[gentoo-dev] Re: proposal for consistency between {RUBY,PYTHON,PHP}_TARGETS
The 24/11/12, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote: No. Being consistently stupid is not a good reason to be consistent. Stop being fallacious, please. And since as I said the RUBY_TARGETS interface is designed to be _usable by Ruby developers_, being consistent and breaking that, is not something I would care about. The request is for Gentoo administration. So, talking about developers of a language is not the question. I am a ruby developer and having ruby18 or ruby_1_8 is not much a problem. There are a lot of package names not matching a command name and it's not a problem either. Talking of ruby developers when it comes to Gentoo admins is wrong. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-irc/xchat
On 11/26/2012 12:40 AM, Denis M. (Phr33d0m) wrote: Hello, I'd have to mention, as HexChat is a fork from XChat it strictly depends on gtk+-2 as well. So removing gtk+-2* will make HexChat unusuable (at least the GUI). Also there are no plans on porting it to anything like gtk+-3 (or Qt (I have to say I'd love that)). That part is a non issue imo. GTK2 will not be deprecated anytime soon as many many apps still use it. Answering some questions already on this topic, hexchat has it's own system info script, so xchat-sys is pointless for hexchat (although it might work - yes, or what hasufell saw was the built-in working and not the xchat-xsys plugin). Just fyi, I was testing xchat-xsys and the internal system info plugin is derived from that one. So yes, we would not need it anyway. At least we don't seem to have those security issues for hexchat.
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote: I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage news? use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ... I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages install different files. The installed files would not be updated, just the vdb. ... which portage will happily upgrade next time you `emerge -u world` -mike
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger vap...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote: I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage news? use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ... I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages install different files. The installed files would not be updated, just the vdb. ... which portage will happily upgrade next time you `emerge -u world` Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'? /me hides... -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote: I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage news? use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ... I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages install different files. The installed files would not be updated, just the vdb. ... which portage will happily upgrade next time you `emerge -u world` Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'? i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants to upgrade from xchat to hexchat -mike
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:07:53 -0500 Mike Frysinger vap...@gentoo.org wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote: I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage news? use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ... I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages install different files. The installed files would not be updated, just the vdb. ... which portage will happily upgrade next time you `emerge -u world` Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'? i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants to upgrade from xchat to hexchat Maybe. On the other hand, the udev-systemd switch was performed upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move. xchat hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out). IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all. It's rather confusing when 'xchat' instantly becomes 'hexchat' which it is actually not before the rebuild. And after the rebuild user suffers the usual upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions. So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those, package.mask messages are much better. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Michał Górny wrote: xchat hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out). they're about as equivalent as you're going to get. a few plugins don't work, but not a big deal. the config file formats are also largely compatible. IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all. yeah, i don't think so. that's like saying since i have to turn the steering wheel anyways when driving a car, there's no point in power steering. And after the rebuild user suffers the usual upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions. which is irrelevant to the suggestion at hand So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those, package.mask messages are much better. the inability to make users read the package.mask message explaining the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail. along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary. -mike
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger vap...@gentoo.org wrote: along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary. So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in use), and the only notice will be in an elog? Oh, and that elog will appear for a program called hexchat which as far as the user is aware they don't even use. This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give them too much warning when we're about to break their systems. We really should be using news more, and not less. Rich
[gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs: prosody + lua deps
I'd like to retire from these sometime soon: dev-lua/lua-zlib: no other maintainers/herd dev-lua/luadbi: no other maintainers/herd dev-lua/luaevent: blueness, rafaelmartins dev-lua/luaexpat: rafaelmartins dev-lua/luasec: rafaelmartins net-im/prosody: klausman, rafaelmartins AFAICT Rafael isn't very active these days. There shouldn't be that much immediate work except for bug 436648. Someone willing to take these off my hands? Cheers, Dirkjan
