Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation

[Paul de Vrieze]

On Monday 31 July 2006 14:53, Bryan Ãstergaard wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 01:01:20PM +0200, Christian Andreetta wrote:
> > Many users (and I'm both a dev *and* a user) just could do much for
> > Gentoo, but when you're interested in a niche sector package, you *don't
> > have other choices* but
> >
> > 1) an endless wait for an open bug
> > 2) becoming dev for the good of all :-)
> > 3) just use your personal overlay, without sharing the results of your
> > efforts. If the bug in 1) is still open, why updating it with your
> > latest patches/revision bumps?
>
> 4) Bash devs to add your ebuild

Which one exactly. The point is that it is not on a dev's turf.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net


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Re: [gentoo-dev] atom matching behavior

[Harald van Dijk]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2006 at 07:07:35AM +0200, Marius Mauch wrote:
> Repost from gentoo-portage-dev[1]:
> 
> Was just brought to my attention that the =* operator doesn't work as I
> thought, as for example =foo-1.2* matches foo-1.20 as well as foo-1.2.3.
> This wouldn't be a bug problem if it could be used as a general glob
> operator like with =foo-1.2.*,

Even if that would be supported, it wouldn't match foo-1.2, unless
the meaning of * changes.

> but it's use is strictly limited to the
> above version (can only be used when a version component separator may
> appear), so atm there is no facility to reliably lock an atom at a
> specific version component when you have to account for multi-digit
> components.
> Now the question is if we want this glob-style behavior or not. From
> the code comments it seems to be intentional, but I'd suspect that many
> people share my original assumption and expect it to only match full
> version components (as that is the much more common use case). Doesn't
> help that the atom description in ebuild(5) doesn't specify the
> behavior for this case either, 
> 
> "*  means  match  any version of the package so long as the specified
> base is matched"
> 
> can be read both ways.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> Marius

For packages with MMDD versions, =c/p-2005* can make sense, and
I have used this in the past. Please continue to allow that, and
possibly provide an alternative syntax for what you currently expect
=c/p-v* to do (=c/p-v.* -- if it doesn't require the . -- being a
possibility).
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] test request - gnutls-1.4.1 and libtasn1-0.3.4

[Daniel Black]

I've added new versions of these libs to gentoo. They are currently in 
package.mask because I've missed a few bumps versions in between and there is 
an ABI change. Some old deprecated functions have been removed.

So far these have been working for me fine however I'd appreciate your 
assistance in further testing these before I unmask them.

To participate please:
1. add
~net-libs/gnutls-1.4.1
~dev-libs/libtasn1-0.3.4
to /etc/portage/package.unmask and /etc/portage/package.keywords files.

2. run revdep-rebuild

3. and report bugs on bugs.gentoo.org

Appreciate your assistance in this manner.

-- 
Daniel Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo Crypto/Forensics/NetMon


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Donnie Berkholz]

Lance Albertson wrote:

I think the point a lot of people are concerned about are packages that
contain libraries or other dependencies that reside in the sunrise tree.
There's a good chance that a package in the regular tree will link
against a package from sunrise, the user will have no idea or forget
that they installed that app from sunrise (and the dep exists), and a
bug arises. Who's fault is it? Is it the package maintainer in the
regular tree, or sunrise? How do you stop excessive bug traffic for
issues like this?


You create `emerge --info` output that details any packages on the 
system installed from an overlay.


Thanks,
Donnie
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[gentoo-dev] atom matching behavior

[Marius Mauch]

Repost from gentoo-portage-dev[1]:

Was just brought to my attention that the =* operator doesn't work as I
thought, as for example =foo-1.2* matches foo-1.20 as well as foo-1.2.3.
This wouldn't be a bug problem if it could be used as a general glob
operator like with =foo-1.2.*, but it's use is strictly limited to the
above version (can only be used when a version component separator may
appear), so atm there is no facility to reliably lock an atom at a
specific version component when you have to account for multi-digit
components.
Now the question is if we want this glob-style behavior or not. From
the code comments it seems to be intentional, but I'd suspect that many
people share my original assumption and expect it to only match full
version components (as that is the much more common use case). Doesn't
help that the atom description in ebuild(5) doesn't specify the
behavior for this case either, 

"*  means  match  any version of the package so long as the specified
base is matched"

can be read both ways.

Opinions?

Marius

[1]
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.portage.devel/2231/focus=2231

-- 
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Brian Harring]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:27:04PM -0500, Lance Albertson wrote:
> Brian Harring wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:05:15PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> 
> >> Local overlays are fine as the user exactly knows what he does in his 
> >> private 
> >> overlay (and hopefully follows eclass changes), development overlays are 
> >> fine 
> >> (assuming the group of people controls the releavant overlays as well), 
> >> overlays like Sunrise are problematic, not to use such anal words as you 
> >> do.
> > 
> > Why are they problematic?  Because of your assumption that they won't 
> > maintain it?
> > 
> > It's the same thing as gentoo-x86 (I will keep stating that till it's 
> > grilled into peoples heads also), this is _not_ a new issue so why are 
> > people leveling issues of gentoo-x86 as new issues of sunrise?
> > 
> > So someone goes and breaks something in gentoo-x86 that breaks 
> > something for sunrise.  Fine, it's sunrises' mess to clean up; they've 
> > volunteered to do this work, I don't see how you can claim it as a 
> > negative when they've accepted it as part of _their_ work.
> 
> I think the point a lot of people are concerned about are packages that
> contain libraries or other dependencies that reside in the sunrise tree.
> There's a good chance that a package in the regular tree will link
> against a package from sunrise, the user will have no idea or forget
> that they installed that app from sunrise (and the dep exists), and a
> bug arises.

http://www.gentoo-sunrise.org/sunrise/wiki/SunriseFaq

Specifically, for those who haven't done their reading, look for the 
"Can I commit everything I like to the overlay", specifically the 
rules involved for what goes in.

The short and skiny is that the arguement of "they'll have some 
package that breaks my package" is kind of daft- sunrise won't hold 
version bumps for packages in the tree (one exception to this is 
maintainer-needed that has sat, perhaps they can clarify that corner 
case).

For the maintainer-wanted, the developer who pulls the package in 
*should* be lifting from sunrise already.  Why?  Because whats there 
has actually been exposed to users, rather then them relying on a 
simple eyeballing of the ebuild from bugzilla instead.

That leaves the "will link against a package from sunrise"... covered 
the potentials above, the remaining case is a package in the tree 
linking against a maintainer-needed ebuild.

Funny thing, that's actually a bug in the developers package.  Daft I 
know, but it's actually a *good* thing to smoke those out, there 
should be no unstated linkage (if it ain't in the deps, it's 
a bug to use/link to it).


