >>> Platform" >>> and Access of mobile terminal, designed by engineers and educators with >>> years of experience in the problem domain, as well as a framework that >>> makes >>> it possible to create new applications that exist with others. >>> >>> Currently,Bluesky project has evolved into the 4th version system with >>> more >>> flexible applications and stabilities. We had developed the core >>> applications of bluesky system with QT to support both Windows and Linux. >>> What's more important, the new version system has the feature of >>> integrated >>> applications, which means that user can record a video during the >>> interactive process and then play it in VOD method.The third advancement >>> is >>> that the 4th version sysytem supports Android platform and we can further >>> advance Blursky in the mobile domain. >>> >>> We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software >>> Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. We >>> hope >>> to encourage contributions and use of Bluesky by other developing >>> countries >>> with similar education needs. Currently, the new version of BlueSky system >>> is already handy to release.We really need to add an enthusiastic and >>> responsive mentor to help us to complete full cycle of successful >>> release.So >>> we hope that with the help of developers all around the world, the system >>> could become more powerful and functional in education area. >>> >>> We appreciate your attentions to Bluesky project. >>> >>> Best regards. >>> >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Based on the email trail recently, I'm in favor of completing the vote. I think that there is sufficient evidence that this project has 'failed to launch' as an Apache community, and should go put itself on github. If enough people disagree, they can vote -1. My vote is +1 to retire. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Bill Stoddard wrote: > I am not certain on this point, but I believe Jack Cai would be interested > in being a mentor. I don't think he is subscribed to this mailing list tho. > > Jack? > > Bill > > On 6/29/11 9:12 PM, Chen Liu wrote: >> >> Hi,all, >> >> Now, Bluesky project calls for a new mentor to guide us to complete the >> release work of 4th version. >> >> BlueSky is an e-learning solution designed to help solve the disparity in >> availability of qualified education between well-developed cities and >> poorer >> regions of >> >> China (e.g., countryside of Western China). BlueSky is already deployed to >> 12 + 5 primary/high schools with positive reviews.BlueSky was originally >> created by Qinghua Zheng and Jun Liu in September 2005. The BlueSky >> development is being done at XJTU-IBM Open Technology and Application >> Joint >> Develop Center, more than 20 developers are involved. And it entered >> incubation on 2008-01-12. >> >> BlueSky is consisted with two subsystems -- RealClass system and MersMp >> system, both of which contains a set of flexible, extensible applications >> such as "Distance Collaboration System", "Collaboration player", >> "Collaboration recording tool", "Resources Sharing and Management >> Platform" >> and Access of mobile terminal, designed by engineers and educators with >> years of experience in the problem domain, as well as a framework that >> makes >> it possible to create new applications that exist with others. >> >> Currently,Bluesky project has evolved into the 4th version system with >> more >> flexible applications and stabilities. We had developed the core >> applications of bluesky system with QT to support both Windows and Linux. >> What's more important, the new version system has the feature of >> integrated >> applications, which means that user can record a video during the >> interactive process and then play it in VOD method.The third advancement >> is >> that the 4th version sysytem supports Android platform and we can further >> advance Blursky in the mobile domain. >> >> We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software >> Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. We >> hope >> to encourage contributions and use of Bluesky by other developing >> countries >> with similar education needs. Currently, the new version of BlueSky system >> is already handy to release.We really need to add an enthusiastic and >> responsive mentor to help us to complete full cycle of successful >> release.So >> we hope that with the help of developers all around the world, the system >> could become more powerful and functional in education area. >> >> We appreciate your attentions to Bluesky project. >> >> Best regards. >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
I am not certain on this point, but I believe Jack Cai would be interested in being a mentor. I don't think he is subscribed to this mailing list tho. Jack? Bill On 6/29/11 9:12 PM, Chen Liu wrote: Hi,all, Now, Bluesky project calls for a new mentor to guide us to complete the release work of 4th version. BlueSky is an e-learning solution designed to help solve the disparity in availability of qualified education between well-developed cities and poorer regions of China (e.g., countryside of Western China). BlueSky is already deployed to 12 + 5 primary/high schools with positive reviews.BlueSky was originally created by Qinghua Zheng and Jun Liu in September 2005. The BlueSky development is being done at XJTU-IBM Open Technology and Application Joint Develop Center, more than 20 developers are involved. And it entered incubation on 2008-01-12. BlueSky is consisted with two subsystems -- RealClass system and MersMp system, both of which contains a set of flexible, extensible applications such as "Distance Collaboration System", "Collaboration player", "Collaboration recording tool", "Resources Sharing and Management Platform" and Access of mobile terminal, designed by