Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
On 02/11/2013 12:53 PM, James Cloos wrote: >> "AB" == Alexis Ballier writes: > > AB> Well, if we have to advertise the usage of this option that basically > AB> disables subslot rebuilds, it only means we are doing something > AB> seriously wrong with subslots :=) > > So far, I've found the sub slots to be more of a pain in the ass than > helpful. > > They get in the way of things like automated 'emerge --sync;emerge -upvDN', > since portage craps out complaining about the subslots rather than showing > the list of what need to be built. > > Perhaps that is just an implementation detail to be worked out, but for now > they haven't done anything helpful here. It sounds like this bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456340 I hope to have it fixed soon (maybe today). -- Thanks, Zac
Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
On 2013-02-11, at 3:53 PM, James Cloos wrote: >> "AB" == Alexis Ballier writes: > > AB> Well, if we have to advertise the usage of this option that basically > AB> disables subslot rebuilds, it only means we are doing something > AB> seriously wrong with subslots :=) > > So far, I've found the sub slots to be more of a pain in the ass than > helpful. > > They get in the way of things like automated 'emerge --sync;emerge -upvDN', > since portage craps out complaining about the subslots rather than showing > the list of what need to be built. > > Perhaps that is just an implementation detail to be worked out, but for now > they haven't done anything helpful here. this must be an implementation detail... the point of subslots and slot operators is to allow the revdep-rebuilds to be inlined so that low library updates don't break later application emerges during the -uDN ... the output should be the same as a "emerge -uDNpv world" plus a "revdep-rebuild -p" once everything is subslotted... it shouldn't affect your usual emerge process beyond that. is the conflict that emerge craps out on a subslot specific thing or is it a regular slot conflict made harder to read? > > -JimC > -- > James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6 >
Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
> "AB" == Alexis Ballier writes: AB> Well, if we have to advertise the usage of this option that basically AB> disables subslot rebuilds, it only means we are doing something AB> seriously wrong with subslots :=) So far, I've found the sub slots to be more of a pain in the ass than helpful. They get in the way of things like automated 'emerge --sync;emerge -upvDN', since portage craps out complaining about the subslots rather than showing the list of what need to be built. Perhaps that is just an implementation detail to be worked out, but for now they haven't done anything helpful here. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 20:21:56 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 09:15:03 -0300 > Alexis Ballier wrote: > > > I hope this will be trivial to most of you but after seeing bug > > #455900 and the vast majority of developers not even thinking twice > > before sedding their dep strings, I believe this needs some > > attention. > > As a note for those who get irritated with those webkit-gtk: > >--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps < y | n > > Ignore the slot/sub-slot := operator parts of > dependencies that have been recorded when packages where built. > This option is intended only for debugging purposes, and it only > affects built packages that specify slot/sub-slot := operator > dependencies which are supported beginning with EAPI 5. > > Sadly, there's probably no way to ignore them only for cases when they > are completely useless, leaving the meaningful uses alone. Well, if we have to advertise the usage of this option that basically disables subslot rebuilds, it only means we are doing something seriously wrong with subslots :=) Alexis.
Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 09:15:03 -0300 Alexis Ballier wrote: > I hope this will be trivial to most of you but after seeing bug #455900 > and the vast majority of developers not even thinking twice before > sedding their dep strings, I believe this needs some attention. As a note for those who get irritated with those webkit-gtk: --ignore-built-slot-operator-deps < y | n > Ignore the slot/sub-slot := operator parts of dependencies that have been recorded when packages where built. This option is intended only for debugging purposes, and it only affects built packages that specify slot/sub-slot := operator dependencies which are supported beginning with EAPI 5. Sadly, there's probably no way to ignore them only for cases when they are completely useless, leaving the meaningful uses alone. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
On 09/02/13 14:15, Alexis Ballier wrote: Dear fellow developers, I didn't find anything to reply directly here, so sorry for stealing this message. I just wanted to point out that people have lately been adding deps like: media-libs/libpng:= dev-libs/openssl:= That is wrong as it completely ignores the SLOTting of these packages. They need to be: media-libs/libpng:0= dev-libs/openssl:0= As in, before you add any subslotting to any library, you need to check for it's binary-only SLOTs! Thanks, Samuli
[gentoo-dev] On the good usage of subslots
Dear fellow developers, I hope this will be trivial to most of you but after seeing bug #455900 and the vast majority of developers not even thinking twice before sedding their dep strings, I believe this needs some attention. What do subslots do: You set a subslot to a package and every time said package subslot changes (e.g. with an update), others packages depending on it with a := dep will be rebuilt. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, this solves a real problem: haskell, perl and ocaml packages need to be rebuilt after updating their respective compiler/interpreter and, in some cases, even after updating the libraries they use. Subslots would make haskell-updater, perl-cleaner and ocaml-rebuild not needed in the future. You can also use subslots to notify an ABI change in a shared library, in order to avoid having to use preserve-libs or run revdep-rebuild. However, this week I had to rebuild webkit-gtk three or four times and libreoffice twice... If you want to notify ABI changes, then you should set subslot to something representing the ABI, $PV as subslot is most certainly wrong in that case. Subslot is *not* a substitute to checking your library ABI, checking if its reverse dependencies work fine after the update, and notifying upstream if something went wrong so they can make a quick release fixing their mistake. Subslot is also *not* a substitute to soname and ensuring ABI compatibility (at least forward) between libraries with the same major. Using subslot only to be on the safe side and forcing a rebuild of all the dependent packages because it is too much work to check the ABI and work with upstream is, IMHO, a serious QA issue. Thank you for your attention, Alexis.
