Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 20:44 -0600, Dale wrote:
...
   

Another situation I was thinking about.  Let's say it is as secure as
they CLAIM it to be.  If someone stole my puter, I could go to lostpass
and change the master password or just close the account.  Then even my
computer would be useless to them.  From my understanding you have to
type in the master password from time to time.  If it is changed through
the website, I'm sure it would require it to be re-entered.

 

...

Give most competent techs your machine and the data is theirs - unless
you have taken some extreme precautions.  Standard IBM hardware is not
designed to be secure, and with the exception of some laptops (which in
most cases, things like encryption via the IDE interface available on
some Dell's and others, isnt even turned on!), most of those are not
either.

Lostpass looks ideal for those who lose/forget/do not really understand
what passwords are about - its better than the alternatives such people
come up with (a common, easily guessed password, or none if they can get
away with it).  Got something valuable/want to keep private, dont use
them, or some of the google apps and others.

In fact, I know of some who have a separate, locked down a/c on their
machines just for banking - no browsing (and no extraneous browser
plugins) to other sites etc. - safer! (and relatively simple to do and
manage under nix)

BillK
   


It is true that if a person breaks in and takes your puter, they can do 
anything they want.  I'm sure there are some that can set up their 
system so that grub can't be edited without a password and the file 
system is encrypted but then again, they may take the time to actually 
type in a really long secure password for each site too.


Lastpass is a good start but having something on the net having access 
is what made me post here to begin with.  I would like to have something 
that is close to what lastpass does but just locally or something that 
is confirmed my independent review.  If the code was reviewed by someone 
we all know can be trusted, like the Seamonkey folks, or it was open 
source for all to see, then that would help.  People that know 
programing can put their approval stamp on it that it works and does 
what it says it does and nothing else.


For me, I wouldn't usually forget a password but if a person got the 
password for my checking account, then they would have the password for 
the rest.  I sort of have passwords based on the strength I need.  My 
longest and hardest to guess is my checking and credit card.  Things 
like my email, forums, b.g.o and others could be guessed if someone 
wanted to try it.  I would like to be able to have really long and 
secure for them all but I would get bored of all the typing and having 
to keep up with different ones for each site.


It's funny, the one thing that helps us keep out stuff safe is the most 
difficult to manage.


Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:49:29 +
Stroller  wrote:

   

Everyone's yakking it up because it makes them look clever.
 

Either that, or they're 'yakking it up' in hopes of discouraging a
regular user here from taking an amazing risk with his banking access
passwords.

   

The "Why LastPass is safe" page  is
indeed bullet-points for idiots, and if that was the only
information available on the site then I, too, might be more
suspicious. If you look at the "Technology" summary on the site it
looks far more reasonable:.
Perhaps some other commenters should  have read this before posting?
 

You've missed the point, which is that users have no way of verifying
that the LastPass technology actually behaves the way their web site
claims.

For example, how would you verify that their software, installed on
your own machine, doesn't make a hash of the key to your data and send
it to them?  Of course their web site says they don't do that, and if
that's good enough for you, good luck.

   


And that is why they need to let someone independently review their code 
to see exactly what it does and in some cases, can do.  I trust 
Seamonkey for example for the reason that anyone can see their code.  If 
there was something in the code that allowed Seamonkey to grab passwords 
or other information they shouldn't, then I'm sure someone would speak 
up and say so.  After all, how many people see the source code for 
Seamonkey, thousands, maybe million or more?  I don't think that many 
people can keep a secret like that.


I think lostpass should open up the books so that people can see the 
code.  Then people may trust what they claim and could even make it 
better at that.  There is always someone out there with a better mouse 
trap.  I did read on there somewhere that Mozilla has some of their code 
but it is not all of it.  Not sure if it is the "good" stuff or what tho.


Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[»Q«]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:44:48 -0600
Dale  wrote:

> So, another question.  Is there a tool that is local and would do 
> something like this?  I am using Seamonkey 2.0 nowadays.  It seems to 
> have some tools available to it that the old Seamonkey doesn't.

I don't know of a tool with browser integration.  For a local password
safe, though, there's keepassx, in portage.

-- 
»Q«
 Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[William Kenworthy]

On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 20:44 -0600, Dale wrote:
...
> Another situation I was thinking about.  Let's say it is as secure as 
> they CLAIM it to be.  If someone stole my puter, I could go to lostpass 
> and change the master password or just close the account.  Then even my 
> computer would be useless to them.  From my understanding you have to 
> type in the master password from time to time.  If it is changed through 
> the website, I'm sure it would require it to be re-entered.
> 
...

Give most competent techs your machine and the data is theirs - unless
you have taken some extreme precautions.  Standard IBM hardware is not
designed to be secure, and with the exception of some laptops (which in
most cases, things like encryption via the IDE interface available on
some Dell's and others, isnt even turned on!), most of those are not
either.

Lostpass looks ideal for those who lose/forget/do not really understand
what passwords are about - its better than the alternatives such people
come up with (a common, easily guessed password, or none if they can get
away with it).  Got something valuable/want to keep private, dont use
them, or some of the google apps and others.

In fact, I know of some who have a separate, locked down a/c on their
machines just for banking - no browsing (and no extraneous browser
plugins) to other sites etc. - safer! (and relatively simple to do and
manage under nix)

BillK


-- 
William Kenworthy 
Home in Perth!

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[»Q«]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:49:29 +
Stroller  wrote:

> Everyone's yakking it up because it makes them look clever.

Either that, or they're 'yakking it up' in hopes of discouraging a
regular user here from taking an amazing risk with his banking access
passwords.

> The "Why LastPass is safe" page  is  
> indeed bullet-points for idiots, and if that was the only
> information available on the site then I, too, might be more
> suspicious. If you look at the "Technology" summary on the site it
> looks far more reasonable: .
> Perhaps some other commenters should  have read this before posting?

You've missed the point, which is that users have no way of verifying
that the LastPass technology actually behaves the way their web site
claims.

For example, how would you verify that their software, installed on
your own machine, doesn't make a hash of the key to your data and send
it to them?  Of course their web site says they don't do that, and if
that's good enough for you, good luck.

-- 
»Q«
 Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:


On 28 Nov 2009, at 22:03, Dale wrote:

...
And to think I came here to ask others opinion BEFORE doing this.  I 
was curious as to how this could work myself and if they can be 
trusted, or SHOULD be trusted.  Seems everyone thinks no one should.



Everyone's yakking it up because it makes them look clever.

There's no reason encrypted data can't be stored on the server, then 
decrypted client-side in the web-browser or by using Java (or possibly 
even Javascript).


That's not saying it IS secure, just that such an infrastructure 
should be possible, as much as we consider things like ssh, https &c 
to be "secure".


The "Why LastPass is safe" page  is 
indeed bullet-points for idiots, and if that was the only information 
available on the site then I, too, might be more suspicious. If you 
look at the "Technology" summary on the site it looks far more 
reasonable: . Perhaps some other 
commenters should  have read this before posting?


Would I trust LastPass with child porn or incriminating information 
regarding my plans to overthrow the government?

No, I really think not.

Would I trust it with my bank details and my Slashdot password?
Why not? Those really aren't valuable enough to be worth hacking and 
SSL, AES & RSA ought to be plenty enough to secure them.


Stroller.



