Re: [gentoo-dev] New (old) Developer: Deedra Waters (dmwaters)
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:08:48 +0200 Christian Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's my pleasure to welcome back Deedra Waters (also known as dmwaters on > IRC). > > Deedra is joining us from Pensacola, FL. She is going to work on the > accessibility stuff (she is blind), will be re-joining Developer Relations, > and helping the kernel people to fix sparc/amd64 related kernel problems. > > So please give Deedra a warm welcome ! Hah, yet another proof that Gentoo is addictive. Welcome back, make yourself comfortable, and have another shot. -- Andrej "Ticho" Kacian Gentoo Linux Developer - net-mail, antivirus, sound, x86 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New (old) Developer: Deedra Waters (dmwaters)
Nice to have you back with us Deedra!!! On 6/5/07, Andrej Kacian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:08:48 +0200 Christian Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's my pleasure to welcome back Deedra Waters (also known as dmwaters on > IRC). > > Deedra is joining us from Pensacola, FL. She is going to work on the > accessibility stuff (she is blind), will be re-joining Developer Relations, > and helping the kernel people to fix sparc/amd64 related kernel problems. > > So please give Deedra a warm welcome ! Hah, yet another proof that Gentoo is addictive. Welcome back, make yourself comfortable, and have another shot. -- Andrej "Ticho" Kacian Gentoo Linux Developer - net-mail, antivirus, sound, x86 -- Ioannis Aslanidis 0xB9B11F4E -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New (old) Developer: Deedra Waters (dmwaters)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrej Kacian wrote: > Hah, yet another proof that Gentoo is addictive. I wonder when we will be forced to put stickers like "Gentoo may affect your social life" on our media :-) Welcome back, Deedra! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGZYMUozkEeOnWD00RAmAOAKCCpUYKrbA6hv9iV81ngvEdWmMcQwCg1S/u S8NyzI1tHAF1kBlPWHX9c6c= =vGrj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: phasing out app-accessibility/festival
Hello William, On Tuesday, June 5, 2007 06:25:07 AM William Hubbs wrote: > app-accessibility/festival has not done a release upstream in some > time. I don't really *need* festival from an accessibility point of view but I'm using it from time to time and find it quite useful. > Once emacspeak 26 is in the tree, I would like to move festival out of > accessibility, or remove it from the tree. I'd really like to see festival kept in the tree. If that meant having to maintain it myself, I would do it if I absolutely had to. :) Best regards, Wulf pgpXFx4F9BgtP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: new bugzilla resolution: NEEDPATCH
On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:44:08 -0700 "Robin H. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 02:32:22AM +0200, Marius Mauch wrote: > > I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows a number of (enhancement) > > bugs that are fixable, but the assignee doesn't have the motivation > > to come up with a solution, but would look at and eventually > > include a user-submitted patch for it. Currently those would either > > be left open forever or closed as WONTFIX which isn't compeltely > > accurate. Therefore I propose a new bugzilla resolution NEEDPATCH > > so we're not stuck with tons of open bugs that might never be > > closed (or get closed with a somewhat incorrect resolution). It > > might also give people who want to help a simpler target instead of > > browsing through all open bugs and trying to find one where a user > > can work on. > I think a keyword might be more useful, as at least with my bugs, I'd > like to keep them open myself - if the user doesn't provide a patch, > it's still something that I'd get around to doing eventually. Guess keyword works better for that case and solves the main issue as well (filtering). So I've added the new keyword "NeedPatch". Marius -- Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: phasing out app-accessibility/festival
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It can also, Be used by kismet, but it's not clear whether there are strong bindings there, or if espeak could easily be substituted using kismet.conf. Dunno if that's useful or not, but there you go... Mike 5:) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGZbwEu7rWomwgFXoRAudDAKCUpJ9x0txA82bKkgG67TesMxl84ACfVmh0 Nx8uCQX1bhQMGj/sF/aujMw= =+CjA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
*snip* > --8< > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported > package manager on alpha > 21:36 <@eroyf> yes > 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips > 21:36 * eroyf giggles > 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways > 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords > from portage > -->8 > > Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to > build his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and > now we have Paludis. > > Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain > was "The Standard(tm)" *snip* Wow, did you really take that conversation seriously? If so, I feel sorry for you, as it is clearly joke. Clean the sand out of your pee-hole... -Steve signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
> > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported > > package manager on alpha > > This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as such. As is the whole discussion about this 'project'. Addionally, for this topic the borderlines between "joke" and "serious" seem to have blurred in the last few weeks. I am sick of hearing such jokes. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