engineers and educators with years of experience in the problem domain, as well as a framework that makes it possible to create new applications that exist with others. Currently,Bluesky project has evolved into the 4th version system with more flexible applications and stabilities. We had developed the core applications of bluesky system with QT to support both Windows and Linux. What's more important, the new version system has the feature of integrated applications, which means that user can record a video during the interactive process and then play it in VOD method.The third advancement is that the 4th version sysytem supports Android platform and we can further advance Blursky in the mobile domain. We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. We hope to encourage contributions and use of Bluesky by other developing countries with similar education needs. Currently, the new version of BlueSky system is already handy to release.We really need to add an enthusiastic and responsive mentor to help us to complete full cycle of successful release.So we hope that with the help of developers all around the world, the system could become more powerful and functional in education area. We appreciate your attentions to Bluesky project. Best regards. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Samuel Kevin wrote: > Most of the developers of BlueSky project are students. As you all know, > students come when they join in school and go after they graduate. So > the active developers are around 10. Like we used to have 5 committers, > but now we only have 2 committers in active. As others have pointed out, and I believe you acknowledge (q.v., "I am not avoiding the truth that we suck during the last three years"), there are better and necessary ways to address this issue. And we've worked with Google every year during the Summer of Code, so we're not exactly inexperienced working with students. > According to what you've listed, i would forward your suggestion to bluesky > dev list and wish we could make a quick response after discussion. Incorporate all of the feedback you're getting from folks. It is urgent that you take the advice, get all of the current code into source control ASAP, get students onto the mailing list now, start doing discussion and coding in public, and submit changes on a regular basis via SVN and/or JIRA. These are the same things you've also read from Christian and Upayavira. You don't need a new Mentor to do those things. Demonstrate change and we'll try to help you succeed. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:37, Christian Grobmeier wrote: >> I believe projects from school could also rock in Apache as well. You can >> look down up on us but you can't deny others. > > This is not the point. > > The point is, if you have contributors who have no apache id, they > > a) need to sign an ICLA > b) need to create an Jira issue and attach an svn diff there, ticking > the "allowed to use for the ASF" box > c) need to ask development questions on the mailinglist, not by ICQ, > MSN or whatever > > You can actually work with students, no problem. But it should happen > visible. Even when you are in the same room, it should be visible to > all other parties around the world. Otherwise you will never get an > development community. > > >> I had a propose that community give us the last chance for 1-2month and >> certain member could become our mentor to lead us finish releasing the >> newest version. During this time slot. What you would see includes: > > I am not sure if the term "mentor" is used well here. A "mentor" is > not here to help you in development questions. A mentors role is to > oversee how the project progresses, guide people to work after the > apache way. After 3 years you should already know about the apache way > and mentor should be obsolet (from a teaching role only). A mentor is > for sure NO project lead. He can point you to the according docs of > "how to release code", for example. > >> 1. gradually increasing discussion in bluesky-dev mailing list. >> Meaningless discussion would not count. > > ALL discussion must happen on list, from now on. If it didn't happen > on list, it didn't happen, as a wise man once said. > >> 2. committing of source code after they were cleaned up. >> Inactive committers would be revoked and new committers would apply to join >> in. > > Now or never. It is "commit then review" > Potential new committers must show their interest on the mailing list > - otherwise your mentors cannot decide if they should support a > invitation or not. As you know, new committers must be voted in. The > discussion should also happen before, on list. > >> 3. preparing for what release needs and make the release successful. Thus >> the new developers and committers could completely experienced the release >> process and know about "How" things are done in Apache community better. > > You should start working on the apache way even before the release. If > it didn't work well before, it will not work well while releasing. > >> If community accept my suggestion, individually, i want the BlueSky >> project under strict surveillance by community members. If we can't fulfill >> what we just promised, then just kick us out of here and i would have noting >> to say. > > I (personally) have no problems with waiting just another 2 or 3 > months. I cannot imagine anyone would like to step up as a mentor at > the moment. My suggestion: try to work out the apache way now. Use > jira and the mailinglist. Students contribute patches through jira. > Committers apply them. And so on. If that all happens, your Jira is > full of contributions and your mailinglist full of discussions. If > that is the case, come back to this list and ask for a mentor again - > probably somebody is willling to step up again. We had this discussion