Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 23:50 -0400, Curtis Napier wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 I'm in support of having a list of devs who want to do paid support. Anything that helps people eat is OK in my book. ;) On the other hand, I think we need to have the foundation run this past our lawyer(s) and make sure we have our i's dotted and out t's crossed. I would hate for something good like this to cause us problems down the road. Umm... The Foundation has zero to do with a contract between two third parties. Let me give you an example. I am currently doing paid Gentoo work for a company, who will remain nameless. I filled out paperwork with the company. My being a member of the Gentoo Foundation, a Trustee, or anything else, has exactly zero bearing on my being contracted, as an individual, to a company. I know christel is consulting with an accountant about adpot-a-dev, maybe she can throw this in as well? Do we have to do some special law-abiding dance to have sponsors listed on the site? What about advertisers? What Christel is researching is the tax law related to individuals receiving gifts. It has no bearing on the Foundation itself. Let's look at this another way. We have advertisers that sell Gentoo servers and Gentoo-based services. How exactly is this any different? Is it because they're developers? How does that matter? In the end, the contract is entirely between two third-party entities, the developer, and whomever contracts him. It isn't like the Foundation is offering services. It isn't. The individual developers are offering services. The Foundation is not any of our employer. We are not bound by any legal contract to the Foundation, and it has no ties to us. Giving ad space to our sponsors is legal for us to do as a Not For Profit because they are donating goods and/or services to us. Technically we are not giving them ads, we are acknowledging the donated goods and/or services. Just like PBS does at the beginning of it's shows, they aren't ads but acknowledgments of donations. Basically I just want to make sure that we are not breaking any of the rules of being a Not For Profit foundation. The IRS doesn't accept We didn't know any better as an excuse when they come knocking on our door to re-evaluate our Not For Profit status because we are giving free advertising to people who *ARE* being paid in a For Profit manner. And if the IRS changes our status we *may* be liable for back taxes. I know I'm the only one who ever says anything about the legality of what we do and always brings the Foundation into it but let's face facts: The Gentoo web properties are owned and operated by the Gentoo Foundation which means that those web properties MUST follow the law concerning Not For Profit. If no one else is concerned about it then I'll drop it but when the day comes and the IRS is a knockin' don't look at me. Besides, what can it hurt to have one of the Foundation Trustees ask one of our lawyers about it? - --Curtis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRQIxOEb8Q0uRCeTQAQFDMggAzP8sLxQ1btrjo6OioDxEgU65nvCSNfT0 Qn8gDxlcPA5HtRZA5c3Rw2uM2sCC55C2tW3SVoa5EJFH9Gs/cnzNkAdNeW8HaQTD ErG9WvZKsI/fvax1JHIgBTq03p81WxIY9GFc6olCdr0BgFptiZIx2kPaxZ+6q/wY 0Zv1nzzvet3lmM2ZYet35vds0WrhyHrqAvUcvlcgcz6gmlsmOXlS/WXazRi8636T 5yytNzfV7pdsf3t2BF+n3Cg93kiF2x4u2OV/rPUFWHpkzpjoTB5XNEgogelrDMQn wBhxbN4LE96mc/Km+vD7Mt8cBU/8UFmn1wMKyVGsLS6xReADkD4+Ew== =7+lW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
Curtis Napier wrote: Giving ad space to our sponsors is legal for us to do as a Not For Profit because they are donating goods and/or services to us. Technically we are not giving them ads, we are acknowledging the donated goods and/or services. Just like PBS does at the beginning of it's shows, they aren't ads but acknowledgments of donations. Basically I just want to make sure that we are not breaking any of the rules of being a Not For Profit foundation. The IRS doesn't accept We didn't know any better as an excuse when they come knocking on our door to re-evaluate our Not For Profit status because we are giving free advertising to people who *ARE* being paid in a For Profit manner. You just made my point. THEY are being paid, not Gentoo. Gentoo receives no financial support from this, and Gentoo is not offering goods or services in return for money. Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 23:50 -0400, Curtis Napier wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 I'm in support of having a list of devs who want to do paid support. Anything that helps people eat is OK in my book. ;) On the other hand, I think we need to have the foundation run this past our lawyer(s) and make sure we have our i's dotted and out t's crossed. I would hate for something good like this to cause us problems down the road. Umm... The Foundation has zero to do with a contract between two third parties. Let me give you an example. I am currently doing paid Gentoo work for a company, who will remain nameless. I filled out paperwork with the company. My being a member of the Gentoo Foundation, a Trustee, or anything else, has exactly zero bearing on my being contracted, as an individual, to a company. I know christel is consulting with an accountant about adpot-a-dev, maybe she can throw this in as well? Do we have to do some special law-abiding dance to have sponsors listed on the site? What about advertisers? What Christel is researching is the tax law related to individuals receiving gifts. It has no bearing on the Foundation itself. Let's look at this another way. We have advertisers that sell Gentoo servers and Gentoo-based services. How exactly is this any different? Is it because they're developers? How does that matter? In the end, the contract is entirely between two third-party entities, the developer, and whomever contracts him. It isn't like the Foundation is offering services. It isn't. The individual developers are offering services. The Foundation is not any of our employer. We are not bound by any legal contract to the Foundation, and it has no ties to us. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 I'm in support of having a list of devs who want to do paid support. Anything that helps people eat is OK in my book. ;) On the other hand, I think we need to have the foundation run this past our lawyer(s) and make sure we have our i's dotted and out t's crossed. I would hate for something good like this to cause us problems down the road. I know christel is consulting with an accountant about adpot-a-dev, maybe she can throw this in as well? - --Curtis ps. I didn't read every message in the thread, sorry if I'm repeating stuff that's already been covered. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRP+W7kb8Q0uRCeTQAQElJggAvAOIq5cnRqAXgjGUJPpQv3VuQuLPAGY6 HTVRDC24kP3yeOCy7+lyFgwZ9qV90w36zMzAVYHmQzXqVVqjWxKp06HTD+L/3Di+ PEBvtnYSYeeSnooZ0Q8hMqiwCOaImJBImTRh3X/8Y1Omjhvz0+Yw2IPuvmBjyD+D aAYPOLuqcDP1GUogPv+rBYCQXCU8YrqPJu8AjM0nWktSzgWvxdJC7xDI7IYlmcB3 gUc+arxb9edVOFUZH4nF8ZkhbHWw3R4i104Jd60oCSKdsXo1gBdCb7CwAGeSpVdI N+qbGYuCsgdGa4f3lMfeuT5/jU7H5phEFEjFobu9S//4nWivx3NIHQ== =8+RA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
On Sat, 2006-09-02 at 23:00 +0100, Stuart Herbert wrote: On 9/2/06, Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doing this on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page. We'll also need to sort out a process for handling complaints against developers from the folks they help. Doesn't matter how well we make it clear that these folks are independent; their actions will reflect on Gentoo as a whole, and unhappy customers _will_ complain to us sooner or later. Rather than pretent it won't happen, better we're pro-active and have something prepared. I think this is a great idea. If not for paid support, but just a list of names of developers who are willing to do some freelance consulting on setting up machines with Gentoo or to debug a problem, etc. I'm sure there are people who have ended up with a Gentoo machine, but can't hire a full time dev and would just like to pay someone to handle certain issues. I landed some freelancing where one of the reasons I was found was because I did work for Gentoo, and they have some gentoo servers that needed to be setup properly and securely. I'm putting my hand up to help set this up if it is more effort than putting up a single page on the web site :) Cheers, Alastair -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 00:31 +0200, Ioannis Aslanidis wrote: Stuart Herbert wrote: Hi, We'll also need to sort out a process for handling complaints against developers from the folks they help. Doesn't matter how well we make it clear that these folks are independent; their actions will reflect on Gentoo as a whole, and unhappy customers _will_ complain to us sooner or later. Rather than pretent it won't happen, better we're pro-active and have something prepared. That's a very smart thought. Let's do it. +1 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 08:55:33AM -0500, Mike Doty wrote: If that's not good enough for you, please find a distribution that you have to pay for like RHEL. Their testing is no better than ours, but at least paying something entitles you to bitch at them. Or consider paying a Gentoo developer [*] as your first level support person, and liaison with Gentoo. Thus they consult for you, and tell you if your specific combinations are going to work, and do their hardest to keep them working. It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doing this on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page. Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