> --8< > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported > package manager on alpha > 21:36 <@eroyf> yes > 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips > 21:36 * eroyf giggles > 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways > 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords > from portage > -->8 eroyf retired anyways. - So what? hmm.. just wondering why he's still got op in there. Seems like being fashion these days.. -- Christian Hartmann http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/ PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2154E5EE692A4865 Key fingerprint = 4544 EC0C BAE4 216F 5981 7F95 2154 E5EE 692A 4865 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:09:52 +0200 Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..snip..] Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice? *sigh* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200 Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported > > > package manager on alpha > > > > This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as > > such. > > As is the whole discussion about this 'project'. Addionally, for this > topic the borderlines between "joke" and "serious" seem to have > blurred in the last few weeks. That's an awfully vague and FUDdish claim. Care to elaborate? > I am sick of hearing such jokes. Then don't listen. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
Christian Hartmann kirjoitti: >> --8< >> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported >> package manager on alpha >> 21:36 <@eroyf> yes >> 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips >> 21:36 * eroyf giggles >> 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways >> 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords >> from portage >> -->8 > > eroyf retired anyways. - So what? > > hmm.. just wondering why he's still got op in there. Seems like being fashion > these days.. > Because we give people some time to reconsider before going ahead with the retirement process. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200 Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am sick of hearing such jokes. Then ignore them, and don't blow them out of proportion so that everyone else who didn't see them in its original context, and probably doesn't particularly want to, has to see them in the middle of a large thread on -dev. I really cannot see a single reason why starting this thread is/was a remotely good idea. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
On 2007.06.05 21:09, Benjamin Judas wrote: > This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such > (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing > lists, [snip] Ladies and Gentlemen, Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread for 24 hours. For those of you not already 'in the know' humor is not universal. It normally fails at language and cultural boundaries. For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international forums such as are provided by Gentoo. Regards, Roy Bamford, (NeddySeagoon on behalf of gentoo-proctors) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Weller wrote: > Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice? It's just you, there's no dupe. It's just you, there's no dupe. - -- - -- Gustavo Zacarias Gustavo Zacarias Gentoo/SPARC monkey Gentoo/SPARC monkey -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7-ecc0.1.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGZcsKV3G/IBCn/JARArbYAJ4ywkdS68eA8rC+XPA9juS1gjL6vQCfV5pq 6Jmq6rGu8mDv2jDo6SYO8i4= =hsxg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing lists, forums and even websites. It's okay to have dreams, they keep us working on the things we like. But trying to force your dreams to come true annoys other people. If a Gentoo-developer cannot advocate the heart of Gentoo - i.e. Portage - and keeps bitching about it, then he or she should probably consider retiring completely from Gentoo and/or fork Gentoo. In no case, he or she should be talking bullshit (oops, I wrote it) in official Gentoo-channels. This appears to users and other uninvolved people like a kindergarden. The reason for my mail is the following excerpt (Jun. 5th, time CEST) --8< 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported package manager on alpha 21:36 <@eroyf> yes 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips 21:36 * eroyf giggles 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords from portage -->8 Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to build his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and now we have Paludis. Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain was "The Standard(tm)" It is not and hopefully will never be (because then the bitching and whining will finally stop). I'm waiting for the stinky comments from the usual corners. Yours sincerly Beejay -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing lists, forums and even websites. It's okay to have dreams, they keep us working on the things we like. But trying to force your dreams to come true annoys other people. If a Gentoo-developer cannot advocate the heart of Gentoo - i.e. Portage - and keeps bitching about it, then he or she should probably consider retiring completely from Gentoo and/or fork Gentoo. In no case, he or she should be talking bullshit (oops, I wrote it) in official Gentoo-channels. This appears to users and other uninvolved people like a kindergarden. The reason for my mail is the following excerpt (Jun. 5th, time CEST) --8< 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported package manager on alpha 21:36 <@eroyf> yes 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips 21:36 * eroyf giggles 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords from portage -->8 Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to build his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and now we have Paludis. Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain was "The Standard(tm)" It is not and hopefully will never be (because then the bitching and whining will finally stop). I'm waiting for the stinky comments from the usual corners. Yours sincerly Beejay -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported > package manager on alpha This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as such. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:44:23 +0100 Roy Bamford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international > forums such as are provided by Gentoo. Why yes! Gentoo needs to be one hundred percent serious and entirely not fun. Anyone saying anything remotely amusing needs to be shut down by the proctors immediately. Please keep up the good work. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
