Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
Harry Putnam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) scribbled: > Being a new user, I'm wanting to get an overview of what an average > gentoo user might do or need to do over a 6mnth period. > > I installed 3 days ago and am still getting things setup. Seems like > an awfull lot of time has gone into emerging stuff I wanted installed. > > Now it turns out there is an update to portage and my system is > telling me it needs to update portage and then update the already > installed packages. 2 more huge chunks of time lost to compiling. > > An activity that seems so intensive that I have been reluctant to and > doubted the advisability of installing or making configs during the > compile process. > > So far I've spent a very lot of time waiting for something to finish > emerging. It seems like things like Mozilla take an extrordinary > long time. > > I'm wondering what a user might see over 6 mnths. How many portage > updates in that amount of time. Howmany `update worlds'. Of the 5 machines I have running gentoo, I would say on average I run 'emerge -uDav world' from every other day to once a week. However, I sure don't sit around and watch it. Typically, I'll launch the emerge, then start reading email, news, etc, and writing code, etc while it works in the background on the same machine. I've never had an emerge stop me from getting work done. Hell, a lot of times I completely forget my CPU is pegged out running a merge, till I flip over to that desktop to look at something, then I see compiler messages flying by... Basically, it doesn't affect the UI at all. hth, Cooper. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Sun, 2005-03-27 at 19:01 -0500, Jason Cooper wrote: > Harry Putnam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) scribbled: > > Being a new user, I'm wanting to get an overview of what an average > > gentoo user might do or need to do over a 6mnth period. > > > > I installed 3 days ago and am still getting things setup. Seems like > > an awfull lot of time has gone into emerging stuff I wanted installed. > > > > Now it turns out there is an update to portage and my system is > > telling me it needs to update portage and then update the already > > installed packages. 2 more huge chunks of time lost to compiling. > > > > An activity that seems so intensive that I have been reluctant to and > > doubted the advisability of installing or making configs during the > > compile process. > > > > So far I've spent a very lot of time waiting for something to finish > > emerging. It seems like things like Mozilla take an extrordinary > > long time. > > > > I'm wondering what a user might see over 6 mnths. How many portage > > updates in that amount of time. Howmany `update worlds'. > > Of the 5 machines I have running gentoo, I would say on average I run > 'emerge -uDav world' from every other day to once a week. However, I > sure don't sit around and watch it. > > Typically, I'll launch the emerge, then start reading email, news, etc, > and writing code, etc while it works in the background on the same > machine. I've never had an emerge stop me from getting work done. > > Hell, a lot of times I completely forget my CPU is pegged out running a > merge, till I flip over to that desktop to look at something, then I see > compiler messages flying by... Basically, it doesn't affect the UI at all. Tip for Harry: In /etc/make.conf set: PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 and the emergeing will go into the background and "give way" to other processes with higher priority. Also you don't need to update just because you can. If, for example, you stick to security updates, you will have far less compiling. However you may also miss something exciting on the leading edge. And yes mozilla takes a while. But if you really want to wait, try openoffice. As Jason says, just let it do the compiling in the background, and get on with using the computer. :-) > > > hth, > > Cooper. > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > -- Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
050327 Harry Putnam wrote: > Being a new user, I'm wanting to get an overview > of what an average gentooer might do or need to do over a 6mnth period. it will take a few weeks to get your system how you want it, but once you've done that, you never need to re-install. one of the beauties of Gentoo is that you have full control over how close you want to be to the bleeding edge or utterly reliable: what you update & when you do it is entirely upto you. i never -- as in "never" -- do 'emerge world' except with '-Dup' (below). i made a list of all the pkgs i have installed with 'qpkg -I', to which i've added dates of installation & a few notes: 1st few lines: 041031 app-admin/fam-2.7.0-r2 [for kdelibs] W 040425 app-admin/gkrellm-2.1.28-r1 [invoke 'gkrellm2'] W 040314 app-admin/sysklogd-1.4.1-r10 [was system: PP logger] S 050226 app-arch/bzip2-1.0.2-r5 041031 app-arch/cabextract-1.1 [for xfree] S 050205 app-arch/cpio-2.6-r1 S 050108 app-arch/gzip-1.3.5-r5 041009 app-arch/ncompress-4.2.4-r1 [for tar: qpkg ~th] 'S' is system, 'W' is world & ' ' is a pkg installed to support another. every weekend, i do 'esync', which updates the Portage tree in my machine, updates the 'esearch' database & lists all pkgs which have changed, hiliting in color those which i have installed (you need to emerge the pkg 'esearch' to get 'esync'). then i do 'emerge -Dup world' to get another view of what to update, & decide which pkgs to actually update, testing with 'emerge -pv '. i edit my list of installed pkgs as i do the emerges. a rule of thumb is to update if you've seen a security alert -- tho' some may not affect your machine, eg a local exploit on a single-user desktop -- or if the 1st or 2nd numbers in the pkg name have gone up. but it's all upto you & that's part of the beauty of Gentoo ... (smile) -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban & Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
