[gentoo-dev] Re: USE flag documentation

2008-01-02 Thread Duncan
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on  Tue, 01
Jan 2008 06:09:28 +0100:

 Most of the time when I see complaints about the description of USE
 flags (I'm fully aware of those) the issue isn't the format, just that
 noone else has come up with a better description.

There are, I believe, two complaints, but one you don't see often as many 
don't think it's currently possible with a global USE flag (and possible 
but seldom done with local flags).

The first complaint is poor descriptions in general.  foo - Adds foo 
support just doesn't cut it.  (See USE=glw, for instance.  USE=gif's 
Adds GIF image support is at least somewhat better, saying GIF is an 
image format, at least.  I haven't a clue what libGlw does, except that 
it says requires mesa, which I know is 3D, so I suppose it's related to 
that, but what if someone doesn't know what mesa is?)  This seems to be 
the one you are addressing.

The second complaint, a frustration I often find myself experiencing, is 
that particularly with global flags, it's difficult to see exactly what 
they do in a particular package without actually seeing what the ebuild 
does.  Does it add the dependency and link against it?  Does it install 
example code and/or documentation for it?  Does it install bindings for 
it?  Is it build (static) against the included version vs using the 
system copy?  Does it not change what's supported at all, only the 
library/codec implementation used to handle it (the case with mp3/lame/
whatever sometimes)?  Etc.

It'd sure be nice to be able to run an euse -i flag and get the details 
of what flag actually does for various packages, or euse -i flag package, 
and get the info for just that package.  It'd be /real/ nice if emerge 
had a -vv or -vvv mode, that spit out what all the use flags actually did 
for those packages, at the detail level of the questions above.  If 
whatever proposal makes that easier, I say go for it. =8^)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master.  Richard Stallman

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[gentoo-dev] Improving use.desc

2008-01-02 Thread Santiago M. Mola
Hi,

A lot of people have complaints about the quality of USE flag
descriptions, so let's see if we can improve them a bit.

This a list of some descriptions which could be improved. Some are
just stupid things like trailing dot (not a bad thing, but most of
them doesn't have one) and some others are quite significant.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Objections?

-Xaw3d - Adds support of the 3d athena widget set
+Xaw3d - Adds support for the 3d athena widget set

-apache2 - Add Apache2 support
+apache2 - Add Apache2 HTTP Server support

-audiofile - Adds support for libaudiofile where applicable
+audiofile - Adds support for libaudiofile (processing audio data to
and from audio files in AIFF, AIFC, WAVE, and NeXT/Sun)

-avahi - Add avahi/Zeroconf support
+avahi - Add avahi/Zeroconf support (easy service discovery on local networks)

-bcmath - Adds support for libbcmath
+bcmath - Adds support for libbcmath --FIXME

-branding - Enable Gentoo specific branding
+branding - Enable Gentoo specific branding (artwork, special
functionality, and others)

-cscope - Enables cscope interface -- in vim for example
+cscope - Enables cscope (source code browsing) interface -- in vim for example

-ctype - Enables ctype functions
+ctype - Enables ctype functions --FIXME

-dbus - Enable dbus support for anything that needs it (gpsd, gnomemeeting, etc)
+dbus - Enable DBus support (a simple way for applications to talk to
one another)

-emacs - Adds support for GNU Emacs
+emacs - Adds support for GNU Emacs text editor

-evo - Adds support for evolution
+evo - Adds support for mail-client/evolution

-examples - Install example source code
+examples - Install examples, usually source code

-expat - Enable the use of dev-libs/expat
+expat - Enable the use of dev-libs/expat for XML parsing

-ffmpeg - Enable ffmpeg support
+ffmpeg - Enable ffmpeg support --FIXME

-flac - Adds support for the flac audio codec
+flac - Adds support for FLAC: Free Lossless Audio Codec

-geoip - Add geoip support
+geoip - Add geoip support for country and city lookup based on IPs

-gnuplot - Enable gnuplot support
+gnuplot - Enable support for gnuplot (data and function plotting)

-gnutls - Adds support for net-libs/gnutls
+gnutls - Adds support for net-libs/gnutls (TLS 1.0 and SSL 3.0 support)