multiple times over the last year. I firmly think, without immediate new mentors this project should not continue. Bernd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Personally, I see a *HEAP* of stuff Bluesky would need to handle before doing an ASF release. I would get that right out of your head from the start. Firstly, you would have to have demonstrated that all the code is covered by software grants or ICLAs that are held by the Apache Software Foundation. Secondly, you would have to go through the entire codebase, and remove all code that cannot be included in a work covered by the Apache License. This would mean excluding any LGPL/GPL code, and possibly more. Secondly, you should be committing code *before* you clean it up. The clean-up should happen in public, on ASF lists. Otherwise it smacks of 'over the wall' development, meaning other developers not in your immediate team would have no capacity to engage in the development, as all they can see at Apache is a sequence of code drops, of code that was actually developed elsewhere. Here are the steps I would see the project needing to complete, and probably within a month, to survive: (a) Get all code onto Apache SVN, immediately (it is okay to include LGPL code in SVN, it just can't be released) (b) Every change to the code needs to be a real change, not a code drop (c) Patches made by students who are not committers should be uploaded to JIRA, with correct provenance (ICLA signed) before they are committed (d) All development happens on the ASF list (e) Any idea of doing a release at Apache within six months must be dropped Upayavira On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:49 +0800, "SamuelKevin" wrote: > Hi, Ralph: > I am not avoiding the truth that we suck during the last three > years, > though we were once at the verge of release. It's* just* we *Bluesky > Team > @ XJTU ，Xi'an China* fail to make it good, please remember it well. I > believe projects from school could also rock in Apache as well. You can > look down up on us but you can't deny others. > I had a propose that community give us the last chance for 1-2month > and > certain member could become our mentor to lead us finish releasing the > newest version. During this time slot. What you would see includes: > >1. gradually increasing discussion in bluesky-dev mailing list. >Meaningless discussion would not count. >2. committing of source code after they were cleaned up. >Inactive committers would be revoked and new committers would apply to >join >in. >3. preparing for what release needs and make the release successful. >Thus >the new developers and committers could completely experienced the >release >process and know about "How" things are done in Apache community >better. > > If community accept my suggestion, individually, i want the BlueSky > project under strict surveillance by community members. If we can't > fulfill > what we just promised, then just kick us out of here and i would have > noting > to say. > Well, suppose we live through that, besides working in Apache way, > we > would continually working on to evolve BlueSky to make it much more > easier > to use in e-learning area and used in a larger scope(now bluesky has > been deployed in China and is about to be applied in India ), so that > more > students in undeveloped district could share the same high quality > education > as the developed area. > Sincerely, i would invite you Ralph to be our mentor in this 1-2 > month > if you were not busy enough and willing to guide us. Don't feel sorry if > you > want to refuse me.TOT > regards, > Kevin > > 2011/6/30 Ralph Goers > > > Sorry, but the explanation below makes things sound even worse. Apache > > projects are not here to give students a place to do school work. What you > > have described is not a community. If the project cannot build a community > > of people who are interested in the project for more than a school term then > > it doesn't belong here. > > > > Ralph > > > > On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, SamuelKevin wrote: > > > > > Hi, Noel: > > > > > > 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman > > > > > >> Joe Schaefer wrote: > > >>> Chen Liu wrote: > > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache > > Software > > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. > > >> > > >>> You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF > > subversion > > >>> repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. > > >> > > >> Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing > > for > > >> the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the > > future. > > >> > > >>> Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance > > >> between > > >>> the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the > > >>> number of people with Apache accounts here (2). > > >> > > >> I guess i can explain that. Most of the developers of BlueSky project > > are > > > students. As you all know, students come when they join in school an
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
