[geo] RE: X ray cloud seeding?
Hello Andrew, The conditions inside a Wilson cloud chamber are very different from in the atmosphere.The supersaturations are immense, because all natural CCN have been removed.Only then can Xrays initiate droplets. These conditions dont exist in nature. What is most needed for natural cloud formation is an unstable temperature structure and a mechanism for inducing sustained upward motion of moist air.There are virtually always CCN available, on which droplets will form. Artificial cloud production is essentially a non-starter in my view. What can be done is to increase the CCN and therefore droplet number concentration and cloud albedo in existing clouds. . This is the principle of cloud brightening. Not creating clouds, but brightening existing ones! All Best, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham From: Andrew Lockley [andrew.lock...@gmail.com] Sent: 07 December 2012 03:35 To: Stephen Salter; John Latham; Alan Gadain; geoengineering Subject: X ray cloud seeding? Cloud chambers detect ionising radiation because the ions act as cloud condensation nuclei. Could high energy and intense x-rays be used to trigger cloud formation in the marine boundary layer? This might also work for drying the upper troposphere - by triggered nucleation and subsequent rain out, using low intensity, high energy x rays. A -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
[geo] Climate Change: A global challenge on the sidelines
http://www.groundreport.com/Health_and_Science/Climate-Change-A-global-challenge-on-the-sidelines/2949845 The United Nations annual climate change conference is ongoing in Doha, Qatar, hosting about 200 nations, seeking paths for a sustainable environmental future. The conference, known as COP18/CMP8, is driving at the target of last year’s COP17 meeting in South Africa, which is to have a deal to mitigate -- cut and cap -- emissions by all nations by 2015, and have it come to effect by 2020. Global warming, we can say had a big year, first with a sustainable conference that hosted world leaders in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil, and series of extreme weather events that thoughts linked to it. Global warming is a known climate challenge and there have been ways and paths that have been identified to taper it. Some of the solutions are complicated given our dependence on fossil fuels and relatively fetus and expensive alternatives. Skepticism and clear links of the magnitude of weather events to it, contributes to the usual flutter associated with the subject. Citizens are pressuring leaders to act on pressing issues –- jobs, taxes, housing, security, mortgages, debts -– in this recovery times, while climate change is somewhere behind. Certain governments are taking decisions, and certain groups are doing campaigns for awareness and need for action. Some results are seen, and hope is knit with chance that the average temperature of the earth will not rise to an irreversible level in the coming years –- to cause disasters. The attention has made climate change a celebrity, not needing introduction at many international and national gatherings; but it is a present-day global challenge –- on the sidelines. How will climate change move to the fore, given the risks it carries? How will efforts and understanding converge towards mitigation of greenhouse emissions? How will the world balance its economic needs and push for climate safety? Who knows if mitigation should be precedent, that, we will in future wish we prioritized? Who knows? The complications of our dependence on fossil fuels and premature alternatives make progress and answers difficult -- leaving climate change on the sidelines. The “more important” global economic recovery is still on the edge, albeit it’s the most important concern. If concerted mitigation is added now, the circa 2020 goal of full recovery may be altered and get contorted. Maybe we leave our chances to hope; maybe geoengineering, maybe expectations that there will be surprise economic boom, maybe change in the earth climate cycle to bring cooling, maybe surprise cooperation for action by world’s biggest emitters, maybe a global mitigation deal in 2015 and its coming into effect in 2020 without any events or conditions that will damage it, maybe. The worst should not come, as we are seeing encouraging steps from some places. California has taken the bold step with laws to drive mitigation, the United Kingdom, is upping aid to poor countries for renewable energy and its internal efforts too. The EU is looking at aviation pollution tax, which may become a global move. Australia is also proceeding in energy efficiency in new directions. Climate change is a global challenge on the sidelines, it may remain so in the coming years, but from the sidelines, it is pulling weight that reminds everyone of how it is can damage a completed recovery in a jiffy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
[geo] Professor Sir Bob Watson, in his 2012 AGU Union Lecture opines on geoengineering: we need to do the research.
