Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 10:42:22AM +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote If a person does not wish to stay up to date, if they simply wish to have a stable system, is getting busy really a reason to change operating systems? If you're connecting to the internet, you *MUST* keep your system up to date, to maintain security. Yes even linux systems have some security problems. A lot fewer than Windows, but it does happen. Problems with the actual kernel are only a small part of the problem. Flash, Adobe PDF, Java, etc, have had a few problems which can occur on all platforms they run on. What's so time-consuming about once-a-week... * emerge --sync * emerge --ask --deep --update --world The update world can be started just before going to bed G. Update kernel once every couple of months or when a GLSA requires it. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-Original Message- From: Walter Dnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 3:33 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ? On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 10:42:22AM +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote If a person does not wish to stay up to date, if they simply wish to have a stable system, is getting busy really a reason to change operating systems? If you're connecting to the internet, you *MUST* keep your system up to date, to maintain security. Yes even linux systems have some security problems. A lot fewer than Windows, but it does happen. Problems with the actual kernel are only a small part of the problem. Flash, Adobe PDF, Java, etc, have had a few problems which can occur on all platforms they run on. What's so time-consuming about once-a-week... * emerge --sync * emerge --ask --deep --update --world The update world can be started just before going to bed G. Update kernel once every couple of months or when a GLSA requires it. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- For the average user (I know, the average user is not using Gentoo), emerge --any set of options world is no trivial task. For the average user, Security means padlocks and car alarms. The average user is using their machine for movies and video games, and doesn't have the time to fight with bugs if emerging world doesn't go quite right. :P -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Sun, 20 May 2007 02:33:24 -0400 Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're connecting to the internet, you *MUST* keep your system up to date, to maintain security. Not necessarily. You only have to update programs with known security holes. New versions are just as likely to introduce unknown holes as fix old unknown holes. Furthermore, for most persons' desktop/laptop systems, there's no need to be listening on any ports at all. That should tighten up security pretty well, so I don't see why it's so critical to always be updating. Perhaps i'm wrong? That having been said, I do think it's generally a good idea to keep up to date. Wait too long, and you just cause unnecessary problems for yourself when you finally need to upgrade something. But that having been said, if you find it a giant hassle, why not just stop doing it unless absolutely necessary? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Nick wrote: That was fantastic. Thank you. From the bottom of my geek mind and heart, I thank you. I will complete it, and add some music to it. I guess the Audacity team will be clearly disturbed by me in the following days. I read this to my girlfriend; she didn't seem impressed. Clearly, this is her fault, not the fault of the poem. The poem is perfect. Oh, well, what can you expect from a simple punk-rocker? http://www.jamendo.com/es/album/5136/ - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica OpenPGP for HTTP: New Web-Auth Scheme: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/2599 Consulting and Secure Mail Hosting: http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUFIlAlpOsGhXcE0RCo9HAJ9d2BCCiYvSDSyceLSZhkxFgcBFtQCfXDvX JLT/gy6ezEE4SsJhQY+V5YY= =hAdd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once you get used to it, you'll probably like Gentoo: most people do. Those who leave usually are very busy in their lives simply don't have the time to keep it upto-date. If a person does not wish to stay up to date, if they simply wish to have a stable system, is getting busy really a reason to change operating systems? Yeah, I'm thinking that it's really not too bad to keep my Gentoo system running reasonably up to date. My personal update strategy is just to wait until I get a security problem from Gentoo-Announce saying that one of my packages has a problem. If I don't get that then I stay with the packages my system has. If it ain't broke, don't fix it :) R -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGT1qD7So1xaF/eR8RAnpqAJ96JTmzwkmAGyp1Qy06zn0FvDS7ewCgwXHt zGGjXSc+CpFIOmudgCX4h3E= =Zc2O -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 I can't stand it anymore! Since the KISS word appeared on the subject line of gentoo-user I had this idea, and now you're gonna MAKE FUN OF ME, ok? For you, from the bottom of my geek mind and heart :P Tonight I'm gonna do a stage 1 fight... In the darkness There's so much i wanna MAKE... And Tonight I wanna layman at your feet Gentoo I was made for you Emerge you were made for me. I was made for loving you Gentoo, you were made for loving me. And i won't stop compiling you Gentoo, are you done compiling C? :P - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica OpenPGP for HTTP: New Web-Auth Scheme: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/2599 Consulting and Secure Mail Hosting: http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGT3EZAlpOsGhXcE0RClxEAJ930cZZmFLM7UjaKrB9kJe0KPhUbACfUryd mbaeCNf77WLsffD1FmaTPTE= =5S2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
LOL! On 5/19/07, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 I can't stand it anymore! Since the KISS word appeared on the subject line of gentoo-user I had this idea, and now you're gonna MAKE FUN OF ME, ok? For you, from the bottom of my geek mind and heart :P Tonight I'm gonna do a stage 1 fight... In the darkness There's so much i wanna MAKE... And Tonight I wanna layman at your feet Gentoo I was made for you Emerge you were made for me. I was made for loving you Gentoo, you were made for loving me. And i won't stop compiling you Gentoo, are you done compiling C? :P - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica OpenPGP for HTTP: New Web-Auth Scheme: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/2599 Consulting and Secure Mail Hosting: http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGT3EZAlpOsGhXcE0RClxEAJ930cZZmFLM7UjaKrB9kJe0KPhUbACfUryd mbaeCNf77WLsffD1FmaTPTE= =5S2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- -·=»Ðŧħ«=·-
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 06:50:17PM -0300, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote: For you, from the bottom of my geek mind and heart :P Tonight I'm gonna do a stage 1 fight... In the darkness There's so much i wanna MAKE... And Tonight I wanna layman at your feet Gentoo I was made for you Emerge you were made for me. I was made for loving you Gentoo, you were made for loving me. And i won't stop compiling you Gentoo, are you done compiling C? That was fantastic. Thank you. From the bottom of my geek mind and heart, I thank you. I read this to my girlfriend; she didn't seem impressed. Clearly, this is her fault, not the fault of the poem. The poem is perfect. -- GPG Key : www.njw.me.uk/nick.gpg.asc GPG Key ID: 04E4653F GPG Fingerprint: 9732 D7C7 A441 D79E FDF0 94F6 1F48 5674 04E4 653F SIP : [EMAIL PROTECTED]PSTN: 0560 0030509 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Friday 18 May 2007 15:04, arnuld wrote: OK, i found Gentoo a great incident of my life :-), 10 installations and on 11th time i knew what went wrong in last 10 times and from there it never went wrong ;-). i want to use Gentoo but i have one doubt. i am much more inclined towards using simple things, like simplicity in designing an OS. i see, CRUX and Arch are based on simplicity, the KISS principle and nothing else. i want to know whether Gentoo has simplicity or KISS and clean structure in its design as an OS ? this is the only thing that is stopping me from using Gentoo. Gentoo philosophy says *nothing* about simplicity, it talks only about customisation. any idea of if KISS is present in Gentoo design ? NOTE: i have observed one thing. i have used Gentoo for 2 days only and now i am trying to use Arch and CRUX but i see, for me, it is very difficult to use and work with them them since i am getting used to a lower level of things. happened with anybody ? AFAIK, Gentoo filosophy is about choices. If you want it simple, you can keep it simple. If you don't, you can do it too. And you discovered what was going wrong in your first 10 installations, right? Can you tell if it was well documentated? If it was your mistake in jumping some topics of the handbook? I am a experienced Linux user, and I can tell: if not 100%, something very close of it of the problems I had in Gentoo installation was due to my mistakes. But I don't blame Gentoo. ;) []'s .m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