This is one reason I thought about using something like this.  If I use 
something that would remember my passwords and type them in for me, then 
I can use really really strong passwords.  You know, passwords like 
this:  !#sd78826=+C0945z$&  I'm not saying that is uncrackable but it 
would take a hacker a while to guess that thing.  Me, I go to my bank 
site a lot so I don't want to have to type something like that in each 
time I go there.  Having something that remembers them and types them in 
for me would be nice.  Tho I would prefer it be local to me and not 
across the internet.


Before someone says that someone can steal my puter, well, they are 
stored here now anyway.  Seamonkey does it for me for most sites.  I 
have the others on post it notes stuck to my monitor.  I don't type in 
my login/password every time I got to the forums or some other site.  
So, if they steal my puter, they can access whatever they want then 
anyway.  They can boot up with /bin/bash, change the passwords and then 
access whatever they want.  We always tell people physical access trumps 
about anything else.


Since my bank changed their website which doesn't let password manager 
in Seamonkey work like it used to, I shortened my password, a LOT.  I 
made it something I could type in easier and faster, even in the dark.  
So by them doing that, it actually made mine less secure.  Of course, 
the bank assumes a lot of that responsibility since they have a $0 risk 
to me.  So, if someone guesses the password, they are on the hook for 
it.  I would like to avoid the hassle tho if I could.


Another situation I was thinking about.  Let's say it is as secure as 
they CLAIM it to be.  If someone stole my puter, I could go to lostpass 
and change the master password or just close the account.  Then even my 
computer would be useless to them.  From my understanding you have to 
type in the master password from time to time.  If it is changed through 
the website, I'm sure it would require it to be re-entered.


So, another question.  Is there a tool that is local and would do 
something like this?  I am using Seamonkey 2.0 nowadays.  It seems to 
have some tools available to it that the old Seamonkey doesn't.


Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] eclipse portage package

[Marcus Wanner]

On 11/28/2009 3:18 PM, Chuck Robey wrote:
Several comments about answers here. First, to Marcus Wanner, yes, the 
first

two eclipse packages work for 3.5, but they AREN'T eclipse, they are plugins for
eclipse (plugins for what I really want).  The 3rd is eclipse-sdk, the only one
you don't cover and the only one I really need.  Of course I know how to handle
them, but without having eclipse itself, it's not useful.
  

In that case, you would follow my instructions, except change the
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge -pv eclipse-ecj
command to
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge -pv eclipse-sdk
and the
emerge -av eclipse-ecj
command to
emerge -av eclipse-sdk

However, if you have it working, you can disregard my advice entirely.

Marcus

Marcus

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Stroller]

On 28 Nov 2009, at 22:03, Dale wrote:

...
And to think I came here to ask others opinion BEFORE doing this.  I  
was curious as to how this could work myself and if they can be  
trusted, or SHOULD be trusted.  Seems everyone thinks no one should.



Everyone's yakking it up because it makes them look clever.

There's no reason encrypted data can't be stored on the server, then  
decrypted client-side in the web-browser or by using Java (or possibly  
even Javascript).


That's not saying it IS secure, just that such an infrastructure  
should be possible, as much as we consider things like ssh, https &c  
to be "secure".


The "Why LastPass is safe" page  is  
indeed bullet-points for idiots, and if that was the only information  
available on the site then I, too, might be more suspicious. If you  
look at the "Technology" summary on the site it looks far more  
reasonable: . Perhaps some other  
commenters should  have read this before posting?


Would I trust LastPass with child porn or incriminating information  
regarding my plans to overthrow the government?

No, I really think not.

Would I trust it with my bank details and my Slashdot password?
Why not? Those really aren't valuable enough to be worth hacking and  
SSL, AES & RSA ought to be plenty enough to secure them.


Stroller.

[gentoo-user] fsck won't work if ac cord not attached?!

[Maxim Wexler]

Hi group,

When my netbook boots under battery power w/o the ac adapter connected
I get this warning msg in the boot  window: 'Skipping fsck due to not
being an ac adapter'. Chaos ensues. The warning appears in
/etc/init.d/fsck.

How do I fix this? Some option in /etc/conf.d/fsck?

If you look for gentoo bug 291654 you get to a page that's difficult
to read, something wonky with the xml, but it describes this problem
and adds that it's fixed "upstream".

I'm using ext2 with the journal option, openrc and baselayout-2. My
latest world update was two days ago.

maxim

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[BRM]

- Original Message 

From: Alan McKinnon 
> On Saturday 28 November 2009 18:31:04 BRM wrote:

> > I do have sources for linux kernel 2.6.30-gentoo-r8 available, but then I
> >  need to be able to write to the read-only fs. Guess I could probably do
> >  that using the kernel command-line, no? (Haven't done that before, so I'm
> >  not sure what the correct option would be.)
> Before these troubles started, did you build a 2.6.30 kernel? If so, you can 
> just boot it, editing the grub command line at boot time as necessary.

Unfortunately not. I have been thinking lately that I should upgrade to a new
kernel - but I don't get around to it very often. So this is probably a good
opportunity to do so.

> If not, fixing it is quite trivially easy: Get a copy of any recent liveCD or 
> rescue image that you can boot, and boot into it. It will find your drives 
> using whatever conventions it uses, and let you mount your gentoo partitions 
> just like you would do with installs. chroot lets you test stuff and you can 
> also use the compiler on the rescue disk to build a new kernel and store it 
> in 
> /boot
> Then boot into that new kernel, everything ought to start properly, and 
> immediately rebuild that kernel using your gentoo system compiler. Along the 
> way you might have to edit your fstab to use sda devices instead of hda ones.

Thanks! That seems to be a good plan. I built it earlier, but for some reason
grub won't boot it - perhaps b/c I gzip compress the kernel (kernel option)?
Not sure. Going to figure it out though.

Right now, I'm using a vintage 2007 live CD; but chrooting over to the 
partitions
on the hard drive. I don't have network since it won't recognize the firmware
needed for my wireless (b43legacy driver). Perhaps I'll try a newer image...

> btw, this is exactly the reason why user-oriented distros like Ubuntu mount 
> system partitions using the fs GUID, not the kernel device name. It gets 
> around this kind of trouble quite elegantly

May solve some headaches, but it also creates an equal number of others - like 
identifying
the partition that matches the GUID.

Thanks!

Ben

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Marcus Wanner]

On 11/28/2009 5:03 PM, Dale wrote:

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On Saturday 28 November 2009 05:50:42 »Q« wrote:
  

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:57:54 +0200
Alan McKinnon  wrote:

[about LastPass]



What I find incredible is that people will accept the site's say-so
that the site admins can't read the data. They have not proven
anything, merely asserted something.

The only way to do give that guarantee is to encrypt the data. Which
then needs a key. Someone must keep the key and it's either you or
them. If it's them, they can decrypt the data (same reason as DRM is
doomed to failure) and if it's you - well if you lose the key you
lose the data.

Are you telling me that there are people gullible enough to actaully
fall for that one?
   

They claim that the decrypted data never leaves your computer and they
they don't have a key to it.  Many, many things aren't clear, such as
what kind of encryption is used (same as the US gov't uses for "Top
Secret" stuff, they say, heh), where and how the key is stored on your
machine, on and on. I wouldn't dream of using them, but yeah, they have
a substantial number of users.
 