> I believe projects from school could also rock in Apache as well. You can > look down up on us but you can't deny others. This is not the point. The point is, if you have contributors who have no apache id, they a) need to sign an ICLA b) need to create an Jira issue and attach an svn diff there, ticking the "allowed to use for the ASF" box c) need to ask development questions on the mailinglist, not by ICQ, MSN or whatever You can actually work with students, no problem. But it should happen visible. Even when you are in the same room, it should be visible to all other parties around the world. Otherwise you will never get an development community. > I had a propose that community give us the last chance for 1-2month and > certain member could become our mentor to lead us finish releasing the > newest version. During this time slot. What you would see includes: I am not sure if the term "mentor" is used well here. A "mentor" is not here to help you in development questions. A mentors role is to oversee how the project progresses, guide people to work after the apache way. After 3 years you should already know about the apache way and mentor should be obsolet (from a teaching role only). A mentor is for sure NO project lead. He can point you to the according docs of "how to release code", for example. > 1. gradually increasing discussion in bluesky-dev mailing list. > Meaningless discussion would not count. ALL discussion must happen on list, from now on. If it didn't happen on list, it didn't happen, as a wise man once said. > 2. committing of source code after they were cleaned up. > Inactive committers would be revoked and new committers would apply to join > in. Now or never. It is "commit then review" Potential new committers must show their interest on the mailing list - otherwise your mentors cannot decide if they should support a invitation or not. As you know, new committers must be voted in. The discussion should also happen before, on list. > 3. preparing for what release needs and make the release successful. Thus > the new developers and committers could completely experienced the release > process and know about "How" things are done in Apache community better. You should start working on the apache way even before the release. If it didn't work well before, it will not work well while releasing. > If community accept my suggestion, individually, i want the BlueSky > project under strict surveillance by community members. If we can't fulfill > what we just promised, then just kick us out of here and i would have noting > to say. I (personally) have no problems with waiting just another 2 or 3 months. I cannot imagine anyone would like to step up as a mentor at the moment. My suggestion: try to work out the apache way now. Use jira and the mailinglist. Students contribute patches through jira. Committers apply them. And so on. If that all happens, your Jira is full of contributions and your mailinglist full of discussions. If that is the case, come back to this list and ask for a mentor again - probably somebody is willling to step up again. If you have more questions on "how apache works", I am pretty sure you'll get an answer on this list. Cheers, Christian > Well, suppose we live through that, besides working in Apache way, we > would continually working on to evolve BlueSky to make it much more easier > to use in e-learning area and used in a larger scope(now bluesky has > been deployed in China and is about to be applied in India ), so that more > students in undeveloped district could share the same high quality education > as the developed area. > Sincerely, i would invite you Ralph to be our mentor in this 1-2 month > if you were not busy enough and willing to guide us. Don't feel sorry if you > want to refuse me.TOT > regards, > Kevin > > 2011/6/30 Ralph Goers > >> Sorry, but the explanation below makes things sound even worse. Apache >> projects are not here to give students a place to do school work. What you >> have described is not a community. If the project cannot build a community >> of people who are interested in the project for more than a school term then >> it doesn't belong here. >> >> Ralph >> >> On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, SamuelKevin wrote: >> >> > Hi, Noel: >> > >> > 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman >> > >> >> Joe Schaefer wrote: >> >>> Chen Liu wrote: >> We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache >> Software >> Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. >> >> >> >>> You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF >> subversion >> >>> repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. >> >> >> >> Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing >> for >> >> the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the >> future. >> >> >> >>> Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance >> >> between
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Hi, Ralph: I am not avoiding the truth that we suck during the last three years, though we were once at the verge of release. It's* just* we *Bluesky Team @ XJTU ，Xi'an China* fail to make it good, please remember it well. I believe projects from school could also rock in Apache as well. You can look down up on us but you can't deny others. I had a propose that community give us the last chance for 1-2month and certain member could become our mentor to lead us finish releasing the newest version. During this time slot. What you would see includes: 1. gradually increasing discussion in bluesky-dev mailing list. Meaningless discussion would not count. 2. committing of source code after they were cleaned up. Inactive committers would be revoked and new committers would apply to join in. 3. preparing for what release needs and make the release successful. Thus the new developers and committers could completely experienced the release process and know about "How" things are done in Apache community better. If community accept my suggestion, individually, i want the BlueSky project under strict surveillance by community members. If we can't fulfill what we just promised, then just kick us out of here and i would have noting to say. Well, suppose we live through that, besides working in Apache way, we would continually working on to evolve BlueSky to make it much more easier to use in e-learning area and used in a larger scope(now bluesky has been deployed in China and is about to be applied in India ), so that more students in undeveloped district could share the same high quality education as the developed area. Sincerely, i would invite you