Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > Maybe someone here has seen this before: > > amd64 > 2.6.26-gentoo > KDE-4.1 > nVidia 8600M GT > nvidia-drivers-177.13 (latest unstable) > nvidia OpenGL > xorg-server-1.4.99.906 > > Yes, it's bleeding-edge :-) This is in an effort to get some > performance out > of what should be a very decent video card. It also eats > babies, or more often > the window decorations on konsole. > > About once a day I find my konsole is no longer decorated, and > I can't get > kwin to put them back. I could close and open konsole but > that's a hassle and > involves re-doing the umpteen sessions I always have open. I > tried "kwin -- > replace" but that crashes KDE and/or X (not sure which) > > Is there an easy way to get kwin-4.1 to redecorate a single > open window? > > -- > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > I don't know about the bug, but screen can safe you the hassle of having to open all your sessions again?
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 09:12:06 Dirk Uys wrote: > I don't know about the bug, but screen can safe you the hassle of > having to open all your sessions again? Screen is indeed god's gift to sysadmins, it's almost as useful as bash :-) I do use it a lot, and for more and better reasons than just recovering from terminal crashes, but I'd still have the hassle of ssh'ing into all those machines all over again. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008 09:12:06 Dirk Uys wrote: > >> I don't know about the bug, but screen can safe you the hassle of >> having to open all your sessions again? > > Screen is indeed god's gift to sysadmins, it's almost as useful as bash :-) > I do use it a lot, and for more and better reasons than just recovering from > terminal crashes, but I'd still have the hassle of ssh'ing into all those > machines all over again. > But you can open a screen session on your client pc in konsole and ssh from different screen sessions? Screen -> ssh -> screen ? Dunno? This is just me waffling a bit, the desire to speak up and having something to say is not always the same thing I guess? Regards Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 09:29:42 Dirk Uys wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Friday 15 August 2008 09:12:06 Dirk Uys wrote: > >> I don't know about the bug, but screen can safe you the hassle of > >> having to open all your sessions again? > > > > Screen is indeed god's gift to sysadmins, it's almost as useful as bash > > :-) I do use it a lot, and for more and better reasons than just > > recovering from terminal crashes, but I'd still have the hassle of > > ssh'ing into all those machines all over again. > > But you can open a screen session on your client pc in konsole and ssh > from different screen sessions? Screen -> ssh -> screen ? Dunno? This > is just me waffling a bit, the desire to speak up and having something > to say is not always the same thing I guess? I could do that, but there's a security implication involved. Those sessions are root sessions on some very important machines and I want a little more security between @ARB_BAD_GUY and those hosts than just Unix file permissions on my notebook :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > Hi all, > > Maybe someone here has seen this before: > > amd64 > 2.6.26-gentoo > KDE-4.1 > nVidia 8600M GT > nvidia-drivers-177.13 (latest unstable) > nvidia OpenGL > xorg-server-1.4.99.906 any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 10:26:39 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Maybe someone here has seen this before: > > > > amd64 > > 2.6.26-gentoo > > KDE-4.1 > > nVidia 8600M GT > > nvidia-drivers-177.13 (latest unstable) > > nvidia OpenGL > > xorg-server-1.4.99.906 > > any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or > improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release. Obviously you are not one of the unfortunate misfits who was stupid enough to buy a new notebook with a nVidia 8 or 9 series card :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008 10:26:39 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Maybe someone here has seen this before: > > > > > > amd64 > > > 2.6.26-gentoo > > > KDE-4.1 > > > nVidia 8600M GT > > > nvidia-drivers-177.13 (latest unstable) > > > nvidia OpenGL > > > xorg-server-1.4.99.906 > > > > any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or > > improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release. > > Obviously you are not one of the unfortunate misfits who was stupid enough > to buy a new notebook with a nVidia 8 or 9 series card :-) no, but I owned a 8600GT which works fine with current stable X and stable/unstable nvidia drivers. Why should a prerelease X be needed at all?
