Re: Mess in jakarta.apache.org/
On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 00:52 -0500, Henri Yandell wrote: Worringly, this is just the flotsam lying around at the top level :) turbine.old/ Old copy of Turbine site. You can nuke that. Sorry about it. Regards Henning -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering What is more important to you... [ ] Product Security or [ ] Quality of Sales and Marketing Support -- actual question from a Microsoft customer survey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: download pages in j.a.o.
Martin Cooper wrote: The problem I have with this change is that it pretty much guarantees that people will completely skip reading anything about the fact that they are downloading from a mirror site, and especially the fact that they need to verify the signature of what they download. If we could put that info before the links, I would be much happier. ;-) Makes sense. O.K. I'll do after January 10 (next year). Sincerely, - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta download pages Was: download pages in j.a.o.
I'm late to this discussion, so pardon if I'm rehashing something said earlier. It would be very advantageous to consider how the ASF Repository factors into the the download picture. I've been hoping to see some integration between the contents of dist and those of dist/java-repository. The ability of the repository download requests to be sent to the mirrors using closer.cgi or something similar would be very powerful. This url structure would be something that helped. http://jakarta.apache.org/download.cgi/commons/lang-1.4.zip Pointing Maven at the asf repository as: http://www.apache.org/download.cgi/repository http://www.apache.org/download.cgi/repository/commons-lang/jars/commons-lang-1.4.jar would begin to use the mirrors more appropriately (if the maven client handles redirects appropriately. better yet, how about a separate virtual host just for downloads that is an implementation of the ASF Repository. http://download.apache.org/jakarta/commons/lang/jars/commons-lang-1.4.jar http://download.apache.org/struts/distributions/struts-x.x.zip http://download.apache.org/xml/xerces/jars/xerces-x.x.jar http://download.apache.org/xml/xerces/distributions/xerces-x.x.zip the download.cgi could handle all requests to the virtual host and properly redirect the user to a mirror. -mark Henri Yandell wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Phil Steitz wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Martin Cooper wrote: I think, if we had a standard template for download pages, each subproject could have its own download page, something like we have for Struts: http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi Agreed, much nicer than the closer.cgi. I'd prefer it if subprojects didn't have to really care about it; ie) they'd just link to: http://jakarta.apache.org/download.cgi/commons/lang-1.4.zip You can link directly now, using the anchors in the main Jakarta download pages, e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi#commons-math Yep. There are two poor things about this: 1) As with the new header, it means most people jump the text on keys/md5 etc. 2) It seems pointless from a user point of view. The bit they're interested in is very small compared to the size of the whole page they're being dumped in. The struts download page is a lot nicer from a user point of view, though one criticism is that the pgp/key stuff is at the bottom of the page there and unlikely to be seen by a downloader too. It's also serving more than one file. I'd like to see each project with links to something like: http://jakarta.apache.org/download.cgi/jakarta/poi/poi-7.2.zip which would show a page that automatically does the pgp/md5 blurb, links to poi-7.2.zip.md5 and KEYS (in the same dir as the zip?) and handles the mirror stuff. We'd use the download.cgi for both binary and source. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta download pages Was: download pages in j.a.o.
Henri Yandell wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Phil Steitz wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Martin Cooper wrote: I think, if we had a standard template for download pages, each subproject could have its own download page, something like we have for Struts: http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi Agreed, much nicer than the closer.cgi. I'd prefer it if subprojects didn't have to really care about it; ie) they'd just link to: http://jakarta.apache.org/download.cgi/commons/lang-1.4.zip You can link directly now, using the anchors in the main Jakarta download pages, e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi#commons-math Yep. There are two poor things about this: 1) As with the new header, it means most people jump the text on keys/md5 etc. Ack. Had not thought about this. I guess that's why most do not link directly now... 2) It seems pointless from a user point of view. The bit they're interested in is very small compared to the size of the whole page they're being dumped in. Agreed in general, though grabbing multiple commons components is something that some people need to do now and then (at least I have). The struts download page is a lot nicer from a user point of view, though one criticism is that the pgp/key stuff is at the bottom of the page there and unlikely to be seen by a downloader too. It's also serving more than one file. I'd like to see each project with links to something like: http://jakarta.apache.org/download.cgi/jakarta/poi/poi-7.2.zip which would show a page that automatically does the pgp/md5 blurb, links to poi-7.2.zip.md5 and KEYS (in the same dir as the zip?) and handles the mirror stuff. We'd use the download.cgi for both binary and source. Sounds good to me. In this case, would we rectify the old components j-c page to present download links to each of the commons components? Phil Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3-column jakarta.apache.org?