I have an alarm system in my head. It's called the "Security by bullshit
baffles brains Alert". It's ringing right now ;-)

Mind you, I have vendors who use exactly the same throw-around-bullshit-
statements-and-see-what-sticks approach. It works on the Account 
Managers all

the time, and works on us techies none of them time.

Lucky for us, techies rule around here. We get to tell the Account 
Managers
that the vendor is talking crap, that we don't have to explain why, 
that we
are not buying their crap and we are not using it, so please tell the 
vendor

to leave the building and stop wasting my time :-)

   


And to think I came here to ask others opinion BEFORE doing this.  I 
was curious as to how this could work myself and if they can be 
trusted, or SHOULD be trusted.  Seems everyone thinks no one should.


That said, because of the way my bank and credit card site accepts the 
login and password, I bet it wouldn't work for them anyway.  If I 
wanted a really long password that would be hard to guess, those two 
would be it.


Dale

:-)  :-)

For my two cents, I would not trust anyone with my passwords, encrypted 
or otherwise. Anyone who falls for this kind of thing should go learn 
about security being a mindset, not a software package, and then check 
out wikipedia's page on email viruses and the like.


Marcus

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Mick]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 19:42:33 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 28 November 2009 21:32:28 Mick wrote:
> > > I suppose one could make several useful -meta packages DEPEND on kate,
> > > as many users want kate and do not want the entire kdesdk package. But
> > > that causes the same app to appear in more than one -meta package and
> > > the devs seem to want to avoid that - there is a strict one-to-one
> > > mapping between what the -meta packages install and what is shipped in
> > > the upstream tarballs by KDE
> >
> > Sorry I'm being rather dense with this ... are you saying that the
> > DEPENDs listed when you run 'equery depends -a kate' are different to
> > mine because you  are running KDE4 from KDE-testing overlay, while I am
> > running stable portage?
> 
> No, the contents of the -meta packages are pretty much the same between the
> overlay and the official tree (apart from new apps added in the latest KDE
> snapshots, and other minor things that get dropped in the new branch of
> course).
> 
> The kde-testing overlay provides a collection of sets which the portage
>  tree does not do. The main set explicitly includes kate because it's part
>  of kdesdk and it's a bit rich to expect all users to install the entire
>  dev suite just to get a gui text editor.
> 
> The official tree has the same situation:
> 
> # grep kate /var/portage/kde-base/*-meta*/*4.3.3.ebuild
> /var/portage/kde-base/kde-meta/kde-meta-4.3.3.ebuild:   $(add_kdebase_dep
> kate)
> /var/portage/kde-base/kdesdk-meta/kdesdk-meta-4.3.3.ebuild:
> $(add_kdebase_dep kate)
> 
> # cat /var/portage/kde-base/kde-meta/kde-meta-4.3.3.ebuild
> ...
> RDEPEND="
> $(add_kdebase_dep kate)
> $(add_kdebase_dep kdeadmin-meta)
> ...
> 
> To give kate to users, it was added to kde-meta, and it's the only explicit
> DEPEND in the ebuild, everything else is the smaller -meta packages.
> 
> To get kate, you must do one of:
> 1. emerge kde-meta (or the @kde set)
> 2. emerge kdesdk (or the @kdesdk set)
> 3. emerge kate

Thank you kindly for persevering - the logic is clear to me now.  :-)

-- 
Regards,
Mick


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Re: [gentoo-user] SPDIF with dmix [Was: Phonon concurrent access on device]

[Florian Philipp]

Miroslav Flídr schrieb:
> Florian Philipp napsal(a):
>> I recently updated one of my systems to KDE4. Now I have the problem
>> that only one application can access the audio output at a time. If I
>> start a second app (for example playing a video with Kaffeine while
>> Amarok runs but is idle) the second application reports that the device
>> "does not work".
>>
>> Is this normal behavior? How can I fix it?
>>
>> Maybe it's an issue with ALSA but before I investigate this option, I'd
>> like to hear a "works for me" from other users.
> 
> 
> I had the same problem. I found the right solution here
> 
> http://noneus.de/?p=50
> 
> 
> Miroslav
> 
> 

Good to know!

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be my problem. Apparently I cannot
create a dmix setup for the "spdif" device (digital output). The error
message when trying to access it is "dmix plugin can be only connected
to hw plugin".

Here is my /etc/asound.conf:
pcm.!default {
type dmix
ipc_key 1025
slave {
   pcm spdif
   period_time 0
   period_size 1024
   buffer_size 4096
   rate 44100
   }

   bindings {
   0 0 1 1
   }
}

The device is a VIA VT8237 AC97 Audio Controller.

I have no clue what spdif (or iec958 for that matter) should be if not
"hw". Of course, they are some kind of alias but my dmix setup works
fine with other aliases like "front" or "surround51".

Could using another level of abstraction (jack, pulse audio) be a
solution? Do they support stuff like software mixing without relying on
ALSA?

Apparently the whole problem is unrelated to phonon. Therefore I'm
changing the thread topic.



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Re: [gentoo-user] eth1 won't start [solved]

[Roger Mason]

Hello John,

John Lowry  writes:

> If you have only the two cards installed you can delete
> everything except for the first entry and the one referencing the card
> currently in the machine and change name to "eth1." So:
>
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:01:03:c5:2a:7b",
> NAME="eth0"
>
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:cc:c8",
> NAME="eth1"

Yes, that fixed it.

Many thanks,
Roger

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On Saturday 28 November 2009 05:50:42 »Q« wrote:
   

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:57:54 +0200
Alan McKinnon  wrote:

[about LastPass]

 

What I find incredible is that people will accept the site's say-so
that the site admins can't read the data. They have not proven
anything, merely asserted something.

The only way to do give that guarantee is to encrypt the data. Which
then needs a key. Someone must keep the key and it's either you or
them. If it's them, they can decrypt the data (same reason as DRM is
doomed to failure) and if it's you - well if you lose the key you
lose the data.

Are you telling me that there are people gullible enough to actaully
fall for that one?
   

They claim that the decrypted data never leaves your computer and they
they don't have a key to it.  Many, many things aren't clear, such as
what kind of encryption is used (same as the US gov't uses for "Top
Secret" stuff, they say, heh), where and how the key is stored on your
machine, on and on. I wouldn't dream of using them, but yeah, they have
a substantial number of users.
 

I have an alarm system in my head. It's called the "Security by bullshit
baffles brains Alert". It's ringing right now ;-)

Mind you, I have vendors who use exactly the same throw-around-bullshit-
statements-and-see-what-sticks approach. It works on the Account Managers all
the time, and works on us techies none of them time.

Lucky for us, techies rule around here. We get to tell the Account Managers
that the vendor is talking crap, that we don't have to explain why, that we
are not buying their crap and we are not using it, so please tell the vendor
to leave the building and stop wasting my time :-)

   


And to think I came here to ask others opinion BEFORE doing this.  I was 
curious as to how this could work myself and if they can be trusted, or 
SHOULD be trusted.  Seems everyone thinks no one should.


That said, because of the way my bank and credit card site accepts the 
login and password, I bet it wouldn't work for them anyway.  If I wanted 
a really long password that would be hard to guess, those two would be it.


Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[David Relson]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:06:59 -0800 (PST)
BRM wrote:

...[snip]...

> Either way, I need to figure out how to get read-access to the root
> partition again. Any advice on either of the above (or other
> options), and more importantly (since any options depend on it) how
> to get read-write access to the root partition again?