Am Dienstag 05 Juni 2007 22:37:25 schrieb Ciaran McCreesh: > > I am sick of hearing such jokes. > > Then don't listen. Nono. It's not that easy. New users will have to listen as they have to take things seriously being said on official channels by developers. I'm just telling you what new users tend to think about it. Am Dienstag 05 Juni 2007 22:38:57 schrieb Petteri Räty: > Because we give people some time to reconsider before going ahead with > the retirement process. And that's - out of question - actually a good thing. -- Christian Hartmann http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/ PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2154E5EE692A4865 Key fingerprint = 4544 EC0C BAE4 216F 5981 7F95 2154 E5EE 692A 4865 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:44:23 +0100 Roy Bamford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2007.06.05 21:09, Benjamin Judas wrote: > > This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such > > (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing > > lists, > [snip] > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread > for 24 hours. > > For those of you not already 'in the know' humor is not universal. > It normally fails at language and cultural boundaries. > For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international > forums such as are provided by Gentoo. > > Regards, > > Roy Bamford, > (NeddySeagoon on behalf of gentoo-proctors) This is your official "proctors-using-some-lame-excuse-to-try-and-rationalize-trollish-behavior" response e-mail. Wow, I couldn't disagree more with the proctor's stance on this one. Benny's been around forever, has been involved in many jokes and discussion, and I'm fully confident that he is perfectly capable of telling the difference between that which is a joke and that which is not. Really, he just felt he would take a quote out of context with the intention of starting a flamewar. Don't play the "people can't tell the difference" card on this one. -Steve signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
Peter Weller wrote: > On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:09:52 +0200 > Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [..snip..] > > Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice? > > *sigh* /me blames welp -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
Stephen Bennett wrote: On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200 Benjamin Judas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am sick of hearing such jokes. Then ignore them, and don't blow them out of proportion so that everyone else who didn't see them in its original context, and probably doesn't particularly want to, has to see them in the middle of a large thread on -dev. I really cannot see a single reason why starting this thread is/was a remotely good idea. He thought that some good could have come from it, obviously. Was your behaviour wrong? Not particularly. Was it in bad taste? Definitely. Could his email to the list stop others from making the same mistakes? Hopefully. Seems simple to me... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread > for 24 hours. Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too), replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to do so. So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org http://forums.gentoo.org || http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/proctors/ forum-mods (at) gentoo.org || proctors (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums || #gentoo-proctors (freenode) pgpN6iWiKqiun.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 23:22:04 +0200 "Fernando J. Pereda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Common sense? Where the hell are you? Common sense abandoned Gentoo months ago. Maybe years. Unless it was the other way around, which seems more likely. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Piotr Jaroszyński wrote: > On Tuesday 05 of June 2007 23:13:48 Wernfried Haas wrote: >> So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account >> from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. > > Haven't roy just said that jokes "should normally be avoided in international > forums such as are provided by Gentoo."? > Actually, if you read the snippet from Roy, he points out that the start of the mail says that it will likely start a flame war and requests that people not respond to this thread for 24 hours. I am responding, just as you have, because apparently, neither of us can follow a simple instruction. /me heads back to kindergarten... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGZdlx1c+EtXTHkJcRAsKuAJ9kWogERJ13DWZlzXF7m7+YjIK8BACfUiih pDwonPmvDEvU07mdtbisl38= =TTYY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tuesday 05 of June 2007 23:13:48 Wernfried Haas wrote: > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. Haven't roy just said that jokes "should normally be avoided in international forums such as are provided by Gentoo."? -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
Way to go Proctors! I think you just tipped few more people over the edge. Wernfried Haas wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > >> Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread >> for 24 hours. >> > > Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying > somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail > by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too), > replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to > do so. > > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. > > cheers, > Wernfried > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:08:38 +0100 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Was your behaviour wrong? Not particularly. Was it in bad taste? > Definitely. Could his email to the list stop others from making the > same mistakes? Hopefully. Bad taste depends entirely upon context and upon the people reading it. In the context that the original comment was made, everyone active at the time recognised it for what it was, so it wasn't bad taste. On this list, it is. The mistake was in taking a joke amongst a group of friends out of that context and into a much wider one full of people liable to get their panties in a twist. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. Regardless of whether their postings are viewed as useful or not, this action has gone too far in my opinion. As Gentoo now appears to condone this type of behavior when "dealing" with what are perceived to be problems, I no longer wish to be a part of Gentoo. While at this point there is very little chance of anyone convincing me to return, I hope that the people who can still derive enjoyment from Gentoo continue to do so. Infra, please remove my accounts at your earliest convenience. Thanks, - -- Jason Wever Gentoo/Sparc Team Co-Lead -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGZdkWdKvgdVioq28RAllxAJwMeDIDLgt9sOJ3KYds1OpioVWxHACeMM4l mh2EB41ne19EugLwZjBsBKw= =i6O5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:13:25PM +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread > > for 24 hours. > > Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying > somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail > by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too), > replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to > do so. > > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. Please also suspend your own account. You're clearly replying to Roy's message. It doesn't matter that you're not contributing to the original discussion, because after Roy's message, neither did Ciaran. Feel free to suspend my account as well. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tuesday 05 of June 2007 23:45:22 Steev Klimaszewski wrote: > as you have, because apparently, neither of us can follow a simple > instruction. I couldn't care less about proctors' instructions after their latest decision. -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, 2007-06-05 at 23:13 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread > > for 24 hours. > > Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying > somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail > by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too), > replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to > do so. > > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. As a member of the Council, I find it personally offensive that the Proctors have taken this action on what wasn't even a "problem" thread. I'm sick of this. I call for the immediate disbanding of the Proctors. As much as I dislike many of the posts from geoman/ciaranm, they really had not done anything worthy of being banned. I ask that this ban is undone *immediately* and that the Proctors have their powers revoked. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)
On Tue, 2007-06-05 at 15:43 -0600, Jason Wever wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: > > > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. > > Regardless of whether their postings are viewed as useful or not, this > action has gone too far in my opinion. As Gentoo now appears to condone > this type of behavior when "dealing" with what are perceived to be > problems, I no longer wish to be a part of Gentoo. > > While at this point there is very little chance of anyone convincing me to > return, I hope that the people who can still derive enjoyment from Gentoo > continue to do so. > > Infra, please remove my accounts at your earliest convenience. Jason, If you leave, the plants win. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
On Tue, 2007-06-05 at 21:52 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:44:23 +0100 > Roy Bamford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international > > forums such as are provided by Gentoo. > > Why yes! Gentoo needs to be one hundred percent serious and entirely > not fun. Anyone saying anything remotely amusing needs to be shut down > by the proctors immediately. Please keep up the good work. I really have to agree with you. The proctors have completely lost their way. They are ineffective. They tend to compound the problems they were created to stop. They are slow. They have not prevented anything, which was the reason for their creation. Rather, what they *have* done is stifle conversation, piss off people, get in the way of Developer Relations reports, and otherwise making developers feel like they don't want to participate in our official discussion channels. What do I think needs to be done? The proctors project needs to go away. It simply wasn't implemented in the way the Council had hoped and has proven to be more harmful than the original problems to morale and inter-developer trust. While the individual members might be doing what they think is best and trying their best, they've failed at the goals of improving our communications channels. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On 05/06/07, Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a member of the Council, I find it personally offensive that the Proctors have taken this action on what wasn't even a "problem" thread. I'm sick of this. I call for the immediate disbanding of the Proctors. As much as I dislike many of the posts from geoman/ciaranm, they really had not done anything worthy of being banned. I ask that this ban is undone *immediately* and that the Proctors have their powers revoked. You are still on the council? Find someone else who is and make one of your two man decision things. Proctors: please let me know when my ban expires. -- Richard Brown -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:08:27PM +0100, Richard Brown wrote: > Proctors: please let me know when my ban expires. You're not even banned? -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org http://forums.gentoo.org || http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/proctors/ forum-mods (at) gentoo.org || proctors (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums || #gentoo-proctors (freenode) pgpnpwnaXNHoK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