The 2012 AGU in San Francisco makes many of its presentations available as streaming video on this webpagehttp://fallmeeting.agu.org/2012/scientific-program/video-on-demand-lectures-and-sessions/. Professor Sir Bobdiscussed many aspects of climate change. Specifically, at minute 48:50 or so in the video available herehttp://fallmeeting.agu.org/2012/events/union-frontiers-of-geophysics-lecture-professor-sir-bob-watson-cmg-frs-chief-scientific-adviser-to-defra/, he briefly gave his views on the topic of geoengineering. Geoengineering, whether its solar radiation management or carbon management - my argument on this its a second best. I would argue we should go for a low carbon economy. I'm concerned if we put too many eggs in the basket of geoengineering it will take our mind and our financing off a low carbon economy. But *we need to do the research*. We need to do more theoretical modelling of whether or not you can change radiation balance in the troposphere, stratosphere, or even in outer space, (that one I don't like personally). Or, can we change our - the carbon management whether it's through affecting the uptake into the oceans through seeding (the question is whether it will work) [ *he seemed to run out of gas here, perhaps he was feeling time pressure and skipped over whatever he intended to say about carbon management] * So my argument on geoengineering is: we've screwed up the planet by not understanding the planet. To be honest, its a little bit unwise of us to think we can geoengineer it. However I do believe its a very active area for more research as a potential backup or in the extreme to complement the low carbon economy. Professor Sir Bob introduced his lecture saying a big part of it would be explain why he has answered the question is a 2 degree target feasible with* a great big no*. Even though it is technologically possible, he said, it is not politically feasible now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/geoengineering/-/E-bvoy2M6GkJ. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
Re: [geo] Hurricane weakening via Marine Cloud Brightening MCB
Hi John, Kelly, ad Armand--With respect to hurricane modification, there may be an alternative approach to consider other than cooling the areas where the hurricanes develop. Stu Ostro of The Weather Channel has written a review of this year's hurricane season; see http://www.wunderground.com/blog/stuostro/show.html?entrynum=18 What is interesting is that there is a channel that seems to control the tracks of hurricanes up and into the North Atlantic where the storms hopefully die. So, maybe an approach is to think about altering North Atlantic temperature changes in a way that keeps hurricanes out to sea in the Atlantic. And for Hurricane Sandy, that alters conditions in the Labrador Sea area so that the hurricanes heading up the East Coast of North America don't get trapped along the coast and can be blown out to sea. Now, I know this does not benefit Caribbean island nations and so this is likely not the only approach to be thinking about, but might it be that an alternative approach would be to try to steer hurricanes to areas of the ocean where coastal cities and infrastructure would not be much affected? At least it could be evaluated if this might be easier, at least during some years. Mike MacCracken On 12/7/12 1:41 PM, John Latham john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk wrote: Hello All, Regarding the unfortunately topical issues of hurricane strength and damage, I attach a press release written by our MCB colleague Kelly Wanser, describing our work on the possibility of weakening hurricanes via MCB: and also our recently published paper on the same topic. All Best, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
RE: [geo] Hurricane weakening via Marine Cloud Brightening MCB
Many Thanks, Mike. Interesting! Should certainly be looked in to. All Best, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham From: Mike MacCracken [mmacc...@comcast.net] Sent: 08 December 2012 01:19 To: John Latham; Kelly Wanser; Armand Neukermans Cc: Geoengineering Subject: Re: [geo] Hurricane weakening via Marine Cloud Brightening MCB Hi John, Kelly, ad Armand--With respect to hurricane modification, there may be an alternative approach to consider other than cooling the areas where the hurricanes develop. Stu Ostro of The Weather Channel has written a review of this year's hurricane season; see http://www.wunderground.com/blog/stuostro/show.html?entrynum=18 What is interesting is that there is a channel that seems to control the tracks of hurricanes up and into the North Atlantic where the storms hopefully die. So, maybe an approach is to think about altering North Atlantic temperature changes in a way that keeps hurricanes out to sea in the Atlantic. And for Hurricane Sandy, that alters conditions in the Labrador Sea area so that the hurricanes heading up the East Coast of North America don't get trapped along the coast and can be blown out to sea. Now, I know this does not benefit Caribbean island nations and so this is likely not the only approach to be thinking about, but might it be that an alternative approach would be to try to steer hurricanes to areas of the ocean where coastal cities and infrastructure would not be much affected? At least it could be evaluated if this might be easier, at least during some years. Mike MacCracken On 12/7/12 1:41 PM, John Latham john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk wrote: Hello All, Regarding the unfortunately topical issues of hurricane strength and damage, I attach a press release written by our MCB colleague Kelly Wanser, describing our work on the possibility of weakening hurricanes via MCB: and also our recently published paper on the same topic. All Best, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