I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the lf or anything). Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine. Any views? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
Here's my mockup proposal: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html Changes: 3 column Strikethrough of links/pages I'd like to kill. Less news. Removal of Related section (aim is to make this a new page). Rewrite of the welcome message to hopefully say the same main thing, but use a lot less space. The aim would also be to switch entirely over to the XSL build version which seems to work fine and dump Anakia creation. Hen On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Henri Yandell wrote: I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the lf or anything). Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine. Any views? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:01:27 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my mockup proposal: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html Changes: 3 column Strikethrough of links/pages I'd like to kill. Less news. Removal of Related section (aim is to make this a new page). Rewrite of the welcome message to hopefully say the same main thing, but use a lot less space. This looks OK. The one thing I would change, though, is to get rid of the indentation under the headings (which would probably necessitate a slightly larger gap between the columns). As it is now, with the indent, the center text - and especially the table - becomes a rather tall, skinny column in a default-sized browser window. The aim would also be to switch entirely over to the XSL build version which seems to work fine and dump Anakia creation. +1 -- Martin Cooper Hen On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Henri Yandell wrote: I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the lf or anything). Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine. Any views? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html We might consider changing some of the wording if you are going to refer to projects growing up and leaving. We could refer to Jakarta as a federation of projects, some of which are under the oversight of the Jakarta PMC, and some of which are TLPs in their own right. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Noel J. Bergman wrote: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html We might consider changing some of the wording if you are going to refer to projects growing up and leaving. We could refer to Jakarta as a federation of projects, some of which are under the oversight of the Jakarta PMC, and some of which are TLPs in their own right. I'm loathe to change the message that much simply because I don't think we all agree on what Jakarta is and I want to get the basics (clean/simpler site) done before worrying about whether Jakarta is a basic TLP, or if we are [EMAIL PROTECTED] still. Trying to keep somewhat of a focus :) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Martin Cooper wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:01:27 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my mockup proposal: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html This looks OK. The one thing I would change, though, is to get rid of the indentation under the headings (which would probably necessitate a slightly larger gap between the columns). As it is now, with the indent, the center text - and especially the table - becomes a rather tall, skinny column in a default-sized browser window. Moving to CSS will make this easily solvable. Rather than using blockquote, we can use proper CSS margin indentation etc. I've uploaded a slightly modified version that removes the width from the columns (it was being set to 20,80 still) and adds in the css lines that www.apache.org has. I've also shortened the labels in the About Jakarta section. Some additional reasons for changes: 1) I've simplified the News. Firstly to reduce front page clutter and secondly because I think it's a poor use of our resources to try and manage the other news around Apache. 2) I've struck out the Korean link. Their site hasn't been updated in the last couple of years and so I don't think we're doing anybody a service by linking to it. 3) I struck out the Japanese link. Less bothered about this one, but it's no longer a translation of the Jakarta site in Japanese and seems to be more of a commercial site now. 4) Various parts of Resources struck out. I think this was all covered in previous emails. I think www.apache.org covers these issues now and we don't have to. So as a general theme: remove fluff, stop trying to be [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An Interview with God
An Interview with God: http://www.ikfk.de/interview.html (2004/12/29 04:00:52) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fasten (2004/12/29 04:00:52) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Fasten (2004/12/29 04:00:52) http://homepage.mac.com/bfastenrath/interview.html (2004/12/29 04:00:52) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mess in jakarta.apache.org/
