Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Trenton Adams schreef: On 1/15/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trenton Adams schreef: On 1/14/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB The appearance of USE flags (which is what we're talking about) is unrelated to whether or not you have the package installed already snip Oh, I get it. the thing that confused me was that he put the USE=, so I thought he was showing me what use flags he had set, not the output of the emerge command. Now I see he was showing the output of the emerge command and adding USE=. Either that, or he's using a newer version of emerge that outputs USE= for him. Yes, he probably is using the unstable version of Portage; mine does this as well if I use the -v (--verbose) switch (I just went fully ~x86 a couple of days ago): emerge -pv mozilla-firefox portage These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=gnome java xprint -debug -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-apps/portage-2.1_pre3-r1 USE=-build -doc 0 kB It's a new Portage feature. Not sure if I like it, but it's not important enough for me to get worked up about, really. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:48:04 -0500, Dan wrote: The presence of a USE flag may not change, but its default setting can. If you have with no setting for mozilla in USE, emerge mozilla and then do emerge --info, you'll see mozilla added to USE. Some other packages have similar effects, I think postgresql also does it. see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/35143 for more information. Sanity prevails :) -- Neil Bothwick QOTD: The only easy way to tell a hamster from a gerbil is that the gerbil has more dark meat. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/15/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trenton Adams schreef: On 1/14/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/14/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. False. carcharias rjf # ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin | grep gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB If you already have gnome installed, gnome won't show up unless you go --tree, will it? Either way, you can take a look in the ebuild file for firefox 1.5, and there's no reference to gnome. No checking of the gnome useflag or anything like that. 1.0.7 has it though. The appearance of USE flags (which is what we're talking about) is unrelated to whether or not you have the package installed already-- a USE flag does not appear or disappear based on whether you have the relevant package installed. In fact, the USE flag controls to great degree whether you install the relevant dependency or not (i.e., if K3b optionally depends on KDE, then enabling the kde USE flag will install additional, optional KDE support programs. But since K3b requires kdelibs and kdebase to run at all, these hard dependencies are not controlled by the USE flag). Oh, I get it. the thing that confused me was that he put the USE=, so I thought he was showing me what use flags he had set, not the output of the emerge command. Now I see he was showing the output of the emerge command and adding USE=. Either that, or he's using a newer version of emerge that outputs USE= for him. In any case: emerge -pv mozilla-firefox gnome-light These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=gnome java xprint -debug -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama 0 kB [ebuild R ] gnome-base/gnome-light-2.12.0 0 kB As you see, I do have GNOME installed, and the gnome USE flag does still appear in the Firefox prospective emerge output. | Runtime Dependencies | mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 | | gnome = gnome-base/gnome-vfs - 2.3.5 | Title: gnome-vfs | Description: Gnome Virtual Filesystem So enabling the gnome USE flag adds a runtime dependency on the GNOME virtual file system. Which sounds an awful lot like something that might affect dialogs. However, since there were a lot of complaints about the old dialog, I strongly doubt that disabling this flag would change the dialogs terribly significantly, except that you wouldn't have the GNOME extras that I mentioned before. It's quite likely that even the naked new dialog is a lot like the current GNOME dialog. And again, the likely reason that there is no reference to GNOME in the ebuild is because the references to GNOME integration and compatibility are *in the source code*, because the *Mozilla developers chose* this dialog *as the default* (but not the only) choice of dialog. That is their good right, just as it is your good right to change that if you so desire (since that is apparently quite possible to do). Ebuilds don't do anything but compile the code as given, with some slight modification to work within the Gentoo system (as opposed to the RedHat system or the SuSE system). Ebuilds certainly don't change things as integral to the operation of the program as the format and type of file dialogs. I suppose you could trawl through the source and see where this is set and then write an ebuild to make the choice of file dialog type a configure option-- maybe. If it's already a configure option. Which I doubt. But you could look. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/14/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/14/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. False. carcharias rjf # ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin | grep gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB -Richard If you already have gnome installed, gnome won't show up unless you go --tree, will it? Either way, you can take a look in the ebuild file for firefox 1.5, and there's no reference to gnome. No checking of the gnome useflag or anything like that. 1.0.7 has it though. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Trenton Adams schreef: On 1/14/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/14/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. False. carcharias rjf # ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin | grep gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB If you already have gnome installed, gnome won't show up unless you go --tree, will it? Either way, you can take a look in the ebuild file for firefox 1.5, and there's no reference to gnome. No checking of the gnome useflag or anything like that. 1.0.7 has it though. The appearance of USE flags (which is what we're talking about) is unrelated to whether or not you have the package installed already-- a USE flag does not appear or disappear based on whether you have the relevant package installed. In fact, the USE flag controls to great degree whether you install the relevant dependency or not (i.e., if K3b optionally depends on KDE, then enabling the kde USE flag will install additional, optional KDE support programs. But since K3b requires kdelibs and kdebase to run at all, these hard dependencies are not controlled by the USE flag). In any case: emerge -pv mozilla-firefox gnome-light These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=gnome java xprint -debug -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama 0 kB [ebuild R ] gnome-base/gnome-light-2.12.0 0 kB As you see, I do have GNOME installed, and the gnome USE flag does still appear in the Firefox prospective emerge output. | Runtime Dependencies | mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 | | gnome = gnome-base/gnome-vfs - 2.3.5 | Title: gnome-vfs | Description: Gnome Virtual Filesystem So enabling the gnome USE flag adds a runtime dependency on the GNOME virtual file system. Which sounds an awful lot like something that might affect dialogs. However, since there were a lot of complaints about the old dialog, I strongly doubt that disabling this flag would change the dialogs terribly significantly, except that you wouldn't have the GNOME extras that I mentioned before. It's quite likely that even the naked new dialog is a lot like the current GNOME dialog. And again, the likely reason that there is no reference to GNOME in the ebuild is because the references to GNOME integration and compatibility are *in the source code*, because the *Mozilla developers chose* this dialog *as the default* (but not the only) choice of dialog. That is their good right, just as it is your good right to change that if you so desire (since that is apparently quite possible to do). Ebuilds don't do anything but compile the code as given, with some slight modification to work within the Gentoo system (as opposed to the RedHat system or the SuSE system). Ebuilds certainly don't change things as integral to the operation of the program as the format and type of file dialogs. I suppose you could trawl through the source and see where this is set and then write an ebuild to make the choice of file dialog type a configure option-- maybe. If it's already a configure option. Which I doubt. But you could look. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:28:10 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote: The appearance of USE flags (which is what we're talking about) is unrelated to whether or not you have the package installed already-- a USE flag does not appear or disappear based on whether you have the relevant package installed. The presence of a USE flag may not change, but its default setting can. If you have with no setting for mozilla in USE, emerge mozilla and then do emerge --info, you'll see mozilla added to USE. Some other packages have similar effects, I think postgresql also does it. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 29: Soft rock signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:28:10 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote: The appearance of USE flags (which is what we're talking about) is unrelated to whether or not you have the package installed already-- a USE flag does not appear or disappear based on whether you have the relevant package installed. The presence of a USE flag may not change, but its default setting can. If you have with no setting for mozilla in USE, emerge mozilla and then do emerge --info, you'll see mozilla added to USE. Some other packages have similar effects, I think postgresql also does it. see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/35143 for more information. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/15/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/14/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/14/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. False. carcharias rjf # ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin | grep gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB -Richard If you already have gnome installed, gnome won't show up unless you go --tree, will it? True, but it doesn't matter. My firefox is not linked to any gnome libraries, therefor it is entirely possible to build firefox without gnome. Again: # for x in `find /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/ -type f` ; do test -x $x ldd $x done | grep gnome | wc -l 0 # for x in `find /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/ -type f` ; do test -x $x ldd $x done | grep gtk | wc -l 17 Either way, you can take a look in the ebuild file for firefox 1.5, and there's no reference to gnome. No checking of the gnome useflag or anything like that. 1.0.7 has it though. This is because the ebuild inherits mozconfig-2.eclass, and the gnome flag checking is done there. (portage/eclass/mozconfig-2.eclass). -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Trenton Adams wrote: On 1/14/06, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it's not the gnome use flag because I disable gnome in my use flags. And besides, the firefox 1.5 ebuild does not use the gnome use flag. And I added it for testing purposes to see if I could prevent it from being used. I just copied from the older firefox. It's moved from the mozilla-firefox ebuild into mozconfig-2.eclass. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So the reason why the open/save dialogs are the same is because they use the same resources (GTK settings, many of which can be set in GNOME). Yet the previous versions of mozilla-firefox did not use this open/save dialog. Or is it an gtk upgrade which caused it? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Graham Murray wrote: Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So the reason why the open/save dialogs are the same is because they use the same resources (GTK settings, many of which can be set in GNOME). Yet the previous versions of mozilla-firefox did not use this open/save dialog. Correct. So? Things change. Or is it an gtk upgrade which caused it? No. It is the gnome USE flag. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/14/06, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Graham Murray wrote: Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So the reason why the open/save dialogs are the same is because they use the same resources (GTK settings, many of which can be set in GNOME). Yet the previous versions of mozilla-firefox did not use this open/save dialog. Correct. So? Things change. Or is it an gtk upgrade which caused it? No. It is the gnome USE flag. Well, it's not the gnome use flag because I disable gnome in my use flags. And besides, the firefox 1.5 ebuild does not use the gnome use flag. And I added it for testing purposes to see if I could prevent it from being used. I just copied from the older firefox. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/13/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trenton Adams schreef: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about something. I installed mozilla-firefox-bin, and I got what I *thought* was the gnome open/save dialog. And I absolutely I can't stand that thing. So, I decided to compile mozilla-firefox for myself, as I have -gnome in my use flags. Well for some reason, I still have that open/save dialog. So, is that a gnome open/save dialog, or is it something else? Yes, as far as I know, it is (though I myself do have GNOME installed). Firefox depends on gtk: (from www.gentoo-portage.com ; the compile-it-yourself version used for clarity, since even the bin has to be originally compiled by someone): Runtime Dependencies mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 |app-arch/unzip |app-arch/zip |dev-libs/expat |= dev-libs/glib - 2.8.2 |= dev-libs/libIDL - 0.8.0 |= media-libs/jpeg - 6b |= media-libs/libmng - 1.0.0 |= media-libs/libpng - 1.2.1 |= sys-libs/zlib - 1.1.4 |= www-client/mozilla-launcher - 1.42 |= www-client/mozilla-launcher - 1.39 |! x11-base/xorg-x11 - 6.7.0-r2 |= x11-libs/cairo - 1.0.0 === x11-libs/gtk+ - 2.8.6 |x11-libs/libXmu |x11-libs/libXmu |x11-libs/libXrender |x11-libs/libXrender |x11-libs/libXt |x11-libs/libXt | = x11-libs/pango - 1.10.1 |gnome = gnome-base/gnome-vfs - 2.3.5 |virtual/x11 |virtual/x11 |java virtual/jre Firefox is a GTK application, so it uses the GTK toolkit (as opposed to the QT toolkit, which KDE uses). The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. GNOME is a GTK-based DE (as opposed to KDE which is QT-based). So the reason why the open/save dialogs are the same is because they use the same resources (GTK settings, many of which can be set in GNOME). I can't say if the extra features that I have because I have GNOME installed are present in your open/save dialog (bookmarked folders, for example). Is there going to be a way of NOT making it the standard open/save dialog when firefox 1.5 gets unmasked? Masking or unmasking is not going to change the source code, which depends on GTK. Only upstream can recode the program with a different toolkit. And that seems unlikely to happen, since it hasn't happened yet (and if the toolset was going to change, it probably would have before 1.0, not suddenly now when the release is finally stable enough to be picking up steam fast in the popularity stakes). Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Trenton Adams schreef: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. No, it has nothing to do with the ebuild, it's a choice of the Mozilla.org developers. But perhaps you missed Edwin Kapauni's post, linking you to a thread on the forums where they tell you how to change the dialog to either the old one, or even the KDE one. For ease of searching, here it is again: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-2934098-highlight-.html#2931694 Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/14/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trenton Adams schreef: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. No, it has nothing to do with the ebuild, it's a choice of the Mozilla.org developers. But perhaps you missed Edwin Kapauni's post, linking you to a thread on the forums where they tell you how to change the dialog to either the old one, or even the KDE one. For ease of searching, here it is again: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-2934098-highlight-.html#2931694 Yes, I missed that, thanks. When a message is small, it's hard to notice in gmail, amongst a bunch of other ones. :( Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/14/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old version could disable gnome, but 1.5 can't. Perhaps it's a firefox 1.5 ebuild limitation? I hope that's what it is, because I can't stand gnome. False. carcharias rjf # ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin | grep gnome carcharias rjf # emerge -pv mozilla-firefox These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] www-client/mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 USE=java -debug -gnome -ipv6 -mozdevelop -xinerama -xprint 0 kB -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
Trenton Adams schreef: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about something. I installed mozilla-firefox-bin, and I got what I *thought* was the gnome open/save dialog. And I absolutely I can't stand that thing. So, I decided to compile mozilla-firefox for myself, as I have -gnome in my use flags. Well for some reason, I still have that open/save dialog. So, is that a gnome open/save dialog, or is it something else? Yes, as far as I know, it is (though I myself do have GNOME installed). Firefox depends on gtk: (from www.gentoo-portage.com ; the compile-it-yourself version used for clarity, since even the bin has to be originally compiled by someone): Runtime Dependencies mozilla-firefox-1.5-r9 |app-arch/unzip |app-arch/zip |dev-libs/expat |= dev-libs/glib - 2.8.2 |= dev-libs/libIDL - 0.8.0 |= media-libs/jpeg - 6b |= media-libs/libmng - 1.0.0 |= media-libs/libpng - 1.2.1 |= sys-libs/zlib - 1.1.4 |= www-client/mozilla-launcher - 1.42 |= www-client/mozilla-launcher - 1.39 |! x11-base/xorg-x11 - 6.7.0-r2 |= x11-libs/cairo - 1.0.0 === x11-libs/gtk+ - 2.8.6 |x11-libs/libXmu |x11-libs/libXmu |x11-libs/libXrender |x11-libs/libXrender |x11-libs/libXt |x11-libs/libXt | = x11-libs/pango - 1.10.1 |gnome = gnome-base/gnome-vfs - 2.3.5 |virtual/x11 |virtual/x11 |java virtual/jre Firefox is a GTK application, so it uses the GTK toolkit (as opposed to the QT toolkit, which KDE uses). GNOME is a GTK-based DE (as opposed to KDE which is QT-based). So the reason why the open/save dialogs are the same is because they use the same resources (GTK settings, many of which can be set in GNOME). I can't say if the extra features that I have because I have GNOME installed are present in your open/save dialog (bookmarked folders, for example). Is there going to be a way of NOT making it the standard open/save dialog when firefox 1.5 gets unmasked? Masking or unmasking is not going to change the source code, which depends on GTK. Only upstream can recode the program with a different toolkit. And that seems unlikely to happen, since it hasn't happened yet (and if the toolset was going to change, it probably would have before 1.0, not suddenly now when the release is finally stable enough to be picking up steam fast in the popularity stakes). Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] mozilla firefox 1.5 and gnome
On 1/13/06, Trenton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about something. I installed mozilla-firefox-bin, and I got what I *thought* was the gnome open/save dialog. And I absolutely I can't stand that thing. This is what happens when usability experts design your interfaces. Your only option is to complain to one of the mozilla channels (forums, newsgroups, etc). -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