Ralph to be our mentor in this 1-2 month if you were not busy enough and willing to guide us. Don't feel sorry if you want to refuse me.TOT regards, Kevin 2011/6/30 Ralph Goers > Sorry, but the explanation below makes things sound even worse. Apache > projects are not here to give students a place to do school work. What you > have described is not a community. If the project cannot build a community > of people who are interested in the project for more than a school term then > it doesn't belong here. > > Ralph > > On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, SamuelKevin wrote: > > > Hi, Noel: > > > > 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman > > > >> Joe Schaefer wrote: > >>> Chen Liu wrote: > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache > Software > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. > >> > >>> You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF > subversion > >>> repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. > >> > >> Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing > for > >> the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the > future. > >> > >>> Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance > >> between > >>> the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the > >>> number of people with Apache accounts here (2). > >> > >> I guess i can explain that. Most of the developers of BlueSky project > are > > students. As you all know, students come when they join in school and go > > after they graduate. So the active developers are around 10. Like we used > to > > have 5 committers, but now we only have 2 committers in active. > > > >> Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done > via > >> the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized. We are a > >> development > >> community, not a remote archive. > >> > >>> What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement > >> them, > >>> who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase > as > >> peers. > >> > >> Joe, again, has this on the money. The BlueSky project must immediately > >> make significant strides to rectify these issues. Now, not later. > >> > >> We should see: > >> > >> 1) All current code in the ASF repository. > >> 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed > >> up). > >> 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list. > >> 4) All licensing issues cleaned up. > >> > >> According to what you've listed, i would forward your suggestion to > bluesky > > dev list and wish we could make a quick response after > > discussion. Appreciate your help. > > regards, > > Kevin > > > >> --- Noel > >> > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev TeamXJTU > > Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech > > http://incubator.apache.org/bluesky/ > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@in
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Hi, Luciano: Currently, we have 4 committers. And 2 of them stay inactive. The newest source code would be committed by me after the students grant warrant. regards, Kevin 2011/6/30 Luciano Resende > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Chen Liu wrote: > > We really appreciate both of your suggestions on Bluesky's development in > > ASF. > > > > We think that we are supposed to finish code release work of the 4th > version > > in the end of July.Due to the effective work we really need a experienced > > mentor to guide our release. In addition, there are about 8-9 developers > to > > do the release work, some of whom are green hands to release code in ASF > > owing to change of team members.We consider that it is important if there > is > > a disscussion about how to fast acquire this guide instructions. > > > > By the way, we have been developing the bluesky project. After the > release > > work of 4th version. We would like to discuss the deployment of the 5th > > version including IPTV function and so on. We appreciate collaboraters in > > ASF to give us some suggestions about mobile terminal and IPTV. > > > > Who are the current students/developers that worked on the so called > 4th version of the code ? The interesting part is that the last JIRA > was created on June 2010 (BLUESKY-10), which raises the question on > who is actually committing the other students code to the repository. > > -- > Luciano Resende > http://people.apache.org/~lresende > http://twitter.com/lresende1975 > http://lresende.blogspot.com/ > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev TeamXJTU Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech http://incubator.apache.org/bluesky/
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Chen Liu wrote: > We really appreciate both of your suggestions on Bluesky's development in > ASF. > > We think that we are supposed to finish code release work of the 4th version > in the end of July.Due to the effective work we really need a experienced > mentor to guide our release. In addition, there are about 8-9 developers to > do the release work, some of whom are green hands to release code in ASF > owing to change of team members.We consider that it is important if there is > a disscussion about how to fast acquire this guide instructions. > > By the way, we have been developing the bluesky project. After the release > work of 4th version. We would like to discuss the deployment of the 5th > version including IPTV function and so on. We appreciate collaboraters in > ASF to give us some suggestions about mobile terminal and IPTV. > Who are the current students/developers that worked on the so called 4th version of the code ? The interesting part is that the last JIRA was created on June 2010 (BLUESKY-10), which raises the question on who is actually committing the other students code to the repository. -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Sorry, but