Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-04 Thread Georg Witwer

First of all I'd like to thank you for your feedback. We had a
Userrel/Userreps meeting last Saturday and had a vote about the issue.
It resulted in instating Alex Bogak aka
djay-il as the eleventh and last User Representative. This motion passed
unanimously and Alex accepted the position with immediate effect.

It was a pragmatic decision for the good of the project and I do hope
that you all understand this.

But I think we need to work out a new voting procedure and rules that
settle such issues anyways. The ones that are in place right now,
where worked out when the whole project was rather unclear and it
would make sense to rethink them now that the project has come to
life.

Best regards,
loki99
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-02 Thread Georg Witwer

On 12/2/06, Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


My only concern is that if this process gets abused, a majority of
userreps could expel a minority and handpick their replacements to match
their own ideas... but then again, this isn't a money / power
controlling seat, so I counter myself with would that really ever
happen? and so what if it did?!

I see that on http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userreps/index.xml
members are elected each year?  In which case I think my above concern
would be even less a reality, as ousted members could raise support for
the next election anyway.

However, perhaps you should have a short policy for election and
replacement of members, so that if you ever are questioned, at least you
can say We did it by the book.


We as Userreps can only get rid of one of us if that person breaches
the social contact that can be read on our project site, And if we
would dismiss someone we would declare ourself quite thoroughly to the
community and to Userrel too. But as Bo mentioned in the post above,
it was Userrels decision. Antarus promised to post an announcement to
this ML today.


 Building up a team with people that hardly know each other is not an
 easy task. It took us quite some time to get to know each other and to
 find a way to work somehow efficiently together. We are different to
 any other project in Gentoo land because we did not pick our team by
 ourself, but let others, you the user community, choose our team.
 That's the way it has to be of course but it's a handicap,
 nevertheless.

But keeping variety is essential, especially for gentoo.  I doubt adding
one unknown member to the team will throw you all back to the days when
you didn't know each other.  That one new member will more quickly get
to know the group (and vice versa) than the time a whole new group would
take.  So perhaps the next on the list is a good idea?


You are right about that. But keeping in mind that this might not be
the only loss to our group in the next year (some of the userreps have
not been too active, ie.) and if we have to keep on picking up people
that haven't shown any interest in the project so far, it will slow us
down.

I think it would be fair to let us choose any substitute within the
term, because a year really passes by fast and all of us will be
judged on our work at the next election anyhow.


However, it seems like djay-il deserves a bit of recognition for his
efforts, and placing him in the position would do that.

So, I've said both yes and no!  In the end, I guess the decision is up
to the team what method they choose.


Thanks, for your opinion. :)
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-02 Thread Georg Witwer

Small correction: antarus said he'll mail to userrel-ML about it.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-02 Thread Daniel Iliev
Georg Witwer wrote:
 As you might have noticed or heard, cokehabit isn't part of the
 Userreps project any longer. He and Userel obviously didn't get along
 very well and there has been some troubles on IRC and on bugzilla,
 which I didn't get a chance to see though. But I talked shortly with
 cokehabit about it and he didn't object to leave the project, so we
 have a vacant Userreps seat atm.

 Since this is the first time that one of us left, we have to find a
 rule on how we are to restaff that vacant seat. Impov, there are three
 different options that we have. We could either go thru the whole
 voting process again, which seem to be quite some work and would
 definitely need some time or we could simply ask the ones that where
 next on the list from the initial vote, to see if they are still
 interested in doing the job or we let the appointed Userreps decide
 who they want to have in their team to work with.

 Even though the voting idea seems to be the logical thing to do, at
 least to me when I thought about it first, it's the option I really
 don't want to have and almost everyone from Userreps/Userrel agrees on
 this point. It would just take to much time and effort, since we don't
 want the mistakes of the first vote be repeated, like having better
 announcements and getting the whole user community not just forum
 peeps to vote.

 Picking the next one on the list that shows interest, is an option
 that doesn't take much time and seems to be fair since they have
 proven to have the support in the user community at the first vote.

 The third option is to let us Userreps pick someone we know and that
 has shown interest in our project. And plainly spoken, this is the
 option I favor the most, as does the rest of Userreps and Userrel.
 Here is why:

 Building up a team with people that hardly know each other is not an
 easy task. It took us quite some time to get to know each other and to
 find a way to work somehow efficiently together. We are different to
 any other project in Gentoo land because we did not pick our team by
 ourself, but let others, you the user community, choose our team.
 That's the way it has to be of course but it's a handicap,
 nevertheless.

 Since the whole project was started there has only been one user, who
 also ran for Userreps btw, that  followed our moves very closely. He
 is in our channel (#gentoo-userreps) almost all the time, he takes
 part in all our and userrel meetings, he is well known and respected
 in the devs community, he made lots of useful suggestion and took the
 time to write various concepts for his ideas, all of us Userreps value
 him and his opinion quite high and we get along with him very well.