> Who's fault is it? Is it the package maintainer in the
> regular tree, or sunrise?

> How do you stop excessive bug traffic for issues like this?

Assumption is that there will be excessive bug traffic for issues like 
that.  Rules above imo lay it out well enough I don't think it'll 
occur at the level of "excessive".  Basically, sky is falling 
predictions- no one has hard facts since this is hypothetical, so it 
would be *nice* if people would at least recognize that they may be 
barking at a minimal issue.

*Plus*, with sunrise under gentoos thumb if it proves to be more 
trouble then it's worth, the plug can be pulled- that's the trade of 
it being official, they get hosting, y'all get an actual say in what 
they do.

If they do it externally, ain't much you can do- can't demand they do 
something (result of that if it were me would be a mooning), stuck 
requesting them to do what _y'all_ want.


> Another issue I think people are ignoring here is the fact that sunrise
> isn't focused on a particular part of the tree. I think Ciaran made a
> point earlier (that was probably ignored) about the fact of why we have
> herds in the regular tree. They aren't perfect, but they still do a
> decent job of gathering people who have a good understand about a
> certain group of packages. I have a hard time believing that the same
> type of quality exists with the number of devs working on it. The
> difference between sunrise and say the php overlay is the fact that
> sunrise isn't focused on a set of packages (just ones that people want
> that aren't in the tree) compared to a focused set for a specific
> purpose (php).

What is sunrises reason for existance?

It's meant to hold ebuilds that _rot_ in bugzilla in a place where 
people can work on them as needed, and folks who need the packages can 
use them.  They may get bit in the ass since it's a fairly raw repo 
(despite reviewed branch), but the purpose here is different; it's not 
intended as a dumping ground (and if it becomes one, council has 
stated their intentions), it's intended as a repo for people to get at 
the ebuilds in an easier way, and improve those ebuilds if there is 
interest.


> The more I think about it, I think there needs to be a separation
> between "a sandbox for users to hone their ebuild skills" and "these
> packages are

Re: [gentoo-dev] The gnome king is dead, long live the gnome king

[Aron Griffis]

foser wrote:  [Mon Jul 31 2006, 04:20:14PM EDT]
> tonight after a some deliberation I have decided to step down as gnome
> lead in favor of AllanonJL.

Thanks for leading Gentoo's Gnome for so long, foser.

> thanks for your time,
> Marinus

This must be a pretty serious announcement; I don't think I've ever
seen you sign your name to an email :-)

Aron
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Lance Albertson]

Brian Harring wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:05:15PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote:

>> Local overlays are fine as the user exactly knows what he does in his 
>> private 
>> overlay (and hopefully follows eclass changes), development overlays are 
>> fine 
>> (assuming the group of people controls the releavant overlays as well), 
>> overlays like Sunrise are problematic, not to use such anal words as you do.
> 
> Why are they problematic?  Because of your assumption that they won't 
> maintain it?
> 
> It's the same thing as gentoo-x86 (I will keep stating that till it's 
> grilled into peoples heads also), this is _not_ a new issue so why are 
> people leveling issues of gentoo-x86 as new issues of sunrise?
> 
> So someone goes and breaks something in gentoo-x86 that breaks 
> something for sunrise.  Fine, it's sunrises' mess to clean up; they've 
> volunteered to do this work, I don't see how you can claim it as a 
> negative when they've accepted it as part of _their_ work.

I think the point a lot of people are concerned about are packages that
contain libraries or other dependencies that reside in the sunrise tree.
There's a good chance that a package in the regular tree will link
against a package from sunrise, the user will have no idea or forget
that they installed that app from sunrise (and the dep exists), and a
bug arises. Who's fault is it? Is it the package maintainer in the
regular tree, or sunrise? How do you stop excessive bug traffic for
issues like this?

Another issue I think people are ignoring here is the fact that sunrise
isn't focused on a particular part of the tree. I think Ciaran made a
point earlier (that was probably ignored) about the fact of why we have
herds in the regular tree. They aren't perfect, but they still do a
decent job of gathering people who have a good understand about a
certain group of packages. I have a hard time believing that the same
type of quality exists with the number of devs working on it. The
difference between sunrise and say the php overlay is the fact that
sunrise isn't focused on a set of packages (just ones that people want
that aren't in the tree) compared to a focused set for a specific
purpose (php).

The more I think about it, I think there needs to be a separation
between "a sandbox for users to hone their ebuild skills" and "these
packages aren't in the tree yet, lets make the available somewhere
else". Perhaps the better solution is to have the herds manage their own
set of overlays must like php does. I imagine many herds won't have a
need for it, while others would (and probably already using it). What's
the real purpose of sunrise then? The sandbox/learning ground? Or a
place for ebuilds that are stuck in bugs? The sunrise project has been
fighting on the grounds of learning aspect, but most of the people are
having issues with the ebuild stomping ground side. If I remember right,
the primary reason the council voted to re-enact sunrise was because of
the learning side of it. I don't doubt that (if done right) would be a
great thing, but I have concerns on the implementation of the latter.

For an example:

To me, it would work better if the netmon herd brought on a user to help
with the netmon overlay. They would get specific 'training' on working
on netmon ebuilds. They could have done the 'bootcamp' at sunrise
initially, then moved onto the herd overlay for something a bit more
organized and better maintained. This would produce a part of the QA
that some people are in a fuss about, and some better organization.
Heck, maybe even some interaction with the sunrise group and netmon herd
would be great so that the education continues, but on other watchful eyes.

Basically, it boils down to organization of ebuilds and how they are
being watched. A group that watches all isn't a good idea to me, my idea
above makes more sense.

Anyways, I've been trying to keep quiet on this issue and decided I
could interject here :)

Cheers-

-- 
Lance Albertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager

---
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Lance Albertson]

Brian Harring wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:05:15PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
>> First I'd like to state that I do offer my opinion. You don't have to like 
>> it, 
>> but disqualifying it as flaming, while exactly doing this yourself, 
>> disqualifies you.
> 
> *cough*.  bit hypocritical for you to lecture me about viewing 
> your statements as 'flaming', and in the same breath label 
> my own as 'flaming' ;)
> 
> Why am I pointing this out?  My initial points were that of "why the 
> double standard", with you providing an apt example (while that's 
> barbed, you did provide a perfect refresher of the definition).
> 
> 
>> I'd appreciate, if you would try to have a controversial 
>> discussion, without starting to loose your manners.
> 
> And I'd appreciate a less condescending tone.