Perhaps it would be a good time to try another approach to the problem? How about proctors that are responsible for ensuring any arguments stay within bounds of technical discussion and formal logic rules? Chris Gianelloni wrote: > I really have to agree with you. The proctors have completely lost > their way. They are ineffective. They tend to compound the problems > they were created to stop. They are slow. They have not prevented > anything, which was the reason for their creation. Rather, what they > *have* done is stifle conversation, piss off people, get in the way of > Developer Relations reports, and otherwise making developers feel like > they don't want to participate in our official discussion channels. > > What do I think needs to be done? > > The proctors project needs to go away. It simply wasn't implemented in > the way the Council had hoped and has proven to be more harmful than the > original problems to morale and inter-developer trust. While the > individual members might be doing what they think is best and trying > their best, they've failed at the goals of improving our communications > channels. > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)
Chris Gianelloni wrote: Jason, If you leave, the plants win. That has just made my day. -- Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/ Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:00:25PM -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > I really have to agree with you. The proctors have completely lost > their way. They are ineffective. They tend to compound the problems > they were created to stop. They are slow. They have not prevented > anything, which was the reason for their creation. Rather, what they > *have* done is stifle conversation, piss off people, get in the way of > Developer Relations reports, and otherwise making developers feel like > they don't want to participate in our official discussion channels. Thanks for your trust and not even consulting with me before stabbing me in the back in public. I won't claim proctors has been perfect, but which team in Gentoo is? Also i don't have even a remote clue what half of your allegations are about, but frankly, i don't care any more. The council created this mess, and i've done my best to fix it. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org http://forums.gentoo.org || http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/proctors/ forum-mods (at) gentoo.org || proctors (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums || #gentoo-proctors (freenode) pgpCKkCaAcLDF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:00:28PM -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > As much as I dislike many of the posts from geoman/ciaranm, they really > had not done anything worthy of being banned. 1) Someone posts a thread which is about to go up in flames. 2) After a short period of time, the proctors post a note for people to step away from it. 3) People still reply, directly to that post. 4) People get temporarily suspended to make sure they don't. > I ask that this ban is undone *immediately* *Immedeately* undone. Everyone, feel free to malign, degrade or humiliate everyone on this list. You get a guilt free pass, at least from me, i'm outta here. > and that the Proctors have their powers revoked. Here's my badge, here's my gun. Can i please keep at least the silly hat? cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org http://forums.gentoo.org forum-mods (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums pgpCxq3ZRHw2V.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
Hi! First, a few words on where I'm coming from, so you can maybe see why I see things the way I do. I've been using Gentoo since some time before 1.2. I've always liked its flexibility, its excellent docs and that one could always find out how things work. I'm also a Gentoo rsync mirror admin. That is, a community mirror, so I'm no official member of the project. That said, my mirror is probably one of the older (if not oldest) rsync community mirrors out there. I'm quite sure it's in the top 10 of total traffic done over the years. Recently, I've convinced my boss to donate a rather large AlphaServer to the project. I've done that because I heard alpha had lost a good deal of their hardware donations and were looking for someone to help out. So I did. I've always enjoyed both, being a user and being a remotely-yet-not-really dev. Recently, though, that has changed. It's not only about the protracted and increasingly silly flame wars on -dev. What happened today is just outright insane from several points of view. First, someone is offended by something that is said on IRC between a group of devs. He then proceeds to publicly vent his frustration with this incident. Here's a hint: textual communication, be it mail, news or *especially* IRC is very easily misunderstood and even more easily ripped out of its context. I've learned that whenever someone says something that offends you on IRC, there's several ways to deal with it. First: Ignore it. Second: Take it up with them, ask them (politely) what they meant, maybe tell them you found it offensive. Just keep in mind: stay the fuck calm. Once you abandon calmness, things will go downhill rapidly. The third option, taking it up with some authority should only be taken once you've used #1 and/or #2 without getting anywhere. Oh and the fourth option is starting yelling right away. Not really an option. Okay, so far, nothing terribly bad has happened. There was a misunderstanding and someone complained publicly. Not the smartest move, IMHO, but hey, that's the way it is. Then, after finding out it was a misunderstanding, the thing I simply can't wrap my mind around happens: not only silence from the initial complainer, but also two people who suggest things might have gotten off to a wrong start are semi-banned. Absolutely mind-boggling. Where does this lead us (okay, me) to? It leads me to question whether my helping out with Gentoo is worth it. Mind you, I hold very little stake in there as a nondev. But I'm seriously considering my options for another reason: my involvement with Gentoo is something I'd put on a resume. But seeing how things have been deteriorating in the last few months, I begin to doubt that that's a good idea. I'm not pulling the "leave in a huff" card. Gentoo can survive without me just fine. But I think it might be illustrative that I, as a user seek alternatives due to this completely irrational, childish and downright stupid behaviour. Sure, I'm probably one of the more involved users, but if things keep degrading at this pace, the average user will soon notice, too. And then they'll run flocks, I guess. This is not necessarily a "Think of the users!" type of mail. More of a "Geez, are you anywhere near realizing what childish behaviour your showing to the world?" affair. That said, I'll shut up now. Regards, Tobias -- In the future, everyone will be anonymous for 15 minutes. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