-jpeg2k - Support for JPEG 2000, a wavelet-based image compression format.
+jpeg2k - Support for JPEG 2000, a wavelet-based image compression format

-junit - Adds junit awareness -- useful for developers.
+junit - Adds junit awareness -- useful for developers

-kdeenablefinal - EXPERIMENTAL: KDE ebuilds will use the enable-final
flag, yielding compilation speedups at the cost of heavy mem usage and
potentially causing problems. We strongly discourage setting this.
+kdeenablefinal - EXPERIMENTAL: KDE ebuilds will use the enable-final
flag, yielding compilation speedups at the cost of heavy mem usage and
potentially causing problems. We strongly discourage setting this

-kerberos - Adds kerberos support
+kerberos - Adds support for the kerberos network authentication protocol

-libcaca - Add support for colored ASCII-art graphics
+libcaca - Add support for colored ASCII-art graphics (with media-libs/libcaca)

-libnotify - Enable notification support
+libnotify - Enable notification support --FIXME

-matroska - Adds support for the matroska container format
+matroska - Adds support for the matroska container format (extensions
.mkv, .mka and .mks)

-modplug - Adds libmodplug support
+modplug - Adds libmodplug support (for MOD-like music files)

-mpeg - Adds libmpeg3 support to various packages.
+mpeg - Adds libmpeg3 support to various packages. --FIXME: This is no
longer true

-pda - Adds support for portable devices.
+pda - Adds support for portable devices

-perl - Adds support/bindings for the Perl language.
+perl - Adds support/bindings for the Perl language

-php - Include support for php
+php - Include support for the PHP language

-pic - Build Position Independent Code.  Do not utilize this flag
unless you know what you're doing.
+pic - Build Position Independent Code.  Do not utilize this flag
unless you know what you're doing

-pulseaudio - Adds support for PulseAudio sound server
+pulseaudio - Adds support for PulseAudio sound server (ex-PolypAudio)

-sharedext - Adds support for building shared extensions in php
+sharedext - Adds support for building shared extensions in PHP

-simplexml - support for simplexml
+simplexml - support for SimpleXML

-sndfile - Adds support for libsndfile
+sndfile - Adds support for libsndfile reading and writing files
containing sampled sound (supporting lots of formats)

-speex - Adds support for the speex audio codec
+speex - Adds support for the speex audio codec (used for speech)

-svg - Adds support for SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics).
+svg - Adds support for SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics)

-tiff - Adds support for the tiff image format
+tiff - Adds support for the TIFF image format

-vim-syntax - Pulls in related vim syntax 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving use.desc

2008-01-02 Thread Ulrich Mueller
 On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Santiago M Mola wrote:

 A lot of people have complaints about the quality of USE flag
 descriptions, so let's see if we can improve them a bit.

 [...]

 -emacs - Adds support for GNU Emacs
 +emacs - Adds support for GNU Emacs text editor

Please leave this one as it is. For some packages the flag addresses
also the non-editor aspects of Emacs.

Besides, it is consistent with the xemacs flag (Add support for XEmacs).

Ulrich
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Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flag documentation

2008-01-02 Thread Doug Klima
Mark Loeser wrote:
 Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
   
 One of the GLEP's primary goals is to provide a global use flag
 definition and over-ride
 it with a local definition.  How does putting all flags in use.desc
 and over-riding local flags in
 use.local.desc not accomplish this?
 

 It does, and maybe that's what we should use instead?  The reason for
 the email is to figure out if what we have now is good enough, or if we
 should switch to something else.

   

You're the one forcing people to remove overriding USE flags from
use.local.desc when that's something that people have been doing for
ages. The current Portage tools support that method.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
On 1/1/08, Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It took me some time to find /etc/conf.d/modules, but it's certainly
  useful :).

 It also means all config files, with the exceptions of fstab and rc.conf
 are in conf.d and not some random dir :)

Took me a while too... Some ChangeLog documentation should be available.

