Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Matt Hogstrom 
Fair point Craig ... my head was more around grouping like you had with the 
various DB projects.  Each one was independent but kind of under the DB 
umbrella, right ?  I didn't mean to imply one PMC to rule them all ... bad idea.

On May 12, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:

> For me, not so much.
> 
> A TLP owns a code base and is responsible for it. While I appreciate the 
> sentiment, I don't think it's wise to require that different communities with 
> nothing else in common except "cloud" in their name have to be managed by the 
> same PMC.
> 
> How is "cloud" different from "xml" or "java" or "web" or "database"? We have 
> many communities in Apache that share buzzwords yet have different approaches.
> 
> Craig
> 
> On May 12, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> 
>> thinking about this a little I think a TLP that grouped the Cloud 
>> technologies together make a lot of sense.  With LibCloud, DeltaCloud, 
>> Whirr, etc. as a start there will clearly be some additional projects coming.
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Paul Querna wrote:
>> 
>>> I think it does raise the question, should libcloud graduate to a new
>>> TLP, with a more generic task or providing "cross cloud" APIs and
>>> libraries.
>> 
>> 
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> 
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Oracle
> http://db.apache.org/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> 
> 
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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Paul Querna 
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Craig L Russell
 wrote:
> For me, not so much.
>
> A TLP owns a code base and is responsible for it. While I appreciate the
> sentiment, I don't think it's wise to require that different communities
> with nothing else in common except "cloud" in their name have to be managed
> by the same PMC.
>
> How is "cloud" different from "xml" or "java" or "web" or "database"? We
> have many communities in Apache that share buzzwords yet have different
> approaches.

Right, I think the 3 projects we are talking about can be broken down
into simple lines:

- deltacloud: portable cloud library (with a http interface)
- libcloud: portable cloud library (with a python interface)
- whirr: scripts & tools built on top of the previous two (or other tools)

But my point is not so much about the buzz-wordyness of 'cloud', it
was more about overlapping:
  - committers
  - community concerns:
- cloud portability
- access to APIs and documentation

To me, the set of the community interested in these things will be
similar, and one TLP to wrap them up in that sense makes sense to me,
we have dozens of examples of TLPs with multipe products, and not all
of them are *bad* TLPs.

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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Craig L Russell 

For me, not so much.

A TLP owns a code base and is responsible for it. While I appreciate  
the sentiment, I don't think it's wise to require that different  
communities with nothing else in common except "cloud" in their name  
have to be managed by the same PMC.


How is "cloud" different from "xml" or "java" or "web" or "database"?  
We have many communities in Apache that share buzzwords yet have  
different approaches.


Craig

On May 12, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

thinking about this a little I think a TLP that grouped the Cloud  
technologies together make a lot of sense.  With LibCloud,  
DeltaCloud, Whirr, etc. as a start there will clearly be some  
additional projects coming.


On May 6, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Paul Querna wrote:


I think it does raise the question, should libcloud graduate to a new
TLP, with a more generic task or providing "cross cloud" APIs and
libraries.



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Craig L Russell
Architect, Oracle
http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:craig.russ...@oracle.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Senaka Fernando 
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Luciano Resende wrote:

> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Raymond Feng  wrote:
> > +1. Some existing Apache projects such as Tuscany also have interests in
> this space.
> >
>
> +1 For Paul's suggestion and Raymond's remakrs.
>

+1. Indeed it makes a lot of sense in the user community PoV.

Thanks,
Senaka.

>
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende 
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Luciano Resende 
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Raymond Feng  wrote:
> +1. Some existing Apache projects such as Tuscany also have interests in this 
> space.
>

+1 For Paul's suggestion and Raymond's remakrs.



-- 
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/

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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Raymond Feng 
+1. Some existing Apache projects such as Tuscany also have interests in this 
space. 

Thanks,
Raymond
 
Raymond Feng
rf...@apache.org
Apache Tuscany PMC member and committer: tuscany.apache.org
Co-author of Tuscany SCA In Action book: www.tuscanyinaction.com
Personal Web Site: www.enjoyjava.com


On May 12, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

> thinking about this a little I think a TLP that grouped the Cloud 
> technologies together make a lot of sense.  With LibCloud, DeltaCloud, Whirr, 
> etc. as a start there will clearly be some additional projects coming.
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Paul Querna wrote:
> 
>> I think it does raise the question, should libcloud graduate to a new
>> TLP, with a more generic task or providing "cross cloud" APIs and
>> libraries.
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>

Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Leif Hedstrom 

On 5/12/10 10:29 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

thinking about this a little I think a TLP that grouped the Cloud technologies 
together make a lot of sense.  With LibCloud, DeltaCloud, Whirr, etc. as a 
start there will clearly be some additional projects coming.
   


+1. I think it'll be easier too for "customers" to have one entry point, 
to help figuring out which of our cloud project(s) fit their needs and 
solves their problems.


-- leif


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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-12 Thread Matt Hogstrom 
thinking about this a little I think a TLP that grouped the Cloud technologies 
together make a lot of sense.  With LibCloud, DeltaCloud, Whirr, etc. as a 
start there will clearly be some additional projects coming.

On May 6, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Paul Querna wrote:

> I think it does raise the question, should libcloud graduate to a new
> TLP, with a more generic task or providing "cross cloud" APIs and
> libraries.


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Re: Cross Cloud TLP, was Re: [PROPOSAL] Deltacloud Project

2010-05-06 Thread David Lutterkort 
On Thu, 2010-05-06 at 12:54 -0700, Paul Querna wrote:
> Deltacloud does have some overlap in comitter-ship too, and I think
> fundamentally both communities share very similar interests, even if
> the implementations are different languages.

On a technical level, the overlap is mostly on the modeling level; I
don't think there's much opportunity for sharing code. We definitely
need some coordination between the various cloud API projects (be they
part of ASF or outside of it like jclouds or fog)

To me, this sounds more like finding a way to discuss approaches in a
common place (e.g., a mailing list like the cloudhackers list) and
making sure hte various communities talk to each other (which they
already do)

David



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