Tobias Klausmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [lots of good stuff] You rock. It's that simple. Your analysis of the problem hits the nail on the head and i call on all participating devs and users alike to step the hell back and take a deep breath before posting again. It's helps your bloodpressure, your fellow devs and our users. So please stop this nonsense and name-calling. -- Regards, Matti Bickel Encrypted/Signed Email preferred pgprTlgdsqp6P.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning
Wernfried Haas wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:00:25PM -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: I really have to agree with you. The proctors have completely lost their way. They are ineffective. They tend to compound the problems they were created to stop. They are slow. They have not prevented anything, which was the reason for their creation. Rather, what they *have* done is stifle conversation, piss off people, get in the way of Developer Relations reports, and otherwise making developers feel like they don't want to participate in our official discussion channels. Thanks for your trust and not even consulting with me before stabbing me in the back in public. I won't claim proctors has been perfect, but which team in Gentoo is? Also i don't have even a remote clue what half of your allegations are about, but frankly, i don't care any more. The council created this mess, and i've done my best to fix it. You'll certainly be missed by some of us (at least those who prefer not to read about the weekly flamewar over at slashdot)... :) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tobias, As a mostly under-spoken developer, I'd like to say that there are many other developers in Gentoo than just those seen regularly on -dev. We also add ebuilds to the tree, but tend to be content minding our own little corner of Gentoo. The number of Gentoo developers, I believe, is in the range of 400, but I've never counted them all. We are all, at our own speeds and in our own ways contributing towards the public domain information that goes into making up Gentoo. Gentoo is not a group of people, it is not the servers or the hardware, it is the sheer amount of data that people have spent their time crafting, to give away for free, so that Gentoo users everywhere can run a good operating system. I cannot speak for the other seldom-seen developers, but I personally tend to accept the advice offered by those accused of inflaming situations. They say that if you can't take jokes, or seem to easily take offense at their words, you should simply ignore them. I have been ignoring most of the -dev goings on for quite some time, and I shall continue to do so for quite some time. Throughout this though, I will still go on maintaining the few ebuilds in the tree that I am care-taker for, until some other kindly soul steps up to take my place. Whilst there are those that want a vision for Gentoo, want to push it this way, or improve it that way, they do not in themselves comprise the entirety of Gentoo, and they too look after ebuilds entrusted to them. Whilst they may be frustrated, wanting a larger goal, some grand direction, there are many, many developers whose only goal is simply to maintain an operating system they like. I hope this offers you a slightly different perspective of this distribution, and perhaps even causes you to reflect on your decision. If you still wish to remove your support, I and I'm sure the other watching developers will understand. If, however, you can see past the frustrations from all those searching for a way to pour their nervous energy into Gentoo, there will be always be some developers in Gentoo who will appreciate your contributions and be thankful that you made them. Thank you for your thoughtful post, Mike 5:) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGZfOqu7rWomwgFXoRAkeLAJ4xv12hcGrmSNB62mSahGc71YqhrQCfez3S hB7Bu7D4TG63sdP5q2Yvml8= =/Qrr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 00:33 +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote: > Hi! Tobias, I just wanted to say that I feel you raised some very valid points and your e-mail was pretty good! Thanks for taking the time to write it. Christel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)
On Tue, 2007-06-05 at 15:43 -0600, Jason Wever wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: > > > So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account > > from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested. > > Regardless of whether their postings are viewed as useful or not, this > action has gone too far in my opinion. As Gentoo now appears to condone > this type of behavior when "dealing" with what are perceived to be > problems, I no longer wish to be a part of Gentoo. > > While at this point there is very little chance of anyone convincing me to > return, I hope that the people who can still derive enjoyment from Gentoo > continue to do so. > > Infra, please remove my accounts at your earliest convenience. Thank you for the work you've put into Gentoo Jason, and for the chance I've had to get to know you. I have a great deal of respect for you and I wish you all the best for the future. Don't be a stranger. Christelx signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
Mike Auty wrote: > The number of Gentoo developers, I believe, is in the range of 400, > but I've never counted them all. FYI, Off-Topic: According to http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml 336 active developers, 50 of them marked away. According to http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml?statusFilter=Retired 280 retired developers. byebye, expose -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Bye Gentoo!