I've encountered the "root is read-only and I need read-write"
problem.  My solution is the script below.

#!/bin/sh
sync
/bin/mount -o remount,rw /
/bin/mount -o remount,rw /boot

Of course you can type the commands by hand.  Since you've only got one
partition mounted and it's ro, you don't need the sync.

HTH,

David

Re: [gentoo-user] eclipse portage package

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 22:18:06 Chuck Robey wrote:
> Alan McKinnon's response, below, seems to be telling me that I really
>  should go ahead and try to use the binary from the eclipse site, and not
>  to worry about getting into dependency problems with portage.  Normally,
>  most package tools from any OS get truly destructive if you fail to their
>  tools ONLY, so I was hoping to find some way to effectively lie to
>  portage, keep portage from getting upset.  Seeing as I've gotten no advice
>  on how to hoodwink portage, I just went ahead and used the 3.5.1 (x86-64)
>  version of their Linux(x86-64) binary eclipse package, and it's working
>  just fine.  I had to get the sun-jdk installed (portage at least didn't
>  offer me any problems here) and (at least until I run into more eclipse
>  packages) it all seems to be working.
> 

eclipse, netbeans, android-sdk and a few other development environments come 
with their own maintenance environments. If you install them into /usr/ they 
might cause some trouble (but this is most unlikely)

If you install them into ~/ (where just you can use them) or /usr/local/ 
(where all users can use them), then you are almost certain to not cause any 
problems whatsoever.

There is no need to try to fool portage in any way. All you are doing is the 
exact same principle as using Firefox to manage it's own plugins and 
extensions, just on a larger scale. This is why you got no responses on that 
matter - you are concerned about  problem that does not exist.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] How to install package without dependencies?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 22:16:17 Jarry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Subject says it all: I'd like to install a certain package
> but without its dependencies. No matter what ebuild says,
> I want to install just this package and nothing more.

Did you even try to read the emerge man page?

Obviously not, as it's right there listed as --nodeps

> And I'd like to have this package excluded from all future
> dependency-checks (like revdep-rebuild). How could I do it?

Note that what you are trying will never work. You are asking the roof man to 
build the roof without bothering to build the walls first. So what holds the 
roof up?

The only way this can work is if the dependant package(s) is|are already there 
but portage did not provide it|them. In which case, please save yourself a lot 
of trouble and install the relevant package manually into /usr/local/ or ~/


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] OS inaccessable after brief uptime in X

[Harry Putnam]

I keep having a problem where the OS becomes inaccessable after
running in X for a while.  I haven't noticed a time pattern yet but it
doesn't take long sometimes.

Today I started from an OFF machine, booted up, started X did a few
things  A few minutes later I attempted to login via ssh from a remote
laptop down stairs.  The os is inaccessable via ssh, or port 25 (its
also a mailhup for home lan).

Went back to the actual machine and it is inaccessable from console as
well.

It's happened repeatedly now for a week or two, but I've been busy with
other stuff, and if I need it running I've just left it in console
mode. 

The problem apparently does not occur in console mode.

I see no problem when starting X and I see nothing in
/var/log/messages that gives a clue about what is happening.

I'm running fairly up to date Desktop profile on kernel:

 (uname -a)
  Linux reader 2.6.31-gentoo-r4_rdr-5 #6 SMP 
  Wed Nov 4 09:19:17 CST 2009 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) 
  CPU 3.06GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

I'm not sure how to track down the problem since I'm not seeing any
give away clues in /var/log/messages

So far, once the lockup has happened it appears there is no way in
other than the reboot switch. 

Re: [gentoo-user] eclipse portage package

[Chuck Robey]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 25 November 2009 19:20:43 Chuck Robey wrote:
>> I need to get an up-to-date version of eclipse working on my gentoo
>>  box.  First question is, is there a Galileo (3.5+) version of eclipse
>>  available as a portage package?  I can't find it, so I'd really appreciate
>>  a pointer.  The only thing I can see is a fairly old eclipse version (I
>>  think a year or more out of date).
>>
>> Second question, at the eclipse website, I see a binary version of the
>>  latest Linux-eclipse (the version I'm after).  If I *can't* get a portage
>>  package version of Galileo-eclipse, then if I install the binary package
>>  (non-portage) from the eclipse website, can I get (and how can I get)
>>  portage to consider this package as supplying any dependency which would
>>  be otherwise supplied by the latest (ganymede, 3.4+) portage version of
>>  the eclipse tool

Several comments about answers here.  First, to Marcus Wanner, yes, the first
two eclipse packages work for 3.5, but they AREN'T eclipse, they are plugins for
eclipse (plugins for what I really want).  The 3rd is eclipse-sdk, the only one
you don't cover and the only one I really need.  Of course I know how to handle
them, but without having eclipse itself, it's not useful.

It *seems to me that Mark Knecht is telling me that there's no way the binary
from the eclipse site would work, so he tells me how to install the two which do
me no good.  Again, this isn't helpful.  The 3rd package is (in your own mail)
still stuck at 3.4.x, and that's the real eclipse sdk.

Alan McKinnon's response, below, seems to be telling me that I really should go
ahead and try to use the binary from the eclipse site, and not to worry about
getting into dependency problems with portage.  Normally, most package tools
from any OS get truly destructive if you fail to their tools ONLY, so I was
hoping to find some way to effectively lie to portage, keep portage from getting
upset.  Seeing as I've gotten no advice on how to hoodwink portage, I just went
ahead and used the 3.5.1 (x86-64) version of their Linux(x86-64) binary eclipse
package, and it's working just fine.  I had to get the sun-jdk installed
(portage at least didn't offer me any problems here) and (at least until I run
into more eclipse packages) it all seems to be working.

If think that perhaps I can mask off everything from portage regarding any
eclipse package, and maybe that will lessen my chances of having portage step on
my system for me.  This just occurred to me, and maybe it's the only thing I 
can do.

> 
> Have you considered simply installing the binary eclipse into ~ and 
> maintaining it using the bundled eclipse tools? This removes portage out of 
> the equation entirely - no fooling around with *provided
> 
> That is the method used by most Linux users and it's highly unlikely it won't 
> work - gentoo doesn't do weird things with where libs etc are stored.
> 
> Plus, you have the advantage of being to install plugins directly from 
> eclipse 
> without having to become root and run emerge. It the same order of magnitude 
> as using Firefox to install it's own plugins.
> 

[gentoo-user] How to install package without dependencies?

[Jarry]

Hi,

Subject says it all: I'd like to install a certain package
but without its dependencies. No matter what ebuild says,
I want to install just this package and nothing more.

And I'd like to have this package excluded from all future
dependency-checks (like revdep-rebuild). How could I do it?

Jarry

--
___
This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.

Re: [gentoo-user] Phonon concurrent access on device

[Miroslav Flídr]

Florian Philipp napsal(a):
> I recently updated one of my systems to KDE4. Now I have the problem
> that only one application can access the audio output at a time. If I
> start a second app (for example playing a video with Kaffeine while
> Amarok runs but is idle) the second application reports that the device
> "does not work".
> 
> Is this normal behavior? How can I fix it?
> 
> Maybe it's an issue with ALSA but before I investigate this option, I'd
> like to hear a "works for me" from other users.


