RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hello Sanjiva Following your suggestion I have sent a request to champion the POLOKA project to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not sure what the next step will be because, obviously, I cannot subscribe to the private lists. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM To: Mankovskii, Serge Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Hi Serge, Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-). OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities to participate in open source as I see universities as our research division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-). I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find another champion though just because of practical time issues .. In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to make the request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternatively, we can ask the Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation. Sanjiva. Mankovskii, Serge wrote: Hi Sanjiva, It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter Niblett for a while as well! It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to do that. Can you help us there? Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that everybody would be able to use it. Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hello Guillaume Yes, this is the idea. Naweed is studying ServiceMix right now with objective to figure out appropriate way to work WS-BN engine into the ServiceMix architecture. I think Naweed is writing an overview of how that can be accomplished. He is planning to post his findings shortly. I think your suggestion about TLP is right, but first we need to get into the Incubation. We are looking forward to the voting. Exciting stuff! Thank you for the offer to mentor the project! Looking forward to it! Cheers, Serge -Original Message- From: Guillaume Nodet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; general@incubator.apache.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it. About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own (or maybe even a TLP at some point). I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA, but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes. Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself (there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling). That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the spec). - Matching performance It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis. What do you think? We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help! Regards Serge -- Cheers, Guillaume Nodet Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ Open Source SOA http://fusesource.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Sanjiva, I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster university/open source connection and help it grow. Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion, I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and also will try to request Incubator PMC to Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM To: Mankovskii, Serge Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Hi Serge, Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-). OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities to participate in open source as I see universities as our research division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-). I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find another champion though just because of practical time issues .. In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to make the request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternatively, we can ask the Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation. Sanjiva. Mankovskii, Serge wrote: Hi Sanjiva, It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter Niblett for a while as well! It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to do that. Can you help us there? Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that everybody would be able to use it. Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Sanjiva, I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster university/open source connection and help it grow. Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion, I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and also will try to request Incubator PMC to Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM To: Mankovskii, Serge Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Hi Serge, Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-). OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities to participate in open source as I see universities as our research division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-). I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find another champion though just because of practical time issues .. In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to make the request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternatively, we can ask the Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation. Sanjiva. Mankovskii, Serge wrote: Hi Sanjiva, It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter Niblett for a while as well! It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to do that. Can you help us there? Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that everybody would be able to use it. Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Sanjiva, It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter Niblett for a while as well! It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to do that. Can you help us there? Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that everybody would be able to use it. Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the spec). - Matching performance It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis. What do you think? We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help! Regards
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge, Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-). OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities to participate in open source as I see universities as our research division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-). I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find another champion though just because of practical time issues .. In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to make the request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternatively, we can ask the Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation. Sanjiva. Mankovskii, Serge wrote: Hi Sanjiva, It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter Niblett for a while as well! It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to do that. Can you help us there? Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that everybody would be able to use it. Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. Cheers Serge -Original Message- From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it. About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own (or maybe even a TLP at some point). I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA, but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes. Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself (there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling). That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the spec). - Matching performance It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis. What do you think? We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help! Regards Serge -- Cheers, Guillaume Nodet Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ Open Source SOA http://fusesource.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the spec). - Matching performance It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis. What do you think? We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help! Regards Serge -- Thank you! http://blogs.deepal.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to graduation first :). Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation? If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be another; just trying to understand the relationship. Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the proposal starts with Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation ... Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that codebase. What does reference implementation mean? [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..] Sanjiva. Deepal jayasinghe wrote: I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2. Deepal Serge, Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in moving this forward. Best Wishes. thanks, dims On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Davanum, In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects. We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA work in the future. Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers. This way we would be able to support - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and notification consumer - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers. It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is broader than Savan objective in respect to: - Broker support Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing. Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is created, the picture might change. - Subscription WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the spec). - Matching performance It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis. What do you think? We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help! Regards Serge -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