I zapped the 'userGuide' file. I don't see any point in keeping old sites that are being redirected away from anyway. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody will ever see them. However, it would be good to check with the projects that have moved away from Jakarta, to make sure, since they may not be monitoring this list, and they just might care. ;-) Anything obviously broken or dead should go. Not sure what's left after that. -- Martin Cooper On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:52:45 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worringly, this is just the flotsam lying around at the top level :) What on this list cannot be rm -r'd? There's usually one or two important ones in the pile of junk, so I'll be relatively careful. BUGS/ Copy of a CVS/. Odd. bcel.org/ Old copy of BCEL site. broken/ A maven repo by the looks of it. builds/ Old build system. Seems somewhat empty and broken. How long to maintain? buildsite.sh Something to do with TAC. Dead way to build site. cjan/ Dead java-repo for pre-cursor to Maven. commons-mavenized/ Old test Commons site. cvsweb/ Broken symlink. gump/ Entire site, though htaccess is redirecting. How long to maintain this? index-new.html Dead copy of index.html jakarta-gnats.tar.gz Dead bug tracking system. jjar/ Dead java-repo for pre-cursor to Maven. jmeter201/ Copy of JMeter site. Bizarrely seems to be kept up to date. log4j/ Entire site, though htaccess is redirecting. How long to maintain this? main.template Old dead file. ojb/ A simple redirect. How long to maintain this? oldsite.tar.gz Dead old file. pluto/ Entire site, though htaccess is redirecting. How long to maintain this? phoenix/ Broken symlink. resources A struts file. Odd. struts/ Entire site. Redirecting so not viewable. How long to maintain this? tac.jar Something to do with TAC. Dead way to build site. tomcat-4.0/ Bizarre. An installation of Tomcat 4. tomcat-old/ Old copy of Tomcat site. turbine.old/ Old copy of Turbine site. userGuide A struts file. Odd. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:01:27 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my mockup proposal: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html In case anyone wonders, I've dropped Martin Poeschl's 'In Memoriam' from the front page, but plan to have it at the top of the whoweare.html page. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mess in jakarta.apache.org/
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Martin Cooper wrote: However, it would be good to check with the projects that have moved away from Jakarta, to make sure, since they may not be monitoring this list, and they just might care. ;-) I'll initially be emailing the owners of each file/directory asking them to delete it, so they should all get notified that way I think :) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mess in jakarta.apache.org/
Martin Cooper wrote: I don't see any point in keeping old sites that are being redirected away from anyway. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody will ever see them. However, it would be good to check with the projects that have moved away from Jakarta, to make sure, since they may not be monitoring this list, and they just might care. ;-) Feel free to go ahead and get rid of the pluto site. Any history we may need is in subversion. David (Pluto Committer) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
Henri, Looks good. Big improvement, I think :). I especially like how the third column brings more information above the status bar. A few comments: 1) The first paragraph sounds more like it's describing the ASF than describing Jakarta. A suggestion: - The Jakarta Project offers a diverse set of open source Java solutions and is a part of [The Apache Software Foundation] (ASF). Like all ASF [projects] Jakarta encourages a collaborative, consensus-based development process under an [open software license]. - 2) The first sentence of the second paragraph seems awkward to me. It's not immediately apparent why that information is useful. If I don't know what a TLP is it doesn't really help me, and if I'm looking for a TLP that used to be part of Jakarta it doesn't tell me how to find it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to come up with a better wording. Hopefully someone else is feeling inspired :). 3) Graduated on the left needs to be in the context of a noun. Maybe swapping the left and right columns (leaving About on the left) and making the right column Projects with subheadings of Subprojects and Graduated? That might take up too much space, though. 4) Removing the margin from the ul that makes up the news would help spread that section out a bit. -James On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 14:01 -0500, Henri Yandell wrote: Here's my mockup proposal: http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html Changes: 3 column Strikethrough of links/pages I'd like to kill. Less news. Removal of Related section (aim is to make this a new page). Rewrite of the welcome message to hopefully say the same main thing, but use a lot less space. The aim would also be to switch entirely over to the XSL build version which seems to work fine and dump Anakia creation. Hen On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Henri Yandell wrote: I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the lf or anything). Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine. Any views? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, James Mason wrote: Henri, Looks good. Big improvement, I think :). I especially like how the third column brings more information above the status bar. A few comments: Thanks :) 1) The first paragraph sounds more like it's describing the ASF than describing Jakarta. A suggestion: - The Jakarta Project offers a diverse set of open source Java solutions and is a part of [The Apache Software Foundation] (ASF). Like all ASF [projects] Jakarta encourages a collaborative, consensus-based development process under an [open software license]. - It actually is meant to be describing the ASF :) To cut down on text, I threw away 'jakarta, like all ASF, encourages...' to the simpler 'ASF encourages'. It's just as true and uses less space. I'd like to dump 'for all its projects' to be honest, but didn't want to lose the link to the ASF Project page. It's tempting to chop the last 4 words and add a ASF link on the right, together with the other ASF ones, under a new heading of About Apache or something. 