Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Critical News Reporting) round five
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:19:27 -0700 Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | Ciaran McCreesh posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, | excerpted below, on Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:20:43 +: | | > Ok, new draft. Changes are as follows: | [] | > * Changed /var/lib/portage to /var/lib/gentoo | | OK, I must have missed the reason for that, and it isn't listed in | one of your "a previous version" notes, unless I missed that too. It's getting ready for the glorious future when we won't be using Portage any more. I also changed most of the instances of "Portage" in the GLEP to "the package manager". | Wouldn't it be less confusing if the news warning appeared in the same | place, relative to the package listing, in both of these? Isn't an | emerge --ask just the output of pretend, with a confirmation pinned | to the end? Shouldn't it continue to be that, at least in concept? It's a question of visibility. | First, the change outline doesn't state what the result actually was, | in the GLEP. Mandatory would require a MUST (or a similar statement | that it's mandatory), while the GLEP words it as a SHOULD. Or is | "should" not to be taken in the usual RFC meaning, but rather as an | RFC "MUST"? I'm avoiding 'must', because there's probably a legitimate exception somewhere. | Third, recall from the discussion of an earlier draft, someone | mentioned the multiple meaning of read (as here) vs. "read" (as in | README). The suggestion to avoid that ambiguity was "seen" and | "unseen". Another might be (un)viewed. I'm not sure this is a big | enough issue to matter much, particularly with "unread" there as | well, to influence the context, but as I don't recall that point | being addressed, I thought I'd mention it here. Pfff. Email clients use it. Trying to avoid words with multiple definitions in English is pretty much futile. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (I can kill you with my brain) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Critical News Reporting) round five
Ciaran McCreesh posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below, on Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:20:43 +: > Ok, new draft. Changes are as follows: [] > * Changed /var/lib/portage to /var/lib/gentoo OK, I must have missed the reason for that, and it isn't listed in one of your "a previous version" notes, unless I missed that too. Assuming the reason wasn't contrary to this (which it probably is, but...), why not /var/lib/portage/news/gentoo? If I read jstubbs' suggestion correctly, the "gentoo" would then serve as the repo name (in place of magic-chicken, altho as he proposed it, that would be part of the filename, not the directory the file is in) as well -- he said naming the current/default repo "gentoo" was sufficient. > * Added emerge --ask thingie > Checks for new news messages should be displayed: [] > * After an ``emerge --pretend`` [] > * Before an ``emerge --ask `` sequence Wouldn't it be less confusing if the news warning appeared in the same place, relative to the package listing, in both of these? Isn't an emerge --ask just the output of pretend, with a confirmation pinned to the end? Shouldn't it continue to be that, at least in concept? > * news.read is now mandatory for interactive clients, and ignored for > gateway clients > When a news item is read, its name should be removed from the > ``news-magic-chicken.unread`` file. If a news client acts as an > interactive reader rather than a gateway, it should then add the name to > a ``news-magic-chicken.read`` file in the same directory with the same > file format (again, ``magic-chicken`` should be a wildcard rather than > hardcoded). First, the change outline doesn't state what the result actually was, in the GLEP. Mandatory would require a MUST (or a similar statement that it's mandatory), while the GLEP words it as a SHOULD. Or is "should" not to be taken in the usual RFC meaning, but rather as an RFC "MUST"? Second but related, the first time I read thru it, I somehow missed the "rather than a gateway" part. Upon rereading, I saw it (obviously), but the effect of the present wording is to deemphasize the "gateway" clause, as well as the "read" file. If it's truly a MUST, then the "read" file deserves equal treatment with the "unread" file, probably by introducing the two as a pair, then treating them in parallel thru most of the other references. (IOW, the read file and its requirement for interactive clients currently appears to be the afterthought it in fact was, without that fact being recognized, which doesn't particularly positively impress, quality-wise.) Third, recall from the discussion of an earlier draft, someone mentioned the multiple meaning of read (as here) vs. "read" (as in README). The suggestion to avoid that ambiguity was "seen" and "unseen". Another might be (un)viewed. I'm not sure this is a big enough issue to matter much, particularly with "unread" there as well, to influence the context, but as I don't recall that point being addressed, I thought I'd mention it here. > Read the whole thing before commenting please. I did. FWIW & IMO... Your tenacity and attention to detail are both extremely good qualities to have in someone doing a GLEP. Few have the attention to detail and self-standards necessary, and I fear many that do would give up due to the barrage of criticism (hopefully all constructive ) these things get. Do keep up the good work! IMO, you are /far/ better at it than most would be, and the resulting GLEP will ultimately be the better for it! -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Critical News Reporting) round five
Alrighty then, good enough for me :) One other thing > .. Note:: A previous draft of this GLEP allowed news items to be sent to > ``gentoo-core`` instead of ``gentoo-dev``. It is possible that a situation > may arise where this will be necessary (for example, a security update which > must break backwards compatibility and which cannot be revealed to the > public > before a given date). The seems like a half complete thought, I realize you want to discourage it from happening, but maybe change it to read "It is possible that a situation and in only this case may it be sent to -core instead" On 12/12/05, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:30:52 -0500 Dan Meltzer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | >Internationalisable > | > Being able to provide messages in multiple languages may be > | > beneficial. > | > | Not quite sure, is it required for GLEP's to be in american English or > | is UK English fine? > | > | Pointing at Internationalizable > > The standard for Gentoo documentation is to use whichever variant the > original author prefers. > > -- > Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (I can kill you with my brain) > Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org > Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm > > > -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Critical News Reporting) round five
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:30:52 -0500 Dan Meltzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | >Internationalisable | > Being able to provide messages in multiple languages may be | > beneficial. | | Not quite sure, is it required for GLEP's to be in american English or | is UK English fine? | | Pointing at Internationalizable The standard for Gentoo documentation is to use whichever variant the original author prefers. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (I can kill you with my brain) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Critical News Reporting) round five
>Internationalisable > Being able to provide messages in multiple languages may be beneficial. Not quite sure, is it required for GLEP's to be in american English or is UK English fine? Pointing at Internationalizable On 12/12/05, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok, new draft. Changes are as follows: > > * mysql-4.1, not -5. > > * Added einfo, ewarn to the list of methods currently used > > * Added + and : to the allowed news item IDs, to match package name > policy (Kugelfang thought we might need, say, a libstdc++ news item at > some point) > > * Changed /var/lib/portage to /var/lib/gentoo > > * The news file is now named 'news-magic-chicken.*'. News clients are > to use a wildcard rather than hardcoding magic-chicken. > > * Added emerge --ask thingie > > * news.read is now mandatory for interactive clients, and ignored for > gateway clients > > Read the whole thing before commenting please. > > -- > Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (I can kill you with my brain) > Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org > Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm > > > -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
