RE: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a geoengineering future

[david.sevier]

Agreed. I was referring to insoluble matter and not soluble matter. Are you 
saying that the soluble organic matter of sea water will lead to ozone 
depletion? I like to see a paper discussion of this (if that is what you are 
saying).

 

From: Adrian Tuck  
Sent: 07 November 2022 15:45
To: david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk
Cc: andrew.lock...@gmail.com; ayesha iqbal ; 
geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Filtering out soluble organics and surfactants will not be a trivial operation.





On 7 Nov 2022, at 08:37, mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > wrote:

 

If you were spraying sea water, it is unlikely that there would be a large 
organic element to it. For practical operation, you would likely pre-filter the 
sea water to control clogging issues. Spray nozzle clogging may seem like a 
trivial issue during design but during actual implementation, it is a much 
larger issue. You will end up filtering to prevent this. 

 

From: Adrian Tuck mailto:adrianft...@gmail.com> > 
Sent: 07 November 2022 15:16
To: david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk <mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> 
Cc: andrew.lock...@gmail.com <mailto:andrew.lock...@gmail.com> ; ayesha iqbal 
mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> >; geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Sea water has a load of organic matter, living and dead. The Hunga-Tunga 
eruption will have injected that way up into the stratosphere, with so far as 
yet unknown and unmodelled consequences. The increase in water vapour has been 
modelled, and is substantial.






On 7 Nov 2022, at 07:57, mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > wrote:

 

You may want to define aerosol particles more specifically. I do not think that 
spraying sea water into the high atmosphere will cause ozone depletion (but 
perhaps there is a paper out there that says it does). 

 

 

David Sevier

 

Carbon Cycle Limited

248 Sutton Common Road

Sutton, Surrey SM3 9PW

England

 

Tel 44 (0) 208 288 0128

www.carbon-cycle.co.uk <http://www.carbon-cycle.co.uk/> 

 

 

 

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> > On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 05 November 2022 23:26
To: ayesha iqbal mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> >
Cc: geoengineering mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Just a note to welcome ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com 
<mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com>  to the list. She's what your money gets 
spent on. We welcome your feedback; the service is for your benefit - not ours. 

 

If you'd like to make a contribution to our costs, use these links for donations

 - Regular http://patreon.com/geoengineering  

 - Single https://gofund.me/da586daa 

 

 

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022, 23:22 ayesha iqbal, mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Poster's note: Old, but new to the list.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/preparing-the-united-states-for-security-and-governance-in-a-geoengineering-future/

By:Joseph Versen <https://www.brookings.edu/author/joseph-versen/> , Zaruhi 
Mnatsakanyan <https://www.brookings.edu/author/zaruhi-mnatsakanyan/> , and 
Johannes Urpelainen <https://www.brookings.edu/experts/johannes-urpelainen/>  

Introduction

Imagine the following scenario: it is the year 2035. One large country, dealing 
with major issues of global warming, decides to take extreme action. The 
government begins secret deployment of a geoengineering system for pumping 
large amounts of reflective particles into the air, a technique designed to 
mimic the cooling effect of a volcanic eruption, only on a much larger scale 
and over a much longer time horizon. Although such behavior has been 
discouraged by the international community, research has continued, largely 
behind closed doors and without real regulation. Now that the climate situation 
has become more dire, the country has decided that it can no longer afford to 
wait; they see geoengineering as their only option.

At first, the decision seems wise, as the increase in global temperatures start 
to level off. But soon other types of anomalous weather begin to appear: 
unexpected and severe droughts hit countries around the world, disrupting 
agriculture, and the ozone layer begins to decay rapidly, exposing populations 
to harmful radiation. Global weather has become politicized—delegates argue at 
the United Nations over new climate complications allegedly caused by 
geoengineering, and diplomatic relationships are strained. This new 
ge

RE: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a geoengineering future

[david.sevier]

If you were spraying sea water, it is unlikely that there would be a large 
organic element to it. For practical operation, you would likely pre-filter the 
sea water to control clogging issues. Spray nozzle clogging may seem like a 
trivial issue during design but during actual implementation, it is a much 
larger issue. You will end up filtering to prevent this. 