2) The first sentence of the second paragraph seems awkward to me. It's not immediately apparent why that information is useful. If I don't know what a TLP is it doesn't really help me, and if I'm looking for a TLP that used to be part of Jakarta it doesn't tell me how to find it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to come up with a better wording. Hopefully someone else is feeling inspired :). Two big parts I'm looking for in this paragraph. 1) Jakarta = umbrella project. I don't want to say umbrella as that's an odd metaphor to the uninitiated. 2) Definition of graduating, attempt at an explanation of why projects are no longer to be found in Jakarta (a common user confusion I think). The TLP acronym isn't highly important (at first I thought it was good to get it accross, but it's too much info). Linking to the bit above, I could dump the TLP acronym and make this the link to the ASF project page. 3) Graduated on the left needs to be in the context of a noun. Maybe swapping the left and right columns (leaving About on the left) and making the right column Projects with subheadings of Subprojects and Graduated? That might take up too much space, though. Gah! Much as I want to scoff at the suggestion for the pain it causes, I think you're right, to be correct it should be a noun. Putting the projects on the right was an option, but I think that consumers will mostly want to click through to a subproject, rather than any other link there and the LHS is the prime navigation spot. It also matches the www.apache.org approach, which is nice for the symmetry of a user clicking through and not having to adjust their navigation flow. Possibly I could change Graduated to Graduated Subprojects? Seems a bit long. 'Graduates' seems wrong. Looking for a good label here :) 4) Removing the margin from the ul that makes up the news would help spread that section out a bit. Yep. I'm going to hassle a few web designers I know on spacing issues once I've updated the XSL build to output this site. All their suggestions will involve CSS, so I'll need to have a CSS sheet by then I suspect. Thoughts? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:41:00 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, James Mason wrote: Henri, Looks good. Big improvement, I think :). I especially like how the third column brings more information above the status bar. A few comments: Thanks :) 1) The first paragraph sounds more like it's describing the ASF than describing Jakarta. A suggestion: - The Jakarta Project offers a diverse set of open source Java solutions and is a part of [The Apache Software Foundation] (ASF). Like all ASF [projects] Jakarta encourages a collaborative, consensus-based development process under an [open software license]. - It actually is meant to be describing the ASF :) To cut down on text, I threw away 'jakarta, like all ASF, encourages...' to the simpler 'ASF encourages'. It's just as true and uses less space. I'd like to dump 'for all its projects' to be honest, but didn't want to lose the link to the ASF Project page. It's tempting to chop the last 4 words and add a ASF link on the right, together with the other ASF ones, under a new heading of About Apache or something. 2) The first sentence of the second paragraph seems awkward to me. It's not immediately apparent why that information is useful. If I don't know what a TLP is it doesn't really help me, and if I'm looking for a TLP that used to be part of Jakarta it doesn't tell me how to find it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to come up with a better wording. Hopefully someone else is feeling inspired :). Two big parts I'm looking for in this paragraph. 1) Jakarta = umbrella project. I don't want to say umbrella as that's an odd metaphor to the uninitiated. 2) Definition of graduating, attempt at an explanation of why projects are no longer to be found in Jakarta (a common user confusion I think). The TLP acronym isn't highly important (at first I thought it was good to get it accross, but it's too much info). Linking to the bit above, I could dump the TLP acronym and make this the link to the ASF project page. 3) Graduated on the left needs to be in the context of a noun. Maybe swapping the left and right columns (leaving About on the left) and making the right column Projects with subheadings of Subprojects and Graduated? That might take up too much space, though. Gah! Much as I want to scoff at the suggestion for the pain it causes, I think you're right, to be correct it should be a noun. Putting the projects on the right was an option, but I think that consumers will mostly want to click through to a subproject, rather than any other link there and the LHS is the prime navigation spot. It also matches the www.apache.org approach, which is nice for the symmetry of a user clicking through and not having to adjust their navigation flow. Possibly I could change Graduated to Graduated Subprojects? Seems a bit long. 'Graduates' seems wrong. Looking for a good label here :) Alumni? -- Martin Cooper 4) Removing the margin from the ul that makes up the news would help spread that section out a bit. Yep. I'm going to hassle a few web designers I know on spacing issues once I've updated the XSL build to output this site. All their suggestions will involve CSS, so I'll need to have a CSS sheet by then I suspect. Thoughts? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?