OK, i found Gentoo a great incident of my life :-), 10 installations and on 11th time i knew what went wrong in last 10 times and from there it never went wrong ;-). i want to use Gentoo but i have one doubt. i am much more inclined towards using simple things, like simplicity in designing an OS. i see, CRUX and Arch are based on simplicity, the KISS principle and nothing else. i want to know whether Gentoo has simplicity or KISS and clean structure in its design as an OS ? this is the only thing that is stopping me from using Gentoo. Gentoo philosophy says *nothing* about simplicity, it talks only about customisation. any idea of if KISS is present in Gentoo design ? NOTE: i have observed one thing. i have used Gentoo for 2 days only and now i am trying to use Arch and CRUX but i see, for me, it is very difficult to use and work with them them since i am getting used to a lower level of things. happened with anybody ? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On 5/18/07, Mauro Faccenda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AFAIK, Gentoo filosophy is about choices. If you want it simple, you can keep it simple. If you don't, you can do it too. oh. And you discovered what was going wrong in your first 10 installations, right? Can you tell if it was well documentated? If it was your mistake in jumping some topics of the handbook? no, it is NOT in the handbook. there were many mistakes. i only remember the 3: 1.) i had a Serial-ATA drive and AMD64 on ASUS with VIA chipsets. kernel-compilation part of Handbook asks to choose PPP options and MCE features etc etc but it did not tell to select VIA82xx and VIA SATA and VIA PATA options for serial driver. any Serial-ATAhard-disk will not boot properly without them. (of course, others will have some other motherboards, Intel e.g., but we can leave that to the user for finding the specific SATA and PATA drivers inthe kernel.) 2.) i entered /dev/hda instead of /dev/sda in /etc/fstab. my mistake, of course. 3.) i entered /dev/sda1 / ext3 when i had reiserfs fro my /. this too was my mistake I am a experienced Linux user, and I can tell: if not 100%, something very close of it of the problems I had in Gentoo installation was due to my mistakes. yep, 99% it was *my* mistake. But I don't blame Gentoo. ;) hey.. i did not blame Gentoo in my earlier post. -- http://arnuld.blogspot.com/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 arnuld wrote: 1.) i had a Serial-ATA drive and AMD64 on ASUS with VIA chipsets. kernel-compilation part of Handbook asks to choose PPP options and MCE [...] other motherboards, Intel e.g., but we can leave that to the user for finding the specific SATA and PATA drivers inthe kernel.) Well, if you are brave enough to configure your own kernel... don't complain! genkernel works fine, most of the times. - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica OpenPGP for HTTP: New Web-Auth Scheme: http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/2599 Consulting and Secure Mail Hosting: http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGTfhCAlpOsGhXcE0RCvsjAJwP9LUK8515wgC3yjy/oiaktikghACggKnR kZ55PHeRCgW6T/y3PuHIPNE= =5xBB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On 5/18/07, Mauro Faccenda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, none of those errors is Gentoo specific. It's kernel compilations problems, and you'll have those in any distribution. Even the binary ones, if you want to install a custom kernel. for the users that can't compile the kernel by himself, Gentoo provides the genkernel, that works quite well (I never needed to use it, but I know some guys that love it). i'm not sure, but the default kernel instalation method in the handbook is using genkernel. so, it could be simplier (if with it you mean easier) if you want it to. and seems that you don't (choosing the manual method ;) ). i am talking of *both* methods. i don't remember anything *exactly* but with genkernel i had exactly same weired problems when i didn't choose VIA PATA in my kernel while compiling manually. i tried 2 times and after that i quit generkernel and decided always to do a transparent manual kernel-compilation. yep, 99% it was *my* mistake. But I don't blame Gentoo. ;) hey.. i did not blame Gentoo in my earlier post. ok, fine. oh! about your NOTE on your earlier post: it happened to mee too. i tryied, but i couldn't go back to a higher level distro. i felt really unconfortable. anyway, good luck. []'s .m -- http://arnuld.blogspot.com/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
070518 arnuld wrote: On 5/18/07, Mauro Faccenda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AFAIK, Gentoo filosophy is about choices. If you want it simple, you can keep it simple. If you don't, you can do it too. yep, 99% it was *my* mistake. hey.. i did not blame Gentoo in my earlier post. Yes, Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own box, make their own choices learn from their own mistakes. I installed Gentoo on my machine 031007 haven't re-installed since: I check once a week for packages to update (avoid 'emerge world') decide how close to the cut/bleeding edges I want to be. I plan to build a new machine later this year install Gentoo there too. Once you get used to it, you'll probably like Gentoo: most people do. Those who leave usually are very busy in their lives simply don't have the time to keep it upto-date. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