Can you two please stop with this child-like circle of blame? Its really
starting to get old. You don't need to have the last word on every
argument (either of you). If neither of you can agree, then just agree
to disagree. *gasp* Yes, that is an option in a technical debate. No
matter what either of you two think is technically right, you're both
right and both wrong.

/me goes back to lurking

-- 
Lance Albertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Brian Harring]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:05:15PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> First I'd like to state that I do offer my opinion. You don't have to like 
> it, 
> but disqualifying it as flaming, while exactly doing this yourself, 
> disqualifies you.

*cough*.  bit hypocritical for you to lecture me about viewing 
your statements as 'flaming', and in the same breath label 
my own as 'flaming' ;)

Why am I pointing this out?  My initial points were that of "why the 
double standard", with you providing an apt example (while that's 
barbed, you did provide a perfect refresher of the definition).


> I'd appreciate, if you would try to have a controversial 
> discussion, without starting to loose your manners.

And I'd appreciate a less condescending tone.


> On Wednesday 02 August 2006 03:39, Brian Harring wrote:
> > 1) no security,
> >
> > Suggest you read their responses, and look into some of their material
> > (in particular their faq).
> >
> > Two levels.
> >
> > One, holding area (essentially).
> > Second level (what users get), is the reviewed branch.
> >
> > So... if you're arguing people can stick malicious shit into the first
> > level, yes, they could.
> > [...] 
> 
> You haven't read what I wrote, as I asked you to do.

You wrote 'no security'.  That's pretty fricking vague, can cover 
everything from no verification of sync'd contents, to their vcs 
security, to their screening processes, to vulns in their packages.

If you wanted to home in vulns in the source (which isn't security as 
much as 'vulnerabilities in the source'), be explicit.

Now on to the real points (yay)...

> My point isn't that 
> people add malicious ebuilds to the overlay. There're more subtle methods 
> anyway, given that the tree still isn't signed. I wrote about vulnerablities 
> in the upstream software, neither having a security team backing them up nor 
> GLSA's to be written.

1) same issue with the ebuilds sitting in bugzilla, going to hunt 
through bugzie marking each submitted ebuild when a security bug hits?

2) Response to that is that "there is no claim of support"- which is 
the same for sunrise.  Why are the rules different for sunrise then?

3) Assumption that sunrise will just be a dumping ground, without any 
form of maintainance is implicit here- if it becomes as such, already 
was stated it would get wedgied by the council.  So that leaves the 
angle of "they don't have a security team", which implies to actually 
handle nuking vulnerable ebuilds, one has to have a security team 
(obviously false).

Besides... frankly it's kind of BS to push the vuln angle onto sunrise 
when gentoo can't even clean out years old vulnerable packages from 
gentoo-x86 (that doesn't absolve sunrise from having to watch it, nor 
a potshot at the understaffed security team, merely that double 
standards suck).

You want to set a standard for 'em, fine, lets use the standard of the 
existing tree when compared to existing glsas- note that there may be 
vulns that gentoo doesn't have glsas for, or vulns that are in the 
security pipeline and haven't yet been issued as a glsa (since gentoo 
issues it after porting).

285 versions out of 24637 vulnerable (~1 out of every 86 vuln)
115 packages out of 11251 vulnreable (~1 out of every 98 vuln)

http://gentooexperimental.org/~ferringb/vuln.log

So... if that's the standard you want to hold them to, fine, state 
so- they may agree to it (although admittedly such a standard is 
stupid, there should be _no_ vuln packages).

Don't automatically assume they'll be worse however, let alone assume 
that gentoo-x86 is perfect (again, no double standards).


> > And... just cause I'm mildly sick of this bullshit,
> 
> And I'm sick of people, who miss the point.

As stated above, be concise then.  Your points came out of pretty 
much nowhere, poorly communicated, and rather vague in actually 
backing them up.  Which... at least from the "backing up the 
complaints", has been the theme for the screaming folk thus far.

If people are missing the point, there are two possibilities- either 
A) everyone else is a moron and too stupid to understand your 
points, or more likely B) you're communicating poorly.

Assuming that the other party is the idiot (a) when more likely then 
not it's you (B) isn't really a good way to try and get your say.


> > > 2) issues with eclass changes which will result in bug spam
> >
> > You're not supposed to change the exposed api of eclasses in the tree
> > (something y'all do violate I might add, which is a seperate QA
> > matter).  Same issue applies to the 'official' overlays offered by
> > devs also, and to the tree in general.
> 
> We can change eclasses all the time, assuming all relevant ebuilds in the 
> tree 
> get adjusted - just that no one cares for any overlay.

No, actually you cannot.

Just because you update the tree doesn't mean you're not going and 
breaking binpkgs, or the vdb installation.

Read glep33 if you want the sordid back history and solution to it.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: last ritest for dev-java/saxon-bin

[Alec Warner]

Duncan wrote:

Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED],
excerpted below, on  Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:45:59 +:


All that said, IMO these qualify for "announcements" as much as the GLSAs
normally inhabiting the announce list do.  That list isn't "glsa", it's
"announce" and these are announcements that could affect a number of
users, so IMO they belong there as well as here.



Too bad posted stuff to announce is a huge pita :)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-im/aim masked for removal

[Thomas Cort]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:18:04 -0700
John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 August 2006 16:12, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> > * Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> > > I've masked net-im/aim, AOL's proprietary offering. It hasn't seen a
> > > release in years, it's binary-only, and it's far less capable than any
> > > other client out there.
> >
> > BTW: could be introduce an separate (optional) masking method
> > for such proprietary stuff ?
> >
> I believe (don't have time to check right now) you'll want to look into 
> ACCEPT_LICENSE

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17367


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[gentoo-dev] Re: last ritest for dev-java/saxon-bin

[Duncan]

Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED],
excerpted below, on  Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:45:59 +:

> Enrico Weigelt wrote:
>> * Petteri R?ty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
>>> dev-java/saxon-bin is going to be removed from the tree as soon as the
>>> from sources version dev-java/saxon gets marked stable on arches that
>>> have saxon-bin stable. I will add a package move and a revision bump so
>>> that user will have a smooth upgrade. I will also adjust app-text/jing
>>> to work with the from sources version.
>> 
>> Are such things also announced separately on some user list ?
>> The problem I see: from the view of an common user (who's not 
>> reading the dev lists) packages they're using suddenly disappear. 
>> They don't have time to handle it properly.
>> 
>> There should be an additional flagging (ie. scheduled for masking
>> or removal), maybe such flags could be put into an separate
>> database (ie. some textfile available via web or rsync).
>> 
> 
> Things scheduled for removal (by treecleaners, and I hope by many) enter
> pmask prior to removal; this is really the current system of notification.