 After the 11th seat got vacant, there wasn't really any discussion
 about it since it was obvious that we all wanted to have
 [url=http://forums.gentoo.org/profile.php?mode=viewprofileu=105924]djay[/url]

 (aka djay-il [irc] aka Alex Bogak [rl]) as our new team member. Most
 of the devs believed that he was a Userrep anyways because he showed
 up at all the meetings and actively took part in all the discussions.
 :lol: And Userrel also seems to strongly agree with this idea.

 So I am here to ask your support to make djay our 11th member on the
 next Userreps/Userrel meeting this Saturday. He knows his way around
 and we know him quite well and he would fit just perfect in our team.
 If you want us to move on, to do the things we were voted for as fast
 as possible, please show us your support by dropping a few lines. If
 you think that this is not ok, please drop us a few lines to explain
 why.

An idea out of the box style:
Why not take that guy djay because he already acts like a part of the
project anyway, the second from the previous voting because it's fast
and logical, and a third one from a new voting because it would be fair?
This way everyone would be happy. ;-)
Yep, why restrict the project to only 11 members?

-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread b.n.

WTF?
It seems an hybrid between a spam mail and an old fashoned Warsaw Pact 
speech. But I have guessed it has something to do with gentoo...

Can someone please translate it?

Thanks,
m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Georg Witwer

mmmh whats the problem brullonulla?

you can speak to me
:%

On 12/1/06, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

WTF?
It seems an hybrid between a spam mail and an old fashoned Warsaw Pact
speech. But I have guessed it has something to do with gentoo...
Can someone please translate it?

Thanks,
m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Georg Witwer

perhaps that helps ;)

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userreps/index.xml
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Hemmann, Volker Armin
*thumbs up*

just do it, I am ok with it.

I am just surprised, that cokehabit got so far at all
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread b.n.

Georg Witwer ha scritto:

perhaps that helps ;)

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userreps/index.xml


Yes, it helped. :)
Sorry, but I am not that much into gentoo gossip :) , so I really lost 
that one. The funny style made the rest.


Thanks.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Georg Witwer

No problem! I know I'm not that good at writing such things and I just
copied the text from my forums post where it is a little bit more in
context with my userreps title showing and all. I was a bit in a
hurry. Sorry about that! ;)

loki99

On 12/1/06, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Georg Witwer ha scritto:
 perhaps that helps ;)

 http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userreps/index.xml

Yes, it helped. :)
Sorry, but I am not that much into gentoo gossip :) , so I really lost
that one. The funny style made the rest.

Thanks.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Iain Buchanan
On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 13:12 +0100, Georg Witwer wrote:
...
 So I am here to ask your support to make djay our 11th member on the
 next Userreps/Userrel meeting this Saturday...

My only concern is that if this process gets abused, a majority of
userreps could expel a minority and handpick their replacements to match
their own ideas... but then again, this isn't a money / power
controlling seat, so I counter myself with would that really ever
happen? and so what if it did?!

I see that on http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userreps/index.xml
members are elected each year?  In which case I think my above concern
would be even less a reality, as ousted members could raise support for
the next election anyway.

However, perhaps you should have a short policy for election and
replacement of members, so that if you ever are questioned, at least you
can say We did it by the book.

 Building up a team with people that hardly know each other is not an
 easy task. It took us quite some time to get to know each other and to
 find a way to work somehow efficiently together. We are different to
 any other project in Gentoo land because we did not pick our team by
 ourself, but let others, you the user community, choose our team.
 That's the way it has to be of course but it's a handicap,
 nevertheless. 

But keeping variety is essential, especially for gentoo.  I doubt adding
one unknown member to the team will throw you all back to the days when
you didn't know each other.  That one new member will more quickly get
to know the group (and vice versa) than the time a whole new group would
take.  So perhaps the next on the list is a good idea?

However, it seems like djay-il deserves a bit of recognition for his
efforts, and placing him in the position would do that.

So, I've said both yes and no!  In the end, I guess the decision is up
to the team what method they choose.

cya,
-- 
Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au

When you say that you agree to a thing in principle, you mean that
you have not the slightest intention of carrying it out in practice.
-- Otto Von Bismarck

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Re: [gentoo-user] Restaffing the 11th Userrep seat

2006-12-01 Thread Bo Ørsted Andresen
On Saturday 02 December 2006 02:22, Iain Buchanan wrote:
  So I am here to ask your support to make djay our 11th member on the
  next Userreps/Userrel meeting this Saturday...

I'm all for the remaining userreps just appointing djay and be done with it. 
They are supposed to represent the users after all and AFAIK they are 
unanimous so I really don't see a problem.

 My only concern is that if this process gets abused, a majority of
 userreps could expel a minority and handpick their replacements to match
 their own ideas...

He wasn't actually expelled by the userreps. He was expelled by userrel [1] 
due to unacceptable behaviour.

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/

-- 
Bo Andresen


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