On 9/2/06, Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 08:55:33AM -0500, Mike Doty wrote: If that's not good enough for you, please find a distribution that you have to pay for like RHEL.Their testing is no better than ours, but at least paying something entitles you to bitch at them. Or consider paying a Gentoo developer [*] as your first level support person, and liaison with Gentoo. Thus they consult for you, and tell you if your specific combinations are going to work, and do their hardest to keep them working.It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doingthis on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page.Thanks,DonnieI have done it before, and it's rather rewarding. Both monetarily, and otherwise.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
On 9/2/06, Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doing this on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page. I was thinking about something like this a couple of weeks ago. Similar to the adopt-a-dev project but for those of us who are students (or superhumans) and have enough time and want to make a buck or two with gentoo. We could list companies/people needing help either as a one-time action or on a regular basis (like a few hours a month), and starving and/or bored devs. The company I work for, for example, has gentoo servers only, and they use me as a consultant when they need it (my real job is not about computers). If they didn't have me they'd need somebody to help them, and I can hardly imagine it's the only company in the world in that case. Plus, that would probably make good PR for Gentoo. Denis. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
Hi, On 9/2/06, Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doing this on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page. This is a good idea. If you do it, it would be a very good idea to also post basic advice for Gentoo developers who put their name down for this. Folks'll need to know about contracts, documenting their work, and insurance. Per-country advice on independent contracting would also be helpful. We'll also need to sort out a process for handling complaints against developers from the folks they help. Doesn't matter how well we make it clear that these folks are independent; their actions will reflect on Gentoo as a whole, and unhappy customers _will_ complain to us sooner or later. Rather than pretent it won't happen, better we're pro-active and have something prepared. Best regards, Stu -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
Stuart Herbert wrote: Hi, We'll also need to sort out a process for handling complaints against developers from the folks they help. Doesn't matter how well we make it clear that these folks are independent; their actions will reflect on Gentoo as a whole, and unhappy customers _will_ complain to us sooner or later. Rather than pretent it won't happen, better we're pro-active and have something prepared. That's a very smart thought. Let's do it. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Donnie Berkholz wrote: Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 08:55:33AM -0500, Mike Doty wrote: If that's not good enough for you, please find a distribution that you have to pay for like RHEL. Their testing is no better than ours, but at least paying something entitles you to bitch at them. Or consider paying a Gentoo developer [*] as your first level support person, and liaison with Gentoo. Thus they consult for you, and tell you if your specific combinations are going to work, and do their hardest to keep them working. It might be worth putting together a list of folks interested in doing this on the Gentoo website, under a Third-party Paid Support section. We already have a Support link on the top of www.g.o, it could be on that page. Thanks, Donnie I like it. probably should have it's own thread though... - -- === Mike Doty kingtaco -at- gentoo.org Gentoo/AMD64 Strategic Lead Gentoo Developer Relations Gentoo Recruitment Lead Gentoo Infrastructure GPG: E1A5 1C9C 93FE F430 C1D6 F2AF 806B A2E4 19F4 AE05 === -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBRPnl4oBrouQZ9K4FAQIodQQA8fQLHp3Gk4LTAxF1bACBWCYgvd37Y0QV rqJIKtqPJr90X9/KUBRxsWh2fxw0/iBEVNU9QptqIRmBUjX3dMzD4oDBagRlemSQ BKdOkMI/H1T3YX8NSLOWyey9RBP2sIhdoPvNzIZYLbHOhv9gaKfoWZZPxqveh2T1 FuA0sUj/v3U= =fXMu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