Comments below. On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 21:41 -0500, Henri Yandell wrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, James Mason wrote: Henri, Looks good. Big improvement, I think :). I especially like how the third column brings more information above the status bar. A few comments: Thanks :) 1) The first paragraph sounds more like it's describing the ASF than describing Jakarta. A suggestion: - The Jakarta Project offers a diverse set of open source Java solutions and is a part of [The Apache Software Foundation] (ASF). Like all ASF [projects] Jakarta encourages a collaborative, consensus-based development process under an [open software license]. - It actually is meant to be describing the ASF :) To cut down on text, I threw away 'jakarta, like all ASF, encourages...' to the simpler 'ASF encourages'. It's just as true and uses less space. I'd like to dump 'for all its projects' to be honest, but didn't want to lose the link to the ASF Project page. It's tempting to chop the last 4 words and add a ASF link on the right, together with the other ASF ones, under a new heading of About Apache or something. How important is it to put the projects link right in text? I like the way it reads without the last four words, so if it works to put the link elsewhere I think it would be good. 2) The first sentence of the second paragraph seems awkward to me. It's not immediately apparent why that information is useful. If I don't know what a TLP is it doesn't really help me, and if I'm looking for a TLP that used to be part of Jakarta it doesn't tell me how to find it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to come up with a better wording. Hopefully someone else is feeling inspired :). Two big parts I'm looking for in this paragraph. 1) Jakarta = umbrella project. I don't want to say umbrella as that's an odd metaphor to the uninitiated. How about parent? 2) Definition of graduating, attempt at an explanation of why projects are no longer to be found in Jakarta (a common user confusion I think). The TLP acronym isn't highly important (at first I thought it was good to get it accross, but it's too much info). Linking to the bit above, I could dump the TLP acronym and make this the link to the ASF project page. Hmmm... How about Jakarta shepherds?? many [subprojects], many of which have grown and [graduated] into top level ASF [projects]. Some synonyms for shepherds: guides, oversees, supervises, watches over, is responsible for. I think it would be good to link to the list of graduated projects from the text. 3) Graduated on the left needs to be in the context of a noun. Maybe swapping the left and right columns (leaving About on the left) and making the right column Projects with subheadings of Subprojects and Graduated? That might take up too much space, though. Gah! Much as I want to scoff at the suggestion for the pain it causes, I think you're right, to be correct it should be a noun. Putting the projects on the right was an option, but I think that consumers will mostly want to click through to a subproject, rather than any other link there and the LHS is the prime navigation spot. It also matches the www.apache.org approach, which is nice for the symmetry of a user clicking through and not having to adjust their navigation flow. Looking at apache.org, how about moving the About Jakarta section to the right. This would parallel the Foundation section on apache.org. What I was thinking of for projects is something like: ++ |=Projects===| +--Subprojects---+ | * Alexandia| | * etc... | +--Graduated-+ | * Ant | | * etc... | ++ I have two concerns with this: It takes up more space and nothing else uses subheadings. It does put Graduated into context with a noun, though. Possibly I could change Graduated to Graduated Subprojects? Seems a bit long. 'Graduates' seems wrong. Looking for a good label here :) 4) Removing the margin from the ul that makes up the news would help spread that section out a bit. Yep. I'm going to hassle a few web designers I know on spacing issues once I've updated the XSL build to output this site. All their suggestions will involve CSS, so I'll need to have a CSS sheet by then I suspect. If you need a hand here, let me know. Part of my day job is web design. -James Thoughts? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mess in jakarta.apache.org/
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, David H. DeWolf wrote: Martin Cooper wrote: I don't see any point in keeping old sites that are being redirected away from anyway. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody will ever see them. However, it would be good to check with the projects that have moved away from Jakarta, to make sure, since they may not be monitoring this list, and they just might care. ;-) Feel free to go ahead and get rid of the pluto site. Any history we may need is in subversion. Thanks. Moved to pluto.2delete/. I'll strip the 2delete's out after an undisclosed period of time. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