Hah, I've been using Gentoo for almost a year now, and I'm still working on getting things setup right! Gentoo is the best! Anything that is written in C++ (X.org, mozilla, kde, openoffice, etc) takes a very long time, and a *lot* of memory to compile. This is mostly because gcc is fairly slow at compiling C++. Gcc recently gained pre-compiled header support, which should improve things dramatically, but none of the C++ packages take advantage of this yet. The level of optimization you choose has a major impact on compile time. I suggest either -Os or -O2 for your level of optimization. For me (pentium4, 512k L2 cache) those both give consistently good performance. Somethings are faster with -Os, and some are faster with -O2, but only by about 5%. I use -Os because it takes a little less time to compile. -O3 gives me wildly varying performance, being 20% faster on some things than -O2, but 20% slower on other things. For me, I update every few days. I do an 'emerge --sync', then an 'emerge -Duv --pretend world' so I can see what has been changed. Then an 'emerge -Duv --fetchonly world' to download all of the sources. If there are a lot of updates, or if they are large C++ packages I will usually wait until I go to bed before doing the 'emerge -Duv world'. Nothing on my system (3Ghz P4 1G ram) takes more than a few hours to compile, so it is always finished when I wake up in the morning. Then do an 'etc-update', reboot, and it is finished. As far as the number of updates, I would say it is 2-3 per day usually. But of course, once the system is up and running, you have a great deal of control over what to update and when. I update everything (emerge -Duv world), but you can choose to update individual packages if you wish, or just security updates, or ... As a side note, a few weeks ago I decided to rebuild the whole system with '-Os'. So I did an 'emerge -Dv --emptytree world'the whole process took about 30 hours! -Richard Harry Putnam wrote: >Being a new user, I'm wanting to get an overview of what an average >gentoo user might do or need to do over a 6mnth period. > >I installed 3 days ago and am still getting things setup. Seems like >an awfull lot of time has gone into emerging stuff I wanted installed. > >Now it turns out there is an update to portage and my system is >telling me it needs to update portage and then update the already >installed packages. 2 more huge chunks of time lost to compiling. > >An activity that seems so intensive that I have been reluctant to and >doubted the advisability of installing or making configs during the >compile process. > >So far I've spent a very lot of time waiting for something to finish >emerging. It seems like things like Mozilla take an extrordinary >long time. > >I'm wondering what a user might see over 6 mnths. How many portage >updates in that amount of time. Howmany `update worlds'. > >-- >gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
> So far I've spent a very lot of time waiting for something > to finish emerging. It seems like things like Mozilla > take an extrordinary long time. OK, mozilla is a strage example. OTOH, I really like Gentoo, but certainly not for compiling everything by myself. I'd really like to see some precompiled packages. Most of the Gentoo Gurus will blame me because selfcompiling is one of the major differences of the Gentoo system. But the Gentoo guidelines clearly state that Gentoo is designed the way that the user has choices. And one of the choices could be: precompiled packages. I see no reason why precompiled packages with all available use flags set shouldn't be possible. In my opinion, emerging everything by myself is simply a waste of time and electric power. Gentoo is a really great distribution, the best I ever have used, but waiting for emerging something can and should be avoided. This is not a complaint at all. I'm very graceful that I'm allowed to use something like Gentoo, but there are simply resons which make me thinging about using a binary based distribution from time to time. No flaming please, I'll not take part in it ;-) . Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Richard Fish wrote: > Nothing on my system (3Ghz P4 1G ram) takes more than a few hours to > compile, so it is always finished when I wake up in the morning. Then > do an 'etc-update', reboot, and it is finished. Reboot? Why? AFAIK it is only necessary (or recommended), if you upgrade glibc (and kernel ofcourse). -- T.G. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On the subject of etc-update, is there any way after an extensive update to work out which package is responsible for a config file update, such as: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14676 Mar 28 15:25 ._cfg_rstartd.real Regards, DigbyT On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 07:52:37PM +0300, Tero Grundström wrote: > On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Richard Fish wrote: > > > Nothing on my system (3Ghz P4 1G ram) takes more than a few hours to > > compile, so it is always finished when I wake up in the morning. Then > > do an 'etc-update', reboot, and it is finished. > > Reboot? Why? AFAIK it is only necessary (or recommended), if you upgrade > glibc (and kernel ofcourse). > > -- > T.G. > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Digby R. S. Tarvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.digbyt.com -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Digby Tarvin wrote: > On the subject of etc-update, is there any way after an extensive update > to work out which package is responsible for a config file update, such > as: >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14676 Mar 28 15:25 ._cfg_rstartd.real You could try listing what files a package emerge, e.g. # etcat files ctorrent [ Results for search key : ctorrent ] [ Candidate applications found : 1 ] Only printing found installed programs. * net-p2p/ctorrent-1.3.4 /usr /usr/share/doc/ctorrent-1.3.4 /usr/share/doc/ctorrent-1.3.4/NEWS.gz /usr/bin /usr/bin/ctorrent /usr/share /usr/share/doc /usr/share/doc/ctorrent-1.3.4/README.gz Any files put under /etc would be listed too. -- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:09:51 +0100, Digby Tarvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the subject of etc-update, is there any way after an extensive update > to work out which package is responsible for a config file update, such > as: >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14676 Mar 28 15:25 ._cfg_rstartd.real > You could look into the 'qpkg' command. Something like: qpkg -f /etc/init.d/rsyncd Will return the package it came from: net-misc/rsync * So, for your case, just find the file it wants to replace and query which package it came from ... I think... -Hani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
Just as a sanity check. I get a warm-n-fuzzy feeling seeing my system boot after an update. Just like running 'sync' after updating a really important document...not _really_ necessary, but it makes me feel better. -Richard Tero Grundström wrote: >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Richard Fish wrote: > > > >>Nothing on my system (3Ghz P4 1G ram) takes more than a few hours to >>compile, so it is always finished when I wake up in the morning. Then >>do an 'etc-update', reboot, and it is finished. >> >> > >Reboot? Why? AFAIK it is only necessary (or recommended), if you upgrade >glibc (and kernel ofcourse). > >-- >T.G. >-- >gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Sunday 27 March 2005 07:34 pm, Nick Rout wrote: > Also you don't need to update just because you can. If, for example, you > stick to security updates, you will have far less compiling. However you > may also miss something exciting on the leading edge. How do you identify security updates? David -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
David Corbin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) scribbled: > On Sunday 27 March 2005 07:34 pm, Nick Rout wrote: > > > Also you don't need to update just because you can. If, for example, you > > stick to security updates, you will have far less compiling. However you > > may also miss something exciting on the leading edge. > > How do you identify security updates? # emerge -av gentoolkit # glsa-check -l # glsa-check -ln | egrep "\[N\]" hth, Cooper. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
1. Every release has a big selection of precompiled GRP packages. 2. http://chinstrap.alternating.net has the same, and is kept up to date. On Mon, 2005-03-28 at 02:12 +0200, Christoph Eckert wrote: > > So far I've spent a very lot of time waiting for something > > to finish emerging. It seems like things like Mozilla > > take an extrordinary long time. > > OK, mozilla is a strage example. > > OTOH, I really like Gentoo, but certainly not for compiling > everything by myself. I'd really like to see some precompiled > packages. > > Most of the Gentoo Gurus will blame me because selfcompiling > is one of the major differences of the Gentoo system. > > But the Gentoo guidelines clearly state that Gentoo is > designed the way that the user has choices. And one of the > choices could be: precompiled packages. > > I see no reason why precompiled packages with all available > use flags set shouldn't be possible. In my opinion, emerging > everything by myself is simply a waste of time and electric > power. Gentoo is a really great distribution, the best I ever > have used, but waiting for emerging something can and should > be avoided. > > This is not a complaint at all. I'm very graceful that I'm > allowed to use something like Gentoo, but there are simply > resons which make me thinging about using a binary based > distribution from time to time. > > No flaming please, I'll not take part in it ;-) . > > > Best regards > > > ce > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > -- Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What an average gentoo user does over 6mnth period
On Mon, 2005-03-28 at 18:09 +0100, Digby Tarvin wrote: > On the subject of etc-update, is there any way after an extensive update > to work out which package is responsible for a config file update, such > as: >-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14676 Mar 28 15:25 ._cfg_rstartd.real the easiest is to find the package that owned the originasl file name. The orig filename was rstartd.real, and assumiong it is in /etc: qpkg -f /etc/rstartd.real -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