Also I think this is a regression:
# update-modules
/sbin/update-modules: line 118: KV_to_int: command not found
/sbin/update-modules: line 118: KV_to_int: command not found
/sbin/update-modules: line 263: is_older_than: command not found

And I think there is a circular dependency of:
openrc-init-module-tools-baselayout-openrc

I did not understand the comments in rc.conf regarding the external
dependency...
# It's possible to define extra dependencies for services like so
#rc_config=/etc/foo
#rc_need=openvpn
#rc_use=net.eth0
#rc_after=clock
#rc_before=local

How can I add a specific service dependency using this mechanism? The
modified service name is missing...

I also notice that the timezone of clock is gone, any alternative?
Also the network dependency of stopping/starting services when network
is unavailable/available is gone, any alternative?

Thanks!
Alon.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: sys-apps/diffutils dependency on =sys-apps/man-pages-2.46

2008-01-02 Thread Stefan Hellermann

Hi,

masking out the dependency with /etc/portage/profile is not a problem, but why is it 
needed? Why is there the dependency on man-pages in diffutils? I think this question is 
not related to embedded, it's about a wrong dependency of a system-package. More people 
could hit this when they build a minimal vserver or simply don't like man. Any objections 
on removing this dependency?


Cheers
Stefan Hellermann

Duncan schrieb:

Stefan Hellermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on  Sat, 29 Dec 2007
21:45:45 +0100:


why has sys-apps/diffutils a dependency on =sys-apps/man-pages-2.46?

I'm using a embedded uclibc system


There are people here who work with embedded and ulibc.  I'm not one of 
them and won't try to answer directly.  However, to fix the dependency...


Use /etc/portage/profiles/package.provided.  See the portage manpage for 
details.  I have a number of unnecessary dependencies listed there, and 
a few virtuals faked in a virtuals file in the same dir, as well.  If you 
don't like Gentoo's dependencies, they /do/ give you a way to change them 
yourself without a whole lot of trouble. =8^)


BTW, if you aren't yet aware of it, there's the Gentoo-embedded list.  
Next time I'd suggest trying there, first. =8^)



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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Roy Marples

On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 16:39 +0200, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
 On 1/1/08, Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   It took me some time to find /etc/conf.d/modules, but it's certainly
   useful :).
 
  It also means all config files, with the exceptions of fstab and rc.conf
  are in conf.d and not some random dir :)
 
 Took me a while too... Some ChangeLog documentation should be available.
 
 Also I think this is a regression:
 # update-modules
 /sbin/update-modules: line 118: KV_to_int: command not found
 /sbin/update-modules: line 118: KV_to_int: command not found
 /sbin/update-modules: line 263: is_older_than: command not found

Those functions were removed from functions.sh as only update-modules
still uses them. udev does use KV_to_int though. I don't really want to
add those functions back. Although we could trivially add is_older_than
as a C applet built into rc.

 And I think there is a circular dependency of:
 openrc-init-module-tools-baselayout-openrc

Quite possibly. I'm sure some bright spark can actually say what's wrong
before it hits portage.

 
 I did not understand the comments in rc.conf regarding the external
 dependency...
 # It's possible to define extra dependencies for services like so
 #rc_config=/etc/foo
 #rc_need=openvpn
 #rc_use=net.eth0
 #rc_after=clock
 #rc_before=local
 
 How can I add a specific service dependency using this mechanism? The
 modified service name is missing...

They're supposed to belong in /etc/conf.d/$SVCNAME
Maybe you could suggest better wording?

I suppose we could also allow
rc_$SVCNAME_$depend to work, for example

rc_clock_need=modules

 I also notice that the timezone of clock is gone, any alternative?
 Also the network dependency of stopping/starting services when network
 is unavailable/available is gone, any alternative?

The timezone was variable was just a hack for the timezone ebuild to
update /etc/localtime if it's not a symlink. I'm striving to remove all
Gentooisms from it so that it really is platform neutral.

Thanks

Roy

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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
On 1/2/08, Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Those functions were removed from functions.sh as only update-modules
 still uses them. udev does use KV_to_int though. I don't really want to
 add those functions back. Although we could trivially add is_older_than
 as a C applet built into rc.

So who should take care of this?

  How can I add a specific service dependency using this mechanism? The
  modified service name is missing...

 They're supposed to belong in /etc/conf.d/$SVCNAME
 Maybe you could suggest better wording?