I had the same problem. I found the right solution here

http://noneus.de/?p=50


Miroslav

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 21:32:28 Mick wrote:
> > I suppose one could make several useful -meta packages DEPEND on kate, as
> >  many users want kate and do not want the entire kdesdk package. But that
> >  causes the same app to appear in more than one -meta package and the
> > devs seem to want to avoid that - there is a strict one-to-one mapping
> > between what the -meta packages install and what is shipped in the
> > upstream tarballs by KDE
> 
> Sorry I'm being rather dense with this ... are you saying that the DEPENDs 
> listed when you run 'equery depends -a kate' are different to mine because
>  you  are running KDE4 from KDE-testing overlay, while I am running stable
>  portage?
> 

No, the contents of the -meta packages are pretty much the same between the 
overlay and the official tree (apart from new apps added in the latest KDE 
snapshots, and other minor things that get dropped in the new branch of 
course).

The kde-testing overlay provides a collection of sets which the portage tree 
does not do. The main set explicitly includes kate because it's part of kdesdk 
and it's a bit rich to expect all users to install the entire dev suite just 
to get a gui text editor.

The official tree has the same situation:

# grep kate /var/portage/kde-base/*-meta*/*4.3.3.ebuild
/var/portage/kde-base/kde-meta/kde-meta-4.3.3.ebuild:   $(add_kdebase_dep 
kate)
/var/portage/kde-base/kdesdk-meta/kdesdk-meta-4.3.3.ebuild: 
$(add_kdebase_dep kate)

# cat /var/portage/kde-base/kde-meta/kde-meta-4.3.3.ebuild
...
RDEPEND="
$(add_kdebase_dep kate)
$(add_kdebase_dep kdeadmin-meta)
...

To give kate to users, it was added to kde-meta, and it's the only explicit 
DEPEND in the ebuild, everything else is the smaller -meta packages.

To get kate, you must do one of:
1. emerge kde-meta (or the @kde set)
2. emerge kdesdk (or the @kdesdk set)
3. emerge kate

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Mick]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 13:22:14 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 28 November 2009 02:01:22 Mick wrote:
> > > To find out what depends on kate, kweather and kfloppy, use the correct
> > > portage tool:
> > >
> > > a...@nazgul ~ $ equery depends -a kate
> > >  * Searching for kate ...
> > > kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> > > kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.3 (!kdeprefix ?
> > >
> > > >=kde-base/kate-4.3.3[-kdeprefix]) (kdeprefix ?
> > > >
> > >  >=kde-base/kate-4.3.3:4.3[kdeprefix])
> >
> > OK, but I am getting this much - slightly different to yours above:
> >
> > # equery depends -a kate
> > [ Searching for packages depending on kate... ]
> > kde-base/kde-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> > kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> >
> > Now, fair enough, I do not have kde-base/kde-meta installed, so nothing
> >  wants  to pull back in kate when I update world.
> 
> That's normal. The pre-defined sets in kde-testing overlay explicitly list
> kate in the @kde set for that reason.
> 
> I suppose one could make several useful -meta packages DEPEND on kate, as
>  many users want kate and do not want the entire kdesdk package. But that
>  causes the same app to appear in more than one -meta package and the devs
>  seem to want to avoid that - there is a strict one-to-one mapping between
>  what the -meta packages install and what is shipped in the upstream
>  tarballs by KDE

Sorry I'm being rather dense with this ... are you saying that the DEPENDs 
listed when you run 'equery depends -a kate' are different to mine because you 
are running KDE4 from KDE-testing overlay, while I am running stable portage?
-- 
Regards,
Mick


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Re: [gentoo-user] Phonon concurrent access on device

[Florian Philipp]

Alan McKinnon schrieb:
> On Saturday 28 November 2009 13:58:42 Florian Philipp wrote:
>> Hi list!
>>
>> I recently updated one of my systems to KDE4. Now I have the problem
>> that only one application can access the audio output at a time. If I
>> start a second app (for example playing a video with Kaffeine while
>> Amarok runs but is idle) the second application reports that the device
>> "does not work".
>>
>> Is this normal behavior? How can I fix it?
>>
>> Maybe it's an issue with ALSA but before I investigate this option, I'd
>> like to hear a "works for me" from other users.
> 
> Works for me. Also works for most other folks, as no-one else is complaining.
> 
> What are your relevant configs?
> 
> Are you in any way using (god forbid...) arts? esd? pulseaudio? Any sound 
> daemon other than ALSA?
> 
> 

Nah, I think ALSA is just misconfigured and doesn't enable HW/SW mixing.
I'll look into it and come back if I don't find it on my own.

Thanks so far!



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[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Jörg Schaible]

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> On Saturday 28 November 2009 13:59:38 Jörg Schaible wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > On Friday 27 November 2009 23:07:25 Jörg Schaible wrote:
>> >> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday 26 November 2009 19:34:34 James wrote:
>> >> >> kde-4.3.1 went smooth, except
>> >> >> for I have to manually removed all the kde-3.5 packages.
>> >> >> It had kde-meta-3.5.10. Is there some syntax or a better
>> >> >> method to insure all the kde-3.5.x packages are removed,
>> >> >> without a manual sweep?
>> >> >
>> >> > grep kde /var/lib/portage/world
>> >> > and eyeball the output. There should only be -meta packages, and
>> >> > individual packages for which you have NOT installed the -meta
>> >> > package, in there. vi the world file and remove the stuff that
>> >> > shouldn't be there, then
>> >> >
>> >> > emerge -C  && emerge -a
>> >> > --depclean
>> >>
>> >> as alternative simply append to all kde-base/* packages in world :4.3
>> >> and do then a depclean ;-)
>> >
>> > Which promptly defeats the ENTIRE purpose of a world file and -meta
>> > packages.
>> 
>> a) I've never used the meta packages, but selected my KDE apps on purpose
> 
> You missed the part where the user clearly states earlier that he DOES use
> -meta packages. With that in mind, any advice you give should be aligned
> to the fact that he is a -meta user
>
>> b) it's a lot easier this way to get rid of the KDE 3 stuff, however you
>> should get drop of the slot again after depclean has been finished
> 
> How is it easier? You have to maintain the SLOTs in world yourself because
> the instant you do that portage will not automagically offer to upgrade
> anymore (upgrades within the same slot excepted). And --depclean will NOT
> adjust your SLOTs in world when it's finished. I can't really make sense
> of your last sentence but that is what you seem to imply

Yes, that's what I've said. Drop the slot again after depclean has finished.
Exactly because of the upgrades.

>> > If that's how you want to admin your box,
>> 
>> I am using long enough Gentoo that I remember very well the times when
>> portage destroyed the world file completely.
> 
> That was long ago and no longer applicable. That bug in portage got fixed,
> so a behaviour on your part to compensate for a bug that is not there is
> outdated behaviour.
>
>> And regenworld put *anything*
>> into world at that time. Therefore I know very well, what should be in
>> this file and what not. There's no magic.
> 
> Yes, the only things in world are packages you want that are not
> dependencies of something else already in world. You are advising the user
> to put the dependencies of -meta packages into world

No. I adviced him to add :4.3 to all kde-base/* packages that *are* in
world. 

> when the -meta 
> package is already there.

It does not matter in this case if the package is -meta or not.

> 
> And that is plain silly
>  
>> > can I recommend you switch to
>> > sabayon instead?
>> 
>> ROFL! So, you mean, if users get too smart, Gentoo is no longer their
>> distribution? Don't be silly.
> 
> Erm, you should read the whole thread and realise the bits you missed -
> the bits that make your statements nonsensical

All I did, was offering an alternative method to get rid of KDE 3 using
depclean without the need to identify every package individually.