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 03:35 +0200, Bryan Østergaard wrote: > It's with a bit of sadness but also a bit of relief that I'm finally > retiring from > Gentoo. > > I've been a Gentoo developer for nearly 4 years now and I like to at least > pretend that I've made some important contributions to Gentoo during that > time. I've had a lot of fun but my frustrations have grown these past several > months and I've been entertaining the idea about retiring from Gentoo for > probably 6 months now. The past couple months the desire to leave Gentoo have > become much stronger and I think it's finally time for me and Gentoo to go our > separate ways. > > I think I've put my "fingerprint" on Gentoo in quite a few important ways but > lately I've come to the realization that I probably can't do any more for > Gentoo. No matter how hard I try fighting for what I feel is right we seem to > end up with petty fights, flamewars or what I consider even worse - people > simply ignore what I'm working hard towards. > > So I think it's high time that I leave the project and start looking for > another project where I can contribute something important and not just try to > keep afloat in a project that I seem to be at odds with to an ever > increasing degree. > > I'll try to reach all the projects I'm leaving over the next few days and see > if I can pass on my work in a reasonable manner. I probably won't be around > much on irc but if you really need to contact me you can do so at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Good luck to all of you and may Gentoo development be as much fun for you as > it used to be for me. Bryan, It's been a pleasure working with you and getting to know you this past year and a half. I've learnt a lot and you've been a rock, you've been inspirational and motivational.. You've been a great mentor in many aspects and an amazing friend. I look forward to working with you further on the other two OSS projects we are involved with together and I hope you made the right decision when you chose to step down. Christelx signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-dev] Conflict Resolution Project Member Changes
Hiya all, I've had three new people join the conflict resolution sub project of devrel over the last couple of weeks. Chrissy Fulham aka musikc Deedra Waters aka dmwaters Michael Marineau aka marineam I'm glad to have them onboard and they've already convinced me that adding them to the team was a wise decision! In light of the recent resignations of some Gentoo developers, the project has lost some of its conflict resolution board members and an update with replacements will follow shortly. Kind Regards, Christel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
Tobias Klausmann wrote: > But seeing how things have been deteriorating in the last few > months, I begin to doubt that that's a good idea. > > I'm not pulling the "leave in a huff" card. Gentoo can survive > without me just fine. But I think it might be illustrative that > I, as a user seek alternatives due to this completely irrational, > childish and downright stupid behaviour. > > Sure, I'm probably one of the more involved users, but if things > keep degrading at this pace, the average user will soon notice, > too. And then they'll run flocks, I guess. > > This is not necessarily a "Think of the users!" type of mail. > More of a "Geez, are you anywhere near realizing what childish > behaviour your showing to the world?" affair. Well, you're definitely right. It certainly sucks from the PR point of view, it could demotivate potential contributors, it's a disaster for developers. Problem is that neither you nor me can do anything against it. Nobody can, I'm afraid. There were some attempts to stop this behavior, Proctors were established, yet -- as you can see -- this approach simply doesn't work reliably. I'm afraid this is just how such a big and heterogenous community (see, we're a "community", we aren't a company that could fire people when they turn out to be idiots) works. There's a lot of people out there, some of them are compensating their social connections over Internet, others might have just had a bad day at work and jump the gun. They were raised in different environment, they have different attitude on how to solve problems, they use different ways to express their feelings. Some of them are probably considered a bit weird by "normal" people who don't run free software :). There's also a lot of people that are more "normal". They usually don't feel the need to flame on every occasion, they are busy in their real life, be it at work, at school or with emptying beer bottles. They do their job in Gentoo in such a way that it is fun for them. And when there's a flamewar, they ignore the thread/irc/whatever, simply because they have better stuff to do. Some of them are so busy that they manage to ignore every flamewar, others have more free time and sometimes decide they could try to prevent further flaming by asking others to stop. It's also true that from time to time, some of them got fed up with all the crap and realize that they've been in Gentoo for too much time. It's normal, that's just how things happen. Anyway, I'm not sure whether I managed to express my point in such a way I originally wanted to when I started typing. I know this could sound a bit disrespectful to your feelings, but if you feel bad because of "all this crap", well, try to do something else for some time. Have a beer, go watch a movie, anything. Perhaps this won't help, well, in that case, you've probably been around for time that's too long for you. There's nothing wrong with it, just leave. If you come back after some time (months, years?), I'm sure you'll find it a pleasure to work on Gentoo again. Just remember that there are folks who are upset about this crap, but don't worry too much, and do their job done. Cheers, -jkt -- cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
Tobias Klausmann wrote: I'm not pulling the "leave in a huff" card. Gentoo can survive without me just fine. But I think it might be illustrative that I, as a user seek alternatives due to this completely irrational, childish and downright stupid behaviour. An excellent former manager of mine once gave me very good advice - everybody is replaceable. I for one have been a bit annoyed by the number of "this project stinks - I quit" posts in the last few months. I'm sure it is just venting, but ultimately gentoo is a team effort. It is more important that the team is functional than that any particular uber-contributor continues to contribute. Which isn't to say the contributions of uber-contributors aren't important. However, ultimately we all do our small parts to make gentoo what it is. It really just comes down to acting like an adult. The project that is successful will be the one where individuals put the good of the project ahead of their personal whims. Sure, we're all volunteers and as a result we get to pick and choose what we work on, but there has to be some give and take for the good of the project. And if you just treat everybody nicely, say thank-you, and try not to bite the head off of somebody who says something idiotic things will be a lot happier for everyone... :) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[gentoo-dev] www-servers/boa wants YOU...