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Alan McKinnon ha scritto: On Friday 15 August 2008 10:26:39 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: Hi all, Maybe someone here has seen this before: amd64 2.6.26-gentoo KDE-4.1 nVidia 8600M GT nvidia-drivers-177.13 (latest unstable) nvidia OpenGL xorg-server-1.4.99.906 any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release. Obviously you are not one of the unfortunate misfits who was stupid enough to buy a new notebook with a nVidia 8 or 9 series card :-) This is the second thread in a few days that reports problems with nVidia cards. Owning a 3rd generation Macbook Pro (nVidia Geforce 8600M GT) with Gentoo on, I'm a bit worried. I never noticed significant problems on that machine, but I would like to be aware of what's going on. Is there some link explaining what problems there are with such nVidia cards? m.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 11:51:14 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 15 August 2008 10:26:39 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or > > > improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release. > > > > Obviously you are not one of the unfortunate misfits who was stupid > > enough to buy a new notebook with a nVidia 8 or 9 series card :-) > > no, but I owned a 8600GT which works fine with current stable X and > stable/unstable nvidia drivers. > > Why should a prerelease X be needed at all? The 8600GT most certainly does not work fine on anything using 2D. Especially not KDE-4. 12 seconds to render a translucent menu is unacceptable, so I use the a beta X to get improved EXA. It is better than latest release, but the gui system as a whole is now less stable. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 12:49:26 b.n. wrote: > Alan McKinnon ha scritto: > This is the second thread in a few days that reports problems with > nVidia cards. > > Owning a 3rd generation Macbook Pro (nVidia Geforce 8600M GT) with > Gentoo on, I'm a bit worried. I never noticed significant problems on > that machine, but I would like to be aware of what's going on. > > Is there some link explaining what problems there are with such nVidia > cards? > > m. Here you go, all 26 pages of it: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916 Then there's also the issue of the GPU silicon failing in shocking numbers. More details on The Register and Slashdot. Apparently ALL 8 and 9 series GPUs are affected and it's hitting ALL vendors. It's related to the manufacture of those chips and they are failing in alarming numbers under thermal load. It's sad actually. This has a very high potential to sink nVidia completely. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008 11:51:14 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > On Friday 15 August 2008 10:26:39 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > > any reason why you use an unreleased X? There are no new features or > > > > improvements. And KDE works fine with 1.4 release. > > > > > > Obviously you are not one of the unfortunate misfits who was stupid > > > enough to buy a new notebook with a nVidia 8 or 9 series card :-) > > > > no, but I owned a 8600GT which works fine with current stable X and > > stable/unstable nvidia drivers. > > > > Why should a prerelease X be needed at all? > > The 8600GT most certainly does not work fine on anything using 2D. > Especially not KDE-4. > > 12 seconds to render a translucent menu is unacceptable, so I use the a > beta X to get improved EXA. It is better than latest release, but the gui > system as a whole is now less stable. and because of that I sold the 8600GT and bought a HD3870. BUT: nvidia does almost everything in its driver - it replaces most of X functions. So you don't win anything by using an unstable X.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Alan McKinnon ha scritto: On Friday 15 August 2008 12:49:26 b.n. wrote: Alan McKinnon ha scritto: This is the second thread in a few days that reports problems with nVidia cards. Owning a 3rd generation Macbook Pro (nVidia Geforce 8600M GT) with Gentoo on, I'm a bit worried. I never noticed significant problems on that machine, but I would like to be aware of what's going on. Is there some link explaining what problems there are with such nVidia cards? m. Here you go, all 26 pages of it: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916 Then there's also the issue of the GPU silicon failing in shocking numbers. More details on The Register and Slashdot. Apparently ALL 8 and 9 series GPUs are affected and it's hitting ALL vendors. It's related to the manufacture of those chips and they are failing in alarming numbers under thermal load. It's sad actually. This has a very high potential to sink nVidia completely. Oh s**t. Thank you. Go figure I bought that MBP last year also because of its nVidia card... :( m.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008 12:49:26 b.n. wrote: > > Alan McKinnon ha scritto: > > > > This is the second thread in a few days that reports problems with > > nVidia cards. > > > > Owning a 3rd generation Macbook Pro (nVidia Geforce 8600M GT) with > > Gentoo on, I'm a bit worried. I never noticed significant problems on > > that machine, but I would like to be aware of what's going on. > > > > Is there some link explaining what problems there are with such nVidia > > cards? > > > > m. > > Here you go, all 26 pages of it: > > http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916 > > Then there's also the issue of the GPU silicon failing in shocking numbers. > More details on The Register and Slashdot. Apparently ALL 8 and 9 series > GPUs are affected and it's hitting ALL vendors. It's related to the > manufacture of those chips and they are failing in alarming numbers under > thermal load. > > It's sad actually. This has a very high potential to sink nVidia > completely. the inquirer has a long article series about the failing gpu problem. In short: all 8XXX chips are bad. Because of the thermal environment laptops are on a different place of the bell curve than desktops. Laptops with nvidia graphic are failing left and right. Whole series of HP, Dell, Asus, laptops are walking ghosts. Desktops might be in the mess soon too. http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/13/nvidia-posts-121- million-loss http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92s-g94- reportedly http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/31/hp-pays-half-nvidia- problems http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/07/nvidia-meltdown-blame- game http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/27/dell-models-defective- nvidia that their drivers for the 8XXX and 9XXX series suck (on win and lin) is only one of their problems.