Just to add... 30 days is the usual package mask.  As AW states, the idea
of the mask is so users will have time after masking to save the masked
ebuild to their overlay and/or file a bug saying they use it, as well as
that it's a wake-up call for any devs, if they want it saved, to get busy
and take over maintenance and start fixing the bugs that having remained
unfixed for so long, got the package masked in the first place.

If a user isn't syncing and updating at least once a month, well... the
ebuilds and related files remain available from viewCVS, which is open to
the public, so they can still be retrieved and stuck in an overlay, if
necessary, and Gentoo devs can of course fix the bugs and return the
ebuild to the tree, if they believe it's worth it.  The files aren't gone
without a trace, forever.

All that said, IMO these qualify for "announcements" as much as the GLSAs
normally inhabiting the announce list do.  That list isn't "glsa", it's
"announce" and these are announcements that could affect a number of
users, so IMO they belong there as well as here.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Replacing cpu-feature USE flags

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Harald van D??k <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:

hi,

> What would it do if a gcc-specific option is used for which 
> the real compiler does not provide any option, even with a 
> different name? 

hmm, tricky. 

I've filed an bug in gcc-upstream for an similar issue, where
gcc/ld is missing some an flag allowing to filter exported 
symbols of shared libs. Hopefully this issue will be solved
soon by the gcc team. Until then I have to strip off that option,
hoping it does not break anything.

But nevertheless it would be a great step to adapt at least
those options which are supported. Completely unsupported 
options (which cannot be substituted somehow) are a major
problem anyways.


cu
-- 
-
 Enrico Weigelt==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-im/aim masked for removal

[Donnie Berkholz]

Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> BTW: could be introduce an separate (optional) masking method 
> for such proprietary stuff ?
> 
> I personally don't want to have such stuff on my system, but I'm 
> really too lazy for check each package I intend to install by
> its own. 
> 
> Would also be cool to have database for those things which is 
> easy to query.

I suppose what you want is true enforcement of ACCEPT_LICENSE, in which
you specify acceptable licenses.

Thanks,
Donnie



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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-im/aim masked for removal

[John Myers]

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 16:12, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> > I've masked net-im/aim, AOL's proprietary offering. It hasn't seen a
> > release in years, it's binary-only, and it's far less capable than any
> > other client out there.
>
> BTW: could be introduce an separate (optional) masking method
> for such proprietary stuff ?
>
I believe (don't have time to check right now) you'll want to look into 
ACCEPT_LICENSE

-- 
# 
# electronerd, the electronerdian from electronerdia
#


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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-im/aim masked for removal

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> I've masked net-im/aim, AOL's proprietary offering. It hasn't seen a
> release in years, it's binary-only, and it's far less capable than any
> other client out there.


BTW: could be introduce an separate (optional) masking method 
for such proprietary stuff ?

I personally don't want to have such stuff on my system, but I'm 
really too lazy for check each package I intend to install by
its own. 

Would also be cool to have database for those things which is 
easy to query.


cu
-- 
-
 Enrico Weigelt==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
-
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Treecleaner Maskings

[Doug Goldstein]

Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> 
> 
> 
> is this list auto-generated or evrything done by hand ?
> 

This mailing list? Yes. It's auto-generated by monkeys... that's why
there's so many darn messages on there. Occasionally Jeff's (jforman)
goats will come and help the monkeys out when we need to ramp up the
volume.

Hence the phrase... given an infinite amount of monkey's typing for an
infinite amount of time, the Gentoo mailing lists will be recreated.

Oh wait, we were talking about treecleaners... not the mailing list...
Disregard.


-- 
Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/



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Re: [gentoo-dev] last ritest for dev-java/saxon-bin

[Alec Warner]

Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Petteri R?ty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
>> dev-java/saxon-bin is going to be removed from the tree as soon as the
>> from sources version dev-java/saxon gets marked stable on arches that
>> have saxon-bin stable. I will add a package move and a revision bump so
>> that user will have a smooth upgrade. I will also adjust app-text/jing
>> to work with the from sources version.
> 
> Are such things also announced separately on some user list ?
> The problem I see: from the view of an common user (who's not 
> reading the dev lists) packages they're using suddenly disappear. 
> They don't have time to handle it properly.
> 
> There should be an additional flagging (ie. scheduled for masking
> or removal), maybe such flags could be put into an separate
> database (ie. some textfile available via web or rsync).
> 

Things scheduled for removal (by treecleaners, and I hope by many) enter
pmask prior to removal; this is really the current system of notification.

> An tool could check if the current system has some of those
> scheduled packages installed.
> 
> 
> cu

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Treecleaner Maskings

[Alec Warner]

Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> 
> 
> 
> is this list auto-generated or evrything done by hand ?
> 
> 
> cu

I would be shot if it was automated;

i will soon have some nifty bash scripts to generate e-mails and the
pmask file, but they aren't done yet.

All packages are reviewed prior to removal.

packages up for review are either shown to me by another developer with
bugs attached, or are returned via some heuristics (age,staleness,
brokenness, etc).
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] last ritest for dev-java/saxon-bin

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Petteri R?ty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> dev-java/saxon-bin is going to be removed from the tree as soon as the
> from sources version dev-java/saxon gets marked stable on arches that
> have saxon-bin stable. I will add a package move and a revision bump so
> that user will have a smooth upgrade. I will also adjust app-text/jing
> to work with the from sources version.

Are such things also announced separately on some user list ?
The problem I see: from the view of an common user (who's not 
reading the dev lists) packages they're using suddenly disappear. 
They don't have time to handle it properly.

There should be an additional flagging (ie. scheduled for masking
or removal), maybe such flags could be put into an separate
database (ie. some textfile available via web or rsync).

An tool could check if the current system has some of those
scheduled packages installed.


cu
-- 
-
 Enrico Weigelt==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
-
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] metastructure model (was Re: Sunrise contemplations)

[Donnie Berkholz]

Kevin F. Quinn wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:00:56 +0200
> Thierry Carrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Excerpt from the metastructure model, chosen by the majority of devs
>> last year (and not my model):
>> [...]
>> * It may have one or many leads, and the leads are selected by the
>> members of the project. This selection must occur at least once every
>> 12 months, and may occur at any time.
>> [...]
> 
> While we're on the subject of the metastructure model, could we
> consider changing this rule?  It's a little strict, and I suspect it's
> honoured more in the breach than otherwise (by which I mean some,
> perhaps many, projects don't bother to hold a selection process every 12
> months). The 12 month rule makes perfect sense for the council and
> foundation trustees but it's over the top as a rule for all
> projects.
> 
> I would suggest something along the lines of, "selection of
> leadership of a project can occur at any time, but can be forced should
> a majority of the team feel a new selection is necessary", perhaps
> with a rider allowing projects to setup stricter rules if they feel the
> need.  I'm assuming (since I haven't checked) that project membership
> requires agreement of the project (i.e. people can't just join a
> project without the existing project members' agreement).
> 
> The idea being that if the current leadership want to step down they
> can do so and selection occurs within the project by default.  At the
> other extreme, if a lead becomes a pita for everyone else on the
> project, the rest of the project can oust the lead by majority
> decision (hopefully a rare occurrence).