 

From: Adrian Tuck  
Sent: 07 November 2022 15:16
To: david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk
Cc: andrew.lock...@gmail.com; ayesha iqbal ; 
geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Sea water has a load of organic matter, living and dead. The Hunga-Tunga 
eruption will have injected that way up into the stratosphere, with so far as 
yet unknown and unmodelled consequences. The increase in water vapour has been 
modelled, and is substantial.





On 7 Nov 2022, at 07:57, mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > mailto:david.sev...@carbon-cycle.co.uk> > wrote:

 

You may want to define aerosol particles more specifically. I do not think that 
spraying sea water into the high atmosphere will cause ozone depletion (but 
perhaps there is a paper out there that says it does). 

 

 

David Sevier

 

Carbon Cycle Limited

248 Sutton Common Road

Sutton, Surrey SM3 9PW

England

 

Tel 44 (0) 208 288 0128

www.carbon-cycle.co.uk <http://www.carbon-cycle.co.uk/> 

 

 

 

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> > On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 05 November 2022 23:26
To: ayesha iqbal mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> >
Cc: geoengineering mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Just a note to welcome ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com 
<mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com>  to the list. She's what your money gets 
spent on. We welcome your feedback; the service is for your benefit - not ours. 

 

If you'd like to make a contribution to our costs, use these links for donations

 - Regular http://patreon.com/geoengineering  

 - Single https://gofund.me/da586daa 

 

 

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022, 23:22 ayesha iqbal, mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Poster's note: Old, but new to the list.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/preparing-the-united-states-for-security-and-governance-in-a-geoengineering-future/

By:Joseph Versen <https://www.brookings.edu/author/joseph-versen/> , Zaruhi 
Mnatsakanyan <https://www.brookings.edu/author/zaruhi-mnatsakanyan/> , and 
Johannes Urpelainen <https://www.brookings.edu/experts/johannes-urpelainen/>  

Introduction

Imagine the following scenario: it is the year 2035. One large country, dealing 
with major issues of global warming, decides to take extreme action. The 
government begins secret deployment of a geoengineering system for pumping 
large amounts of reflective particles into the air, a technique designed to 
mimic the cooling effect of a volcanic eruption, only on a much larger scale 
and over a much longer time horizon. Although such behavior has been 
discouraged by the international community, research has continued, largely 
behind closed doors and without real regulation. Now that the climate situation 
has become more dire, the country has decided that it can no longer afford to 
wait; they see geoengineering as their only option.

At first, the decision seems wise, as the increase in global temperatures start 
to level off. But soon other types of anomalous weather begin to appear: 
unexpected and severe droughts hit countries around the world, disrupting 
agriculture, and the ozone layer begins to decay rapidly, exposing populations 
to harmful radiation. Global weather has become politicized—delegates argue at 
the United Nations over new climate complications allegedly caused by 
geoengineering, and diplomatic relationships are strained. This new 
geoengineering crisis escalates when another large country, under the 
impression it has been severely harmed by the geoengineering, carries out a 
focused military strike against the geoengineering equipment, a decision 
supported by other nations who also believe they have been negatively impacted. 
This development, however, becomes even more devastating, as once the 
geoengineering stops, global temperatures dramatically rebound to the levels 
they would have reached on their previous trajectory, prior to the use of 
geoengineering. The resulting consequences of such a dramatic increase in 
temperatures are disastrous.

A scenario such as the one above remains unfortunately possible given the 
current state of global geoengineering policy. As the increasingly severe 
effects of global warming generate greater interest in geoengineering 
technologies, the United States must prepare itself for the risks and 
uncert

RE: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a geoengineering future

[david.sevier]

You may want to define aerosol particles more specifically. I do not think that 
spraying sea water into the high atmosphere will cause ozone depletion (but 
perhaps there is a paper out there that says it does). 