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On 11/26/2012 01:16 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger vap...@gentoo.org wrote: along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary. So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in use), and the only notice will be in an elog? Oh, and that elog will appear for a program called hexchat which as far as the user is aware they don't even use. This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give them too much warning when we're about to break their systems. We really should be using news more, and not less. We can do what we do for mplayer2 and soon mpv. If the program is largely the same adding compatibility symlinks seems to me the simplest solution. lu
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: proposal for consistency between {RUBY,PYTHON,PHP}_TARGETS
On 26/11/2012 00:20, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: The request is for Gentoo administration. So, talking about developers of a language is not the question. Gentoo administration? What on earth would that be? I am a ruby developer and having ruby18 or ruby_1_8 is not much a problem. There are a lot of package names not matching a command name and it's not a problem either. It is a problem if that means having to change hundres of packages, three eclasses, and every developer's configuration. -- Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes flamee...@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
Re: [gentoo-dev] Reminder: open season on robbat2's packages
On 04:22 Fri 23 Nov , Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 08:22:10PM -0600, Donnie Berkholz wrote: On 11:11 Sun 18 Nov , Robin H. Johnson wrote: Here's a list of every package where I'm a maintainer and there is no herd listed (but their might be other maintainers): I didn't say I was dropping any of the packages, merely making an explicit list of packages I maintain, that other developers are welcome to touch - if they want to take them over explicitly, that would be great too. Gah, my bad, trying to run through email too fast. -- Thanks, Donnie Donnie Berkholz Council Member / Sr. Developer, Gentoo Linux http://dberkholz.com Analyst, RedMonk http://redmonk.com/dberkholz/ pgpZBv5vUx4gN.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Packages up for grabs: prosody + lua deps
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman d...@gentoo.org wrote: I'd like to retire from these sometime soon: dev-lua/lua-zlib: no other maintainers/herd dev-lua/luadbi: no other maintainers/herd dev-lua/luaevent: blueness, rafaelmartins dev-lua/luaexpat: rafaelmartins dev-lua/luasec: rafaelmartins net-im/prosody: klausman, rafaelmartins AFAICT Rafael isn't very active these days. There shouldn't be that much immediate work except for bug 436648. Someone willing to take these off my hands? Yeah, help is very appreciated! Feel free to add yourself as co-maintainer of any of these packages that I'm listed as maintainer, and to ask questions related to lua on IRC. I should be around, even if not very active on package maintenance. BR, -- Rafael Goncalves Martins Gentoo Linux developer http://rafaelmartins.eng.br/
[gentoo-dev] Some packages up for grabs
Swegener recently moved away from the following packages: app-admin/eselect-pinentry app-crypt/pinentry Thanks for taking care of them if you want signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:33:15AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote the inability to make users read the package.mask message explaining the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail. along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary. Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped? I vaguely remember emerge --update --deep world stopping with a message that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested in the message. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On 26/11/2012 10:17, Walter Dnes wrote: Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped? I vaguely remember emerge --update --deep world stopping with a message that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested in the message. That's the p.maks message. -- Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes flamee...@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
Re: [gentoo-dev] Some packages up for grabs
El lun, 26-11-2012 a las 18:58 +0100, Pacho Ramos escribió: Swegener recently moved away from the following packages: app-admin/eselect-pinentry app-crypt/pinentry Thanks for taking care of them if you want And: net-dns/avahi signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Some packages up for grabs
On 11/26/2012 01:52 PM, Pacho Ramos wrote: El lun, 26-11-2012 a las 18:58 +0100, Pacho Ramos escribió: Swegener recently moved away from the following packages: app-admin/eselect-pinentry app-crypt/pinentry Thanks for taking care of them if you want And: net-dns/avahi This one is interesting to me. I'll add myself, but please, by all means, anyone else join in if they like! -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 8040 5A4D 8709 21B1 1A88 33CE 979C AF40 D045 5535 GnuPG ID : D0455535
Re: [gentoo-dev] Ohloh Organizations - Gentoo Linux
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman d...@gentoo.org wrote: I haven't heard back from them, maybe you can ask them what's up. This has been setup (with Donnie's help): https://www.ohloh.net/orgs/gentoo I've claimed 15 of the projects on there that I could easily find, analysis on those should complete shortly. If you're on Ohloh, please nominate further projects. You can also add the organization as a tag to your project contributions (which I've done for my gentoo-x86 commits). Also, if you're an active Ohloh user, let me know if you want to be a manager for the Gentoo organization. Cheers, Dirkjan