One nice thing about the 12-month model is that it's harder to get on
bad terms with a lead that you'd rather wasn't the lead anymore. It's
less of a feeling of conspiring to oust them and more of a feeling of
"Well, they didn't win the election this time around."

However, it's easy to avoid the election if nobody else accepts a
nomination, as happened in the desktop project. That saves all the hassle.

Thanks,
Donnie



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Treecleaner Maskings

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:



is this list auto-generated or evrything done by hand ?


cu
-- 
-
 Enrico Weigelt==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
-
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] metastructure model (was Re: Sunrise contemplations)

[Kevin F. Quinn]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:00:56 +0200
Thierry Carrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Excerpt from the metastructure model, chosen by the majority of devs
> last year (and not my model):
> [...]
> * It may have one or many leads, and the leads are selected by the
> members of the project. This selection must occur at least once every
> 12 months, and may occur at any time.
> [...]

While we're on the subject of the metastructure model, could we
consider changing this rule?  It's a little strict, and I suspect it's
honoured more in the breach than otherwise (by which I mean some,
perhaps many, projects don't bother to hold a selection process every 12
months). The 12 month rule makes perfect sense for the council and
foundation trustees but it's over the top as a rule for all
projects.

I would suggest something along the lines of, "selection of
leadership of a project can occur at any time, but can be forced should
a majority of the team feel a new selection is necessary", perhaps
with a rider allowing projects to setup stricter rules if they feel the
need.  I'm assuming (since I haven't checked) that project membership
requires agreement of the project (i.e. people can't just join a
project without the existing project members' agreement).

The idea being that if the current leadership want to step down they
can do so and selection occurs within the project by default.  At the
other extreme, if a lead becomes a pita for everyone else on the
project, the rest of the project can oust the lead by majority
decision (hopefully a rare occurrence).

-- 
Kevin F. Quinn


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Jakub Moc]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:49:19 -0500 "Alex Tarkovsky"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | On 8/2/06, Stephen P. Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | > > Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...

> | > Ha ha ha! Oh gosh that's funny! That's really funny! 
> | There's a stark line between satire (my post) and invective (your
> | tirade).
> 
> No no. Stephen's post was beautifully ironic satire. 

ZOMG! This this to gentoo-blurb or whatever else, this thread is long
enough as it is even without this off-topic junk.


-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 GPG signature:
 http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
 Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95  B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E

 ... still no signature   ;)



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:49:19 -0500 "Alex Tarkovsky"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On 8/2/06, Stephen P. Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > > Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...
| > >
| > > http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png
| >
| > Ha ha ha! Oh gosh that's funny! That's really funny! Do you
| > photoshop your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh.
| > Ciaranm is like a scarecrow. You know, I've, I've never heard
| > anyone make that joke before. Hmm. You're the first. I've never
| > heard anyone reference, reference that outside of irc before.
| > Because that's what everyone who disagrees with him says right?
| > Isn't it? He is a scarecrow. And, and yet you've taken that and
| > posted it in this discussion to insult him in this everyday
| > situation. God what a clever, smart person you must be, to come up
| > with a joke like that all by yourself. That's so fresh too. Any,
| > any George W. Bush jokes you want to throw out too as long as we're
| > hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity? God
| > you're so funny!
| 
| There's a stark line between satire (my post) and invective (your
| tirade).

No no. Stephen's post was beautifully ironic satire. Yours was just
a lame attempt at flamebait. Try sticking "Because that is so fresh."
into Google...

| That you don't seem aware of its existence and decided to
| exhibit this ignorance publicly is yet another reason I believe you
| should retire as a Gentoo developer. Please, you're hurting Gentoo.

Again, no, it's a sign that you don't get it and you should keep quiet
until you do. You're filling this list up with noise and not
contributing anything to the discussion. Please stop.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation (was: Project Sunrise resumed)

[Wernfried Haas]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 02:53:58PM -0500, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> http://www.gentoo-sunrise.org/sunrise/wiki/SunriseFaq#ButBugzillaisactuallyeasier

says:
"We do think that Sunrise is easier."
[..]
"But in contrast to that it requires more knowledge and tools to get
something into sunrise - more work for contributors. Also contributors
have to get their ebuilds reviewed before committing - bugzilla is
easier here."

So perhaps some things are more complicated and each solution has
their (dis-)advantages. Hence it's not always best to drop a line to a
FAQ to prove a point.

cheers,
Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Alec Warner]

Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> On 8/2/06, Stephen P. Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...
>> >
>> > http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png
>>
>> Ha ha ha! Oh gosh that's funny! That's really funny! Do you photoshop
>> your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. Ciaranm is like a
>> scarecrow. You know, I've, I've never heard anyone make that joke
>> before. Hmm. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference,
>> reference that outside of irc before. Because that's what everyone who
>> disagrees with him says right? Isn't it? He is a scarecrow. And, and yet
>> you've taken that and posted it in this discussion to insult him in this
>> everyday situation. God what a clever, smart person you must be, to come
>> up with a joke like that all by yourself. That's so fresh too. Any, any
>> George W. Bush jokes you want to throw out too as long as we're hitting
>> these phenomena at the height of their popularity? God you're so funny!
> 
> There's a stark line between satire (my post) and invective (your
> tirade). That you don't seem aware of its existence and decided to
> exhibit this ignorance publicly is yet another reason I believe you
> should retire as a Gentoo developer. Please, you're hurting Gentoo.

I'd prefer you both take your retorts offlist, as neither are on topic here.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation (was: Project Sunrise resumed)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 8/2/06, Roy Marples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 15:27, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> On Monday 31 July 2006 04:28, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> > 1) Users can submit patches/ideas to bugs.g.o at whatever frequency
> > they desire, contributing to gentoo casually.
>
> And the patch hanging in bugzilla forever because no-one wants to maintain
> it. Sunrise could help here, by accepting properly written ebuilds that do
> however not get maintenance.

How does that help?

User goes to bugzilla
or
User goes to sunrise

User still has to go somewhere outside of the tree.