 I suppose we could also allow
 rc_$SVCNAME_$depend to work, for example

 rc_clock_need=modules

Oh... This is good, just document it... :)

You did not reply regarding this one:

  Also the network dependency of stopping/starting services when network
  is unavailable/available is gone, any alternative?

Regards,
Alon.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Roy Marples
On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 17:15 +0200, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
 On 1/2/08, Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Those functions were removed from functions.sh as only update-modules
  still uses them. udev does use KV_to_int though. I don't really want to
  add those functions back. Although we could trivially add is_older_than
  as a C applet built into rc.
 
 So who should take care of this?

update-modules maintainer which would be vapier.
I notified him on IRC about this a few months ago, but he never replied
one way or the other.

   How can I add a specific service dependency using this mechanism? The
   modified service name is missing...
 
  They're supposed to belong in /etc/conf.d/$SVCNAME
  Maybe you could suggest better wording?
 
  I suppose we could also allow
  rc_$SVCNAME_$depend to work, for example
 
  rc_clock_need=modules
 
 Oh... This is good, just document it... :)

Done!
re-emerge to test.

 You did not reply regarding this one:
 
   Also the network dependency of stopping/starting services when network
   is unavailable/available is gone, any alternative?

It's not gone at all - just different. It's also no longer net specific,
and applies to any service that can be multiplexed. But lets use net as
the example as everyone understands that.

With rc_depend_strict=YES (which is the default)
If any services added to the current runlevel provide net then all those
services will be used. If none found, then check the boot runlevel and
use those. If none found then nothing provides net as such.

With rc_depend_strict=NO we check the following and abort at the first
match.
Check if any started service provide net - if so use them.
Check if any inactive services provide net - if so use them.
Check if any coldplugged services provide net - if so use them.
If nothing found then list ALL installed services that provide net.

Hopefully that makes things a little more clear.

Thanks

Roy

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Can somebody please fix the gpg1 vs gpg2 hell?

2008-01-02 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 18:43 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:

 gpgme is completely unable to support both versions at the same time.
 It takes the path to GnuPG when the libray is compiled, and defaults to
 /usr/bin/gpg.

It's a stupid mess since from what I can tell, gnupg and gpgme has the
same upstream. They made gnupg-2 able to co-exist with gnupg-1, but
seemed to have forgotten all about gpgme. Unless the idea there is
anything using gpgme, should be gnupg-2, not gnupg-1.

Early reports of issues with gpgme fell on deaf ears upstream, and
doesn't seem things have improved at all there :(

 I'm interested as to how Debian and other distros resolved the issue.

Me to :)

muttered smart ass voice
  By providing both!
/muttered smart ass voice

1 luv ;)

Granted providing both still leaves the issue with gpgme. Damn the
upstream, damn them I say.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java


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Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flag documentation

2008-01-02 Thread Piotr Jaroszyński
On Wednesday 02 of January 2008 16:58:33 Mark Loeser wrote:
 Doug Klima [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
  You're the one forcing people to remove overriding USE flags from
  use.local.desc when that's something that people have been doing for
  ages. The current Portage tools support that method.

 Because this behaviour is not documented anywhere

It is documented in the PMS draft and imho it makes perfect sense (at least 
with current solution):

Flags must be listed once for each package to which they apply, or if a flag 
is listed in both use.desc and use.local.desc, it must be listed once for 
each package for which its meaning differs from that described in use.desc.

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Piotr Jaroszyński
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Improving use.desc

2008-01-02 Thread Markus Ullmann
Santiago M. Mola schrieb:
 -ffmpeg - Enable ffmpeg support
 +ffmpeg - Enable ffmpeg support --FIXME

ffmpeg - Enable ffmpeg-based audio/video codec support

 -junit - Adds junit awareness -- useful for developers.
 +junit - Adds junit testframework awareness -- useful for developers

junit - Adds junit test framework awareness -- useful for developers

 -libnotify - Enable notification support
 +libnotify - Enable notification support -- FIXME

libnotify - Enable desktop notification support

Greetz
-Jokey



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving use.desc

2008-01-02 Thread Vlastimil Babka
Markus Ullmann wrote:
 -junit - Adds junit awareness -- useful for developers.
 +junit - Adds junit testframework awareness -- useful for developers
 
 junit - Adds junit test framework awareness -- useful for developers

Actually, this flag should probably go away with gen-1 java ebuilds
(gen-2 uses standard FEATURES=test for junit tests). Quick grep shows
that it's already not used anywhere.

