Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Mick wrote: > On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: >>> Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. >> If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) > If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to nail > it > on the first (re)boot! :-) > > The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a system. > As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' menu option, > console kit daemon is responsible for: > > 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. > 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and associating > the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.). > 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local login session and > pass control of hardware devices to the new user. > 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, check > with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their > login session. > > I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this control > framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who won't > allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. The answer > is > probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments like *box, > Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users and therefore > do > not ultimately need consolekit. > > There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer a > GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a terminal > you'll see your local session, as well as any other login sessions you may be > running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins over ssh and which of these > are active at the time. > > Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to have > taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which > can > run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). > > When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal to > see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. > > You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any applications > which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if some > desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the SDDM Display > Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and even if they are > displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them after a reboot. If after > a reboot you login/out into your Plasma desktop, then elogind will be running > and the SDDM buttons should function again normally. > > I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as > setting in your make.conf: > > USE="elogind -consolekit" > > grep consolekit -r /etc/portage > > to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be > emerged. Then, > > emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit > > emerge -uaNDv @world > > emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a > > rc-update del consolekit > rc-update add elogind boot > > reboot > > >From memory that's all there is to it. I just switched. I kept forgetting to do this when the puter was actually idle. Anyway, I changed the USE flags and did a emerge -uaDN world which updated/installed as new several packages and took about 30 minutes on my rig. Once that was done, I went to the boot runlevel and used the old checkrestart to see what needed restarting. Sadly, the init process, process #1, was in the list. While everything went well enough, so it seems anyway, I'm adding the reply to say this. It seems one does have to reboot. So, if anyone runs up on this thread, be ready for a reboot. I'm not sure what it is that made init need a restart but that's what it showed and I've never seen it listed before. Thanks to all, Mick for sure since he posted a general guide, for the help. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Mick wrote: > On Sunday, 3 November 2019 06:08:15 GMT Dale wrote: >> Mick wrote: >>> On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: > Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) >>> If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to >>> nail it on the first (re)boot! :-) >>> >>> The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a >>> system. As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' >>> menu option, console kit daemon is responsible for: >>> >>> 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. >>> 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and >>> associating the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, >>> monitor, etc.). 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local >>> login session and pass control of hardware devices to the new user. >>> 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, >>> check >>> with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their >>> login session. >>> >>> I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this >>> control >>> framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who >>> won't allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. >>> The answer is probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments >>> like *box, Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users >>> and therefore do not ultimately need consolekit. >>> >>> There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer >>> a GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a >>> terminal you'll see your local session, as well as any other login >>> sessions you may be running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins >>> over ssh and which of these are active at the time. >>> >>> Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to >>> have >>> taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which >>> can run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). >>> >>> When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal >>> to see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. >>> >>> You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any >>> applications >>> which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if >>> some desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the >>> SDDM Display Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and >>> even if they are displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them >>> after a reboot. If after a reboot you login/out into your Plasma >>> desktop, then elogind will be running and the SDDM buttons should >>> function again normally. >>> >>> I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as >>> setting in your make.conf: >>> >>> USE="elogind -consolekit" >>> >>> grep consolekit -r /etc/portage >>> >>> to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be >>> emerged. Then, >>> >>> emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit >>> >>> emerge -uaNDv @world >>> >>> emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a >>> >>> rc-update del consolekit >>> rc-update add elogind boot >>> >>> reboot >>> >>> >From memory that's all there is to it. >> One quick question, is a reboot necessary or would going to single and >> back be enough? I hate rebooting because I've had a init thingy fail a >> couple times in the past. Makes me nervous and my blood pressure go up >> as well. Reminds me a little of hal. :/ >> >> I'm thinking about going ahead and doing this but may sync again first, >> just to be sure the tree is up to date enough. I did a -p on it and it >> doesn't look like to much changes, mostly USE flags. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > I forgot, you should stop the consolekit service before you remove/delete it > and do this *after* you have logged out. > > Since consolekit/elogind are services dealing with desktop user access, you > should at least log out, stop consolekit, start elogind and then log back > into > your KDE/Plasma desktop. Rebooting is not necessary, although I tend to > reboot just to check boot services (re)start as they should and there are no > errors/clashes. > OK, thanks much. Since it is a service, I thought a reboot may not be required but wanted to be sure. The extra information did help me with what I thought would be required, like stopping consolekit first. That hadn't occurred to me. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 06:08:15 GMT Dale wrote: > Mick wrote: > > On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: > >> On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: > >>> Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. > >> > >> If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) > > > > If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to > > nail it on the first (re)boot! :-) > > > > The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a > > system. As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' > > menu option, console kit daemon is responsible for: > > > > 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. > > 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and > > associating the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, > > monitor, etc.). 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local > > login session and pass control of hardware devices to the new user. > > 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, > > check > > with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their > > login session. > > > > I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this > > control > > framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who > > won't allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. > > The answer is probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments > > like *box, Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users > > and therefore do not ultimately need consolekit. > > > > There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer > > a GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a > > terminal you'll see your local session, as well as any other login > > sessions you may be running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins > > over ssh and which of these are active at the time. > > > > Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to > > have > > taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which > > can run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). > > > > When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal > > to see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. > > > > You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any > > applications > > which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if > > some desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the > > SDDM Display Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and > > even if they are displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them > > after a reboot. If after a reboot you login/out into your Plasma > > desktop, then elogind will be running and the SDDM buttons should > > function again normally. > > > > I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as > > setting in your make.conf: > > > > USE="elogind -consolekit" > > > > grep consolekit -r /etc/portage > > > > to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be > > emerged. Then, > > > > emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit > > > > emerge -uaNDv @world > > > > emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a > > > > rc-update del consolekit > > rc-update add elogind boot > > > > reboot > > > > >From memory that's all there is to it. > > One quick question, is a reboot necessary or would going to single and > back be enough? I hate rebooting because I've had a init thingy fail a > couple times in the past. Makes me nervous and my blood pressure go up > as well. Reminds me a little of hal. :/ > > I'm thinking about going ahead and doing this but may sync again first, > just to be sure the tree is up to date enough. I did a -p on it and it > doesn't look like to much changes, mostly USE flags. > > Thanks. > > Dale > > :-) :-) I forgot, you should stop the consolekit service before you remove/delete it and do this *after* you have logged out. Since consolekit/elogind are services dealing with desktop user access, you should at least log out, stop consolekit, start elogind and then log back into your KDE/Plasma desktop. Rebooting is not necessary, although I tend to reboot just to check boot services (re)start as they should and there are no errors/clashes. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Mick wrote: > On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: >>> Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. >> If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) > If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to nail > it > on the first (re)boot! :-) > > The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a system. > As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' menu option, > console kit daemon is responsible for: > > 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. > 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and associating > the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.). > 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local login session and > pass control of hardware devices to the new user. > 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, check > with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their > login session. > > I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this control > framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who won't > allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. The answer > is > probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments like *box, > Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users and therefore > do > not ultimately need consolekit. > > There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer a > GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a terminal > you'll see your local session, as well as any other login sessions you may be > running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins over ssh and which of these > are active at the time. > > Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to have > taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which > can > run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). > > When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal to > see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. > > You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any applications > which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if some > desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the SDDM Display > Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and even if they are > displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them after a reboot. If after > a reboot you login/out into your Plasma desktop, then elogind will be running > and the SDDM buttons should function again normally. > > I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as > setting in your make.conf: > > USE="elogind -consolekit" > > grep consolekit -r /etc/portage > > to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be > emerged. Then, > > emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit > > emerge -uaNDv @world > > emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a > > rc-update del consolekit > rc-update add elogind boot > > reboot > > >From memory that's all there is to it. One quick question, is a reboot necessary or would going to single and back be enough? I hate rebooting because I've had a init thingy fail a couple times in the past. Makes me nervous and my blood pressure go up as well. Reminds me a little of hal. :/ I'm thinking about going ahead and doing this but may sync again first, just to be sure the tree is up to date enough. I did a -p on it and it doesn't look like to much changes, mostly USE flags. Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Mick wrote: > On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: >>> Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. >> If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) > If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to nail > it > on the first (re)boot! :-) > > The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a system. > As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' menu option, > console kit daemon is responsible for: > > 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. > 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and associating > the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.). > 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local login session and > pass control of hardware devices to the new user. > 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, check > with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their > login session. > > I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this control > framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who won't > allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. The answer > is > probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments like *box, > Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users and therefore > do > not ultimately need consolekit. > > There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer a > GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a terminal > you'll see your local session, as well as any other login sessions you may be > running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins over ssh and which of these > are active at the time. > > Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to have > taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which > can > run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). > > When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal to > see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. > > You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any applications > which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if some > desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the SDDM Display > Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and even if they are > displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them after a reboot. If after > a reboot you login/out into your Plasma desktop, then elogind will be running > and the SDDM buttons should function again normally. > > I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as > setting in your make.conf: > > USE="elogind -consolekit" > > grep consolekit -r /etc/portage > > to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be > emerged. Then, > > emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit > > emerge -uaNDv @world > > emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a > > rc-update del consolekit > rc-update add elogind boot > > reboot > > >From memory that's all there is to it. Thanks much for the info. Let's not go down the hal road. Still gets my blood pressure up. lol It sounds like I don't need it but most likely KDE will moan and groan without it so I'll just switch and let the chips fall where they may. I guess if nothing else, while it is still in the tree at least, I could switch back and try to find solutions to whatever I run into. Once it's gone tho, not a option, easy one at least. Thanks again. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
On Monday, 28 October 2019 08:25:06 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: > > Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. > > If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) If hald's list of devices has anything to do with it, Dale is bound to nail it on the first (re)boot! :-) The consolekit framework is responsible switching between users on a system. As I understand it, when you go to 'Plasma/Leave/Switch User' menu option, console kit daemon is responsible for: 1. Looking at PAM and any processes you own as a user in a login session. 2. Checking which seat (local or remote) you are logged in as and associating the hardware you are using with it (e.g. keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.). 