Thanks


http://www.gentoo-sunrise.org/sunrise/wiki/SunriseFaq#ButBugzillaisactuallyeasier
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 8/2/06, Stephen P. Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...
>
> http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png

Ha ha ha! Oh gosh that's funny! That's really funny! Do you photoshop
your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. Ciaranm is like a
scarecrow. You know, I've, I've never heard anyone make that joke
before. Hmm. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference,
reference that outside of irc before. Because that's what everyone who
disagrees with him says right? Isn't it? He is a scarecrow. And, and yet
you've taken that and posted it in this discussion to insult him in this
everyday situation. God what a clever, smart person you must be, to come
up with a joke like that all by yourself. That's so fresh too. Any, any
George W. Bush jokes you want to throw out too as long as we're hitting
these phenomena at the height of their popularity? God you're so funny!


There's a stark line between satire (my post) and invective (your
tirade). That you don't seem aware of its existence and decided to
exhibit this ignorance publicly is yet another reason I believe you
should retire as a Gentoo developer. Please, you're hurting Gentoo.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Carsten Lohrke]

First I'd like to state that I do offer my opinion. You don't have to like it, 
but disqualifying it as flaming, while exactly doing this yourself, 
disqualifies you. I'd appreciate, if you would try to have a controversial 
discussion, without starting to loose your manners.


On Wednesday 02 August 2006 03:39, Brian Harring wrote:
> 1) no security,
>
> Suggest you read their responses, and look into some of their material
> (in particular their faq).
>
> Two levels.
>
> One, holding area (essentially).
> Second level (what users get), is the reviewed branch.
>
> So... if you're arguing people can stick malicious shit into the first
> level, yes, they could.
> [...] 

You haven't read what I wrote, as I asked you to do. My point isn't that 
people add malicious ebuilds to the overlay. There're more subtle methods 
anyway, given that the tree still isn't signed. I wrote about vulnerablities 
in the upstream software, neither having a security team backing them up nor 
GLSA's to be written.


> And... just cause I'm mildly sick of this bullshit,

And I'm sick of people, who miss the point.


> > 2) issues with eclass changes which will result in bug spam
>
> You're not supposed to change the exposed api of eclasses in the tree
> (something y'all do violate I might add, which is a seperate QA
> matter).  Same issue applies to the 'official' overlays offered by
> devs also, and to the tree in general.

We can change eclasses all the time, assuming all relevant ebuilds in the tree 
get adjusted - just that no one cares for any overlay.

> It's a reaching statement, bluntly.  Using such an arguement has the
> side affect of stating that no overlays should ever exist, because
> they suffer the same potentials.

Local overlays are fine as the user exactly knows what he does in his private 
overlay (and hopefully follows eclass changes), development overlays are fine 
(assuming the group of people controls the releavant overlays as well), 
overlays like Sunrise are problematic, not to use such anal words as you do.

> > 3) the fact that sunrise is a bunch of arbitrary packages, instead close
> > related ones managed by one team, that does exactly maintain relevant
> > packages.
>
> What the hell do you think the tree is?  It's a bunch of arbitrary
> packages maintained loosely by subgroups of people; you're stating
> that sunrise is too loose yet gentoo-x86 is fundamentally no
> different.
>
> Sunrise is pretty much the same damn thing.

Exactly that isn't right. No one cares for compatibility of the main tree 
(eclasses, conflicts between ebuilds with regards to installed files) and 
Sunrise ebuilds.


Carsten


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation

[Carsten Lohrke]

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 05:50, Richard Fish wrote:
> Nothing that I have read about sunrise, either in GWN, their project
> pages, or the FAQ, has given me the impression that they are "urging
> all users to give it a try".  There is certainly some advertising
> about it, as would be appropriate for any new Gentoo project.  But
> nothing that I would say gives the slightest hint of "pushiness".

Well, as long as there's no big fat warning that there's not support, no 
security team backing it up - and that the overlay is not meant for general 
consumption, it's very problematic. On the contrary, it's written down that 
the overlay is meant to make a wide range of ebuilds easily available - 
without any measures to secure its consumers.


Carsten


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Sunrise contemplations

[Wernfried Haas]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 03:55:44PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 07:07:31 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | One could argue that since the metastructure policy was approved more 
> | recently, anything in it that contradicts previous rules takes 
> | precedence. "Freedom to make new projects anytime" beats "must use
> | GLEP for significant new feature."
> 
> The metastructure policy doesn't override anything it doesn't
> explicitly say it overrides...

I guess this project may be a grey area considering if a GLEP is
neccessary or not, but then the decision was made by the council based
on the input of the developer community, which seems to be pretty
close to the GLEP process. Not everything can and will ever be covered
by some policy. There already are some examples where making up
policies to cover up single incidents went terribly wrong anyway.

cheers,
Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RT2X00_DEVICE USE_EXPAND

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 10:21, Roy Marples wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 August 2006 15:09, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > Perhaps because other options exist? I'd have suggested WIRELESS_DEVICES
> > (or even ETHERNET_DEVICES or NET_DEVICES) instead, which would work for
> > your case and also be applicable to other packages.
>
> Well, they are specific drivers from the rt2x00 package (rt2400,
> rt2500pci+usb, rt61, rt73 + rfkill support).
>
> I very much doubt that anything outside of rt2x00 would ever use those
> flags. Other network drivers appear to have one tarball for each device,
> whereas rt2x00 is an all-in-one type approach.

if nothing else uses them, what's wrong with local USE flags ?
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Sunrise contemplations

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 07:07:31 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| One could argue that since the metastructure policy was approved more 
| recently, anything in it that contradicts previous rules takes 
| precedence. "Freedom to make new projects anytime" beats "must use
| GLEP for significant new feature."

The metastructure policy doesn't override anything it doesn't
explicitly say it overrides...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Paul de Vrieze]

On Monday 31 July 2006 08:47, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Knowing what the problem is is part of making the solution. The problem
> is not that users can't push arbitrary content into a centralised
> official repository with no oversight from the herds appropriate for
> said content quickly enough. I didn't claim to know exactly what the
> real problem is, merely that it's not what's being solved here.
>
Herds do not have turfs. They specialise in particular areas but that doesn't 
mean that all packages in that area have to fall under the herd.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation (was: Project Sunrise resumed)

[Roy Marples]

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 15:27, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> On Monday 31 July 2006 04:28, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> > 1) Users can submit patches/ideas to bugs.g.o at whatever frequency
> > they desire, contributing to gentoo casually.
>
> And the patch hanging in bugzilla forever because no-one wants to maintain
> it. Sunrise could help here, by accepting properly written ebuilds that do
> however not get maintenance.

How does that help?

User goes to bugzilla
or
User goes to sunrise

User still has to go somewhere outside of the tree.