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 14:19:14 b.n. wrote: > Oh s**t. Thank you. Go figure I bought that MBP last year also because > of its nVidia card... I feel your pain, I'm in exactly the same position. I specifically bought this laptop because of the nVidia card and my bad experiences with ATI binary drivers in the past. Guess I should have done a little more up-to-date research... -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 14:14:16 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > that their drivers for the 8XXX and 9XXX series suck (on win and lin) is > only one of their problems. I wasn't aware that there was a problem with the windows drivers. I thought the suckiness on linux came mostly from the X architecture together with nVidia's approach of window rendering done inhardware and redirected resizes done in software - the opposite approach to most other driver authors. Turns out that composite resizing is done a whole lot more often than was beleived. Plus, the X architecture is not conducive to the hardware calculations always being done in hardware, resulting in frequent fallbacks to software methods, which slows down the content rendering - the very thing that was supposed to be blazingly fast. Oddly enough, 3D is very very snappy. It's the 2D stuff that cripples the performance, and on a desktop, 2D is exactly what you want. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Oddly enough, 3D is very very snappy. It's the 2D stuff that cripples the > performance, and on a desktop, 2D is exactly what you want. AFAIK the problem is that the 8XXX series doesn't really have 2d hardware anymore - everything is done in the 3d part - and the drivers to support that are harder to write than anticipated.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> Oddly enough, 3D is very very snappy. It's the 2D stuff that cripples the >> performance, and on a desktop, 2D is exactly what you want. > > AFAIK the problem is that the 8XXX series doesn't really have 2d hardware > anymore - everything is done in the 3d part - and the drivers to support that > are harder to write than anticipated. > I'm running two boxes, gentoo (~x86 OC-3GHz Q9300) and a kubuntu (0804 Q6600), each with 8600GTS and KDE 3.5.9. Desktop performance (3840x1200 and 1920x1200) is fine. I'm hoping that KDE4.x doesn't hit ~x86 until the nvidia drivers are fixed, otherwise I'll be in the market for new GPUs. Also I recently replaced a blown eVGA 7600GT (5 caps popped) in my LinuxMCE system with a 9800GT. This system mainly uses libxine for playing ripped DVDs with upscaling to 1080p. So far (only viewed 3 movies) performance is looking good.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Volker Armin Hemmann ha scritto: In short: all 8XXX chips are bad. Because of the thermal environment laptops are on a different place of the bell curve than desktops. Laptops with nvidia graphic are failing left and right. Whole series of HP, Dell, Asus, laptops are walking ghosts. Desktops might be in the mess soon too. Just to know: what to do when your laptop graphic card fries? I don't think I can just take it out of a socket and change it. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Samstag, 16. August 2008, b.n. wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann ha scritto: > > In short: all 8XXX chips are bad. Because of the thermal environment > > laptops are on a different place of the bell curve than desktops. Laptops > > with nvidia graphic are failing left and right. Whole series of HP, Dell, > > Asus, laptops are walking ghosts. Desktops might be in the mess soon too. > > Just to know: what to do when your laptop graphic card fries? I don't > think I can just take it out of a socket and change it. > > m. if you are lucky, Dell or Hp or whoever replaces the Mobo or the whole laptop (lucky = in the warranty period) if you are not lucky you are screwed. Maybe it is time for a big, fat lawsuit.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Friday 15 August 2008 15:41:04 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Oddly enough, 3D is very very snappy. It's the 2D stuff that cripples the > > performance, and on a desktop, 2D is exactly what you want. > > AFAIK the problem is that the 8XXX series doesn't really have 2d hardware > anymore - everything is done in the 3d part - and the drivers to support > that are harder to write than anticipated. Sorry for the delayed reply. nvnews was unreachable for me all yesterday afternoon. This post is straight from the horses mouth, from Aaron Platter. He's the nvidia driver author: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1704502&postcount=17 "Compiz window resizing is slow for a number of reasons mostly related to the inefficient way that the X server resizes redirected windows. Performance should be significantly better with InitialPixmapPlacement=2, except that most window decorators use currently- unaccelerated convolution filters for their shadows, bogging it down. Please try solid resizing with IPP=2 and the window decorator disabled, to see how much of an effect it has. Improving the performance of convolution filters and redirected window resizing in general is something we're working on for future driver releases. "Also, you should see a significant improvement in redirected window resizing performance with IPP=1 if you use one of the xserver 1.5 prereleases." -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Saturday 16 August 2008 03:57:42 b.n. wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann ha scritto: > > In short: all 8XXX chips are bad. Because of the thermal environment > > laptops are on a different place of the bell curve than desktops. Laptops > > with nvidia graphic are failing left and right. Whole series of HP, Dell, > > Asus, laptops are walking ghosts. Desktops might be in the mess soon too. > > Just to know: what to do when your laptop graphic card fries? I don't > think I can just take it out of a socket and change it. Correct. You have a few options, none good: 1. Replace the motherboard 2. Lean on the dealer to replace the laptop with a different model using a non-nvidia card 3. Take it in the shorts -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Samstag, 16. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008 15:41:04 Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Freitag, 15. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > Oddly enough, 3D is very very snappy. It's the 2D > > stuff that cripples the > > > > performance, and on a desktop, 2D is exactly what > > you want. > > > AFAIK the problem is that the 8XXX series doesn't > > really have 2d hardware > > > anymore - everything is done in the 3d part - and the > > drivers to support > > > that are harder to write than anticipated. > > Sorry for the delayed reply. nvnews was unreachable for > me all yesterday afternoon. This post is straight from > the horses mouth, from Aaron Platter. He's the nvidia > driver author: > > http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1704502&postcount=17 > > "Compiz window resizing is slow for a number of reasons > mostly related to the inefficient way that the X server > resizes redirected windows. Performance should be > significantly better with InitialPixmapPlacement=2, > except that most window decorators use currently- > unaccelerated convolution filters for their shadows, > bogging it down. Please try solid resizing with IPP=2 > and the window decorator disabled, to see how much of an > effect it has. Improving the performance of convolution > filters and redirected window resizing in general is > something we're working on for future driver releases. > > "Also, you should see a significant improvement in > redirected window resizing performance with IPP=1 if you > use one of the xserver 1.5 prereleases." I don't use compiz ;) and people have reported slowdowns even with kde3.5.9 - with 4.1 it is just much severe. And when I say 'severe' I talk about lagging for several seconds between 'key pressed' and 'sign appears on screen'. Or 'mouse button pressed' and 'desktop menu appears' and even more seconds between 'menu appears' and 'menu reacts to input'. Yes, all that IPP and glyphcatch stuff helped a bit. But they made user stuff slower. So at the end zero or very small actual improvements.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I don't use compiz ;) and people have reported slowdowns even with kde3.5.9 - with 4.1 it is just much severe. And when I say 'severe' I talk about lagging for several seconds between 'key pressed' and 'sign appears on screen'. Or 'mouse button pressed' and 'desktop menu appears' and even more seconds between 'menu appears' and 'menu reacts to input'. Yes, all that IPP and glyphcatch stuff helped a bit. But they made user stuff slower. So at the end zero or very small actual improvements. I use 3.5.9 and with a newer kernel, I get the same slowdowns. Could this me something to do with the kernel? I'm using 2.6.23 but the 2.6.25 kernel does this slow thing. It started in 2.6.24 range. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Saturday 16 August 2008 23:40:21 Dale wrote: > I use 3.5.9 and with a newer kernel, I get the same slowdowns. Could > this me something to do with the kernel? I'm using 2.6.23 but the > 2.6.25 kernel does this slow thing. It started in 2.6.24 range. what video card do you have? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 16 August 2008 23:40:21 Dale wrote: I use 3.5.9 and with a newer kernel, I get the same slowdowns. Could this me something to do with the kernel? I'm using 2.6.23 but the 2.6.25 kernel does this slow thing. It started in 2.6.24 range. what video card do you have? I have a Nvidia FX-5200 but still the same things are happening. Just thought it would be worth a mention. KDE is basically unusable to me when in the newer kernel. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
On Sonntag, 17. August 2008, Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Saturday 16 August 2008 23:40:21 Dale wrote: > >> I use 3.5.9 and with a newer kernel, I get the same > > > > slowdowns. Could > > > >> this me something to do with the kernel? I'm using > > > > 2.6.23 but the > > > >> 2.6.25 kernel does this slow thing. It started in > > > > 2.6.24 range. > > > > what video card do you have? > > I have a Nvidia FX-5200 but still the same things are happening. Just > thought it would be worth a mention. KDE is basically unusable to me > when in the newer kernel. > > Dale > > :-) :-) more likely that you enabled something 'stupid' in your kernel.
Re: [gentoo-user] kwin-4.1 sometimes leaves konsole undecorated
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sonntag, 17. August 2008, Dale wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 16 August 2008 23:40:21 Dale wrote: I use 3.5.9 and with a newer kernel, I get the same slowdowns. Could this me something to do with the kernel? I'm using 2.6.23 but the 2.6.25 kernel does this slow thing. It started in 2.6.24 range. what video card do you have? I have a Nvidia FX-5200 but still the same things are happening. Just thought it would be worth a mention. KDE is basically unusable to me when in the newer kernel. Dale :-) :-) more likely that you enabled something 'stupid' in your kernel. Well, I configured it just like the old one. I tried oldconfig and comparing them side by side, using Konsole and tabs, and they are identical except for the new crap which I disabled. I think something got changed with the CPU stuff. It's not using the drives but the CPU acts "funny". Oh well, I'll just use my old one. Dale :-) :-)