...to maintain it. Boa is "a single-tasking HTTP server. That means that unlike traditional Web servers, it does not fork for each incoming connection, nor does it fork many copies of itself to handle multiple connections. It internally multiplexes all of the ongoing HTTP connections, and forks only for CGI programs (which must be separate processes), automatic directory generation, and automatic file gunzipping. Tests show boa is capable of handling up to several hundred hits per second on a 100 Mhz Pentium, dozens of hits per second on a lowly 20 MHz 386/SX, and thousands on more powerful CPUs." It is currently under the mask of the tree-cleaners. However, Gentoo user Jochen Schlick has made a case for keeping it around and has gone as far as providing a fix for bug #102174, the bug that led to its masking. Upstream appears dead, but boa is still being carried by several other distros (fedora, debian, freebsd). There is one other bug, #101600. If you or your herd team (www-servers ping) can find a home for this low-maintenance package, please add yourself to the metadata. Thanks. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102174 -- where to now? if i had to guess dirtyepic gentoo orgi'm afraid to say antarctica's next 9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Fact Injection (was: Living in a bubble)
Benjamin Judas wrote: --8< 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported package manager on alpha 21:36 <@eroyf> yes 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips 21:36 * eroyf giggles 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords from portage -->8 Ya'll don't hear from me very often, usually because for the last 9 months or so, I've been pretty apathetic to things that have been going on. But I keep on truckin' because I have thissense that we're just having a wee little dark age. You know, like that one back in the last millennium where there was probably 0 scientific advancement? Well, we (the world) survived that. We also survived the Cold War. And by the gods, we're gonna survive Bush too (bloody RAID6 bugs). That means, Gentoo can survive this this little dark spell quite easily. We won't be the same organization that we were we this all started, but well, that's life. Old blood will be leeched, and new blood transfused in. I've made rumblings about an old Star Wars club I was once in. They too went downhill a bit during my tenure there, and by the time I left, I said: "They won't survive another year at this rate. Decisions take forever, the founder barely pays attention, and most of the command staff argues over minor things, like rank and title." That was late 2001, early 2002 when I said that (and when I left). They're still around. Different people running it, but they're still around. That was like, wow, five years ago almost. Now if a club made up of people loyal to the bad guys in a fictional sci-fi universe can survive as long as they have, a distro like Gentoo, with its radical capabilities for adapting to change can survive a helluva lot longer. WAY longer. All other things are, frankly, irrelevant. They're just the details. Now why quote that one snippet above? Simple. A joke it was; yes. But since I am pretty much the MIPS team these days, I felt it was time once again for me to stop talking about pikachus and mudkips, and pikakips and mudchus, and set some things straight with regards to this arch. Some of this reflects my own feelings on the matter as well, which I may or may not have shared before. Namely, number 1, Paludis is _not_ the "official" package manager of the MIPS arch. Right now, Portage *is*, because *that* is what the stages, built by Catalyst (on my bloody Octane), have in them. And unless Catalyst starts building stages with Paludis exclusively, that fact will *not* change anytime soon. I have nothing against Paludis, or even pkgcore, but as I see it, Portage is what we build release stages with; it's what a majority of our users use; it's what freakin' _defines_ us. I couldn't care less if some people regard Portage as being more broke than Windows Millennium, and that certain alternatives are superior. Portage _is_ Gentoo, and thus, it's what I use. That's my take on the whole matter. Now with that info out there, this is why I like this PMS thing that spb and ciaranm have been working on. I haven't read more than a few pages of the PDF documenting it, but it's top notch stuff, I think. And it's what we've needed for a very long time. See, I don't see a future where Gentoo only has one "official" package manager. I see a future where Gentoo provides a living database of software, adherent to a defined standard; A standard that allows multiple package managers to interface with and utilize. And because this standard exists, if one package manager sucks relative to another, then someone with savvy codin' skills can go off and fix it. Or write an entirely new package manager. In TCL if you want. Or freakin' Visual Basic. Whatever floats your shredded wheat. So right now, coming from the mouth (or hands) of the resident MIPS junkie, Portage is our official package manager. And no, not all the mips devs use Paludis either. Probably because I'm the lone guy who sticks to Portage because I'm too damn lazy to bother re-learning an entirely new set of commands. I like my emerge, I love my repoman (even if it's a bloody slow thing), and so on. In the future, I hope to have MIPS maybe become the arch that'll be the first to support multiple package managers, officially. And by that, I mean stages for portage, paludis, and pkgcore. Even if it means a dozen stages or more to support each one, that's fine (even if I have to write the Catalyst code for it). Because that's what Gentoo is about -- Choice. Although, I wonder if it's more sane to create some gcc-config-like tool to just "switch" between package managers on the fly in a single stage3, irregardless of what package manager built that stage. Now wouldn't freakin' rock a zergling's socks? Anyways, we're off the crab guys. Really. We're pulling in blank pots, the crew is getting res
Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Jason Wever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..snip..] But who are people going to accidentally hilight now?! :'( signature.asc Description: PGP signature