3. Connecting to the d-bus system bus to manage the local login session and pass control of hardware devices to the new user. 4. When the new user enters their credentials at the Display Manager, check with PAM what processes the new user is authorised to access/use in their login session. I should have the above mostly correct. You may ask if any of this control framework complexity is *necessary* for a single user called Dale, who won't allow anyone else to take his 'seat' at the PC without a fight. The answer is probably no, and this is why simpler desktop environments like *box, Enlightenment, etc. do not offer the facility to switch users and therefore do not ultimately need consolekit. There are no screenshots of consolekit/elogind because AFAIK neither offer a GUI application. However, when you run 'ck-list-sessions' in a terminal you'll see your local session, as well as any other login sessions you may be running at the time, e.g. /dev/tt1, remote logins over ssh and which of these are active at the time. Since consolekit is no longer under development and systemd appears to have taken over most of the Linux distros, elogind is the current service which can run as stand alone on openrc (just as udev of systemd does). When elogind is running you can use 'loginctl list-sessions' in a terminal to see who's running a session. The man page gives more options. You don't *have* to add elogind as a boot service, because any applications which need it will launch it themselves. However, don't be surprised if some desktop functions are not working as expected. For example, the SDDM Display Manager's shutdown/reboot buttons may not be displayed and even if they are displayed they'll do nothing when you click on them after a reboot. If after a reboot you login/out into your Plasma desktop, then elogind will be running and the SDDM buttons should function again normally. I have converted a number of systems to elogind. It should be as easy as setting in your make.conf: USE="elogind -consolekit" grep consolekit -r /etc/portage to find and remove/replace any USE flags still asking for consolekit to be emerged. Then, emerge --depclean -v -a consolekit emerge -uaNDv @world emerge @preserved-rebuild -v -a rc-update del consolekit rc-update add elogind boot reboot >From memory that's all there is to it. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
On 28/10/19 2:23 pm, Arve Barsnes wrote: > On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 at 04:38, Dale wrote: >> Also, are there any other options to elogind? Is that the only option >> when using KDE? > I think the answer here is yes. > > I run openbox, so no requirement to have this at all, but I have > previously done the migration to elogind, and that went without a > hitch. With no experience to back me up, I think the thing that might > break upon migration is the shutdown/reboot scripts, so you might have > to reboot from the commandline. Otherwise I don't expect much trouble. > > Regards, > Arve > It works for me - but its annoying in that its inherited some parts of the systemd "stuff you - I dont care, I am going to take it over anyway" attitude. For me its laptop suspend/hibernate - its never worked as well as previous scripts and it seems it cant be undone. Its also quite chatty in the logs - also annoying. I know the author is responsive and has done a good job in just being able to get it to work, but he has started with crapware and it shows. (sorry, but suspend/hibernate is a sore point for me) BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:46:45 -0500, Dale wrote: > Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. If it works for you it will be good news for the rest of us ;-) -- Neil Bothwick There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation. pgpzS_8Fl7iLb.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Arve Barsnes wrote: > On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 at 04:38, Dale wrote: >> Also, are there any other options to elogind? Is that the only option >> when using KDE? > I think the answer here is yes. > > I run openbox, so no requirement to have this at all, but I have > previously done the migration to elogind, and that went without a > hitch. With no experience to back me up, I think the thing that might > break upon migration is the shutdown/reboot scripts, so you might have > to reboot from the commandline. Otherwise I don't expect much trouble. > > Regards, > Arve > > Thanks much for the info. Maybe the switch will go well for me too. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 at 04:38, Dale wrote: > Also, are there any other options to elogind? Is that the only option > when using KDE? I think the answer here is yes. I run openbox, so no requirement to have this at all, but I have previously done the migration to elogind, and that went without a hitch. With no experience to back me up, I think the thing that might break upon migration is the shutdown/reboot scripts, so you might have to reboot from the commandline. Otherwise I don't expect much trouble. Regards, Arve
[gentoo-user] Consolekit and elogind switch questions
Howdy, I subscribe to -dev and read things to get a heads up mostly. I noticed a news item being started concerning consolekit and switching to elogind. From my understanding it is similar to the difference of udev and eudev in that it just pulls the code needed when not using systemd and friends. I do have consolekit here and since the news item and the migration guide mentions removing consolekit, I'm pretty sure the news item has my name all over it and I'm about to switch. Given the outdated nature of consolekit, may be a good thing. Before I start down this road, I have questions. What exactly is it? Is it the screen that pops up when X starts and asks for my login? Is it something inside KDE itself that manages the Desktop itself? I think the first one is sddm. So I'm suspecting it is the later one. Or is it something that I won't even notice the change in? Something that runs in the background and I don't see? Just trying to figure out exactly what it is I'm changing, not that I'm against it because it seems it is needed. Has anyone already switched and if so, was it fairly straight forward and easy or did it require something outside the norm, like shutting down X and doing from a console? I generally update etc from a Konsole inside KDE. One of the things mentioned something about a session becoming corrupted during this is one reason I ask. This comment: "Migration is easy, but if run from within a consolekit session that session may become broken." I'm not sure but I think Konsole uses consolekit. Heck, console itself may use it too. If someone has a screenshot that shows the difference, I'd love to see it. Post a link to a pic hosting site, send it off list or whatever works. I tried to google for screenshots but most mention Gnome and I use KDE. I also poked around Gentoo but it seems to be Gnome as well. Add in that I'm not sure what I'm looking for, I may not know it when I see it anyway. LOL Also, are there any other options to elogind? Is that the only option when using KDE? Thanks to anyone who can clear up some of this confusion on my part. Dale :-) :-)