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:17:13 +0100 Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote: Maybe. On the other hand, the udev-systemd switch was performed upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move. No, it's not a valid candidate for a package move if the destination package already exists. A move is specifically for a rename, not for merging two existing packages together. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-irc/xchat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote: along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary. So, users will just move config in an elog? Oh, and they don't even use. see what happens when you delete context ? it no longer makes sense. if you read my reply in whole, it'd be clear that i was agreeing with Michał about the package.mask route *which would then make the need for a news entry pointless*. -mike
Re: [gentoo-dev] Ohloh Organizations - Gentoo Linux
On 26.11.2012 21:58, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman d...@gentoo.org wrote: I haven't heard back from them, maybe you can ask them what's up. This has been setup (with Donnie's help): https://www.ohloh.net/orgs/gentoo I've claimed 15 of the projects on there that I could easily find, analysis on those should complete shortly. If you're on Ohloh, please nominate further projects. You can also add the organization as a tag to your project contributions (which I've done for my gentoo-x86 commits). Also, if you're an active Ohloh user, let me know if you want to be a manager for the Gentoo organization. Cheers, Dirkjan Thanks both of you for your work, justin signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Ohloh Organizations - Gentoo Linux
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 09:58:32PM +0100, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: https://www.ohloh.net/orgs/gentoo I'm not a dev, and I haven't really been following this thread, but all the other organization summaries start out with something like Organization X is … not In order to sustain the current quality … Perhaps it would be worth rewriting to start with The Gentoo Foundation is … or Gentoo is …. In order to sustain … To give readers a cozier vibe ;). Cheers, Trevor -- This email may be signed or encrypted with GnuPG (http://www.gnupg.org). For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Ohloh Organizations - Gentoo Linux
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 4:30 PM, W. Trevor King wk...@tremily.us wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 09:58:32PM +0100, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: https://www.ohloh.net/orgs/gentoo I'm not a dev, and I haven't really been following this thread, but all the other organization summaries start out with something like Organization X is … not In order to sustain the current quality … Perhaps it would be worth rewriting to start with The Gentoo Foundation is … Yeah, that was my thought as well. The text was lifted from our charter, which was apparently written from a problem/solution standpoint rather than something that would be less time-bound. It doesn't really make sense having the organization description written as if it describes something that doesn't yet exist. Gleaning from the same document, but in a more positive way, how about: The Gentoo Foundation protects the intellectual property of the Gentoo community, supports Gentoo Development, and oversees adherence to the Gentoo social contract. It oversees all legal aspects of the Gentoo community, so that developers are free to advance the technical goals of Gentoo. The Gentoo Foundation keeps four pillars in mind: 1. Gentoo provides choices 2. Gentoo is open 3. Gentoo lives for the community, by the community 4. Gentoo is independent Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Ohloh Organizations - Gentoo Linux
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: Yeah, that was my thought as well. The text was lifted from our charter, which was apparently written from a problem/solution standpoint rather than something that would be less time-bound. It doesn't really make sense having the organization description written as if it describes something that doesn't yet exist. Exactly right. :) Thanks for rewriting, the page has your version now. Cheers, Dirkjan
[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Tightly-coupled core distro
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:52:46AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote: Debian / Ubuntu have a tool that basically does this. Its update-initramfs. I believe it is called from..the postinst of packages that are supposed to be in the initramfs? honestly I'd have to look up how they implemented it. Not a bad idea, with a corresponding eselect tool to control what kind of initramfs you have (dracut, genkernel, none, remind-me-but-I-roll-my-own, etc). The ebuild would just call the function, and the function would handle it accordingly. The issue there is packages that are supposed to be in the initramfs, since we've been told the initramfs is a custom thing for our situation. (Which is kinda my issue with just dumping the whole problem on end-users and admins who are not using a prepackaged distro without customisation, instead of maintaining backward-compatibility.) Mind, I don't have an issue with developers deciding certain packages are critical: after all the same knowledge informs what should be on root. I just don't think that the above answers the problem comprehensively (and thus it isn't worth the maintenance headache, if it can be avoided.) All the tutorials, and packages, I've seen on the forums take you through deciding exactly what you need in the initramfs. So given that each user has a potentially different set of stuff on there, the robust method would appear to require the mangler to know which packages had files on there, and to update them accordingly (or run the generation tool, or warn, as you said) when one of that set were updated. Simply triggering a warning when one of a named set is built, sounds like a start. (The initramfs generation script could run qfile to build/check the set.) Thereafter it's just a matter of hooking into that, if the functionality is not already present. (I don't run unstable portage any more, as I need to be close to what end-users of our emerge wrapper are using, so I'm not up on the current state of 2.2. I'd prefer not to have to script round this issue, since it doesn't affect me at all.) Regards, SteveL. -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