Thanks

-- 
Roy Marples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo/Linux Developer (baselayout, networking)
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation (was: Project Sunrise resumed)

[Paul de Vrieze]

On Monday 31 July 2006 04:28, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> I do not see why it is considdered hard for users to "get involved".
> Users have at least two choices that I can think of right now, and
> probably a number that I cannot think of.
>
> 1) Users can submit patches/ideas to bugs.g.o at whatever frequency
> they desire, contributing to gentoo casually.

And the patch hanging in bugzilla forever because no-one wants to maintain it. 
Sunrise could help here, by accepting properly written ebuilds that do 
however not get maintenance. Sunrise should not really be about replacing 
current ebuilds, but offering some support for those packages that are useful 
for some, but that do not have enough usage that a developer wants to put it 
into the tree.

>
> 2) Users can take the quizzes and become a developer, I do not see why
> two quizzes is considdered an insurmountable task, the quizzes are
> specifically designed to ensure that people writing ebuilds understand
> what ebuilds can contain and what they cannot, I could not imagine a
> user wanting to install a package from an ebuild written by someone
> that does not know this.

They first need to be invited to start the whole process.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RT2X00_DEVICE USE_EXPAND

[Roy Marples]

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 15:09, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Perhaps because other options exist? I'd have suggested WIRELESS_DEVICES
> (or even ETHERNET_DEVICES or NET_DEVICES) instead, which would work for
> your case and also be applicable to other packages.

Well, they are specific drivers from the rt2x00 package (rt2400, 
rt2500pci+usb, rt61, rt73 + rfkill support).

I very much doubt that anything outside of rt2x00 would ever use those flags. 
Other network drivers appear to have one tarball for each device, whereas 
rt2x00 is an all-in-one type approach.

-- 
Roy Marples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo/Linux Developer (baselayout, networking)
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] RT2X00_DEVICE USE_EXPAND

[Donnie Berkholz]

Roy Marples wrote:

Seeing as this requires discussion according to make.defaults

The rt2x00 cvs driver supports various RT wireless chipsets and the user 
should be able to control which one gets installed. This is also important as 
the cvs portion of a specific driver may break over time.


I've already modified the ebuild AND added the rt2x00_devices.desc file. I 
only found out this apparently requires discussion after the fact. So lets 
discuss :)


Let's also discuss why I cannot just add rtx2x00_devices_rt2500pci to 
use.local.desc without prior discussion which for my purposes has the same 
effect.


Perhaps because other options exist? I'd have suggested WIRELESS_DEVICES 
(or even ETHERNET_DEVICES or NET_DEVICES) instead, which would work for 
your case and also be applicable to other packages.


Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation (was: Project Sunrise resumed)

[Chris Bainbridge]

On 02/08/06, Carsten Lohrke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Monday 31 July 2006 04:52, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 30 July 2006 22:28, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> > 1) Users can submit patches/ideas to bugs.g.o at whatever frequency
> > they desire, contributing to gentoo casually.
>
> load up your browser and check out how many bugs are assigned
> to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'

This isn't the problem. We'll never can maintain all this stuff - given the
number of people we're. We need more devs - just to clean up the current tree
and maintain it properly at it's current size one- or two hundred (having
fluctuation in mind) more guys wouldn't harm. The problem is more that we
have devs who constantly add (arbitrary) stuff to the tree, instead cleaning
out and caring for unmaintained stuff, before adding something new.


The real problem which you're hinting at is that developer interest is
transitory. Nobody thinks "Hell, I'll just add loads of odd crap to
the tree and then ignore it", it just happens that people suddenly
become interested in some software (maybe for a project, or client..),
use it for a while, and then stop using it. Now they are still listed
as a maintainer but don't bother version bumping or bug fixing, since
they no longer have an interest in the package. Despite this, people
keep posting patches to bugzilla, which are ignored (they are lots of
user bug reports with simple patch fixes attached that never make it
into the tree). The "maintainer for ever" model is broken; hopefully
the community maintainer model that Sunrise is encouraging will prove
better over time.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] RT2X00_DEVICE USE_EXPAND

[Roy Marples]

Seeing as this requires discussion according to make.defaults

The rt2x00 cvs driver supports various RT wireless chipsets and the user 
should be able to control which one gets installed. This is also important as 
the cvs portion of a specific driver may break over time.

I've already modified the ebuild AND added the rt2x00_devices.desc file. I 
only found out this apparently requires discussion after the fact. So lets 
discuss :)

Let's also discuss why I cannot just add rtx2x00_devices_rt2500pci to 
use.local.desc without prior discussion which for my purposes has the same 
effect.

Thanks

-- 
Roy Marples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gentoo/Linux Developer (baselayout, networking)
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Stephen P. Becker]

Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...

http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png


Ha ha ha! Oh gosh that's funny! That's really funny! Do you photoshop 
your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. Ciaranm is like a 
scarecrow. You know, I've, I've never heard anyone make that joke 
before. Hmm. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference, 
reference that outside of irc before. Because that's what everyone who 
disagrees with him says right? Isn't it? He is a scarecrow. And, and yet 
you've taken that and posted it in this discussion to insult him in this 
everyday situation. God what a clever, smart person you must be, to come 
up with a joke like that all by yourself. That's so fresh too. Any, any 
George W. Bush jokes you want to throw out too as long as we're hitting 
these phenomena at the height of their popularity? God you're so funny!

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Jochen Maes]

> On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to be a
>> mediocre distribution?
>
> Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...
>
> http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png
but he has a valid point. this is not a step forward!
>
> Cheers.
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Jochen Maes]

> On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to be a
>> mediocre distribution?
>
> Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...
>
> http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png
>
but this time he is right, am i gl
> Cheers.
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] memory leak with gtk+-2.8.20-r1

[Alexandre Buisse]

On Wed, Aug  2, 2006 at 12:26:57 +0200, gwe wrote:

> Hello,
> I use gtk+ for my soft's graphic interface.
[...]
> Someone has the same problem or an solution to solve this leak of memory?  

Hi,
it's best to file a bug at bugs.gentoo.org or post to the gentoo-user
mailing list. This list is for development related to gentoo and not for
support.

Thanks.
/Alexandre

-- 
Hi, I'm a .signature virus! Please copy me in your ~/.signature.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Roy Bamford]

On 2006.08.02 10:51, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:41:10 +0200 "Denis Dupeyron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to
| > be a mediocre distribution?
|
| The real world isn't binary. So there's a whole range of
alternatives
| between elitism and mediocrity.


The alternative to elitism is extinction, in a binary world.



But the quality of an overall product is no greater than the quality
of its worst part...


So the quality of British Rail trains is no better than the sandwiches  
they serve ?
At least the sandwiches are not safety involved, nor made as if they  
were.