 

 

David Sevier

 

Carbon Cycle Limited

248 Sutton Common Road

Sutton, Surrey SM3 9PW

England

 

Tel 44 (0) 208 288 0128

www.carbon-cycle.co.uk

 

 

 

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 05 November 2022 23:26
To: ayesha iqbal 
Cc: geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a 
geoengineering future

 

Just a note to welcome ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com 
<mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com>  to the list. She's what your money gets 
spent on. We welcome your feedback; the service is for your benefit - not ours. 

 

If you'd like to make a contribution to our costs, use these links for donations

 - Regular http://patreon.com/geoengineering  

 - Single https://gofund.me/da586daa 

 

 

On Sat, 5 Nov 2022, 23:22 ayesha iqbal, mailto:ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Poster's note: Old, but new to the list.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/preparing-the-united-states-for-security-and-governance-in-a-geoengineering-future/

By:Joseph Versen <https://www.brookings.edu/author/joseph-versen/> , Zaruhi 
Mnatsakanyan <https://www.brookings.edu/author/zaruhi-mnatsakanyan/> , and 
Johannes Urpelainen <https://www.brookings.edu/experts/johannes-urpelainen/>  

Introduction

Imagine the following scenario: it is the year 2035. One large country, dealing 
with major issues of global warming, decides to take extreme action. The 
government begins secret deployment of a geoengineering system for pumping 
large amounts of reflective particles into the air, a technique designed to 
mimic the cooling effect of a volcanic eruption, only on a much larger scale 
and over a much longer time horizon. Although such behavior has been 
discouraged by the international community, research has continued, largely 
behind closed doors and without real regulation. Now that the climate situation 
has become more dire, the country has decided that it can no longer afford to 
wait; they see geoengineering as their only option.

At first, the decision seems wise, as the increase in global temperatures start 
to level off. But soon other types of anomalous weather begin to appear: 
unexpected and severe droughts hit countries around the world, disrupting 
agriculture, and the ozone layer begins to decay rapidly, exposing populations 
to harmful radiation. Global weather has become politicized—delegates argue at 
the United Nations over new climate complications allegedly caused by 
geoengineering, and diplomatic relationships are strained. This new 
geoengineering crisis escalates when another large country, under the 
impression it has been severely harmed by the geoengineering, carries out a 
focused military strike against the geoengineering equipment, a decision 
supported by other nations who also believe they have been negatively impacted. 
This development, however, becomes even more devastating, as once the 
geoengineering stops, global temperatures dramatically rebound to the levels 
they would have reached on their previous trajectory, prior to the use of 
geoengineering. The resulting consequences of such a dramatic increase in 
temperatures are disastrous.

A scenario such as the one above remains unfortunately possible given the 
current state of global geoengineering policy. As the increasingly severe 
effects of global warming generate greater interest in geoengineering 
technologies, the United States must prepare itself for the risks and 
uncertainties that come along with their potential deployment. Preparedness for 
such a world will likely be multi-faceted and will likely include improved 
understanding of how the global climate will change both with or without 
geoengineering, the ability to detect and monitor geoengineering activity 
worldwide, an adequate policy roadmap for deterring certain kinds of 
geoengineering activity and for responding in case of geoengineering deployment 
by other nations, among other measures.

The U.S. should also make a concerted effort to foster the development of an 
international governance regime for geoengineering. In the short term, that 
will involve leveraging existing international fora to legitimately debate 
geoengineering issues on the international stage while also championing a 
comprehensive code of conduct for geoengineering research worldwide. In the 
long run, the U.S. should take the lead on creating a geoengineering-specific 
international body, one with the appropriate scope and flexibility to deal with 
the myriad challenges involved while also promoting wide participation.

 

II. GEOENGINEERING OVERVIEW AND SECURITY CONCERNS

We have already begun to see the effects of man-made climate change around the 
world. A

Re: [geo] Preparing the United States for security and governance in a geoengineering future

[Andrew Lockley]

Just a note to welcome ayeshaiqbal...@gmail.com to the list. She's what
your money gets spent on. We welcome your feedback; the service is for your
benefit - not ours.