Feel free to ignore it.

- Jörg

Re: [gentoo-user] eth1 won't start

[John Lowry]

Roger Mason wrote:

Hello John & Walt,

Thanks for the responses.  Here is the information you asked for.

John Lowry  writes:


What is the contents of your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules


# PCI device 0x10b7:0x9200 (3c59x)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:01:03:c5:2a:7b",
NAME="eth0"

# PCI device 0x1113:0x1211 (8139too)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:c5:13",
NAME="eth1"

# PCI device 0x1113:0x1211 (8139too)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:cc:c8",
NAME="eth2"

# PCI device 0x10b7:0x9200 (3c59x)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:04:75:8f:8f:b4",
NAME="eth3"




file contain? Also, what about ifconfig -a?


eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:03:C5:2A:7B  
  inet addr:134.153.37.83  Bcast:134.153.37.255

  Mask:255.255.254.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::201:3ff:fec5:2a7b/64 Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:407960 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:1 frame:0
  TX packets:105016 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:70312188 (67.0 Mb)  TX bytes:22034895 (21.0 Mb)
  Interrupt:11 Base address:0x2000 

eth2  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:10:B5:E0:CC:C8  
  BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1

  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
  Interrupt:10 Base address:0x4000 

loLink encap:Local Loopback  
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0

  inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:79 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:79 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:5980 (5.8 Kb)  TX bytes:5980 (5.8 Kb)


sit0  Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
  NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1

  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)


Based on the above it looks like you have had or still have four NICs 
installed? If you have only the two cards installed you can delete 
everything except for the first entry and the one referencing the card 
currently in the machine and change name to "eth1." So:


SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:01:03:c5:2a:7b", 
NAME="eth0"


SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:cc:c8", 
NAME="eth1"

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 18:31:04 BRM wrote:
> - Original Message 
> 
> From: Alan McKinnon 
> 
> > On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:04:10 BRM wrote:
> > > > You also mention /dev/hda and the context implies it is a physical
> > > > disk. Unless you have ancient disk hardware and unusual module setup,
> > > > your disks  will be /dev/sda. Do you have references to /dev/dh** in
> > > > /etc/fstab? That won;t work as udev will not name them that way
> > >
> > > Actually, yes - it is a 2003 Dell D600 with a standard ATA/IDE hard
> > > drive. So yes - it would be /dev/hda; and yes, udev has been working
> > > fine until this issue.
> >
> > For quite some time now IDE drives have been handled below the SCSI
> > subsytem so you do in fact get a /dev/sda, except when using the old
> > deprectaed IDE driver that has been around for ages. That one uses
> > /dev/hda, and it's very unusual these days to find it.
> > You should check what the kernek you are running is using and what udev
> > calls those things as it very likely is not the same as what it was
> > before your kernel & udev upgrade.
> 
> Okay - booted back over to it to do some checking:
> 
> - trying to use /dev/sda1 as the root device (kernel command-line) won't
>  work. - exact kernel version: 2.6.25-gentoo-r7
> - there are no drives (hda, sda, etc.) listed under /dev - kind of expected
>  since udevd isn't running.
> 
> I do have sources for linux kernel 2.6.30-gentoo-r8 available, but then I
>  need to be able to write to the read-only fs. Guess I could probably do
>  that using the kernel command-line, no? (Haven't done that before, so I'm
>  not sure what the correct option would be.)

Before these troubles started, did you build a 2.6.30 kernel? If so, you can 
just boot it, editing the grub command line at boot time as necessary.

If not, fixing it is quite trivially easy: Get a copy of any recent liveCD or 
rescue image that you can boot, and boot into it. It will find your drives 
using whatever conventions it uses, and let you mount your gentoo partitions 
just like you would do with installs. chroot lets you test stuff and you can 
also use the compiler on the rescue disk to build a new kernel and store it in 
/boot

Then boot into that new kernel, everything ought to start properly, and 
immediately rebuild that kernel using your gentoo system compiler. Along the 
way you might have to edit your fstab to use sda devices instead of hda ones.

btw, this is exactly the reason why user-oriented distros like Ubuntu mount 
system partitions using the fs GUID, not the kernel device name. It gets 
around this kind of trouble quite elegantly


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] eth1 won't start

[Roger Mason]

Hello John & Walt,

Thanks for the responses.  Here is the information you asked for.

John Lowry  writes:

> What is the contents of your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules

# PCI device 0x10b7:0x9200 (3c59x)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:01:03:c5:2a:7b",
NAME="eth0"

# PCI device 0x1113:0x1211 (8139too)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:c5:13",
NAME="eth1"

# PCI device 0x1113:0x1211 (8139too)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:10:b5:e0:cc:c8",
NAME="eth2"

# PCI device 0x10b7:0x9200 (3c59x)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:04:75:8f:8f:b4",
NAME="eth3"

> file contain? Also, what about ifconfig -a?

eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:03:C5:2A:7B  
  inet addr:134.153.37.83  Bcast:134.153.37.255
  Mask:255.255.254.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::201:3ff:fec5:2a7b/64 Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:407960 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:1 frame:0
  TX packets:105016 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:70312188 (67.0 Mb)  TX bytes:22034895 (21.0 Mb)
  Interrupt:11 Base address:0x2000 

eth2  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:10:B5:E0:CC:C8  
  BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
  Interrupt:10 Base address:0x4000 

loLink encap:Local Loopback  
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:79 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:79 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:5980 (5.8 Kb)  TX bytes:5980 (5.8 Kb)

sit0  Link encap:IPv6-in-IPv4  
  NOARP  MTU:1480  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)


Best wishes,
Roger

[gentoo-user] gcc-4.4.2 stabilization, where have the bug tracker gone?

[pk]

Subject pretty much says it all. I'm just wondering where it went...
I've tried searching on b.g.o. and google but to no avail (my
"google-fu" may be limited). Does any one know?

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[BRM]

- Original Message 

From: Alan McKinnon 
> On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:04:10 BRM wrote:
> > > You also mention /dev/hda and the context implies it is a physical disk. 
> > > Unless you have ancient disk hardware and unusual module setup, your
> > > disks  will be /dev/sda. Do you have references to /dev/dh** in
> > > /etc/fstab? That won;t work as udev will not name them that way
> > Actually, yes - it is a 2003 Dell D600 with a standard ATA/IDE hard drive.
> > So yes - it would be /dev/hda; and yes, udev has been working fine until
> >  this issue.
> For quite some time now IDE drives have been handled below the SCSI subsytem 
> so you do in fact get a /dev/sda, except when using the old deprectaed IDE 
> driver that has been around for ages. That one uses /dev/hda, and it's very 
> unusual these days to find it.
> You should check what the kernek you are running is using and what udev calls 
> those things as it very likely is not the same as what it was before your 
> kernel & udev upgrade.

Okay - booted back over to it to do some checking:

- trying to use /dev/sda1 as the root device (kernel command-line) won't work.
- exact kernel version: 2.6.25-gentoo-r7
- there are no drives (hda, sda, etc.) listed under /dev - kind of expected 
since udevd isn't running.