--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list


Regards,

Roy Bamford

--
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to be a
mediocre distribution?


Every time you post it's like fingernails on a chalkboard...

http://arcanux.org/scarecrow.png

Cheers.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Sunrise contemplations

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:00:56 +0200 Thierry Carrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| So you can create projects by creating a directory in
| gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en, you don't have to announce it (but it's
| polite to do so), and it may well conflict with other projects,
| that's okay.
| 
| You can't blame them for following the right rule. You can blame the
| rule, though.

You're forgetting the other rule about GLEPs being required for changes
that impact lots of people...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Sunrise contemplations

[Thierry Carrez]

foser wrote:

> I checked back on the initial announcement, where it Sunrise was made
> public as an official Gentoo project without any prior discussion. The
> announcement actually stated 'This is an announcement - No flamewars
> allowed'. I guess the creators were already aware of the feelings of
> some other developers on this issue and decided to just go ahead instead
> of going through the proper channels (GLEP?) and do things as they
> wished. As we all know this can be very effective, but this particular
> time one of the largest and longest ongoing 'discussions' in Gentoo's
> history ensued.
> If you know it's flamewar material, why do you go ahead
> so bluntly with your project ? Why not go trough the proper channels and
> discuss it beforehand in a public place ?

That's just the way to do it.

Excerpt from the metastructure model, chosen by the majority of devs
last year (and not my model):

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0039.html
=
A project is a group of developers working towards a goal (or a set of
goals).

* A project exists if it has a web page at www.g.o/proj/en/whatever that
is maintained. ("Maintained" means that the information on the page is
factually correct and not out-of-date.) If the webpage isn't maintained,
it is presumed dead.

* It may have one or many leads, and the leads are selected by the
members of the project. This selection must occur at least once every 12
months, and may occur at any time.

* It may have zero or more sub-projects. Sub-projects are just projects
that provide some additional structure, and their web pages are in the
project's space.

* Not everything (or everyone) needs a project.

* Projects need not be long-term.

* Projects may well conflict with other projects. That's okay.

* Any dev may create a new project just by creating a new page (or, more
realistically, directory and page) in gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en.
=

So you can create projects by creating a directory in
gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en, you don't have to announce it (but it's
polite to do so), and it may well conflict with other projects, that's okay.

You can't blame them for following the right rule. You can blame the
rule, though.

-- 
Koon
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] memory leak with gtk+-2.8.20-r1

[gwe]

Hello,
I use gtk+ for my soft's graphic interface.
But valgrind make an log file containing approximately 22700 lines for an
simple source code like : 
#include 

int main(int argc, char **argv) {
gtk_init(&argc, &argv);
  GtkWidget *win= gtk_window_new(GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL);
  g_signal_connect(G_OBJECT(win), "destroy", G_CALLBACK(gtk_main_quit), 
NULL);  
  gtk_widget_show_all(win);
  gtk_main();
  return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}
It's difficult to write more simple code...
I've made many searchs on the web but nothing information to resolve this 
problem.
I've recompiling all with : emerge -e world
downgrading all of X parts and gtk+ & glib. But the result are the same.
Visibly the big part of error are in gtk_init -> gdk_display_open and 
XOpenDisplay in libX11

Someone has the same problem or an solution to solve this leak of memory?
Thank you very much.
It's difficult to write more simple code...  
I've made many search on the web but nothing informations to resolve this 
problem.  
I've recompilling all with : emerge -e world  
downgrading all of X parts and gtk+ & glib. 
But results are the same.  
Visibly the most big part of errors are in gtk_init -> gdk_display_open and 
XOpenDisplay in libX11
Someone has the same problem or an solution to solve this leak of memory?  
Thank you very much.
Gwenhaël

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:41:10 +0200 "Denis Dupeyron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to
| > be a mediocre distribution?
| 
| The real world isn't binary. So there's a whole range of alternatives
| between elitism and mediocrity.

But the quality of an overall product is no greater than the quality of
its worst part...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Denis Dupeyron]

On 8/2/06, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to be a
mediocre distribution?


The real world isn't binary. So there's a whole range of alternatives
between elitism and mediocrity.

Denis.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 11:21:38 +0200 Thierry Carrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| Or maybe he means the "Gentoo developers" are an elite group of
| flawless people, blessed by the mighty ebuild quizz ? That elitism
| would in the end kill us, and I thank the Sunrise project for opening
| up Gentoo a little more to the community. We may have to lose a few
| elitist fellows in the process, but I still stand by the Council
| decision that it was the right thing to do.

The alternative to elitism is mediocrity. Would you like Gentoo to be a
mediocre distribution?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation)

[Thierry Carrez]

Brian Harring wrote:

> What the hell do you think the tree is?  It's a bunch of arbitrary 
> packages maintained loosely by subgroups of people; you're stating 
> that sunrise is too loose yet gentoo-x86 is fundamentally no 
> different.
> 
> Sunrise is pretty much the same damn thing.

Or maybe he means the "Gentoo developers" are an elite group of flawless
people, blessed by the mighty ebuild quizz ? That elitism would in the
end kill us, and I thank the Sunrise project for opening up Gentoo a
little more to the community. We may have to lose a few elitist fellows
in the process, but I still stand by the Council decision that it was
the right thing to do.

I just can't see how an ebuild directly committed without peer review to
the tree is necessary better than an ebuild contributed by a power user
and peer-reviewed by a Gentoo developer, ending up in a repository you
have to choose to use...

-- 
Koon
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[gentoo-dev] Final candidate list for Gentoo Council Election 2007

[Thierry Carrez]

Hello everyone,

As far as I can tell, here is the final list of candidates for the
Gentoo Council election for the 2006-2007 period :

CHTEKK
dostrow
Flameeyes
jaervosz
jakub
KingTaco
kloeri
Kugelfang
`Kumba
lu_zero
nattfodd
patrick
pauldv
Pylon
Ramereth
rl03
robbat2
spb
UberLord
vapier
wolf31o2

Please tell me about any errors.

We are a little late in setting up the election software (mostly because
noone volunteered to do the election official job so it falls on the
usual suspects), but the campaign is open : candidates can post "vote
for me !" blurbs, stickers can be put up everywhere and you can start
making up your minds.

-- 
Thierry Carrez (Koon)
Gentoo Council 2005-2006 Member
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007

[Andres Loeh]

> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:02:45 +0200
> From: Patrick Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007

[...]

> So here's my nominations:

[...]

> kosmikus

Thank you very much for the nomination. However, I am currently happy
whenever time allows me to keep up my regular duties for the Gentoo
project.  I would not do a good job on the council. Maybe another year
...

Cheers,
  Andres (kosmikus)


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