If you'd like to make a contribution to our costs, use these links for
donations
 - Regular http://patreon.com/geoengineering
 - Single https://gofund.me/da586daa


On Sat, 5 Nov 2022, 23:22 ayesha iqbal,  wrote:

> Poster's note: Old, but new to the list.
>
>
> https://www.brookings.edu/research/preparing-the-united-states-for-security-and-governance-in-a-geoengineering-future/
>
> By:Joseph Versen , Zaruhi
> Mnatsakanyan , and 
> Johannes
> Urpelainen 
>
> Introduction
>
> Imagine the following scenario: it is the year 2035. One large country,
> dealing with major issues of global warming, decides to take extreme
> action. The government begins secret deployment of a geoengineering system
> for pumping large amounts of reflective particles into the air, a technique
> designed to mimic the cooling effect of a volcanic eruption, only on a much
> larger scale and over a much longer time horizon. Although such behavior
> has been discouraged by the international community, research has
> continued, largely behind closed doors and without real regulation. Now
> that the climate situation has become more dire, the country has decided
> that it can no longer afford to wait; they see geoengineering as their only
> option.
>
> At first, the decision seems wise, as the increase in global temperatures
> start to level off. But soon other types of anomalous weather begin to
> appear: unexpected and severe droughts hit countries around the world,
> disrupting agriculture, and the ozone layer begins to decay rapidly,
> exposing populations to harmful radiation. Global weather has become
> politicized—delegates argue at the United Nations over new climate
> complications allegedly caused by geoengineering, and diplomatic
> relationships are strained. This new geoengineering crisis escalates when
> another large country, under the impression it has been severely harmed by
> the geoengineering, carries out a focused military strike against the
> geoengineering equipment, a decision supported by other nations who also
> believe they have been negatively impacted. This development, however,
> becomes even more devastating, as once the geoengineering stops, global
> temperatures dramatically rebound to the levels they would have reached on
> their previous trajectory, prior to the use of geoengineering. The
> resulting consequences of such a dramatic increase in temperatures are
> disastrous.
>
> A scenario such as the one above remains unfortunately possible given the
> current state of global geoengineering policy. As the increasingly severe
> effects of global warming generate greater interest in geoengineering
> technologies, the United States must prepare itself for the risks and
> uncertainties that come along with their potential deployment. Preparedness
> for such a world will likely be multi-faceted and will likely include
> improved understanding of how the global climate will change both with or
> without geoengineering, the ability to detect and monitor geoengineering
> activity worldwide, an adequate policy roadmap for deterring certain kinds
> of geoengineering activity and for responding in case of geoengineering
> deployment by other nations, among other measures.
>
> The U.S. should also make a concerted effort to foster the development of
> an international governance regime for geoengineering. In the short term,
> that will involve leveraging existing international fora to legitimately
> debate geoengineering issues on the international stage while also
> championing a comprehensive code of conduct for geoengineering research
> worldwide. In the long run, the U.S. should take the lead on creating a
> geoengineering-specific international body, one with the appropriate scope
> and flexibility to deal with the myriad challenges involved while also
> promoting wide participation.
>
>
> II. GEOENGINEERING OVERVIEW AND SECURITY CONCERNS
>
> We have already begun to see the effects of man-made climate change around
> the world. As average temperatures climb, droughts become more frequent,
> storms become more destructive, and sea levels rise, among other harmful
> effects. The international community has made emissions mitigation its goal
> to prevent catastrophic levels of climate change, but as nations habitually
> fall short of targets deemed necessary by climate scientists, the risk of
> climate emergency heightens.
>
> As a result, conversations around geoengineering have become more
> frequent. Defined as “the deliberate large-scale manipulation of an
> environmental process that affects the earth’s climate in an attempt to
> counteract global warming,” geoengineering can broadly be