I do have sources for linux kernel 2.6.30-gentoo-r8 available, but then I need 
to be able to write to the read-only fs.
Guess I could probably do that using the kernel command-line, no? (Haven't done 
that before, so I'm not sure what
the correct option would be.)

> I want to eliminate obvious things before we go looking for exotic things

Sounds like a good plan.

TIA,

Ben

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:04:10 BRM wrote:
> > You also mention /dev/hda and the context implies it is a physical disk. 
> > Unless you have ancient disk hardware and unusual module setup, your
> > disks  will be /dev/sda. Do you have references to /dev/dh** in
> > /etc/fstab? That won;t work as udev will not name them that way
> 
> Actually, yes - it is a 2003 Dell D600 with a standard ATA/IDE hard drive.
> So yes - it would be /dev/hda; and yes, udev has been working fine until
>  this issue.
> 

For quite some time now IDE drives have been handled below the SCSI subsytem 
so you do in fact get a /dev/sda, except when using the old deprectaed IDE 
driver that has been around for ages. That one uses /dev/hda, and it's very 
unusual these days to find it.

You should check what the kernek you are running is using and what udev calls 
those things as it very likely is not the same as what it was before your 
kernel & udev upgrade.

I want to eliminate obvious things before we go looking for exotic things

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[BRM]

- Original Message 

From: Alan McKinnon 
On Saturday 28 November 2009 06:06:59 BRM wrote:
> > During boot, udevd (version 146, btw) complains about "error getting
> >  signalfd". I did some basic hunting and this seems to have been a big
> >  problem over the last year. I'm running kernel 2.6.25, built on 9/27, from
> >  the gentoo source tree. The system then breaks while trying to do some
> >  drive mounts, and I end up in maintenance mode - with read-only
> >  partitions.

> > The system seems to have the correct partition mounted for the root
> >  partition, but it doesn't report it as /dev/hdaX yet. However, I need
> >  access to the other partitions to get to portage. (Due to size of portage,
> >  and other complications, I've taken to putting it on another partition and
> >  mapping it. Usually this hasn't been a problem.)
> Actual error messages please :-)
> Let's start with what is in dmesg.

dmesg doesn't provide any useful information for this error.
Nor could I find anything in the /var/log/messages.
The only error I got was the "error getting signalfd" from udev's startup at 
boot.

> You also mention /dev/hda and the context implies it is a physical disk. 
> Unless you have ancient disk hardware and unusual module setup, your disks 
> will be /dev/sda. Do you have references to /dev/dh** in /etc/fstab? That 
> won;t work as udev will not name them that way

Actually, yes - it is a 2003 Dell D600 with a standard ATA/IDE hard drive.
So yes - it would be /dev/hda; and yes, udev has been working fine until this 
issue.

Ben

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Markus Schönhaber]

28.11.2009 04:50, »Q«:

> They claim that the decrypted data never leaves your computer and they
> they don't have a key to it.  Many, many things aren't clear, such as
> what kind of encryption is used (same as the US gov't uses for "Top
> Secret" stuff, they say, heh), 

That reminds me of the famous "anti-gravity" ball:
You throw it up - and it comes down.
You throw it down - and it jumps up.
And it's made from the same material the US Air Force uses for the tires
of their top-notch fighter jets.

-- 
Regards
  mks

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 02:01:22 Mick wrote:
> > To find out what depends on kate, kweather and kfloppy, use the correct
> > portage tool:
> > 
> > a...@nazgul ~ $ equery depends -a kate
> >  * Searching for kate ...
> > kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> > kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.3 (!kdeprefix ?
> > >=kde-base/kate-4.3.3[-kdeprefix]) (kdeprefix ?
> >  >=kde-base/kate-4.3.3:4.3[kdeprefix])
> 
> OK, but I am getting this much - slightly different to yours above:
> 
> # equery depends -a kate
> [ Searching for packages depending on kate... ]
> kde-base/kde-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> kde-base/kdesdk-meta-4.3.1 (>=kde-base/kate-4.3.1:4.3[kdeprefix=])
> 
> Now, fair enough, I do not have kde-base/kde-meta installed, so nothing
>  wants  to pull back in kate when I update world.
> 

That's normal. The pre-defined sets in kde-testing overlay explicitly list 
kate in the @kde set for that reason.

I suppose one could make several useful -meta packages DEPEND on kate, as many 
users want kate and do not want the entire kdesdk package. But that causes the 
same app to appear in more than one -meta package and the devs seem to want to 
avoid that - there is a strict one-to-one mapping between what the -meta 
packages install and what is shipped in the upstream tarballs by KDE


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Seamonkey and LastPass

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 05:50:42 »Q« wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:57:54 +0200
> Alan McKinnon  wrote:
> 
> [about LastPass]
> 
> > What I find incredible is that people will accept the site's say-so
> > that the site admins can't read the data. They have not proven
> > anything, merely asserted something.
> >
> > The only way to do give that guarantee is to encrypt the data. Which
> > then needs a key. Someone must keep the key and it's either you or
> > them. If it's them, they can decrypt the data (same reason as DRM is
> > doomed to failure) and if it's you - well if you lose the key you
> > lose the data.
> >
> > Are you telling me that there are people gullible enough to actaully
> > fall for that one?
> 
> They claim that the decrypted data never leaves your computer and they
> they don't have a key to it.  Many, many things aren't clear, such as
> what kind of encryption is used (same as the US gov't uses for "Top
> Secret" stuff, they say, heh), where and how the key is stored on your
> machine, on and on. I wouldn't dream of using them, but yeah, they have
> a substantial number of users.

I have an alarm system in my head. It's called the "Security by bullshit 
baffles brains Alert". It's ringing right now ;-)

Mind you, I have vendors who use exactly the same throw-around-bullshit-
statements-and-see-what-sticks approach. It works on the Account Managers all 
the time, and works on us techies none of them time.

Lucky for us, techies rule around here. We get to tell the Account Managers 
that the vendor is talking crap, that we don't have to explain why, that we 
are not buying their crap and we are not using it, so please tell the vendor 
to leave the building and stop wasting my time :-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 06:06:59 BRM wrote:
> So, I have been running my laptop for quite a while with the current
>  software - it's been well over a week since I last synced and installed
>  software - when I upgraded to KDE4; and I do believe I've rebooted several
>  times since.
> 
> Today, I rebooted back into my old Win2k partition - to do some checking
>  around to clean it up and prep for removal/conversion to a VM image since
>  I've been using gentoo on the laptop for well over a year, and haven't
>  touched the Win2k side for a long time. Having cleaned it up, I rebooted
>  back to gentoo, only to be faced with cascading errors during reboot due
>  to udevd not starting up and mapping the drives, etc.
> 
> During boot, udevd (version 146, btw) complains about "error getting
>  signalfd". I did some basic hunting and this seems to have been a big
>  problem over the last year. I'm running kernel 2.6.25, built on 9/27, from
>  the gentoo source tree. The system then breaks while trying to do some
>  drive mounts, and I end up in maintenance mode - with read-only
>  partitions.
> 
> Most seem to have resolved the issue by moving back to udev 141. I noticed
>  that newer kernels are suppose to work with it, starting with the 2.6.25;
>  so I _should_ have been okay. Needless to say, right now I'm stuck writing
>  this e-mail from Win2k.
> 
> The system seems to have the correct partition mounted for the root
>  partition, but it doesn't report it as /dev/hdaX yet. However, I need
>  access to the other partitions to get to portage. (Due to size of portage,
>  and other complications, I've taken to putting it on another partition and
>  mapping it. Usually this hasn't been a problem.)
> 
> So I think I have a couple options:
> 1) Figure out how to mount the other partitions, and then revert to an
>  older udev 2) Upgrade to a newer kernel - I do have sources for the 2.6.30
>  kernels.
> 
> Either way, I need to figure out how to get read-access to the root
>  partition again. Any advice on either of the above (or other options), and
>  more importantly (since any options depend on it) how to get read-write
>  access to the root partition again?