arnuld wrote: i am talking of *both* methods. i don't remember anything *exactly* but with genkernel i had exactly same weired problems when i didn't choose VIA PATA in my kernel while compiling manually. i tried 2 times and after that i quit generkernel and decided always to do a transparent manual kernel-compilation. I tried genkernel a while back and I decided to do my own too. After the first time, you just do a make oldconfig and walk through the new stuff. It's not to bad. Most of the time you can say no to the new stuff anyway, unless you have something that doesn't work. Dale :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/-remove-me-dalek1967 Copy n paste then remove the -remove-me- part. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Fri, 18 May 2007 18:04:16 + arnuld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i want to know whether Gentoo has simplicity or KISS and clean structure in its design as an OS ? this is the only thing that is stopping me from using Gentoo. Gentoo philosophy says *nothing* about simplicity, it talks only about customisation. any idea of if KISS is present in Gentoo design ? In my humble opinion, gentoo is the only distribution worth considering when it comes to keeping the system simple. Any other distro, and you're going to have to pick through lists of packages disabling all that you know you don't need; with gentoo, you can install what you know you _do_ need, and go from there. The initial footprint is a little bigger at first because of the developent tools you need to build your own software, but if you want to keep it small you'll have much more success with gentoo than with anything else. The one other caveat is that portage is bulky, slow, and space-consuming. But there are many ways to combat this, and it's really not an issue if you have lots of gentoo hosts. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
-Original Message- From: Philip Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 4:26 AM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ? snip Once you get used to it, you'll probably like Gentoo: most people do. Those who leave usually are very busy in their lives simply don't have the time to keep it upto-date. If a person does not wish to stay up to date, if they simply wish to have a stable system, is getting busy really a reason to change operating systems? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
/etc/genkernel.conf
MENUCONFIG=no
MRPROPER=no
CLEAN=no
BOOTSPLASH=no
SAVE_CONFIG=yes
DEBUGLEVEL=5
BOOTLOADER=grub
USECOLOR=yes
cd /usr/src/linux
zcat /proc/config.gz .config
make oldconfig
genkernel --kernname=WhateverFitsMyMood all
the above gives you you the power to configure your kernel to suit
your needs, -and- makes genkernel useful as a time-saving 'ok, just
build it ' tool :)
Of course it did help when that bug in genkernel mid2005 was fixed ;),
a trunicated grub.conf is no fun.
On 5/19/07, Roy Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
arnuld wrote:
1.) i had a Serial-ATA drive and AMD64 on ASUS with VIA chipsets.
kernel-compilation part of Handbook asks to choose PPP options and MCE
[...]
other motherboards, Intel e.g., but we can leave that to the user for
finding the specific SATA and PATA drivers inthe kernel.)
Well, if you are brave enough to configure your own kernel... don't
complain!
genkernel works fine, most of the times.
genkernel is for wimps... Way to go arnuld!
Seriously, genkernel is fine for liveCD and the first month for a NOOB.
But to really learn/exploit/enjoy/appreciate Gentoo, you gotta have it
your way... If not, then you might as well be running ubuntu... :-)
Have fun,
Roy
Gentoo x86, ~x86, PS3
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
sorry, top posted :S... damn gmail forgetting.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo and KISS ?
On Samstag, 19. Mai 2007, Kent Fredric wrote: /etc/genkernel.conf MENUCONFIG=no MRPROPER=no CLEAN=no BOOTSPLASH=no SAVE_CONFIG=yes DEBUGLEVEL=5 BOOTLOADER=grub USECOLOR=yes cd /usr/src/linux zcat /proc/config.gz .config make oldconfig genkernel --kernname=WhateverFitsMyMood all the above gives you you the power to configure your kernel to suit your needs, -and- makes genkernel useful as a time-saving 'ok, just build it ' tool :) and that is faster than zcat /proc/config.gz .config make oldconfig make all modules_install install ? or easier? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