the explanation below makes things sound even worse. Apache projects are not here to give students a place to do school work. What you have described is not a community. If the project cannot build a community of people who are interested in the project for more than a school term then it doesn't belong here. Ralph On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, SamuelKevin wrote: > Hi, Noel: > > 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman > >> Joe Schaefer wrote: >>> Chen Liu wrote: We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. >> >>> You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion >>> repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. >> >> Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing for >> the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the future. >> >>> Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance >> between >>> the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the >>> number of people with Apache accounts here (2). >> >> I guess i can explain that. Most of the developers of BlueSky project are > students. As you all know, students come when they join in school and go > after they graduate. So the active developers are around 10. Like we used to > have 5 committers, but now we only have 2 committers in active. > >> Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done via >> the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized. We are a >> development >> community, not a remote archive. >> >>> What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement >> them, >>> who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase as >> peers. >> >> Joe, again, has this on the money. The BlueSky project must immediately >> make significant strides to rectify these issues. Now, not later. >> >> We should see: >> >> 1) All current code in the ASF repository. >> 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed >> up). >> 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list. >> 4) All licensing issues cleaned up. >> >> According to what you've listed, i would forward your suggestion to bluesky > dev list and wish we could make a quick response after > discussion. Appreciate your help. > regards, > Kevin > >> --- Noel >> >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> > > > -- > Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev TeamXJTU > Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech > http://incubator.apache.org/bluesky/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
We really appreciate both of your suggestions on Bluesky's development in ASF. We think that we are supposed to finish code release work of the 4th version in the end of July.Due to the effective work we really need a experienced mentor to guide our release. In addition, there are about 8-9 developers to do the release work, some of whom are green hands to release code in ASF owing to change of team members.We consider that it is important if there is a disscussion about how to fast acquire this guide instructions. By the way, we have been developing the bluesky project. After the release work of 4th version. We would like to discuss the deployment of the 5th version including IPTV function and so on. We appreciate collaboraters in ASF to give us some suggestions about mobile terminal and IPTV. 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman > Joe Schaefer wrote: > > Chen Liu wrote: > > > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software > > > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. > > > You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion > > repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. > > Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing for > the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the future. > > > Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance > between > > the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the > > number of people with Apache accounts here (2). > > Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done via > the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized. We are a > development > community, not a remote archive. > > > What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement > them, > > who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase as > peers. > > Joe, again, has this on the money. The BlueSky project must immediately > make significant strides to rectify these issues. Now, not later. > > We should see: > > 1) All current code in the ASF repository. > 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed > up). > 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list. > 4) All licensing issues cleaned up. > >--- Noel > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Hi, Noel: 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman > Joe Schaefer wrote: > > Chen Liu wrote: > > > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software > > > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. > > > You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion > > repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. > > Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing for > the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the future. > > > Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance > between > > the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the > > number of people with Apache accounts here (2). > > I guess i can explain that. Most of the developers of BlueSky project are students. As you all know, students come when they join in school and go after they graduate. So the active developers are around 10. Like we used to have 5 committers, but now we only have 2 committers in active. > Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done via > the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized. We are a > development > community, not a remote archive. > > > What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement > them, > > who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase as > peers. > > Joe, again, has this on the money. The BlueSky project must immediately > make significant strides to rectify these issues. Now, not later. > > We should see: > > 1) All current code in the ASF repository. > 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed > up). > 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list. > 4) All licensing issues cleaned up. > > According to what you've listed, i would forward your suggestion to bluesky dev list and wish we could make a quick response after discussion. Appreciate your help. regards, Kevin >--- Noel > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev TeamXJTU Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech http://incubator.apache.org/bluesky/
RE: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Joe Schaefer wrote: > Chen Liu wrote: > > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software > > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. > You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion > repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing for the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the future. > Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance between > the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the > number of people with Apache accounts here (2). Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done via the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized. We are a development community, not a remote archive. > What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement them, > who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase as peers. Joe, again, has this on the money. The BlueSky project must immediately make significant strides to rectify these issues. Now, not later. We should see: 1) All current code in the ASF repository. 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed up). 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list. 4) All licensing issues cleaned up. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Sorry, I'm going to pass on this. During the entire time you guys have been at the ASF you have not managed to develop *any* project governance that could be charitably be described as open. You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers. Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance between the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and the number of people with Apache accounts here (2). I don't see any attempts to rectify this other than to say there are cultural issues at play and that "from now on" you'll be using the mailing list to discuss *results*. Frankly this particular issue isn't something that can be written off so easily. What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement them, who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase as peers. That is what open development is all about, and the main reason why your mentors are looking to shut down the project at this point. - Original Message > From: Chen Liu > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 9:12:37 PM > Subject: Bluesky calls for a new mentor! > > Hi,all, > > Now, Bluesky project calls for a new mentor to guide us to complete the > release work of 4th version. > > BlueSky is an e-learning solution designed to help solve the disparity in > availability of qualified education between well-developed cities and poorer > regions of > > China (e.g., countryside of Western China). BlueSky is already deployed to > 12 + 5 primary/high schools with positive reviews.BlueSky was originally > created by Qinghua Zheng and Jun Liu in September 2005. The BlueSky > development is being done at XJTU-IBM Open Technology and Application Joint > Develop Center, more than 20 developers are involved. And it entered > incubation on 2008-01-12. > > BlueSky is consisted with two subsystems -- RealClass system and MersMp > system, both of which contains a set of flexible, extensible applications > such as "Distance Collaboration System", "Collaboration player", > "Collaboration recording tool", "Resources Sharing and Management Platform " > and Access of mobile terminal, designed by engineers and educators with > years of experience in the problem domain, as well as a framework that makes > it possible to create new applications that exist with others. > > Currently,Bluesky project has evolved into the 4th version system with more > flexible applications and stabilities. We had developed the core > applications of bluesky system with QT to support both Windows and Linux. > What's more important, the new version system has the feature of integrated > applications, which means that user can record a video during the > interactive process and then play it in VOD method.The third advancement is > that the 4th version sysytem supports Android platform and we can further > advance Blursky in the mobile domain. > > We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software > Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community. We hope > to encourage contributions and use of Bluesky by other developing countries > with similar education needs. Currently, the new version of BlueSky system > is already handy to release.We really need to add an enthusiastic and > responsive mentor to help us to complete full cycle of successful release.So > we hope that with the help of developers all around the world, the system > could become more powerful and functional in education area. > > We appreciate your attentions to Bluesky project. > > Best regards. > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