Actual error messages please :-)

Let's start with what is in dmesg.

You also mention /dev/hda and the context implies it is a physical disk. 
Unless you have ancient disk hardware and unusual module setup, your disks 
will be /dev/sda. Do you have references to /dev/dh** in /etc/fstab? That 
won;t work as udev will not name them that way

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Phonon concurrent access on device

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 13:58:42 Florian Philipp wrote:
> Hi list!
> 
> I recently updated one of my systems to KDE4. Now I have the problem
> that only one application can access the audio output at a time. If I
> start a second app (for example playing a video with Kaffeine while
> Amarok runs but is idle) the second application reports that the device
> "does not work".
> 
> Is this normal behavior? How can I fix it?
> 
> Maybe it's an issue with ALSA but before I investigate this option, I'd
> like to hear a "works for me" from other users.

Works for me. Also works for most other folks, as no-one else is complaining.

What are your relevant configs?

Are you in any way using (god forbid...) arts? esd? pulseaudio? Any sound 
daemon other than ALSA?


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 November 2009 13:59:38 Jörg Schaible wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Friday 27 November 2009 23:07:25 Jörg Schaible wrote:
> >> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> > On Thursday 26 November 2009 19:34:34 James wrote:
> >> >> kde-4.3.1 went smooth, except
> >> >> for I have to manually removed all the kde-3.5 packages.
> >> >> It had kde-meta-3.5.10. Is there some syntax or a better
> >> >> method to insure all the kde-3.5.x packages are removed,
> >> >> without a manual sweep?
> >> >
> >> > grep kde /var/lib/portage/world
> >> > and eyeball the output. There should only be -meta packages, and
> >> > individual packages for which you have NOT installed the -meta
> >> > package, in there. vi the world file and remove the stuff that
> >> > shouldn't be there, then
> >> >
> >> > emerge -C  && emerge -a --depclean
> >>
> >> as alternative simply append to all kde-base/* packages in world :4.3
> >> and do then a depclean ;-)
> >
> > Which promptly defeats the ENTIRE purpose of a world file and -meta
> > packages.
> 
> a) I've never used the meta packages, but selected my KDE apps on purpose

You missed the part where the user clearly states earlier that he DOES use 
-meta packages. With that in mind, any advice you give should be aligned to 
the fact that he is a -meta user

> b) it's a lot easier this way to get rid of the KDE 3 stuff, however you
> should get drop of the slot again after depclean has been finished

How is it easier? You have to maintain the SLOTs in world yourself because the 
instant you do that portage will not automagically offer to upgrade anymore 
(upgrades within the same slot excepted). And --depclean will NOT adjust your 
SLOTs in world when it's finished. I can't really make sense of your last 
sentence but that is what you seem to imply


> > If that's how you want to admin your box,
> 
> I am using long enough Gentoo that I remember very well the times when
> portage destroyed the world file completely. 

That was long ago and no longer applicable. That bug in portage got fixed, so 
a behaviour on your part to compensate for a bug that is not there is outdated 
behaviour.

> And regenworld put *anything*
> into world at that time. Therefore I know very well, what should be in this
> file and what not. There's no magic.

Yes, the only things in world are packages you want that are not dependencies 
of something else already in world. You are advising the user to put the 
dependencies of -meta packages into world when the -meta package is already 
there.

And that is plain silly
 
> > can I recommend you switch to
> > sabayon instead?
> 
> ROFL! So, you mean, if users get too smart, Gentoo is no longer their
> distribution? Don't be silly.

Erm, you should read the whole thread and realise the bits you missed - the 
bits that make your statements nonsensical



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] udev broken...

[Albert Hopkins]

On Fri, 2009-11-27 at 20:06 -0800, BRM wrote:

[... way too much background info removed]

BREVITY! We don't want to have to read about what you had on your
sandwich for lunch or the fight you had with your girl to get to the
meat of what you're trying to say ;-).

Since you didn't paste the link to where you found info on the web, I'll
go ahead and paste what I found for those who may want to follow up:

http://bugs.gentoo.org/281312

To be brief, it basically mentions that udev-145 and kernel-2.6.25 are
not compatible.  Looks like there is a possible patch (to glibc) but the
BZ doesn't really say if/when the patch will be applied in Gentoo.

Rather than waiting on a fix for nearly-obsolete software, here is my
advice:

 1. Boot into a Live CD/stick/whatever.
 2. Chroot into your environment as laid out in the Handbook
 3. Do an emerge --sync
 4. Upgrade *at least* the following:
  * kernel sources (might as well configure/compile it too,
but don't reboot yet)
  * linux-headers
  * glibc (do this *after* linux headers)
  * udev (do this *after* glibc)

Reboot and pray.

HTH,
-a

[gentoo-user] Re: Re: FIXED: Re: KDE3 removal

[Jörg Schaible]

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> On Friday 27 November 2009 23:07:25 Jörg Schaible wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > On Thursday 26 November 2009 19:34:34 James wrote:
>> >> kde-4.3.1 went smooth, except
>> >> for I have to manually removed all the kde-3.5 packages.
>> >> It had kde-meta-3.5.10. Is there some syntax or a better
>> >> method to insure all the kde-3.5.x packages are removed,
>> >> without a manual sweep?
>> >
>> > grep kde /var/lib/portage/world
>> > and eyeball the output. There should only be -meta packages, and
>> > individual packages for which you have NOT installed the -meta package,
>> > in there. vi the world file and remove the stuff that shouldn't be
>> > there, then
>> >
>> > emerge -C  && emerge -a --depclean
>> 
>> as alternative simply append to all kde-base/* packages in world :4.3 and
>>  do then a depclean ;-)
> 
> Which promptly defeats the ENTIRE purpose of a world file and -meta
> packages.

a) I've never used the meta packages, but selected my KDE apps on purpose
b) it's a lot easier this way to get rid of the KDE 3 stuff, however you
should get drop of the slot again after depclean has been finished

> If that's how you want to admin your box,

I am using long enough Gentoo that I remember very well the times when
portage destroyed the world file completely. And regenworld put *anything*
into world at that time. Therefore I know very well, what should be in this
file and what not. There's no magic.

> can I recommend you switch to 
> sabayon instead?

ROFL! So, you mean, if users get too smart, Gentoo is no longer their
distribution? Don't be silly.

- Jörg

[gentoo-user] Phonon concurrent access on device

[Florian Philipp]

Hi list!

I recently updated one of my systems to KDE4. Now I have the problem
that only one application can access the audio output at a time. If I
start a second app (for example playing a video with Kaffeine while
Amarok runs but is idle) the second application reports that the device
"does not work".

Is this normal behavior? How can I fix it?

Maybe it's an issue with ALSA but before I investigate this option, I'd
like to hear a "works for me" from other users.


Thanks in advance
Florian Philipp



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