VB
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Improving use.desc

2008-01-02 Thread Mike Kelly
While you're at it, I think almost everything in desc/video_cards.desc,
desc/input_devices.desc, and a few more, could use some attention.

In particular, things like nv vs. nvidia are quite confusing. I usually
end up reading the xorg-server ebuild when I want to makes sense of it,
which defeats the point of video_cards.desc altogether.

Also, things like desc/userland.desc have all their variables starting
with USERLAND setting for which is about as useful as having every
use.desc line start with USE setting for.

That said, the various alsa*desc files, and some others, are well
documented, and would serve as a good example for the others.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Nathan Smith
On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:41:00 +
Roy Marples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi List
 
 2008 is here and it's time for some change!
 
 OpenRC is now ready for testing. There are no ebuilds in the tree, but
 some are available here [1] that offers a baselayout-2 shell that
 pulls in openrc-. I'll just offer a git ebuild for the time
 being, so bugs can be fixed fast without having to bump all the time.
 But it should be fairly smooth going.

I am wondering about the blocker on baselayout  2.0 in your git
overlay ebuild for baselayout-2.  Is there some reason that the upgrade
path from baselayout-1 to -2 will not work for openrc?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC available for testing.

2008-01-02 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
Again...
!!! Digest verification failed:
!!! /usr/portage/local/layman/openrc/sys-apps/openrc/openrc-.ebuild
!!! Reason: Filesize does not match recorded size
!!! Got: 3666
!!! Expected: 3629

On 1/1/08, Alon Bar-Lev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks for adding digest, but:

 Calculating dependencies /!!! Digest verification failed:
 !!! /usr/portage/local/layman/openrc/sys-apps/openrc/openrc-.ebuild
 !!! Reason: Filesize does not match recorded size
 !!! Got: 3629
 !!! Expected: 3602

 On 1/1/08, Alon Bar-Lev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Thanks!
  Works!
 
  Roy, why didn't you digest and commit the files?
 
  On 1/1/08, Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Alon Bar-Lev kirjoitti:
Publish to layman?
   
  
   Done. layman -a openrc after the web nodes have synced from CVS.
  
   Regards,
   Petteri
  
  
  
 

���^����(� ��X��X�

Re: [gentoo-dev] Can somebody please fix the gpg1 vs gpg2 hell?

2008-01-02 Thread Wolfgang Illmeyer
Am Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2008 schrieb Robin H. Johnson:
 On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 10:21:35PM +0100, Wolfgang Illmeyer wrote:

 To restate it more clearly from your paragraph above:
 kmail  DEPENDS on gpgme built-with gnupg-2
 psiDEPENDS on gpgme built-with gnupg-1
 basket DEPENDS on gpgme built-with gnupg-1

Nope, psi does not depend on gpgme, it uses gpg directly - so it can use gpg1 
while the gpgme stuff can use v2 at the same time.

 The best course of action here is fixing PSI and Basket to work properly
 with GnuPG2.

AFAIK they can't be, because they need to cache the passphrase, which is not 
supported by gpg2. Does anybody know how passphrase caching works with gpg1? 
Maybe it is possible to write some plugin/extension/patch to allow gpg2 to do 
the same?

 The PSI issue was being tracked in bug 183075, but the users stopped
 providing information, and it worked from what alonbl could determine.
 I see it's open as bug 197588 again, hopefully we get enough user
 interaction to actually solve it now.

 I don't find any bug for Basket, could you please open one with your
 information about the problems you are having?

I'll have a look at the bugs today after work

 Also, could you confirm that you are indeed running the agent before any
 of the above stuff is started?

I'm confused - do you mean the password agent? Hasn't the password agent been 
deprecated for a long time? I use pinentry for gpg2 ;) What is the advantage 
of running the agent?

/Wolfgang
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