Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
Marius Mauch wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:02:57 -0400 Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Marius Mauch wrote: Now that's a big exaggeration. It _might_ be missing from world updates (there are still many cases where it will be included), but that's not the only available operation in portage. Marius We discussed this in #gentoo-portage the other day where I had a machine that was on gcc 4.3.1 (not -r1) and glibc 2.7 and didn't want to upgrade either of those packages to the latest ~arch. I know, but just because it did (not) happen in your case doesn't mean it will be the same for everyone else. Marius Given the same package set and world file that I have, it will happen every time. Also specific variations of my package set and world file will result in the issue. Which means that it will occur for other people but no one ever said everyone.
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:02:57 -0400 Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marius Mauch wrote: > > Now that's a big exaggeration. It _might_ be missing from world > > updates (there are still many cases where it will be included), but > > that's not the only available operation in portage. > > > > Marius > > > We discussed this in #gentoo-portage the other day where I had a > machine that was on gcc 4.3.1 (not -r1) and glibc 2.7 and didn't want > to upgrade either of those packages to the latest ~arch. > I know, but just because it did (not) happen in your case doesn't mean it will be the same for everyone else. Marius
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
Marius Mauch wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:01:28 -0400 Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Olivier Crête wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 18:01 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote: This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know how to address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be updated to contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. I though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea. Yes. Adding libc everywhere is wrong. However, if you don't have one of the packages listed here [1], your libc won't ever update. Now that's a big exaggeration. It _might_ be missing from world updates (there are still many cases where it will be included), but that's not the only available operation in portage. Marius We discussed this in #gentoo-portage the other day where I had a machine that was on gcc 4.3.1 (not -r1) and glibc 2.7 and didn't want to upgrade either of those packages to the latest ~arch.
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Markus Rothe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Robert Bridge wrote: >> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:20 +0200 >> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > IMHO it would be better to teach users to explicitly specify >> > '@system' during updates, e.g. `emerge -uDN @system @world`. >> >> Why not just re-instate the implicit dependency of world on system? > > Paludis has "everything" for updating all packages. Would that be an option > for portage, too? > > I.e. `emerge -uDN @everything` It exists as well... > > -markus > > P.S.: where does that '@' come from? > '@' denotes that the atom refers to a set and not any other kind of atom. -Alec -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
Robert Bridge wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:20 +0200 > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IMHO it would be better to teach users to explicitly specify > > '@system' during updates, e.g. `emerge -uDN @system @world`. > > Why not just re-instate the implicit dependency of world on system? Paludis has "everything" for updating all packages. Would that be an option for portage, too? I.e. `emerge -uDN @everything` -markus P.S.: where does that '@' come from? pgpqvaed2lmAS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:21:24 +0100 Robert Bridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:20 +0200 > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IMHO it would be better to teach users to explicitly specify > > '@system' during updates, e.g. `emerge -uDN @system @world`. > > Why not just re-instate the implicit dependency of world on system? Because that doesn't actually fix the problem, it just covers it up to some degree (there has never been a guarantee that "system" is actually satisifed when you install a package). Also the new solution is more flexible as it still allows you to include system in world easily, or update/rebuild system and world separately. And for a full system updates there is a new target available that actually includes all installed packages. Yes, this is going to require some user reeducation, and yes, this will take some time, but it isn't as dramatic as some people make it. The whole "implicit-system-dependency" thing has never existed, it was always a broken assumption that only didn't blow up badly because a) the "system" target rarely changes b) most packages only depend on a tiny part of "system" and c) most users actually do full system updates regulary. As soon as you want to install a package that actually implicitly depends on something in "system" that isn't already installed the whole thing breaks down. Marius -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:01:28 -0400 Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Olivier Crête wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 18:01 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote: > > > >> This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know > >> how to address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be > >> updated to contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need > >> RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. > >> > > > > Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. > > I though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea. > > > > > Yes. Adding libc everywhere is wrong. However, if you don't have one > of the packages listed here [1], your libc won't ever update. Now that's a big exaggeration. It _might_ be missing from world updates (there are still many cases where it will be included), but that's not the only available operation in portage. Marius -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:20 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IMHO it would be better to teach users to explicitly specify > '@system' during updates, e.g. `emerge -uDN @system @world`. Why not just re-instate the implicit dependency of world on system? Rob. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
Doug Goldstein wrote: Yes. Adding libc everywhere is wrong. However, if you don't have one of the packages listed here [1], your libc won't ever update. Sure it will. When the version of libc you have installed is removed from the portage tree you'll get bumped to the most recent version (stable/testing as appropriate). Works fine for me. I generally don't care if I'm running an older version of libc. If something requires a particular version it will have a dependency and will pull it in. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
2008-07-18 16:01:28 Doug Goldstein napisał(a): > Olivier Cr�te wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 18:01 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote: > > > >> This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know how to > >> address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be updated to > >> contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need > >> RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. > >> > > > > Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. I > > though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea. > > > > > Yes. Adding libc everywhere is wrong. However, if you don't have one of > the packages listed here [1], your libc won't ever update. IMHO it would be better to teach users to explicitly specify '@system' during updates, e.g. `emerge -uDN @system @world`. -- Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
Olivier Crête wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 18:01 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote: This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know how to address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be updated to contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. I though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea. Yes. Adding libc everywhere is wrong. However, if you don't have one of the packages listed here [1], your libc won't ever update. [1] http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/virtual/libc -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 18:01 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote: > This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know how to > address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be updated to > contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need > RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. Adding a dep to libc almost everywhere seems extremely wrong to me. I though we had decided many times that it was a bad idea. -- Olivier Crête [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-dev] system set no longer in part of world set
With the new split in Portage where system set packages are not considered in an "emerge -auDNv world" unless something in world RDEPENDs on it brings about a few issues. i.e. Portage implicitly has a run time dependency on app-arch/tar, app-arch/bzip2, app-arch/gzip, app-arch/lzma due to the fact that Portage will use these utilities when "unpack" is called inside of an ebuild. As such these are run time depends of Portage and need to be in RDEPEND (the same would technically be true for pkgcore and paludis, unless they use tar's support for those formats and then its up to tar to depend properly). This brings out the fun of circular depends. I don't really know how to address this but a lot of packages are going to have to be updated to contain proper depends. i.e. C based apps will need RDEPEND="virtual/libc". C++ packages will need a stdc++ depend. If you're running Portage 2.2_rc1 on a system you can see if any packages have begun to slack behind on your system in the system set. emerge -puv @system You might notice packages in here that are used on a daily basis but are now no longer being updated. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
